Can you add a "long story short , " sentence ? :PSure:
Long story short - 200% collateral from shorts is a destructive force for the BTS market. The sooner we realize it and get rid of it the better. Why I believe this to be the case - you should read the long version above. :) At least between the short version tags!
Can you add a "long story short , " sentence ? :PSure:
I asked around , some people don't mind the current rule , but they simply don't want to short because they're afraid that their short order would get lost due to some bugs .Hu? There is no such issue .. shorting works just fine ..
They would want to short if this issue is solved .
I asked around , some people don't mind the current rule , but they simply don't want to short because they're afraid that their short order would get lost due to some bugs .Hu? There is no such issue .. shorting works just fine ..
They would want to short if this issue is solved .
This one: https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues/1385I asked around , some people don't mind the current rule , but they simply don't want to short because they're afraid that their short order would get lost due to some bugs .Hu? There is no such issue .. shorting works just fine ..
They would want to short if this issue is solved .
Thx for sharing .. havent read about it yet ..This one: https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues/1385I asked around , some people don't mind the current rule , but they simply don't want to short because they're afraid that their short order would get lost due to some bugs .Hu? There is no such issue .. shorting works just fine ..
They would want to short if this issue is solved .
I just found BitShares a little while ago and have been skimming through the forum to learn more. It seems that BitShares is really something totally new that nobody else has done before, so only way to go forward is through trial and error. It is always easy to say afterwards that "we should have done things differently" but at the time of making those decisions, it's impossible to know what is the optimal way.
I'm actually quite impressed how well the developers have handled difficult decisions. Of course it will always give some distress to investors when plans are changed on the fly, but in the long run it is propably the only way to make sure that the end product will be great.
What we should do is just tools. People will use it to develop the ecosystem.+5%
We need to concentrate on the key tools: wallets, gateways, decentralized exchange.
Price of bts is not undervalued, it is the right place it is worth now after considering the tools now and future potential.
I am fairly new here, from my (rather limited) perspective it went a bit downhill with the whole PR blunder and dev silence on the forums.
How can that be a good thing? IMO there needs to exist some back and forth between users and developers, otherwise it seems to me that the devs live in their nice cathedral in the clouds away from the userbase, and the users don't know very well what the devs are up to and even if the users' opinions matter at all.
I am fairly new here, from my (rather limited) perspective it went a bit downhill with the whole PR blunder and dev silence on the forums.
How can that be a good thing? IMO there needs to exist some back and forth between users and developers, otherwise it seems to me that the devs live in their nice cathedral in the clouds away from the userbase, and the users don't know very well what the devs are up to and even if the users' opinions matter at all.
+1000%
The only evidence we have at the moment that anything is being done is the github logs.
I remember getting into debates on reddit about how the BitShares developers are really transparent because theyre always on the forums answering questions. This is no longer the case.
Forums are addicting. I suspect leaving the forums is as hard for the devs as it is for those who want to interact with them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
edit :
by the way , this is the 15 time in 10 minute that I click this post to see who has replied ..... so you can see how addictive this forum stuff is ....
I want to leave and do some more important things , but I just couldn't resist going back , because I feel like I'm in a conversation while it's not .
help me , please :-X
OK. A lot of opinions on ' forum addictiveness' , 'PR of silence' is the best / worst thing ever, Xeroc's knowledge of every possible bug; plus a healthy dose of wildpigs wisdom on wide range of subjects - from 'people will short more if they are not afraid of bugs' to 'devs will respond to development issues (i.e. not like the OP post, where no such issues were raised)'...
Anyone with opinion on the main issue (aka between the 'short version' tags) in the OP?
Did you bother to read the OP wildpig?OK. A lot of opinions on ' forum addictiveness' , 'PR of silence' is the best / worst thing ever, Xeroc's knowledge of every possible bug; plus a healthy dose of wildpigs wisdom on wide range of subjects - from 'people will short more if they are not afraid of bugs' to 'devs will respond to development issues (i.e. not like the OP post, where no such issues were raised)'...
Anyone with opinion on the main issue (aka between the 'short version' tags) in the OP?
If shorts are gonna have a wonderful life according to your improvement , and in the mean time there is still no significant increase in adoption of BitAssets , what will happen then ?
Will that be just like when BTA was first brought online last year and those BTA are produced more than market demand ?
Does you margin call include a 5% penalty? or would it come for "free"?It is up for discussion...but the same way it works currently - the 5% penalty is somewhat independent of the margin call trigger price - as it is subtracted (or not) after the margin call is triggered and even after the order is filled.
I suggest 200% total collateral and margin call triggered by price movement of as little as 15% from shorting price.
Now shorted BTA should been covered in one month , it is so short . many people think BTS is bullish in future , but cannot know in one month . so there only a few people to short BTA. can we introduce one month short , there month short ,six month short. one year short . it mean cover the short in one,there ,six twelve months respectively. and there is a required MIN yield per type of short+5
For example,
Short type Cover deadline required MIN yield required MIN collateral
one month short in one month 0% 300%
there month short in there month 4% 300%
six month short in six month 8% 400%
twelve month short in twelve month 16% 400%
now translation queue according to yield.
so
queue yield for queue =Yield supply by shorter -required MIN yield
Now shorted BTA should been covered in one month , it is so short . many people think BTS is bullish in future , but cannot know in one month . so there only a few people to short BTA. can we introduce one month short , there month short ,six month short. one year short . it mean cover the short in one,there ,six twelve months respectively. and there is a required MIN yield per type of short
For example,
Short type Cover deadline required MIN yield required MIN collateral
one month short in one month 0% 300%
there month short in there month 4% 300%
six month short in six month 8% 400%
twelve month short in twelve month 16% 400%
now translation queue according to yield.
so
queue yield for queue =Yield supply by shorter -required MIN yield
Now shorted BTA should been covered in one month , it is so short . many people think BTS is bullish in future , but cannot know in one month . so there only a few people to short BTA. can we introduce one month short , there month short ,six month short. one year short . it mean cover the short in one,there ,six twelve months respectively. and there is a required MIN yield per type of short
For example,
Short type Cover deadline required MIN yield required MIN collateral
one month short in one month 0% 300%
there month short in there month 4% 300%
six month short in six month 8% 400%
twelve month short in twelve month 16% 400%
now translation queue according to yield.
so
queue yield for queue =Yield supply by shorter -required MIN yield
The current 300% collateral (200% from shorts) puts the shorts in unnecessarily unfair position.
you can cover you short in any time.Now shorted BTA should been covered in one month , it is so short . many people think BTS is bullish in future , but cannot know in one month . so there only a few people to short BTA. can we introduce one month short , there month short ,six month short. one year short . it mean cover the short in one,there ,six twelve months respectively. and there is a required MIN yield per type of short
For example,
Short type Cover deadline required MIN yield required MIN collateral
one month short in one month 0% 300%
there month short in there month 4% 300%
six month short in six month 8% 400%
twelve month short in twelve month 16% 400%
now translation queue according to yield.
so
queue yield for queue =Yield supply by shorter -required MIN yield
it fall form 0.3 CNY to 0.06 CNY, just in half a year.
it is hard to say what will happen in a year. even 10 times of collateral will not enough. But if collateral is too much, people have no interest to short.
BTS system is new system ,so we try find the similar system in real world ,you know short BTA much much similar with lend money from bank with collateral btsNow shorted BTA should been covered in one month , it is so short . many people think BTS is bullish in future , but cannot know in one month . so there only a few people to short BTA. can we introduce one month short , there month short ,six month short. one year short . it mean cover the short in one,there ,six twelve months respectively. and there is a required MIN yield per type of short
For example,
Short type Cover deadline required MIN yield required MIN collateral
one month short in one month 0% 300%
there month short in there month 4% 300%
six month short in six month 8% 400%
twelve month short in twelve month 16% 400%
now translation queue according to yield.
so
queue yield for queue =Yield supply by shorter -required MIN yield
Yield harvesting means that the yield provided by the short does not necessarily benefit the long even though the long does suffer from this change because of lower volume on the BitAsset/BTS exchange (due to less frequent forced turnover) and an inability to guarantee exiting into BTS in 1 month. The increased minimum collateral also doesn't protect against undercollateralization risk much because the margin call would still be the same. So in short, all this does is add unnecessary disadvantages to shorts to compensate for the huge advantage it provides for longer terms, but it does not provide any advantages to the long even though it causes huge disadvantages to the long.
I don't think it is a good idea to have different term lengths within a given BitAsset/BTS market. It is fine if a different BitAsset variant had a different term length (for example the current BitUSD could be BitUSD-30 and we could have another asset BitUSD-90 which had term lengths of 3 months; these two BitUSDs would of course not be fungible with one another), but within a single BitAsset I think it is better for the terms to be the same. We can then argue whether the standard BitAssets we have today should have a term length of 30 days or if we should extend it a little. Personally, I think 30 days is fine.yes it maybe a methods , but as you said, they be fungible with one another
In fact, when we start discussing different term lengths, I think what we really should be talking about are bond markets. There can be 1-month BitUSD bonds, 3-month BitUSD bonds, 6-month BitUSD bonds, etc. Then by selling it for some price less than its nominal value to someone going long, it effectively sets the interest rate in a way that cannot be harvested like yield can. So, the people who want to speculate on USD/BTS price over the long term would use the bond market, but people who want cryptocash (perhaps with no to little yield) would want BitUSD with a short 30-day term limit to ensure a nice market peg.yes people can extend their short , but they need more bts to finish it , can the process is a little complex。it would block some of people to short BTA because they don`t want to operate per week or months.
Also keep in mind that it is already possible today to effectively extend your term length by using a larger effective collateral. That is what this post (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14622.msg190144#msg190144) was all about. In that post I discussed how it was possible to effectively have three consecutive terms without realizing losses (given certain assumptions like the price never dropping more than 33% within a 30 day period) until the end of the third term. If I assume 7 days is allocated for finding the right opportunity to self-short at 0% interest (meaning I assume it is possible to find the market in a state where there are no BitUSD sell orders at or below the price feed within a 7 day window) then that means in the worst case I have 23 days per each term. If I want 4 consecutive terms to allow for 92 consecutive days (three months) without realizing losses, I need to choose N = 3 (see my linked post) which gives a p_3 = 20% (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Plot%5B1%2F%282.3817+*+%281.5%29%5E%28N-1%29+-+0.5%29%2C+%7BN%2C+1%2C+5%7D%5D) and means that I can only (conservatively) short sell at most 10% of the value of my BTS. Essentially this means that my effective collateral (BTS I have allocated for this purpose and cannot be used for other purposes) is not a little over 200% (nearly all in collateral) but rather 1000% collateral (200% in collateral and 800% held on the side for roll overs). If by the end of the third month I can auto-cover at the price feed which is at a price (in BitUSD/BTS) that is larger than the price I initially shorted at (3 months prior), then I will gain a BTS profit.
less and less people short BTA now
To clarify, I do remember the shorting issue and thought it made it into one of the recent releases ..
Also I'd like to remark that even even though BitShares takes almost 100% of my spare time, it has gotten very difficult to follow every discussion AND contribute where possible ..
IMHO, things are moving forward alot faster than 9 months ago .. the baby is maturing as is the community ..
+5%!