How to best perform an after-the-fact, unknown time sharedrop.

[Ander]

Is there a reason we couldn't use the random number generation built in to bitshares itself?

Just hash the revealed secret of the 101 (or however many witness nodes there are) blocks after the end of the sharedrop window. 

Yes this.

[puppies]

Is there a reason we couldn't use the random number generation built in to bitshares itself?

Just hash the revealed secret of the 101 (or however many witness nodes there are) blocks after the end of the sharedrop window.  That last delegate/witness would have a very slight pre-knowledge, but the only options they would have is to sign the block and reveal their secret, or to skip the block, and hope the next signer had a secret they liked more. 

Naturally any nodes that missed that last block would be viewed with suspicion. 

[MrJeans]

  nice solution

[Stan]

Only brief because this had already been discussed here...

It clearly IS competing against BTS as a sharedrop target and against BTS market value.

Actually there is one argument AGAINST using BTS as sharedrop target no-one brought up yet:
If you can recall PTS prices, what exactly happened after 28th of february last year?
BTS(X) market cap was effectively taken out of the PTS market cap at the time of the snapshot and the priced tanked big time.
Because BTS are used as collateral, this may result in ... you guess it .. a black swan (of course only if the airdropping market cap is large vs. BTS's market cap)

Also, IMHO, the goal of a snapshot is NOT to drive the price up (because it will go down again eventually) .... but to honor a community.

In my opinion, snapshots nowadays only make sense if you do them without further notice .. that way you
* do not drive price up
* prevent a price tanking at the time of the snapshot
* while you are still able to drop on your valuable demographic

Just my thoughts ..

I guess having the possibility of a snapshot that could occur at any time would encourage folks not to leave their BTS on some external exchange and not to sell BTS even temporarily just to fool around promiscuously with other coins...

^^ THIS! but mainly because of what I stated in my previous post.

and here...

A sharedrop happening at a random time still results in a value drop once it is announced that the sharedrop cutoff is passed, which still results in a shock to the internal markets. 

The only difference it makes is that it allows insiders who know the date of the sharedrop to benefit greatly at the expense of everyone else, by buying BTS right before they do the  sharedrop and then dumping right after it.

Of course it depends upon who knows ahead of time, and what their motivation is.

If the only person with pre-knowledge is the dev, then I wouldn't consider it a great threat.

After all I would consider the purpose of the sharedrop to be actually getting the coins in the hands of potential adopters.

The way I had envisioned it, the block would be selected automagically a week or two before launch in some provably honest way.  The exact details are left as an exercise for the student.

The OP here did a nice job of filling in some of the details.

[Thom]

I am watching this thread like a hawk for 3 reasons:

• To gauge how widespread support for Ander's idea exists in the community
• To see if others contribute improvements to it
• To observe how Cryptonomex responds

Stan's post was one of the most brief I've ever seen him make. Don't want to read too much into that but we'll see if it's telling or not.

This idea was posted late Friday night, and it needs time to permeate into the community and the deciders at Cryptonomex. Frankly I don't see the downside and the upside is very compelling. If there are significant downsides that dwarf the benefits they need to be presented here for all to judge. This should be a community decision, not one by decree!

Too early for a poll, but that might be a worthy consideration. Since the ramifications of this decision could potentially be rather profound, it might be best to employ a UIA to more formally conduct a poll that has broader reach, like the one used to vote for or against BitShares 2.0 adoption, (I can't seem to find those 2 UIAs on bsb, nor could I find the discussion about them here on the forums with a 10 minute search effort).

[mf-tzo]

I think the sharedrop period should be far longer than 2 weeks.  I am thinking 2 months.

2 weeks is definitely very short. 2 months sounds long. 1 month as we always have done is ideal imho

[CLains]

I think the sharedrop period should be far longer than 2 weeks.  I am thinking 2 months.

I was thinking to sync it with 2.0 launch but now I realize this will be way after BitShares 2.0 launches.. Then a long period makes sense.

[bytemaster]

I think the sharedrop period should be far longer than 2 weeks.  I am thinking 2 months. 

[CLains]

Great idea Ander!

I think we MUST take care to announce the terms of the sharedrop FAR and WIDE well in advance of time A.

1) We can't fault people for using exchanges when our wallet is incomplete and without multisig and 2FA easily available.
2) We don't want exchanges getting unreasonable amounts of BTS completely for free.

The remaining question is, how far in advance must we announce before time A? I would say announcement something like 4 weeks before A and then 2 weeks between A and B.

[bobmaloney]

Great idea!

You can use as one of the inputs https://www.random.org/ random number generator. 

Doesn't PLAY offer this exact feature?

Seems like this might be a perfect opportunity to demonstrate a touch of their capabilities?

[mf-tzo]

  Ander!

[Ben Mason]

Sounds like an excellent solution!!   

[fuzzy]

I'm really glad there are sharper minds than my own thinking these issues through. Not only does the approach you describe avoid the temptation of insider trading it also eliminates the basis for accusations of insider trading after the sharedrop is all said and done.

Such  accusations seem inevitable, somebody is always unhappy. This would help to avoid that. Oh sure, there will always be nay sayers and irrational FUD slingers that ignore the facts, but no scheme will ever eliminate that. The best we can hope for is to minimize the ammunition they use in their FUD cannons.

Your approach helps everyone, except perhaps people that might attempt to gain at the expense of others. G +5%ood job Ander

100% agreed here.  This is why our hangouts are open as they are--there are so many extremely intelligent people here just searching for things to build, fix and or improve. 

[betax]

Great idea!

You can use as one of the inputs https://www.random.org/ random number generator.  When I was running the lottocharity delegate this was the basis to select forum members (that was not very successful, as I never made it to the top 100 ). The best thing is that is truly random, It cannot be cheated and stores the results.

[Thom]

I'm really glad there are sharper minds than my own thinking these issues through. Not only does the approach you describe avoid the temptation of insider trading it also eliminates the basis for accusations of insider trading after the sharedrop is all said and done.

Yep!  Thats a big deal I think.  Gotta prevent the newmines of the world from being able to accuse the devs of insider trading.

As well as preventing the case where such accusations could be true!