BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rune on February 04, 2015, 08:54:19 pm
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We at Cryptohedge have decided to create our investor token already, so we can easily do accounting in the share rewards that early employees get. We have also had several people reach out to us because they were interested in helping the project, and we want to make it possible for us to compensate everyone who does work for the DAC from the very beginning.
CFSCOIN is the Cryptohedge investor token, and will eventually take on the properties of CFS as outlined in the cryptohedge announcement post and business case. Over time we might still register CFS and switch over to using that instead, but for now we will use CFSCOIN in order to save investor funds, and also to emphasize the contract free nature of Cryptohedge (since most people understand that a coin does not confer any legal rights or responsibilities).
There have been issued 1 million CFSCOIN, and most of them will initially be used as a means of paying "salary" to those who help and work for Cryptohedge. Riverhead and I will retain centralized control over how to compensate employees in the early days of the DAC. We don't expect the asset to be liquid, but employees will be free to hold or put their stake up on the market.
Anyone who is interested in working for Cryptohedge in exchange for CFSCOIN and have something they think can contribute should PM me and we can discuss it. We will likely follow the delegate model and expect to see real work done before we begin to pay you anything.
Over time the value proposition of CFSCOIN will change as we begin to burn shares with a portion of the income earned from our HedgeBots (this will be up to 30% of their income, as described in the business case). This will begin at the time of the CFSGOLD sharedrop, where we will also begin to run our own market making bots on the CFSCOIN/USD market in order to make it fully liquid. The sharedrop to CFSGOLD holders will be for 150,000 out of the 1 million CFSCOIN (so it will be 15% instead of 10%).
We are not going to make an IBO for 40% of the shares the way I described it earlier, as I realise it is more efficient to pay people in CFSCOIN and let them cash out over time when they want to, or slowly sell off CFSCOIN over time in order to raise funds for a project. As written the distribution of the 1 million CFSCOIN will be fully controlled by Riverhead and I, and will be spent with the ultimate aim of increasing the price of CFSCOIN (i.e. as payment for something that adds higher value to the DAC).
The total supply of CFSCOIN can increase in the future if shareholders determine that this will be profitable, perhaps something that can be done through smart contracts that allow the UIA to elect "delegates" that pay themselves salary by inflating new CFSCOIN. This way the DAC will not have its employees controlled by a central authority, but will instead have all employees responding directly to the holders of CFSCOIN and their votes, just like BTS works. This is of course still something that is far off and will not be done before Cryptohedge is already successful, and BitShares has implemented the relevant smart contract systems.
Also just for fun I'm going to do a small giveaway for 100 CFSCOIN from my personal stake to anyone who posts their registered BTS names in this thread :)
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flux-tips
:)
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Glad to see the bitgold market cap respond to your CFS initiative. Looking forward to molten (liquid) bitgold!
BTS: robrigo
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bts: akado
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BTS:traderx 8)
where can read more about this new dac?
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skyscraperfarms
I'll give it a try.
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+5%
bts: leonx
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BTS:traderx 8)
where can read more about this new dac?
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13904.0
Some of the stuff mentioned in the thread has already changed though. Cryptohedge is going to be rapidly evolving over the next few weeks and won't have its "real launch" until we've fully assembled the core team and have figured out all the concepts. To make up for this my plan is to generously give out CFSCOIN to funders and investors who stick with us during this time of constant change. :)
I will send out the giveaway once per day, and I should probably get this thread moved to the UIA subforum so it doesn't spam general discussion...
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bts: fabiux +5%
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"(since most people understand that a coin does not confer any legal rights or responsibilities)."
This is not a true statement. Crypto currency is considered property. People have the right of ownership which is a legal right :P It is also a tax liability which is a responsibility :)
You also need to be very careful with the words you use. If ownership of a coin is supposed to represent ownership in a company similar to a share/security then it will be treated legally that way implicitly. Doesn't matter if there is a document or not. Really, it is worse if you don't have documents because a malicisous person could utilize this fact to black mail you.
All of this is assuming that CFS is a legal entity. (LLC/s-corp/c-corp/ect...) If it only exists in crypto technology and not on a document then I'm not sure how it will be treated since it isn't a legal company. I got road blocked on this when trying to utilize bitshares for Real Estate. A crypto company does not have the ability to own real property. (real property = real estate) There is too much red tape for a small timer like me to use bitshares for a legal company that can own real property.
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Sounds Great
BTS: pheonike
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BTS: mdj
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Exciting. So are you still planning sharedrops of CFSCOIN on CFSAssets besides CFSGOLD, and if so what percentages? The way I figure it, CFSCOIN can already start acting as the insurance to back CFSAssets in case of losses, correct?
BTS: arhag :)
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"(since most people understand that a coin does not confer any legal rights or responsibilities)."
This is not a true statement. Crypto currency is considered property. People have the right of ownership which is a legal right :P It is also a tax liability which is a responsibility :)
You also need to be very careful with the words you use. If ownership of a coin is supposed to represent ownership in a company similar to a share/security then it will be treated legally that way implicitly. Doesn't matter if there is a document or not. Really, it is worse if you don't have documents because a malicisous person could utilize this fact to black mail you.
All of this is assuming that CFS is a legal entity. (LLC/s-corp/c-corp/ect...) If it only exists in crypto technology and not on a document then I'm not sure how it will be treated since it isn't a legal company. I got road blocked on this when trying to utilize bitshares for Real Estate. A crypto company does not have the ability to own real property. (real property = real estate) There is too much red tape for a small timer like me to use bitshares for a legal company that can own real property.
I'm glad to get some input on this.
Cryptohedge is a DAC and will only ever exist on the bitshares blockchain and owning CFSCOIN does not give you anything other than owning CFSCOIN. For now, CFSCOIN is backed purely by the reputation of Riverhead and me (i.e. it will have value to people who believe we are going to do with it what we have said we plan to do with it).
My vision for how it will end up in its final decentralized "true DAC state" is where the only way it can interface with the real world is through contract-free compensation of employees (delegate style), and reputation based custodianship of client funds. The idea is to create a web of trust that starts out with me and riverhead and expands to include more employees, and could eventually potentially include trusted anonymous employees (trustable, yet untargetable by LE). The DAC should ultimately be 100% controlled by voting done by CFSCOIN holders, and the counterparty exposure that CFSGOLD and other assets get should be moved from Riverhead and me onto the CFSCOIN voters as a whole (through voting controlled smart contracts somehow :P).
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look forward to seeing where this goes
BTS: houseofpereira
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"(since most people understand that a coin does not confer any legal rights or responsibilities)."
This is not a true statement. Crypto currency is considered property. People have the right of ownership which is a legal right :P It is also a tax liability which is a responsibility :)
You also need to be very careful with the words you use. If ownership of a coin is supposed to represent ownership in a company similar to a share/security then it will be treated legally that way implicitly. Doesn't matter if there is a document or not. Really, it is worse if you don't have documents because a malicisous person could utilize this fact to black mail you.
All of this is assuming that CFS is a legal entity. (LLC/s-corp/c-corp/ect...) If it only exists in crypto technology and not on a document then I'm not sure how it will be treated since it isn't a legal company. I got road blocked on this when trying to utilize bitshares for Real Estate. A crypto company does not have the ability to own real property. (real property = real estate) There is too much red tape for a small timer like me to use bitshares for a legal company that can own real property.
I'm glad to get some input on this.
Cryptohedge is a DAC and will only ever exist on the bitshares blockchain and owning CFSCOIN does not give you anything other than owning CFSCOIN. For now, CFSCOIN is backed purely by the reputation of Riverhead and me (i.e. it will have value to people who believe we are going to do with it what we have said we plan to do with it).
My vision for how it will end up in its final decentralized "true DAC state" is where the only way it can interface with the real world is through contract-free compensation of employees (delegate style), and reputation based custodianship of client funds. The idea is to create a web of trust that starts out with me and riverhead and expands to include more employees, and could eventually potentially include trusted anonymous employees (trustable, yet untargetable by LE). The DAC should ultimately be 100% controlled by voting done by CFSCOIN holders, and the counterparty exposure that CFSGOLD and other assets get should be moved from Riverhead and me onto the CFSCOIN voters as a whole (through voting controlled smart contracts somehow :P).
You are safe for now. If bitshares fulfills what it says it wants to then this will change. You'll have to adapt. I would not be surprised if the SEC considered the act of holding shares and having decision making power makes the property a security and the investors limited partners. Although it would not be a documented company it could be seen legally as acting like one which would put it in SEC court.
Again, you are probably safe for now, BUT I would advise that you save back for a good lawyer.
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Exciting. So are you still planning sharedrops of CFSCOIN on CFSAssets besides CFSGOLD, and if so what percentages? The way I figure it, CFSCOIN can already start acting as the insurance to back CFSAssets in case of losses, correct?
BTS: arhag :)
Yes, I want to ultimately do some amount of sharedrop on every single MPA that gets listed on a centralized exchange, as I think it can work as a good way to kickstart the liquidity of those MPA's.
I'm not sure about percentages, I think the best option is to wait until the given CFS asset is launched to determine what sharedrop amount is most useful.
I don't think it would be honest to claim that CFSGOLD was insured until CFSCOIN has a high enough, liquid market cap to cover a total default of the exchange that holds the most CFS asset funds. Perhaps this means that we should start to run the buy&burn bots a bit before we do the CFSGOLD sharedrop, so we can make sure they are actually insured when they no longer have the sharedrop bonus. (though I guess since we currently trade on 0 exchanges we can credibly claim that we are fully insured against exchange default with CFSCOIN at 0 market cap :P)
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"(since most people understand that a coin does not confer any legal rights or responsibilities)."
This is not a true statement. Crypto currency is considered property. People have the right of ownership which is a legal right :P It is also a tax liability which is a responsibility :)
You also need to be very careful with the words you use. If ownership of a coin is supposed to represent ownership in a company similar to a share/security then it will be treated legally that way implicitly. Doesn't matter if there is a document or not. Really, it is worse if you don't have documents because a malicisous person could utilize this fact to black mail you.
All of this is assuming that CFS is a legal entity. (LLC/s-corp/c-corp/ect...) If it only exists in crypto technology and not on a document then I'm not sure how it will be treated since it isn't a legal company. I got road blocked on this when trying to utilize bitshares for Real Estate. A crypto company does not have the ability to own real property. (real property = real estate) There is too much red tape for a small timer like me to use bitshares for a legal company that can own real property.
I'm glad to get some input on this.
Cryptohedge is a DAC and will only ever exist on the bitshares blockchain and owning CFSCOIN does not give you anything other than owning CFSCOIN. For now, CFSCOIN is backed purely by the reputation of Riverhead and me (i.e. it will have value to people who believe we are going to do with it what we have said we plan to do with it).
My vision for how it will end up in its final decentralized "true DAC state" is where the only way it can interface with the real world is through contract-free compensation of employees (delegate style), and reputation based custodianship of client funds. The idea is to create a web of trust that starts out with me and riverhead and expands to include more employees, and could eventually potentially include trusted anonymous employees (trustable, yet untargetable by LE). The DAC should ultimately be 100% controlled by voting done by CFSCOIN holders, and the counterparty exposure that CFSGOLD and other assets get should be moved from Riverhead and me onto the CFSCOIN voters as a whole (through voting controlled smart contracts somehow :P).
You are safe for now. If bitshares fulfills what it says it wants to then this will change. You'll have to adapt. I would not be surprised if the SEC considered the act of holding shares and having decision making power makes the property a security and the investors limited partners. Although it would not be a documented company it could be seen legally as acting like one which would put it in SEC court.
Again, you are probably safe for now, BUT I would advise that you save back for a good lawyer.
Yeah, I agree that it's pretty certain that I, personally, will be targeted for illegal fundraising eventually, no matter how much I insist on it being "contract free" or "just a coin". But that will only happen if BTS gets big enough to get noticed and in that case I should be able to afford whatever fine I'm given :P
The most important thing is that people who buy our UIA's should not be at any risk of getting their funds seized if me or someone else gets targeted.
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bitcoinfan
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BTS: aloha
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mattjohnson
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"(since most people understand that a coin does not confer any legal rights or responsibilities)."
This is not a true statement. Crypto currency is considered property. People have the right of ownership which is a legal right :P It is also a tax liability which is a responsibility :)
You also need to be very careful with the words you use. If ownership of a coin is supposed to represent ownership in a company similar to a share/security then it will be treated legally that way implicitly. Doesn't matter if there is a document or not. Really, it is worse if you don't have documents because a malicisous person could utilize this fact to black mail you.
All of this is assuming that CFS is a legal entity. (LLC/s-corp/c-corp/ect...) If it only exists in crypto technology and not on a document then I'm not sure how it will be treated since it isn't a legal company. I got road blocked on this when trying to utilize bitshares for Real Estate. A crypto company does not have the ability to own real property. (real property = real estate) There is too much red tape for a small timer like me to use bitshares for a legal company that can own real property.
I'm glad to get some input on this.
Cryptohedge is a DAC and will only ever exist on the bitshares blockchain and owning CFSCOIN does not give you anything other than owning CFSCOIN. For now, CFSCOIN is backed purely by the reputation of Riverhead and me (i.e. it will have value to people who believe we are going to do with it what we have said we plan to do with it).
My vision for how it will end up in its final decentralized "true DAC state" is where the only way it can interface with the real world is through contract-free compensation of employees (delegate style), and reputation based custodianship of client funds. The idea is to create a web of trust that starts out with me and riverhead and expands to include more employees, and could eventually potentially include trusted anonymous employees (trustable, yet untargetable by LE). The DAC should ultimately be 100% controlled by voting done by CFSCOIN holders, and the counterparty exposure that CFSGOLD and other assets get should be moved from Riverhead and me onto the CFSCOIN voters as a whole (through voting controlled smart contracts somehow :P).
You are safe for now. If bitshares fulfills what it says it wants to then this will change. You'll have to adapt. I would not be surprised if the SEC considered the act of holding shares and having decision making power makes the property a security and the investors limited partners. Although it would not be a documented company it could be seen legally as acting like one which would put it in SEC court.
Again, you are probably safe for now, BUT I would advise that you save back for a good lawyer.
Yeah, I agree that it's pretty certain that I, personally, will be targeted for illegal fundraising eventually, no matter how much I insist on it being "contract free" or "just a coin". But that will only happen if BTS gets big enough to get noticed and in that case I should be able to afford whatever fine I'm given :P
The most important thing is that people who buy our UIA's should not be at any risk of getting their funds seized if me or someone else gets targeted.
It'd be more than a fine. Do you have a good lawyer already?
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BTS: frodo
Very interesting initiative +5%
Thank you.
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BTS: onceuponatime
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BTS: vikram
:D
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BTS: graffenwalder
Thanks mate, looking forward to how crypto hedge works out.
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BTS: yellowecho
8)
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"(since most people understand that a coin does not confer any legal rights or responsibilities)."
This is not a true statement. Crypto currency is considered property. People have the right of ownership which is a legal right :P It is also a tax liability which is a responsibility :)
You also need to be very careful with the words you use. If ownership of a coin is supposed to represent ownership in a company similar to a share/security then it will be treated legally that way implicitly. Doesn't matter if there is a document or not. Really, it is worse if you don't have documents because a malicisous person could utilize this fact to black mail you.
All of this is assuming that CFS is a legal entity. (LLC/s-corp/c-corp/ect...) If it only exists in crypto technology and not on a document then I'm not sure how it will be treated since it isn't a legal company. I got road blocked on this when trying to utilize bitshares for Real Estate. A crypto company does not have the ability to own real property. (real property = real estate) There is too much red tape for a small timer like me to use bitshares for a legal company that can own real property.
I'm glad to get some input on this.
Cryptohedge is a DAC and will only ever exist on the bitshares blockchain and owning CFSCOIN does not give you anything other than owning CFSCOIN. For now, CFSCOIN is backed purely by the reputation of Riverhead and me (i.e. it will have value to people who believe we are going to do with it what we have said we plan to do with it).
My vision for how it will end up in its final decentralized "true DAC state" is where the only way it can interface with the real world is through contract-free compensation of employees (delegate style), and reputation based custodianship of client funds. The idea is to create a web of trust that starts out with me and riverhead and expands to include more employees, and could eventually potentially include trusted anonymous employees (trustable, yet untargetable by LE). The DAC should ultimately be 100% controlled by voting done by CFSCOIN holders, and the counterparty exposure that CFSGOLD and other assets get should be moved from Riverhead and me onto the CFSCOIN voters as a whole (through voting controlled smart contracts somehow :P).
You are safe for now. If bitshares fulfills what it says it wants to then this will change. You'll have to adapt. I would not be surprised if the SEC considered the act of holding shares and having decision making power makes the property a security and the investors limited partners. Although it would not be a documented company it could be seen legally as acting like one which would put it in SEC court.
Again, you are probably safe for now, BUT I would advise that you save back for a good lawyer.
Yeah, I agree that it's pretty certain that I, personally, will be targeted for illegal fundraising eventually, no matter how much I insist on it being "contract free" or "just a coin". But that will only happen if BTS gets big enough to get noticed and in that case I should be able to afford whatever fine I'm given :P
The most important thing is that people who buy our UIA's should not be at any risk of getting their funds seized if me or someone else gets targeted.
It'd be more than a fine. Do you have a good lawyer already?
I have, but I have not done any legal consulting regarding issuing cryptocurrency tokens (and doubt I would get much out of it). I think you are assuming I live in the US. Luckily my jurisdiction is Denmark, where laws on finance and especially cryptocurrency are much more lenient. We don't even have to pay any taxes on any cryptocurrency gains! (and taxes are insane in denmark otherwise). Also we have a partially state owned bitcoin exchange :P
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Let's try :)
BTS: testz
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sumantso
I had wanted to get the other 10 BitGOLD/10 Shares thing. Is there an easy way to move into it from BTC? I can't work the wallet on my laptop.
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Send 100 to Ander.
Also looking to buy some once they become liquid! :)
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sumantso
I had wanted to get the other 10 BitGOLD/10 Shares thing. Is there an easy way to move into it from BTC? I can't work the wallet on my laptop.
This can be arranged, please PM me the amount you want to buy with BTC.
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The most important thing is that people who buy our UIA's should not be at any risk of getting their funds seized if me or someone else gets targeted.
This is going to be difficult to manage considering your operations consist of doing market making on outside exchanges. It is one thing to use multisig to protect the UIA issuer/manager from dumping a bunch of newly issued CFSAssets or CFSCOIN, but the thing that provides most of the value to CFSAssets are the cryptocurrency assets (BTC and BitAssets) that are being held by the centralized exchanges. Some of the value of CFSAssets and all of the value of CFSCOIN comes from speculation of future profits which could in theory continue without current employees if the operation was sufficiently decentralized and the BTC and BitAssets were secure.
If your future operations only consisted of market making on the BitShares blockchain, then you could (in future versions of BitShares) likely decentralize control of the BitAssets and Gateway-IOUs to smart contracts that respect the wishes of the CFSAsset and CFSCOIN stakeholders. You would still have multisig managers (likely threshold signatures for maximum decentralization to transaction size ratio) controlling the movement of those funds and placing/canceling the bid and ask orders. You would want to also hedge against volatility of any of the gateway assets (like GATEBTC, where the BTC reserves can itself be controlled in a reasonably decentralized way using multisig and/or threshold signatures) using shorts (collateralized by BitAssets) on the BitShares blockchain, where those short positions were also ultimately controlled by smart contracts (again this is a far off future version of BitShares I am talking about). You would have multisig managers controlling these assets and positions regularly (with certain programmed limits, like restricting how much money can be transferred to addresses/balances not controlled by the smart contract within a certain time window without explicit stakeholder approval, and restricting the prices allowed for the bid/ask orders within some percentage range of the price feed), but the managers or a quorum of the stakeholders could always revoke the control of the current managers if it became necessary. Then in those cases the stakeholders could find another group of managers to resume operations and elect if they can reach consensus on that slate with the necessary quorum of stakeholders.
But as long as you need to keep the cryptocurrency that you are doing market making with on a centralized exchange (which you will need to do for quite a while), that becomes a weak chain in the link in which authorities could seize those assets for whatever reason.
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Can you elaborate more on those 'buy & burn bots'? I do not remember anything about them in your previous papers. I guess they are kind of like the buy-back that Play DAC uses for their artists shares. But that is just a guess.
bts: jshow
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"(since most people understand that a coin does not confer any legal rights or responsibilities)."
This is not a true statement. Crypto currency is considered property. People have the right of ownership which is a legal right :P It is also a tax liability which is a responsibility :)
You also need to be very careful with the words you use. If ownership of a coin is supposed to represent ownership in a company similar to a share/security then it will be treated legally that way implicitly. Doesn't matter if there is a document or not. Really, it is worse if you don't have documents because a malicisous person could utilize this fact to black mail you.
All of this is assuming that CFS is a legal entity. (LLC/s-corp/c-corp/ect...) If it only exists in crypto technology and not on a document then I'm not sure how it will be treated since it isn't a legal company. I got road blocked on this when trying to utilize bitshares for Real Estate. A crypto company does not have the ability to own real property. (real property = real estate) There is too much red tape for a small timer like me to use bitshares for a legal company that can own real property.
I'm glad to get some input on this.
Cryptohedge is a DAC and will only ever exist on the bitshares blockchain and owning CFSCOIN does not give you anything other than owning CFSCOIN. For now, CFSCOIN is backed purely by the reputation of Riverhead and me (i.e. it will have value to people who believe we are going to do with it what we have said we plan to do with it).
My vision for how it will end up in its final decentralized "true DAC state" is where the only way it can interface with the real world is through contract-free compensation of employees (delegate style), and reputation based custodianship of client funds. The idea is to create a web of trust that starts out with me and riverhead and expands to include more employees, and could eventually potentially include trusted anonymous employees (trustable, yet untargetable by LE). The DAC should ultimately be 100% controlled by voting done by CFSCOIN holders, and the counterparty exposure that CFSGOLD and other assets get should be moved from Riverhead and me onto the CFSCOIN voters as a whole (through voting controlled smart contracts somehow :P).
You are safe for now. If bitshares fulfills what it says it wants to then this will change. You'll have to adapt. I would not be surprised if the SEC considered the act of holding shares and having decision making power makes the property a security and the investors limited partners. Although it would not be a documented company it could be seen legally as acting like one which would put it in SEC court.
Again, you are probably safe for now, BUT I would advise that you save back for a good lawyer.
Yeah, I agree that it's pretty certain that I, personally, will be targeted for illegal fundraising eventually, no matter how much I insist on it being "contract free" or "just a coin". But that will only happen if BTS gets big enough to get noticed and in that case I should be able to afford whatever fine I'm given :P
The most important thing is that people who buy our UIA's should not be at any risk of getting their funds seized if me or someone else gets targeted.
It'd be more than a fine. Do you have a good lawyer already?
I have, but I have not done any legal consulting regarding issuing cryptocurrency tokens (and doubt I would get much out of it). I think you are assuming I live in the US. Luckily my jurisdiction is Denmark, where laws on finance and especially cryptocurrency are much more lenient. We don't even have to pay any taxes on any cryptocurrency gains! (and taxes are insane in denmark otherwise). Also we have a partially state owned bitcoin exchange :P
I was assuming. Silly me.
Crypto as a payment for services in US is considered a barter. Barter taxes apply. If you hire somebody in US then you'll need to get more details on how that affects you and the employee.
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Cool!
BTS: clayop
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nice work.
BTS: lisa86
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bts: huge
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Can you elaborate more on those 'buy & burn bots'? I do not remember anything about them in your previous papers. I guess they are kind of like the buy-back that Play DAC uses for their artists shares. But that is just a guess.
bts: jshow
Well, I haven't really fully thought it through yet. But I think the best way to steadily increase the price of CFSCOIN through the income from the market making operations, will be to have a market making bot that basically does regular market making of CFSCOIN/USD, but then burns 5% of all CFSCOIN it holds every 24 hours. This would slowly reduce the supply of CFSCOIN while ensuring the bot only buys it at favorable prices, hopefully creating a relatively steady price increase/return over time for CFSCOIN.
It also occured to me that the entirety of the 30% from CFS assets could be used only to prop up the CFSCOIN market, and then all salary and payments could be done by inflating new CFSCOIN rather than using income. This could perhaps help with decentralization since the rights to inflate can be easier to control through voting.
The most important thing is that people who buy our UIA's should not be at any risk of getting their funds seized if me or someone else gets targeted.
This is going to be difficult to manage considering your operations consist of doing market making on outside exchanges. It is one thing to use multisig to protect the UIA issuer/manager from dumping a bunch of newly issued CFSAssets or CFSCOIN, but the thing that provides most of the value to CFSAssets are the cryptocurrency assets (BTC and BitAssets) that are being held by the centralized exchanges. Some of the value of CFSAssets and all of the value of CFSCOIN comes from speculation of future profits which could in theory continue without current employees if the operation was sufficiently decentralized and the BTC and BitAssets were secure.
If your future operations only consisted of market making on the BitShares blockchain, then you could (in future versions of BitShares) likely decentralize control of the BitAssets and Gateway-IOUs to smart contracts that respect the wishes of the CFSAsset and CFSCOIN stakeholders. You would still have multisig managers (likely threshold signatures for maximum decentralization to transaction size ratio) controlling the movement of those funds and placing/canceling the bid and ask orders. You would want to also hedge against volatility of any of the gateway assets (like GATEBTC, where the BTC reserves can itself be controlled in a reasonably decentralized way using multisig and/or threshold signatures) using shorts (collateralized by BitAssets) on the BitShares blockchain, where those short positions were also ultimately controlled by smart contracts (again this is a far off future version of BitShares I am talking about). You would have multisig managers controlling these assets and positions regularly (with certain programmed limits, like restricting how much money can be transferred to addresses/balances not controlled by the smart contract within a certain time window without explicit stakeholder approval, and restricting the prices allowed for the bid/ask orders within some percentage range of the price feed), but the managers or a quorum of the stakeholders could always revoke the control of the current managers if it became necessary. Then in those cases the stakeholders could find another group of managers to resume operations and elect if they can reach consensus on that slate with the necessary quorum of stakeholders.
But as long as you need to keep the cryptocurrency that you are doing market making with on a centralized exchange (which you will need to do for quite a while), that becomes a weak chain in the link in which authorities could seize those assets for whatever reason.
The counterparty risk from custodians will never disappear, however I hope it will be possible to have custodians be anonymous, yet trusted, so they can hold customer funds and trade them on centralized exchanges but cannot be targeted for seizure, or can even be detected by the exchange itself as anything other than private traders, even if CFS is declared illegal. The biggest issue with this (in addition to the anonymous trust) is that we won't be able to utilize Cryptohedge market maker discounts for the anonymous custodians, and those market maker discounts are a major part of the business model.
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thanks!
Excited to see where this goes 8)
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bts: pseudoscops
Thanks Rune!
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bts: beyondbitcoin
Good stuff.
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<----- bts:cass
Thx
:)
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Gentso
of course :)
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Bts: lafona
Excited to learn more.
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hmm.. don't know much about CFSCOIN though, time to learn then ::)
bts: bobohuy
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appreciate the offer
BTS chiveon
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bts: bytes
Thanks :)
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bts id:ags
thank you
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bts: metalallen
+5%
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BTS ID: heyd
Thanks
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bear
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BTS: nomoreheroes7
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BTS: radi
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Give me some sugar 8)
BTS: abelljefrry
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BTS: Lorenzo
Thanks
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BTS: trev
Cheers!
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BTS:lzr
thanks
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BTS:wildpig
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bts: bitcube
Nice. :)
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bts: asabovesobelow
Many thanks for the offer, best wishes!
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bts id: hightower
Thank you!
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if you have some left please consider also tipping me: bts://xeroc/
Thanks!
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bts : inarizushi
Thanks for the great job, it's heart warming to see a project taking off :)
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bts:pmc
thanks!
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bts: ihashfury
Thank you :D
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bts: liondani
+5% very excited as always :)
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bts: jwiz168
Thanks keep it up.
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bts: edilliam
Thanks guys :D
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Bts: triox
I don't understand this fully, but it has the pretense of being exciting which is all we can ask for in crypto at this point...
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BTS: mf-tzo +5%
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Best of luck
BTS: bitsharesblog
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This looks exciting +5%
BTS: d4vegee
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bts id: benjojo
thanx Rune & Riverhead! Sounds awesome..... +5%
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bts: sschechter
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bts: delulo
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BTS - azuos
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BTS: mira
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BTS: rba
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aktivity is always good for us!
Good luck with your project!
bts: shentist
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Received 100 cfscoin, thank you! :)
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BTS: fallout-complex
I'm cheering for you guys to make this awesome!
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Nice that I'm early here. When sharedrop on CFSGLOD will happen?
BTS: pal
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BTS: esb
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Exciting - Can't wait to see this!
BTS: cryptoprometheus
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BTS: bfalther
Nice work Rune and Riverhead!! Can't wait to actually catch up on what you guys are doing :D
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BTS: emailtooaj
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Bts: ned
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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BTS: starspirit
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bts: matias
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bts: betaxtrade
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To understand the idea of how big this could become here is a blurb out of this article http://thevalueswan.com/cryptohedge-io-cfsassets-cfsgold-market-making-bots-20-to-50-yearly-return-maybe-black-swan-proof-maybe/ (http://thevalueswan.com/cryptohedge-io-cfsassets-cfsgold-market-making-bots-20-to-50-yearly-return-maybe-black-swan-proof-maybe/)
How good can these bot/arbitrage mechanisms be in terms of profitability? Well basically the best market making or arbitrage firm in the world which uses the power of mathematics and physics is https://www.rentec.com/Home.action?index=true . The guy that started it James Simon is worth $14 billion dollars and is known as the “Quant King,” he really is. wWith returns after commissions over 35% – 40% a year meaning hes making 45% – 55% a year. It is true he is not just an arbitrager and that he uses the power of his mathematics University Ph.D teaching degree as well as trend following, special situations, and most likely high frequency trading (he is most likely doing this in his alphabet soup of technique.)
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BTS: zebulon
Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2
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bts: xaero1
Thanks..
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I will send out the giveaway once per day,...
Hey Rune,
Not seeing anything yet... ?
Following with interest.
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better late than never.
ID: xiaoshan
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nice!
bts account: oldutiao
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I'm having some trouble getting the client to work, so I haven't been able to send out many of the coins yet. Will send them out as soon as its up and running :)
Edit: Sent out to everyone now
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Hey thanks guys!
BTS: turkeyleg
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Thank you.
bts: hpenvy2
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Hey I'm always late.. This still going on? If so... :)
BTS: meriver