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Quote from: bytemaster on August 26, 2014, 12:32:00 amTaxes, privacy, no need to trust external exchange with your funds.Legally I believe that every time you buy an asset you pay taxes.. so you should be paying taxes every time you buy/sell BitUSD.Quote from: TheOnion on August 26, 2014, 12:44:35 amQuote from: bytemaster on August 26, 2014, 12:29:40 amThere is a market for BitUSD / USD on Bter.... so you know you can cash out if you want to.https://bter.com/trade/bitusd_usdOMG THIS IS EPIC! Nice.. the price of BitUSD is almost $2? haha
Taxes, privacy, no need to trust external exchange with your funds.
Quote from: bytemaster on August 26, 2014, 12:29:40 amThere is a market for BitUSD / USD on Bter.... so you know you can cash out if you want to.https://bter.com/trade/bitusd_usdOMG THIS IS EPIC!
There is a market for BitUSD / USD on Bter.... so you know you can cash out if you want to.https://bter.com/trade/bitusd_usd
Quote from: toast on August 26, 2014, 12:26:17 amQuote from: nakaone on August 26, 2014, 12:24:31 ammaybe I do not get it properly but it is worth a question:starting point:I think the current price of BitsharesX is for some reason high/sufficiently high and I am planning to shortassumptions:I have the possibility to sell bitsharesX on an exchange for USDI have the possibility to ask BitUsd for BitsharesX on the decentralized exchange within the systemMy preference order at this point of time is for obvious reasons USD > BitUSD - acceptance, possibility to buy/sell other coins, etc pp. ( I see that this could potentially change in the future but I think at this point of time this is a rational assumption)question:what is the incentive to ask bitusd if the possibility to sell on an exchange exists at this point of timeNo incentive, feel free to sell BTSX externally.is there another reason to ask on the decentralized exchange than to expect decreasing external prices of bitsharesX?my question was by no means meant confrontative - I am just wondering why the ask side should work - e.g. what the incentive for asking is
Quote from: nakaone on August 26, 2014, 12:24:31 ammaybe I do not get it properly but it is worth a question:starting point:I think the current price of BitsharesX is for some reason high/sufficiently high and I am planning to shortassumptions:I have the possibility to sell bitsharesX on an exchange for USDI have the possibility to ask BitUsd for BitsharesX on the decentralized exchange within the systemMy preference order at this point of time is for obvious reasons USD > BitUSD - acceptance, possibility to buy/sell other coins, etc pp. ( I see that this could potentially change in the future but I think at this point of time this is a rational assumption)question:what is the incentive to ask bitusd if the possibility to sell on an exchange exists at this point of timeNo incentive, feel free to sell BTSX externally.
maybe I do not get it properly but it is worth a question:starting point:I think the current price of BitsharesX is for some reason high/sufficiently high and I am planning to shortassumptions:I have the possibility to sell bitsharesX on an exchange for USDI have the possibility to ask BitUsd for BitsharesX on the decentralized exchange within the systemMy preference order at this point of time is for obvious reasons USD > BitUSD - acceptance, possibility to buy/sell other coins, etc pp. ( I see that this could potentially change in the future but I think at this point of time this is a rational assumption)question:what is the incentive to ask bitusd if the possibility to sell on an exchange exists at this point of time
Quote from: hughmanwho on August 25, 2014, 08:51:34 pmSo here's the idea, similar to how BitUSD works, why not create another asset that constantly increases in value relative to itself.Let's call it BitDouble. For example, marketpeg it so that today it's value is 1 BTSX which is , then have the market agree that every year it's value goes up by 100%. So next year, it's worth 2 BTSX, following year it's worth 4 BTSX, 8 BTSX, 16 BTSX, etc.At any point in time, anyone can buy into BitDouble and be guaranteed to double their money one year from now.Or for that matter.. BitTriple or BitQuadraple would be pretty awesome investments.If market pegging to USD works.. I don't see any reason this one wouldn't, right? Same idea, have the market arbitrarily decide on a floating value at a certain point in time.Just discovered how to make sure everyone in the world gets rich!That is actually the idea behind the interest on BitAssets thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6964.0The short answer for your case: Nobody will be willing to short!
So here's the idea, similar to how BitUSD works, why not create another asset that constantly increases in value relative to itself.Let's call it BitDouble. For example, marketpeg it so that today it's value is 1 BTSX which is , then have the market agree that every year it's value goes up by 100%. So next year, it's worth 2 BTSX, following year it's worth 4 BTSX, 8 BTSX, 16 BTSX, etc.At any point in time, anyone can buy into BitDouble and be guaranteed to double their money one year from now.Or for that matter.. BitTriple or BitQuadraple would be pretty awesome investments.If market pegging to USD works.. I don't see any reason this one wouldn't, right? Same idea, have the market arbitrarily decide on a floating value at a certain point in time.Just discovered how to make sure everyone in the world gets rich!
Quote from: merockstar on August 24, 2014, 02:35:15 amThe person shorting bitUSD into the system creates it when they short, but that person doesn't get the bitUSD, the system matches it up with somebody else who wants to buy it, and the person shorting gets the btsx from selling it (which they can use to later buy bitUSD for less btsx to cover their short, and get their collateral back).That makes a little bit more sense. Well, I guess we'll see what happens.
The person shorting bitUSD into the system creates it when they short, but that person doesn't get the bitUSD, the system matches it up with somebody else who wants to buy it, and the person shorting gets the btsx from selling it (which they can use to later buy bitUSD for less btsx to cover their short, and get their collateral back).
Quote from: TheOnion on August 23, 2014, 10:31:20 pmQuote from: hughmanwho on August 23, 2014, 10:29:39 pmQuote from: toast on August 23, 2014, 10:26:55 pmYou can't short BTSX to buy BitUSD, only the other way around. Buyers of BitUSD are only people that think it will work and would prefer exposure to BitUSD over exposure to BTSX, whether it is because they are short BTSX (but not actually shorting on collateral since you can't do that) or because they want stability.So maybe I'm misunderstanding, how do you get BitUSD in the first place.. you have to purchase it using BTSX or short BitUSD in terms of BTSX, right?You just buy the for whatever - USD, BTC or at the BTSX exchange for BTSX.(they start at that exchange initially if that is the question)Wait.. I thought the whole way that BitUSD is introduced into the system is by shorting BTSX for USD?Back to the original reason I posted this, how does the initial distribution of BitUSD work?
Quote from: hughmanwho on August 23, 2014, 10:29:39 pmQuote from: toast on August 23, 2014, 10:26:55 pmYou can't short BTSX to buy BitUSD, only the other way around. Buyers of BitUSD are only people that think it will work and would prefer exposure to BitUSD over exposure to BTSX, whether it is because they are short BTSX (but not actually shorting on collateral since you can't do that) or because they want stability.So maybe I'm misunderstanding, how do you get BitUSD in the first place.. you have to purchase it using BTSX or short BitUSD in terms of BTSX, right?You just buy the for whatever - USD, BTC or at the BTSX exchange for BTSX.(they start at that exchange initially if that is the question)
Quote from: toast on August 23, 2014, 10:26:55 pmYou can't short BTSX to buy BitUSD, only the other way around. Buyers of BitUSD are only people that think it will work and would prefer exposure to BitUSD over exposure to BTSX, whether it is because they are short BTSX (but not actually shorting on collateral since you can't do that) or because they want stability.So maybe I'm misunderstanding, how do you get BitUSD in the first place.. you have to purchase it using BTSX or short BitUSD in terms of BTSX, right?
You can't short BTSX to buy BitUSD, only the other way around. Buyers of BitUSD are only people that think it will work and would prefer exposure to BitUSD over exposure to BTSX, whether it is because they are short BTSX (but not actually shorting on collateral since you can't do that) or because they want stability.
Quote from: toast on August 23, 2014, 09:30:29 pmQuote from: hughmanwho on August 23, 2014, 09:03:23 pmAs a prediction market.. maybe it's worth something if enough people all decide to agree it's worth 1 USD.. I'm skeptical though.That's the point though. The only people who matter for deciding its price are the shorts who are already in the system, wants BTSX to go up, and agree with each to value it at 1 USD. Everyone else is just along for the ride.Well... it you are shorting BTSX to buy BitUSD.. then you would only do that if you believe that BTSX will go down relative to USD... which I didn't even think of before but that might cause a volume problem. Because if you don't believe in BTSX.. you aren't going to buy BTSX in the first place, meaning you won't then proceed to buy BitUSD.
Quote from: hughmanwho on August 23, 2014, 09:03:23 pmAs a prediction market.. maybe it's worth something if enough people all decide to agree it's worth 1 USD.. I'm skeptical though.That's the point though. The only people who matter for deciding its price are the shorts who are already in the system, wants BTSX to go up, and agree with each to value it at 1 USD. Everyone else is just along for the ride.
As a prediction market.. maybe it's worth something if enough people all decide to agree it's worth 1 USD.. I'm skeptical though.
Quote from: toast on August 23, 2014, 08:44:23 pm@hughmanwho I don't see how you say a cryptocurrency can have value in and of itself but then also say that it can't be used as backing collateral for a prediction market because it is like making value out of nothingIt's different, BTC, Nxt, BTS to some extend, are currencies themselves. Let me put it this way, theoretically BitUSD will have some value if enough people decide to pay the same amount for it as they will for USD.. odds are that most people won't be willing to do that. Afterall, you can't buy anything with BitUSD, you can with USD. Therefore USD clearly has more value for years to come. As a prediction market.. maybe it's worth something if enough people all decide to agree it's worth 1 USD.. I'm skeptical though.And just to be clear, to some extent, I'm playing devil's advocate here. Once the current bubble pops, I may buy some BTS myself, but in my mind, clearly there are issues with BitUSD.
@hughmanwho I don't see how you say a cryptocurrency can have value in and of itself but then also say that it can't be used as backing collateral for a prediction market because it is like making value out of nothing
Hi hughmanwho You of all people should know what are the risk when a central entity is holding the money, right?Do not worry too much - this is just a theory. You do not have to 'believe' in it. After all people still refuse to believe in certain theories and instead believe that god created man out of mud.BTW, there are better solutions before defaulting to 'trusting somebody with the money'. Just so you know.
Let's take Google. The share price of Google is supposed to be their book value plus some fudging for revenue, growth potential, etc. It's why share-price/book is a key stat that tries to guess how much intangible value pushing the price above or below book is correct.
So.. I'm very skeptical about BitUSD, BitGLD, etc.How is the initial distribution of BitUSD going to occur? Also, is there a fixed supply? If so then is supply and demand forced to match price?Too much demand and price goes higher than USD/BTS price, and people start dumping?
Quote from: xeroc on August 22, 2014, 08:44:06 amno backing .. just pegging .. you can also called it a consensus that a bitUSD is worth a USD .. basically the engine (market) honor those that trade towards the consensus .. thats it .. feedback loop keeps the bitUSD where it belongs .. to 1USD ... or close to (that's the experiment)It's worth experimenting I guess.. I sort of see it similar to the USD going off the gold standard but still claiming it is.. I definitely feel like it's valuable will never be worth 1 USD, because clearly USD is worth more..idk, I'm not going to touch it for a year or so.. if it stabilizes, awesome!
no backing .. just pegging .. you can also called it a consensus that a bitUSD is worth a USD .. basically the engine (market) honor those that trade towards the consensus .. thats it .. feedback loop keeps the bitUSD where it belongs .. to 1USD ... or close to (that's the experiment)
It's worth experimenting I guess.. I sort of see it similar to the USD going off the gold standard but still claiming it is.. I definitely feel like it's valuable will never be worth 1 USD, because clearly USD is worth more..idk, I'm not going to touch it for a year or so.. if it stabilizes, awesome!
Quote from: unsoindovo on August 22, 2014, 10:47:19 amQuote from: xeroc on August 22, 2014, 10:03:55 amThat snapshots will be taken from btsx ..perfect!!!thank you for confirm it...no ETA yet for snapshot date?Snapshots will be in future for different economics approaches etc, but in general it will just be Bitshares X from here forward.
Quote from: xeroc on August 22, 2014, 10:03:55 amThat snapshots will be taken from btsx ..perfect!!!thank you for confirm it...no ETA yet for snapshot date?
That snapshots will be taken from btsx ..
I've seen this one: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Market_PegI did like BTS's idea for shorting assets though: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=bitshares_-_market_peggingThe basic idea though is that we are just creating an asset out of thin air though and whether it's shorting or buying or selling or whatever.. we're just saying, why don't we all agree that's equal to a dollar? But it's not actually backed by any dollars..