0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Quote from: wesphily on January 23, 2015, 03:41:07 amWill the bitshares client ever be able to include personal information required by regulation? If not then it would be nice if somebody wrote software to suppliment the white list feature.you could do this already today .. your account name registered on the blockchain can contain arbitrary json formated data ...Quote(wallet closed) >>> blockchain_get_account xerocName: xeroc.........Public Data:{ "slate_id": 6136676347887220980, "mail_server_endpoint": "127.0.0.1:19999", "mail_servers": [ "xeroc" ]}
Will the bitshares client ever be able to include personal information required by regulation? If not then it would be nice if somebody wrote software to suppliment the white list feature.
(wallet closed) >>> blockchain_get_account xerocName: xeroc.........Public Data:{ "slate_id": 6136676347887220980, "mail_server_endpoint": "127.0.0.1:19999", "mail_servers": [ "xeroc" ]}
Quote from: OldMan on January 22, 2015, 09:19:52 pmI think we should consider finding an accountant or lawyer to run as a delegate specifically to help folks navigate through the process of setting up a bitAsset/bitCompany/bitCorp etc, as well as provide review/advisory services on the compliance of bitAsset listings.The last thing we want is a bunch of honest people getting nailed with securities fraud, or worse, scammers committing fraud and sullying the brand.US/Can centric 'incubator' at first, but as the delegate income grows it is completely conceivable to have a delegate managing an international team of accountants/lawyers/consultants helping business around the globe with bitAssets.Would be fantastic to start building precedent case law and a body of knowledge/experience around bitAsset issuance and interfacing with the 'real' world.Incidentally, bitAssets render Kickstarter and Lighthouse obsolete... folks can now issue shares in their ideas instead of having to pussyfoot around with 'rewards' etc.Everything you just described refers to UIA's, not bitassets.I guess this post suggests that we need to give up on having "bitasset" mean market-pegged asset...
I think we should consider finding an accountant or lawyer to run as a delegate specifically to help folks navigate through the process of setting up a bitAsset/bitCompany/bitCorp etc, as well as provide review/advisory services on the compliance of bitAsset listings.The last thing we want is a bunch of honest people getting nailed with securities fraud, or worse, scammers committing fraud and sullying the brand.US/Can centric 'incubator' at first, but as the delegate income grows it is completely conceivable to have a delegate managing an international team of accountants/lawyers/consultants helping business around the globe with bitAssets.Would be fantastic to start building precedent case law and a body of knowledge/experience around bitAsset issuance and interfacing with the 'real' world.Incidentally, bitAssets render Kickstarter and Lighthouse obsolete... folks can now issue shares in their ideas instead of having to pussyfoot around with 'rewards' etc.
Quote from: wesphily on January 21, 2015, 12:47:22 amI'm highly interested with incorporating bitshares into my REI LLC. Can a developer please acknowledge that you see the questions below? I don't need answers to them right away, but it would be nice to know that you see them so that you can think about them when possible.Is it possible to limit the number of shares that an asset allows? I do not want to open up the LLC to random 1$ investors. They will not receive a good roi, and it would be a nightmare for me to try to keep track of a million 1$ investments.Your company won't be publicly traded anyway. You will be whitelisting keys and so you can make people agree to whatever terms you want. Did you mean to ask, even among people you explicitly whitelist, don't allow them to own less than X number of shares? I don't think that makes sense. Obviously you can limit the number of shares you issue, if that's what you actually meant. Something like 1-5% of companies become $1million dollar companies. Even fewer of those become publicly traded. QuoteEDIT: Can a feature request be made to allow accounts to input all of that information so that they can be "pre-approved" for investments similar to this? Decentralized protection of data that allows you to purchase shares in centralized companies sounds good in my head.You'll need to do this info verification outside of our system on your, at least until someone makes a service to make it easier. You'll probably have a lot of manual processing to do anyway. QuoteAlso, whitelisting: does this mean I could whitelist particular account names so that only they could purchase a share? If so then that would be great since I could gather all the "know your customer" (in this case partner) information needed for the LLC.Yes, that's the point - you can only legally issue shares if you know who the owners are.Remember that bitshares is JUST a database that keeps track of who has what. We can make ownership transfer restricted in the ways that make the thing you are transferring a legally compliant share of your company, in particular restricting ownership to people you approve. Everything else is still completely up to you.
I'm highly interested with incorporating bitshares into my REI LLC. Can a developer please acknowledge that you see the questions below? I don't need answers to them right away, but it would be nice to know that you see them so that you can think about them when possible.Is it possible to limit the number of shares that an asset allows? I do not want to open up the LLC to random 1$ investors. They will not receive a good roi, and it would be a nightmare for me to try to keep track of a million 1$ investments.
EDIT: Can a feature request be made to allow accounts to input all of that information so that they can be "pre-approved" for investments similar to this? Decentralized protection of data that allows you to purchase shares in centralized companies sounds good in my head.
Also, whitelisting: does this mean I could whitelist particular account names so that only they could purchase a share? If so then that would be great since I could gather all the "know your customer" (in this case partner) information needed for the LLC.
Another issue that nobody has brought up yet is that in the US, I believe it's illegal for the owners of a publicly-traded company to be anonymous. This is the issue the whitelisting is trying to get around, I think. But for you as the guy running the company, I think you have to keep paperwork that shows exactly who owns which shares of the company at any given time. If you tried to structure your securities as a debt instrument, this might not apply... but I am not experienced in such things.Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2
What about a REIT that only sold to people not living in the US. That might get you off the SEC's radar.
Quote from: xiahui135 on January 20, 2015, 01:16:30 pmWhat will happen if someone lost his/her token? In real world, you can get back the account will your ID card or other things. it is dangerous to use bitshare because once one's computer is hacked and the shares will be lost and could never get back. Can some give solutions to solve this problem?This is a unique problem to crypto shares. There most likely is not a solution that you would like. I expect that it would mean that you just lost a lot of uninsured money. You could try to use law to find and sue the guilty party, but the chances of that being successful or almost -%.
What will happen if someone lost his/her token? In real world, you can get back the account will your ID card or other things. it is dangerous to use bitshare because once one's computer is hacked and the shares will be lost and could never get back. Can some give solutions to solve this problem?
Bitshares can do your accounting and track property rights, but it cannot make it trust free.
Quote from: wesphily on January 20, 2015, 05:12:18 amSome people create a new LLC for each deal depending on if the same partners are used are not. LLC is popular due to no double tax. Would it be ideal to create a new asset for each deal? I could setup the terms so that investors know exactly what they could return. The only downside is that I'm not sure how to make it trustless. I'd have to somehow prove to others my intent to perform.Even though LLC can avoid the so-called 'double tax', a corporation will give you better legal protection. The entity is separate from the individual. A corporation issues shares and you can use bitshare as a tool to issue share as tokens. You can use the user-issued-asset for this or you can have your own bitshare tool where each 'bts' is treated as a share in your corporation.
Some people create a new LLC for each deal depending on if the same partners are used are not. LLC is popular due to no double tax. Would it be ideal to create a new asset for each deal? I could setup the terms so that investors know exactly what they could return. The only downside is that I'm not sure how to make it trustless. I'd have to somehow prove to others my intent to perform.
Is somebody working on a whitepaper for User issued assets? I too have been trying to find answers to questions about their function and how they allow compliance with securities laws.
Quote from: wesphily on January 20, 2015, 04:35:10 amI definitely do not want to get around laws. My goal is to increase my leverage so that I can do larger and more profitable deals. I am hoping that I can utilize bitshares in some way to accomplish this.Why would real estate not be "dacafiable?" There are several publicly traded real estate firms.Basically you're looking to issue your equity onto a blockchain. You can do that!Being publicly traded doesn't make your company decentralized or autonomous. You will still be a traditional centralized company with a traditional centralized incentive structure, you'll just have your shares use hip new technology instead of being listed on NASDAQ.
I definitely do not want to get around laws. My goal is to increase my leverage so that I can do larger and more profitable deals. I am hoping that I can utilize bitshares in some way to accomplish this.Why would real estate not be "dacafiable?" There are several publicly traded real estate firms.