BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Pheonike on April 21, 2015, 04:15:51 pm
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Looks like the Peercoin/NuBits/NuShares guys what to start a new exchange to compete with us
"B&C Exchange will be an open-source decentralized exchange that completes cryptocurrency trades between users by utilizing multisig signers that compete for blockchain rewards based on their effectiveness and honesty. Trades will occur using real cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and NuBits, as opposed to artificial proxy cryptoassets like those found in NXT or BitShares"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.0
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That is actually an interesting idea and seems like it could work. Can they implement it?
This is exactly the kind of innovation we need. Free market competition between communities of innovators will only improve the quality of the ecosystem. This is one of the first times in human history we have a nearly-free market.
Now we can see which solution is more efficient between DPoS and theirs. We can also see which group of programmers win the competition because just having a good solution doesn't mean they'll do a good job implementing it.
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We need to get this bird in the air because others planes are taxiing to the runway.
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don't forget SuperNET's InstaDEX - they're in Beta soon
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So they claim that BitAssets are synthetic, but then they propose an exchange that trades Bitcoin against Nubits. So they want you to believe that collateral guaranteed by a blockchain is more synthetic than the promises made by anonymous custodians who promise to keep collateral and buy back your Nubits.
I am impressed with how they managed to keep it going for so long - they have even reduced their supply of Nubits just like BitUSD does.
In other news, our friend Rune is also giving us competition for pegged crypto:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/33d5in/edollar_full_presentation_and_demo_at_next/
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This is basically a more decentralised version of metaexchange (with the limit order feature that I'm currently adding). They will need to run coin daemons on their servers for every coin which is tradeable, like we do. The difference between us and them is that they keep all their accounting in a blockchain, whereas we keep it in mysql.
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decentralized exchange .... utilizing multisig signers ... rewards based on their effectiveness and honesty.
I stripped the OP and highlighted the relevant words for you
//edit: the comparison with NXT and BTS is just non-sense. Both sell ASSETS as a token .. which are "real" crypto tokens without separate blockchain ..
though this may hold for bitassets .. does NXT have something comparable?
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In other news, our friend Rune is also giving us competition for pegged crypto:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/33d5in/edollar_full_presentation_and_demo_at_next/
I miss Rune... :'(
Remember that time he wanted to do a hostile takeover of bitcoin?
lol good times...
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if the starting with B&C the NuShares capital has to increase of 12.5% to fund the project. In BitShare terms it would be called dilution and inflation they call it auction.
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This is basically a more decentralised version of metaexchange (with the limit order feature that I'm currently adding). They will need to run coin daemons on their servers for every coin which is tradeable, like we do. The difference between us and them is that they keep all their accounting in a blockchain, whereas we keep it in mysql.
Maybe it's time you decentralize MetaExchange. Keep up and surpass the competition.
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Bitshares may be "synthetic" assets but it's also why you don't have capital gains risk for trading it. It's like kind exchange while if you trade Bitcoin for NXT it might not still be that.
So Bitshares is significantly less risk in terms of the SEC and other entities. All of the competitors seem to give no attention at all to compliance or to protecting the participants from legal risk.
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This is basically a more decentralised version of metaexchange (with the limit order feature that I'm currently adding). They will need to run coin daemons on their servers for every coin which is tradeable, like we do. The difference between us and them is that they keep all their accounting in a blockchain, whereas we keep it in mysql.
Maybe it's time you decentralize MetaExchange. Keep up and surpass the competition.
I don't think there is any functional advantage to doing that. They will have the same amount required trust from users as we do - each liquidity provider on metaexchange is essentially like one of their 'signers'. They still have counterparty risk in that a signer could just destroy all their keys, rendering the funds lost.
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"The BitShares community has found the announcement3, and while I hope they are constructive in their comments, history tells us that we may be a target for them."
Remember guys, be nice ;)
Tbh I find it interesting, it's nice to see competition around and I'm curious about it
I agree with Shentist though, why was it a "dilution" for us and "auction" for them? Well, it's a nice play with words, guess we shoulda been smarter
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Looks like the Peercoin/NuBits/NuShares guys what to start a new exchange to compete with us
"B&C Exchange will be an open-source decentralized exchange that completes cryptocurrency trades between users by utilizing multisig signers that compete for blockchain rewards based on their effectiveness and honesty. Trades will occur using real cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and NuBits, as opposed to artificial proxy cryptoassets like those found in NXT or BitShares"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.0
BitAssets are arguably no more "artificial" than Bitcoin, and every bit as "real" as Bitcoin.
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Good for them!
1.Seem far more trivial for BTS and NXT to implement this (just needing multisign holders of the traded coins on top of existing market functionality).
2.I will even claim that if we currently have muli-sign IOU issuance (do we?), we have a superior system to the proposed one already in Bitshares.
3.This is more for Mr Lee than here but how do they plan to prevent someone from flooding the system with (matched) orders and not following through with the actual coin transfers?
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3.This is more for Mr Lee than here but how do they plan to prevent someone from flooding the system with (matched) orders and not following through with the actual coin transfers?
They can't - you're thinking too decentralised. The orders are matched in a trusted environment.
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I agree with Shentist though, why was it a "dilution" for us and "auction" for them? Well, it's a nice play with words, guess we shoulda been smarter
Forgive me if you're already aware, but these NSR aren't being created for the auction. They already exist and are part of the shares that remain undistributed.
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I agree with Shentist though, why was it a "dilution" for us and "auction" for them? Well, it's a nice play with words, guess we shoulda been smarter
Forgive me if you're already aware, but these NSR aren't being created for the auction. They already exist and are part of the shares that remain undistributed.
I see. Thanks! That should be mentioned though, to avoid confusion. Users of nushares might know about it already but others not familiar with the system might not know about it. Those kind of situations are one fud post away from a big dump, unfortunately (unless i did miss it, if so, my mistake)
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I agree with Shentist though, why was it a "dilution" for us and "auction" for them? Well, it's a nice play with words, guess we shoulda been smarter
Forgive me if you're already aware, but these NSR aren't being created for the auction. They already exist and are part of the shares that remain undistributed.
I see. Thanks! That should be mentioned though, to avoid confusion. Users of nushares might know about it already but others not familiar with the system might not know about it. Those kind of situations are one fud post away from a big dump, unfortunately (unless i did miss it, if so, my mistake)
I believe it went down like this. 1 Billion were created at launch. Roughly 700 million were sold/distributed. Another 100 million sold in an auction a few months back to fund the network. If this motion passes another 100 million will be auctioned which will leave 100 million which will likely be destroyed. This leaves the network at 900m, 10% less than were created and originally intended to be distributed at launch.
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I agree with Shentist though, why was it a "dilution" for us and "auction" for them? Well, it's a nice play with words, guess we shoulda been smarter
Forgive me if you're already aware, but these NSR aren't being created for the auction. They already exist and are part of the shares that remain undistributed.
thanks for the info. I just wanted to point, that the NuShares community do the same, but we call it dilution and inflation, so we should just "rebrand" our own stuff!
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There have been several objections to my mention of Bitshares trading proxy assets. There has been a misunderstanding, so I apologize for my part in that. I'm not suggesting BitUSD is a proxy asset, because Bitshares is the native blockchain of BitUSD. I was referring to assets like BitBTC that are in fact proxies for assets native to foreign blockchains.
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There have been several objections to my mention of Bitshares trading proxy assets. There has been a misunderstanding, so I apologize for my part in that. I'm not suggesting BitUSD is a proxy asset, because Bitshares is the native blockchain of BitUSD. I was referring to assets like BitBTC that are in fact proxies for assets native to foreign blockchains.
Isn't there increased risk in trading assets which aren't made up of the same underlying asset?
For example BTC for PPC and then you could have to pay capital gains tax. So what advantage is there if you don't want the tax? The only advantage would be if you get like-kind treatment.
With BTS it's like trading video game tokens all in the same game world. It's like trading in WoW. But things change quick when you trade between assets which aren't from the same world because now the IRS could say Bitcoin and Peercoin are different enough that you must pay capital gains.
On the other hand if you're just trying to acquire the actual assets and not speculate then it does make sense to directly trade but again Bitshares will allow people to cash out into real BTC from BitBTC in that way. So for the day trader there is no advantage to direct trading of assets and for people who don't day trade there might be an advantage but couldn't they just use Shapeshift?
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I agree with Shentist though, why was it a "dilution" for us and "auction" for them? Well, it's a nice play with words, guess we shoulda been smarter
Forgive me if you're already aware, but these NSR aren't being created for the auction. They already exist and are part of the shares that remain undistributed.
thanks for the info. I just wanted to point, that the NuShares community do the same, but we call it dilution and inflation, so we should just "rebrand" our own stuff!
Yes. Hard to tell the difference between
1. Increasing the supply gradually by releasing/selling/auctioning pre-printed uncirculated tokens or
2. Printing them up just in time with each block the way Bitcoin and BitShares do, or
3. Issuing 10% to developers at genesis who gradually sell them into circulation to fund development.
All are functionally identical, but as an industry we are learning the hard way what is easiest for the casual observer to accept.
If we had done it one of the other ways then that would be the reason for the current recession.
:)
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Bitshares should always post a pre-announcement to all new added features of the wallet so it will create a buzz like this post doing buzz with NUbits now.
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Bitshares should always post a pre-announcement to all new added features of the wallet so it will create a buzz like this post doing buzz with NUbits now.
What buzz? They haven't even done anything. Don't get me wrong.. I wish them luck but the 'buzz' is non-existent.. besides, they're a year behind BitShares building a DEX.. by the time they have a product BitShares will already be well established.
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Bitshares should always post a pre-announcement to all new added features of the wallet so it will create a buzz like this post doing buzz with NUbits now.
What buzz? They haven't even done anything. Don't get me wrong.. I wish them luck but the 'buzz' is non-existent.. besides, they're a year behind BitShares building a DEX.. by the time they have a product BitShares will already be well established.
Precisely, they haven't done anything yet but this thread is talking about it.
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it seems they are closer to success than us, we need hurry up.
Their product Nubits seems solving the liquid and stable problem very good for now.
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Hey guys. I'm from the Nu/Peercoin communities. I just noticed Jordan Lee's response on Bitcointalk. It seems he expects to support Bitshares as long as shareholders approve it after the exchange launches. Just wanted to let you know of this...
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg11193137#msg11193137
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Hey guys. I'm from the Nu/Peercoin communities. I just noticed Jordan Lee's response on Bitcointalk. It seems he expects to support Bitshares as long as shareholders approve it after the exchange launches. Just wanted to let you know of this...
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg11193137#msg11193137
The extremely secure way in which funds are handled will make it worth the short wait for experienced traders who understand just how high the risk of default is with centralized exchanges.
I expect BlockShare holders will choose to support NXT and Bitshares, so B&C Exchange will be open in a way NXT and Bitshares are not, because those platforms only permit you to trade assets that are native to their blockchain. So if you want to trade Bitcoin for Bitshares, you can't do it using the Bitshares exchange. You would first need to acquire BitBTC, an asset on the Bitshare blockchain designed to track Bitcoin. With B&C Exchange, however, you will be able to trade Bitshares for Bitcoin directly without the use of proxy assets. B&C Exchange is truly cross-platform compatible.
Interesting. :)
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bribowles.blogspot.com (http://bribowles.blogspot.com)
There is this if anyone cares to read it. It is another approach on the same problem, but does not require multisig support. It uses a secondary blockchain to collateralize trades in a game-theory based manner. If such a DEX was created and it found significant liquidity providers, then it could perform much like shapeshift but decentralized. There are tradeoffs in complexity though, with all the bonds/collateralization etc adding a lot of difficulty in implementation. Taking into account how thin markets are etc makes it very difficult.
A multi-sig approach will have other advantages, but each traded coin has to support multi-sig and using multisig shifts around the basis of the counter-party risk. With the approach in the paper above, one could support Ripple or any other coin and transition towards multisig as the feature becomes standardized.
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bribowles.blogspot.com (http://bribowles.blogspot.com)
There is this if anyone cares to read it. It is another approach on the same problem, but does not require multisig support. It uses a secondary blockchain to collateralize trades in a game-theory based manner. If such a DEX was created and it found significant liquidity providers, then it could perform much like shapeshift but decentralized. There are tradeoffs in complexity though, with all the bonds/collateralization etc adding a lot of difficulty in implementation. Taking into account how thin markets are etc makes it very difficult.
A multi-sig approach will have other advantages, but each traded coin has to support multi-sig and using multisig shifts around the basis of the counter-party risk. With the approach in the paper above, one could support Ripple or any other coin and transition towards multisig as the feature becomes standardized.
Yep, I do feel like the last one interested in a true decentralized exchange... the rest of the world is just fine with 'send your coins first to appointed by us (and hard for the regular joe to be included into) parties' approach that Mr Lee preaches to the world.