0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Quote from: Akado on April 22, 2016, 08:39:16 pmQuote from: xeroc on November 06, 2015, 04:04:51 pmAnd I just made contact with the CEO of marginsoftware.com. They are VERY interested in BitShares in general and intend to implement BitShares aswell! They say great potentialDid this result in something?yes try the link yourself and see.
Quote from: xeroc on November 06, 2015, 04:04:51 pmAnd I just made contact with the CEO of marginsoftware.com. They are VERY interested in BitShares in general and intend to implement BitShares aswell! They say great potentialDid this result in something?
And I just made contact with the CEO of marginsoftware.com. They are VERY interested in BitShares in general and intend to implement BitShares aswell! They say great potential
Quote from: Akado on March 06, 2016, 02:03:21 pmWould it make sense to integrate this in BitShares and pay via worker proposal or do you think this should be something a 3rd party service should add themselves in order to have advantage over the competition?Doing it for BitShares might be faster and attract more peopleHaving a 3rd party doing it saves shareholders money but we dont know if we are ever going to have someone implement thisAny idea on how much this would cost? @monstererI'm unsure what the trading fee's are now since the recent changes. I thought the only way to make this work would be to use the referral program. Now that fees are so low it seems extremely difficult to make a profit.I'm guessing by the time we purchase the license and do all the programming to integrate MT4 it would be 150-200k.A profitable way to do MT4 would be for a 3rd party to offer the platform and be the counterparty for their clients trades (90% of retail forex traders lose money) and widen the spread slightly higher than what DEX actually is a pocket the spread. If a client takes on a large enough position, the broker could then hedge using the actual DEX and passing the order there instead of being the sole counterparty. This approach would be very profitable for the broker, but only minimally beneficial for the BTS ecosystem.Thats why it would be great if the referral program could be used as the profit generator instead of spread manipulation. All the trading could be done directly with the DEX instead of the broker.
Would it make sense to integrate this in BitShares and pay via worker proposal or do you think this should be something a 3rd party service should add themselves in order to have advantage over the competition?Doing it for BitShares might be faster and attract more peopleHaving a 3rd party doing it saves shareholders money but we dont know if we are ever going to have someone implement thisAny idea on how much this would cost? @monsterer
I can assure you forex, stock, option, futures traders do take fee's seriously... but only if the fee's are exorbant.They will not care if a fee is 1 cent or $1. What they will care about is when they see they could execute a $100,000 trade on ETrade and pay $7 in commissions, but then try to do that same trade in bitshares and pay $100. Then imagine if people start using leverage with bond market... multiply their costs by 10.If you are going to do the %based fee's, there needs to be a ceiling involved. My back of the napkin sweetspot would be %based fee's up to $20... $20 is half the price that many ECN brokers charge to do larger forex orders.
Quote from: xeroc on November 06, 2015, 04:04:51 pmAnd I just made contact with the CEO of marginsoftware.com. They are VERY interested in BitShares in general and intend to implement BitShares aswell! They say great potential nice one .. but guess you mean www.marginsoftware.de, right?.com is redirecting to a DPS
QuoteIt would also need to be packaged up with a nice installer etcagreed will working on this ASAP! It's on my to do list ..
It would also need to be packaged up with a nice installer etc
Quote from: Pheonike on February 06, 2016, 08:23:22 pmQuote from: lil_jay890 on February 06, 2016, 06:25:21 pmQuote from: TravelsAsia on February 06, 2016, 06:13:50 pmAny updates on the progress?I don't think much has been done since the last post... I've been trying to drum up some interest again though.The BTS community is stuck on this thought that fee's are the problem with adoption and market cap growth. The fee's aren't the problem, the interface is. I'm hoping that the blocktrades worker proposal can be redirected to creating an metatrader plugin. They seem like the most able candidate to integrate bts and mt4. I would even advocate doubling their pay to get this done if that's what it takes.The Chinese bts community is stuck on fees.They also complain about UI. However most of them have never used MT4 (even BM hasn't).
Quote from: lil_jay890 on February 06, 2016, 06:25:21 pmQuote from: TravelsAsia on February 06, 2016, 06:13:50 pmAny updates on the progress?I don't think much has been done since the last post... I've been trying to drum up some interest again though.The BTS community is stuck on this thought that fee's are the problem with adoption and market cap growth. The fee's aren't the problem, the interface is. I'm hoping that the blocktrades worker proposal can be redirected to creating an metatrader plugin. They seem like the most able candidate to integrate bts and mt4. I would even advocate doubling their pay to get this done if that's what it takes.The Chinese bts community is stuck on fees.
Quote from: TravelsAsia on February 06, 2016, 06:13:50 pmAny updates on the progress?I don't think much has been done since the last post... I've been trying to drum up some interest again though.The BTS community is stuck on this thought that fee's are the problem with adoption and market cap growth. The fee's aren't the problem, the interface is. I'm hoping that the blocktrades worker proposal can be redirected to creating an metatrader plugin. They seem like the most able candidate to integrate bts and mt4. I would even advocate doubling their pay to get this done if that's what it takes.
Any updates on the progress?
Quote from: jsidhu on February 07, 2016, 08:49:29 amQuote from: abit on February 07, 2016, 08:23:26 amQuote from: Pheonike on February 06, 2016, 08:23:22 pmQuote from: lil_jay890 on February 06, 2016, 06:25:21 pmQuote from: TravelsAsia on February 06, 2016, 06:13:50 pmAny updates on the progress?I don't think much has been done since the last post... I've been trying to drum up some interest again though.The BTS community is stuck on this thought that fee's are the problem with adoption and market cap growth. The fee's aren't the problem, the interface is. I'm hoping that the blocktrades worker proposal can be redirected to creating an metatrader plugin. They seem like the most able candidate to integrate bts and mt4. I would even advocate doubling their pay to get this done if that's what it takes.The Chinese bts community is stuck on fees.They also complain about UI. However most of them have never used MT4 (even BM hasn't).Its used worldwide, bm isnt a trader so he doesnt knowThis is why cnx hasn't put this high on their priority list. They are not traders and they don't see the low hanging fruit right in front of their faces.Mt4 is the most popular trading platform in the world. Saying china doesn't use mt4 is another sweeping generalization that Chinese forum members seem to use all to often. There may be a cheaper option, but none will instantly open the door to millions of traders like an mt4 plugin and license would.
Quote from: abit on February 07, 2016, 08:23:26 amQuote from: Pheonike on February 06, 2016, 08:23:22 pmQuote from: lil_jay890 on February 06, 2016, 06:25:21 pmQuote from: TravelsAsia on February 06, 2016, 06:13:50 pmAny updates on the progress?I don't think much has been done since the last post... I've been trying to drum up some interest again though.The BTS community is stuck on this thought that fee's are the problem with adoption and market cap growth. The fee's aren't the problem, the interface is. I'm hoping that the blocktrades worker proposal can be redirected to creating an metatrader plugin. They seem like the most able candidate to integrate bts and mt4. I would even advocate doubling their pay to get this done if that's what it takes.The Chinese bts community is stuck on fees.They also complain about UI. However most of them have never used MT4 (even BM hasn't).Its used worldwide, bm isnt a trader so he doesnt know
Metatrader4 is the defacto forex consumer trading platform http://www.metatrader4.com/enThe key feature of MT4 is the ability to buy, create and run your own trading bots - this is a massive source of liquidity and trading volume and there are vast libraries of such bots available on the metatrader marketplace https://www.mql5.com/en/market/mt4There has been some discussion about how to integrate metatrader 4 with bitshares, and I have good experience of both platforms so I know what it will take. I've created this thread to open the discussion about how this might be achieved.There are a few things to know about MT4 first:1. This is a margin trading platform. You go long/short with your base currency as collateral in your desired market, and you always close your order with one of the opposite type, so if you buy, you must sell to close your position. This means you always end up back in the same currency you started out with.2. There is typically leverage available, the amount varies depending on your broker3. I *think* the available markets are hard coded into the platform, so you have to offer markets like EUR/USD, JPY/USD etc4. The is no orderbook available to traders (this is a big negative point)5. The spreads are typically denoted in Pips, which are fractions of a dollar (this is a bit of a sticking point for integration)6. The metatrader 4 client side app communicates with the broker via a custom protocol - there would need to be a bitshares bridge server7. Placing and cancelling limit orders is free8. There are order types bitshares doesn't support right now, buy stop and sell stop which are resting orders which do not activate until the price reaches them (opposite way to regular limit orders) 9. Metatrader the corporation would almost certainly be opposed to this integration, so this would need to be done with no central point of failure in terms of legal ramificationsI propose something radical to address point 7, which is a huge point for existing MT4 users who would never accept having to pay for that: require a Proof of Work for placement and cancel orders, but have 0 transaction fee. That would prevent spam while costing no currency.Point 8 could easily be addressed by adding these order types into the DEX.In summary, I think it would be possible to integrate IF bitshares supported margin trading in a compatible way.Cheers, Paul.
Quote from: svk on November 10, 2015, 07:29:20 am...Since we don't have the resources to build something like that, we need to make it easy for third parties to interface with the api and hook up their systems.At the very least the api should be made as friendly as possible for people wanting to write bots..^--- This
...Since we don't have the resources to build something like that, we need to make it easy for third parties to interface with the api and hook up their systems.At the very least the api should be made as friendly as possible for people wanting to write bots..
Quote from: jsidhu on November 10, 2015, 03:18:34 amQuote from: monsterer on November 09, 2015, 04:02:03 pmQuote from: jsidhu on November 09, 2015, 03:33:45 pmTo me it makes so much sense and is not very hard.. The api integration shouldnt be too bad, the risk reward is massive and to me makes sense to go for it for bts team.. But i dont think they will understand like us ever since they domt have time to go use it for a few weeks to judge themselves.To be fair it IS hard to do: You have to decode their proprietary protocol, create a bridge server into the bitshares wallet, have the core bitshares team add the missing order types and then somehow get metatrader the company to be ok with the idea.edit: the rewards would be huge, though.Its not trivial if i made it sound like that but its alot easier problem then the ones they have already solved in crypto. I think there are also examples of bridges already done that perhaps somehow can be shared or metatrader can shed light on. Its api work ontop of a few commands.. And since its a standardized api it makes sense to figure out and integrate into a real trading engine instead of guessing what type of trading the world wants.Agree... We know what traders want and what they use, let's not try to reinvent the wheel.What I don't get about this forum is how people say we should ask traders what they want and emulate that. We (me since I have been trading currencies for 9 years and trade with a large group of people, also I assume jsidhu is a trader) tell them exactly what they need to do to attract traders... Then the non traders here read it and say "nah that's to complicated. Let's make it like polo. That's what traders will want!".It's like I'm talking to a wall... Why do u guys ask for opinions, when you have no intention of utilizing them? We are never going to reach total consensus on a interface, so just provide the tools to 3rd parties so they can create their own.
Quote from: monsterer on November 09, 2015, 04:02:03 pmQuote from: jsidhu on November 09, 2015, 03:33:45 pmTo me it makes so much sense and is not very hard.. The api integration shouldnt be too bad, the risk reward is massive and to me makes sense to go for it for bts team.. But i dont think they will understand like us ever since they domt have time to go use it for a few weeks to judge themselves.To be fair it IS hard to do: You have to decode their proprietary protocol, create a bridge server into the bitshares wallet, have the core bitshares team add the missing order types and then somehow get metatrader the company to be ok with the idea.edit: the rewards would be huge, though.Its not trivial if i made it sound like that but its alot easier problem then the ones they have already solved in crypto. I think there are also examples of bridges already done that perhaps somehow can be shared or metatrader can shed light on. Its api work ontop of a few commands.. And since its a standardized api it makes sense to figure out and integrate into a real trading engine instead of guessing what type of trading the world wants.
Quote from: jsidhu on November 09, 2015, 03:33:45 pmTo me it makes so much sense and is not very hard.. The api integration shouldnt be too bad, the risk reward is massive and to me makes sense to go for it for bts team.. But i dont think they will understand like us ever since they domt have time to go use it for a few weeks to judge themselves.To be fair it IS hard to do: You have to decode their proprietary protocol, create a bridge server into the bitshares wallet, have the core bitshares team add the missing order types and then somehow get metatrader the company to be ok with the idea.edit: the rewards would be huge, though.
To me it makes so much sense and is not very hard.. The api integration shouldnt be too bad, the risk reward is massive and to me makes sense to go for it for bts team.. But i dont think they will understand like us ever since they domt have time to go use it for a few weeks to judge themselves.
Quote from: Akado on November 08, 2015, 02:23:32 pmQuote from: monsterer on November 08, 2015, 02:15:39 pmI think the people mentioning other interfaces/sites and GUIs do not understand the importance of the massive community which MT4 has, along with huge library of trading bots. Just think of the liquidity it would bring.What we need to know is what % of current crypto traders use/are familiar with MT4 and see if it's worth it.We are trying to grow the pie... For this reason we need to focus on fx traders. Tapping into just a tiny % of that market will be much more lucrative than catering to crypto primarily. Plus 95% of crypto traders don't have any professional trading experience.
Quote from: monsterer on November 08, 2015, 02:15:39 pmI think the people mentioning other interfaces/sites and GUIs do not understand the importance of the massive community which MT4 has, along with huge library of trading bots. Just think of the liquidity it would bring.What we need to know is what % of current crypto traders use/are familiar with MT4 and see if it's worth it.
I think the people mentioning other interfaces/sites and GUIs do not understand the importance of the massive community which MT4 has, along with huge library of trading bots. Just think of the liquidity it would bring.
Quote from: lil_jay890 on November 08, 2015, 01:44:26 amQuote from: jonnybitcoin on November 08, 2015, 01:10:01 amTo be honest I think this is more than we need right now. I think it would be good to have metatrader 4 in the future but for now we need something quick and simple like poloniex layout. and a chat box is needed. We need crypto liquidty first and then in the future we can go for real fx liquidity with metatrader 4.Valentin Jesse made this mockup which is the direction I think we need to head in.Ok think about it this way... The Dow Jones, S&P, Nasdaq, and Russel don't care about making an intricate GUI... they provide the data that can be accessed by anyone else and they build the platforms around that data. People just dont seem to get it, that UI programming is just as hard as doing the core, its subjective and hard to get right in everyone's eyes. You NEED to leverage proven UI's that work already otherwise you will never get liftoff like you expect (if you aren't the first to market)... and we aren't bitcoin is.You can do all the mockup's you'd like but when it comes time to use it, won't be the same as a flashy promising screenshot.
Quote from: jonnybitcoin on November 08, 2015, 01:10:01 amTo be honest I think this is more than we need right now. I think it would be good to have metatrader 4 in the future but for now we need something quick and simple like poloniex layout. and a chat box is needed. We need crypto liquidty first and then in the future we can go for real fx liquidity with metatrader 4.Valentin Jesse made this mockup which is the direction I think we need to head in.Ok think about it this way... The Dow Jones, S&P, Nasdaq, and Russel don't care about making an intricate GUI... they provide the data that can be accessed by anyone else and they build the platforms around that data.
To be honest I think this is more than we need right now. I think it would be good to have metatrader 4 in the future but for now we need something quick and simple like poloniex layout. and a chat box is needed. We need crypto liquidty first and then in the future we can go for real fx liquidity with metatrader 4.Valentin Jesse made this mockup which is the direction I think we need to head in.
what about cTrader instead metatrader 4http://www.spotware.com/comparison for trading platforms here: http://www.myfxbook.com/reviews/trading-platforms/19,1
Quote from: Akado on November 06, 2015, 07:47:11 pm for reaching out to them. Didn't even know cass was already working on it, wowI'm pretty sure there's been some crossed wires in this thread. Cass appeared to be talking about a different company?
for reaching out to them. Didn't even know cass was already working on it, wow
Quote from: monsterer on November 06, 2015, 03:12:54 pmFor this to be antifragile, the MT4 client would have to connect directly to bitshares wallet that you specify, preferably a locally installed full node. Otherwise the MT4 company would just go after the web wallet site.How much is a license to use Metatrader legitimately? Traders are not going to bother to install a local node.
For this to be antifragile, the MT4 client would have to connect directly to bitshares wallet that you specify, preferably a locally installed full node. Otherwise the MT4 company would just go after the web wallet site.
Quote from: jsidhu on November 06, 2015, 05:06:43 pmThe orders are emulated clientside and only when client triggers order is it sent to server, thus bitshares doesnt need to know about buy sell stops or even stop loss take profit orders.client also handles margin call which depends on leverage also done client sidr.. Although our blockchain has limited leverageNone of that can be true, otherwise your orders would never fill when the client wasn't running, and neither would you be margin called without the client running?
The orders are emulated clientside and only when client triggers order is it sent to server, thus bitshares doesnt need to know about buy sell stops or even stop loss take profit orders.client also handles margin call which depends on leverage also done client sidr.. Although our blockchain has limited leverage
It would be great though if they made the cost 0 and just used the referral program to generate revenue.
Since MT4 is a downloaded program that runs on your computer, would it be best to link it directly with the lite wallet or have it connect to the web wallet at Open Ledger?How would the proof of work output thing work?