BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: bitcrab on November 27, 2018, 06:14:52 am
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frankly speaking, bitCNY is already in black swan status if the feed price reflect the real market price.
however, I don't think it's good to return to feed real market price and leave black swan happen for bitCNY, as we have seen in bitUSD, after black swan happened, now the peg break, borrowing stop, hard to revive.
I suggest to protect bitCNY from black swan by setting a black swan protection price, say black swan protection price = global settlement price*1.11.
feed price = max(market price, black swan protection price)
then when market price goes up, the margin called orders will be eaten step by step, the black swan protection price become lower and lower, and bitCNY has chance to revive.
Thoughts?
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agree
for all the bitCNY holders, 1 bitCNY can't buy more BTS than at GS price if black swan happen,
so there are almost no lost to help eatern the margin call orders nearby GS price.
so please help eatern the margin call orders when the witness give the reasonable margin call price.
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Agree
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同意
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Agree
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agree，maybe 1.12 more better
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Disagree.
Increase MSSR to 30% (1.3) so that the margins are eaten.
We need a robust system that will work in the future. This stop gap doesn't do anything to improve the system it just breaks the promise of it.
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are you witness still talk at small group?
please stop private talk, and unvote those witness never attend the public discuss.
there are many order filled at about 0.317CNY now, when will you sell the margin call order at 0.322CNY?
it will be more harder to revive CNY with these slow action.
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so slow action，so much time has gone...
when we have time and chance to revive bitusd, but less witness care....
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frankly speaking, bitCNY is already in black swan status if the feed price reflect the real market price.
however, I don't think it's good to return to feed real market price and leave black swan happen for bitCNY, as we have seen in bitUSD, after black swan happened, now the peg break, borrowing stop, hard to revive.
I suggest to protect bitCNY from black swan by setting a black swan protection price, say black swan protection price = global settlement price*1.11.
feed price = max(market price, black swan protection price)
then when market price goes up, the margin called orders will be eaten step by step, the black swan protection price become lower and lower, and bitCNY has chance to revive.
Thoughts?
In any market you can't never be sure of anything, if the price never goes back bitCNY loses forever its PEG
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Reduce MSSR to 0.01%, reduce pricefeed to CR=1.01, offset=0%. Else - all you write - big scam for bitCNY holders
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frankly speaking, bitCNY is already in black swan status if the feed price reflect the real market price.
however, I don't think it's good to return to feed real market price and leave black swan happen for bitCNY, as we have seen in bitUSD, after black swan happened, now the peg break, borrowing stop, hard to revive.
I suggest to protect bitCNY from black swan by setting a black swan protection price, say black swan protection price = global settlement price*1.11.
feed price = max(market price, black swan protection price)
then when market price goes up, the margin called orders will be eaten step by step, the black swan protection price become lower and lower, and bitCNY has chance to revive.
Thoughts?
In any market you can't never be sure of anything, if the price never goes back bitCNY loses forever its PEG
Yeah, following BSIP18's bitasset revive process, bitCNY would automatically revive once the settlement fund value increases https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/blob/master/bsip-0018.md#auto-revive-after-increase-of-settlement-fund-value
With bitUSD's GS, vote weight slightly changed because the BTS is in the settlement pool which doesn't have voting rights. If bitCNY globally settles, perhaps there will be a larger shift in voting power which impedes experimental changes to bitassets?
There's some interesting threads:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27459.0
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27451.0;all
Disagree.
Increase MSSR to 30% (1.3) so that the margins are eaten.
We need a robust system that will work in the future. This stop gap doesn't do anything to improve the system it just breaks the promise of it.
30% would be highly attractive given recent crypto volatility, better to punish under collateralized positions than to punish everyone (all margin positions) for 1 bad-debt holder's behaviour.
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Disagree.
Increase MSSR to 30% (1.3) so that the margins are eaten.
We need a robust system that will work in the future. This stop gap doesn't do anything to improve the system it just breaks the promise of it.
When there is a debt position with 112% collateral ratio, Increasing MSSR to 112% or more will trigger GS immediately.
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Yes I had it explained to me today that MSSR increases GS price - hadn't realised that.
I think Alex has put forward the best option so far removed: dynamic MSSR.
Doesn't really help us here though. I still disagree with the proposal though - it is again just betting on the price going up and abandoning how the asset is meant to work.
Disagree.
Increase MSSR to 30% (1.3) so that the margins are eaten.
We need a robust system that will work in the future. This stop gap doesn't do anything to improve the system it just breaks the promise of it.
When there is a debt position with 112% collateral ratio, Increasing MSSR to 112% or more will trigger GS immediately.
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Yes I had it explained to me today that MSSR increases GS price - hadn't realised that.
I think Alex has put forward the best option so far removed: dynamic MSSR.
Doesn't really help us here though. I still disagree with the proposal though - it is again just betting on the price going up and abandoning how the asset is meant to work.
Unfortunately the asset doesn't work as some people think. Think about the impossible trinity.
When we're trying to make the asset fully backed, we're trying to control the amount of supply, which is monetary policy, the peg can not stand.
If the asset is not fully backed, likely the peg can not stand as well.
Recent thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27203.msg322852#msg322852
Old thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11946.0
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When there is a debt position with 112% collateral ratio, Increasing MSSR to 112% or more will trigger GS immediately.
Why did you guys waited so long ?People asked for it for a long time and just once its not possible anymore you guys start replying ?
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positive feedback appear again.
margin called order eaten -> global settlement price come down-> feed price come down->more debt position margin called.
in several hours the margin called orders quantity changed from 70M+ to 90M+. and bitCNY become in premium again.
will it be better to set feed price = max(market price*MSSR, black swan protection price)?
-
positive feedback appear again.
margin called order eaten -> global settlement price come down-> feed price come down->more debt position margin called.
in several hours the margin called orders quantity changed from 70M+ to 90M+. and bitCNY become in premium again.
will it be better to set feed price = max(market price*MSSR, black swan protection price)?
it's just another UI bug when you saw the quantity changed from 70M to 90M
And we don't need to change feed price to market price * MSSR, instead it should be the commiittee's authority to tune the MSSR from 10% to 1% or something else to reduce the premium,
but still need to give some premium offter others help eatern the margin call orders.
-
positive feedback appear again.
margin called order eaten -> global settlement price come down-> feed price come down->more debt position margin called.
in several hours the margin called orders quantity changed from 70M+ to 90M+. and bitCNY become in premium again.
will it be better to set feed price = max(market price*MSSR, black swan protection price)?
it's just another UI bug when you saw the quantity changed from 70M to 90M
And we don't need to change feed price to market price * MSSR, instead it should be the commiittee's authority to tune the MSSR from 10% to 1% or something else to reduce the premium,
but still need to give some premium offter others help eatern the margin call orders.
just urgent solution, possible to tune MSSR when things are stable and enough time to discuss/coordinate.
-
positive feedback appear again.
margin called order eaten -> global settlement price come down-> feed price come down->more debt position margin called.
in several hours the margin called orders quantity changed from 70M+ to 90M+. and bitCNY become in premium again.
will it be better to set feed price = max(market price*MSSR, black swan protection price)?
it's just another UI bug when you saw the quantity changed from 70M to 90M
And we don't need to change feed price to market price * MSSR, instead it should be the commiittee's authority to tune the MSSR from 10% to 1% or something else to reduce the premium,
but still need to give some premium offter others help eatern the margin call orders.
https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/96
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again???
witness want to sell margin call orders at price 0.34 while market price at 0.332,
what's the problem with these witnesses?
please vote out.
发布人 清算价
( bitCNY/BTS) 手续费汇率
( bitCNY/BTS) 维持抵押率 强制平仓比例上限 发布时间
roelandp 0.3748 0.4498 1.75 1.1 9秒钟前
crazybit 0.3734 0.4668 1.75 1.1 12秒钟前
elmato 0.3743 0.4492 1.75 1.1 18秒钟前
gdex-witness 0.4238 0.5080 1.75 1.1 48秒钟前
witness.still 0.3757 0.4697 1.75 1.1 2分钟前
abc123 0.3754 0.4693 1.75 1.1 2分钟前
witness.hiblockchain 0.3734 0.4481 1.75 1.1 3分钟前
btspp-witness 0.3733 0.4483 1.75 1.1 3分钟前
openledger-dc 0.3734 0.3972 1.75 1.1 4分钟前
xman 0.3753 0.4634 1.75 1.1 4分钟前
delegate-zhaomu 0.3733 0.4479 1.75 1.1 5分钟前
blckchnd 0.3303 0.3468 1.75 1.1 5分钟前
magicwallet.witness 0.3736 0.4483 1.75 1.1 5分钟前
bangzi 0.3766 0.4707 1.75 1.1 6分钟前
bhuz 0.3716 0.3911 1.75 1.1 10分钟前
in.abit 0.3742 0.4797 1.75 1.1 12分钟前
witness.yao 0.3732 0.4478 1.75 1.1 13分钟前
xn-delegate 0.3737 0.4485 1.75 1.1 21分钟前
sahkan-bitshares 0.3743 0.4491 1.75 1.1 25分钟前
fox 0.3728 0.4474 1.75 1.1 45分钟前
zapata42-witness 0.3726 0.4471 1.75 1.1 1小时前
xeldal 0.3709 0.4451 1.75 1.1 1小时前
delegate.freedom 0.3699 0.4624 1.75 1.1 4小时前
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magicwallet-team is modifying the script...Will be finished tomorrow.
Will use this solution: feed price = max(market price, black swan protection price)
again???
witness want to sell margin call orders at price 0.34 while market price at 0.332,
what's the problem with these witnesses?
please vote out.
发布人 清算价
( bitCNY/BTS) 手续费汇率
( bitCNY/BTS) 维持抵押率 强制平仓比例上限 发布时间
roelandp 0.3748 0.4498 1.75 1.1 9秒钟前
crazybit 0.3734 0.4668 1.75 1.1 12秒钟前
elmato 0.3743 0.4492 1.75 1.1 18秒钟前
gdex-witness 0.4238 0.5080 1.75 1.1 48秒钟前
witness.still 0.3757 0.4697 1.75 1.1 2分钟前
abc123 0.3754 0.4693 1.75 1.1 2分钟前
witness.hiblockchain 0.3734 0.4481 1.75 1.1 3分钟前
btspp-witness 0.3733 0.4483 1.75 1.1 3分钟前
openledger-dc 0.3734 0.3972 1.75 1.1 4分钟前
xman 0.3753 0.4634 1.75 1.1 4分钟前
delegate-zhaomu 0.3733 0.4479 1.75 1.1 5分钟前
blckchnd 0.3303 0.3468 1.75 1.1 5分钟前
magicwallet.witness 0.3736 0.4483 1.75 1.1 5分钟前
bangzi 0.3766 0.4707 1.75 1.1 6分钟前
bhuz 0.3716 0.3911 1.75 1.1 10分钟前
in.abit 0.3742 0.4797 1.75 1.1 12分钟前
witness.yao 0.3732 0.4478 1.75 1.1 13分钟前
xn-delegate 0.3737 0.4485 1.75 1.1 21分钟前
sahkan-bitshares 0.3743 0.4491 1.75 1.1 25分钟前
fox 0.3728 0.4474 1.75 1.1 45分钟前
zapata42-witness 0.3726 0.4471 1.75 1.1 1小时前
xeldal 0.3709 0.4451 1.75 1.1 1小时前
delegate.freedom 0.3699 0.4624 1.75 1.1 4小时前
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positive feedback appear again.
margin called order eaten -> global settlement price come down-> feed price come down->more debt position margin called.
in several hours the margin called orders quantity changed from 70M+ to 90M+. and bitCNY become in premium again.
will it be better to set feed price = max(market price*MSSR, black swan protection price)?
it's just another UI bug when you saw the quantity changed from 70M to 90M
And we don't need to change feed price to market price * MSSR, instead it should be the commiittee's authority to tune the MSSR from 10% to 1% or something else to reduce the premium,
but still need to give some premium offter others help eatern the margin call orders.
MSSR is a price feed parameter which can only be adjusted by witnesses, not the committee.
By the way, the "NO adjust" worker now has more votes than the "adjust" worker, according to the BSIP document, witnesses should not feed adjusted price right now.
-
positive feedback appear again.
margin called order eaten -> global settlement price come down-> feed price come down->more debt position margin called.
in several hours the margin called orders quantity changed from 70M+ to 90M+. and bitCNY become in premium again.
will it be better to set feed price = max(market price*MSSR, black swan protection price)?
it's just another UI bug when you saw the quantity changed from 70M to 90M
And we don't need to change feed price to market price * MSSR, instead it should be the commiittee's authority to tune the MSSR from 10% to 1% or something else to reduce the premium,
but still need to give some premium offter others help eatern the margin call orders.
MSSR is a price feed parameter which can only be adjusted by witnesses, not the committee.
By the way, the "NO adjust" worker has more votes than the "adjust" worker, according to the BSIP document, witnesses should not feed adjusted price right now.
No adjustment is pretty much instant GS no ?
-
positive feedback appear again.
margin called order eaten -> global settlement price come down-> feed price come down->more debt position margin called.
in several hours the margin called orders quantity changed from 70M+ to 90M+. and bitCNY become in premium again.
will it be better to set feed price = max(market price*MSSR, black swan protection price)?
it's just another UI bug when you saw the quantity changed from 70M to 90M
And we don't need to change feed price to market price * MSSR, instead it should be the commiittee's authority to tune the MSSR from 10% to 1% or something else to reduce the premium,
but still need to give some premium offter others help eatern the margin call orders.
MSSR is a price feed parameter which can only be adjusted by witnesses, not the committee.
By the way, the "NO adjust" worker has more votes than the "adjust" worker, according to the BSIP document, witnesses should not feed adjusted price right now.
No adjustment is pretty much instant GS no ?
It's very close to GS, but not yet.
-
positive feedback appear again.
margin called order eaten -> global settlement price come down-> feed price come down->more debt position margin called.
in several hours the margin called orders quantity changed from 70M+ to 90M+. and bitCNY become in premium again.
will it be better to set feed price = max(market price*MSSR, black swan protection price)?
it's just another UI bug when you saw the quantity changed from 70M to 90M
And we don't need to change feed price to market price * MSSR, instead it should be the commiittee's authority to tune the MSSR from 10% to 1% or something else to reduce the premium,
but still need to give some premium offter others help eatern the margin call orders.
MSSR is a price feed parameter which can only be adjusted by witnesses, not the committee.
By the way, the "NO adjust" worker has more votes than the "adjust" worker, according to the BSIP document, witnesses should not feed adjusted price right now.
I known MSSR is a parameter of feed price, but it's not decide by the witness. witness just execute it.
witness known nothing about the trade.
it's already a difficult task for them to give the real market price.
-
positive feedback appear again.
margin called order eaten -> global settlement price come down-> feed price come down->more debt position margin called.
in several hours the margin called orders quantity changed from 70M+ to 90M+. and bitCNY become in premium again.
will it be better to set feed price = max(market price*MSSR, black swan protection price)?
it's just another UI bug when you saw the quantity changed from 70M to 90M
And we don't need to change feed price to market price * MSSR, instead it should be the commiittee's authority to tune the MSSR from 10% to 1% or something else to reduce the premium,
but still need to give some premium offter others help eatern the margin call orders.
MSSR is a price feed parameter which can only be adjusted by witnesses, not the committee.
By the way, the "NO adjust" worker has more votes than the "adjust" worker, according to the BSIP document, witnesses should not feed adjusted price right now.
I known MSSR is a parameter of feed price, but it's not decide by the witness. witness just execute it.
The committee only executes too. It decides nothing. Voters decide.
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again???
witness want to sell margin call orders at price 0.34 while market price at 0.332,
what's the problem with these witnesses?
please vote out.
发布人 清算价
( bitCNY/BTS) 手续费汇率
( bitCNY/BTS) 维持抵押率 强制平仓比例上限 发布时间
roelandp 0.3748 0.4498 1.75 1.1 9秒钟前
crazybit 0.3734 0.4668 1.75 1.1 12秒钟前
elmato 0.3743 0.4492 1.75 1.1 18秒钟前
gdex-witness 0.4238 0.5080 1.75 1.1 48秒钟前
witness.still 0.3757 0.4697 1.75 1.1 2分钟前
abc123 0.3754 0.4693 1.75 1.1 2分钟前
witness.hiblockchain 0.3734 0.4481 1.75 1.1 3分钟前
btspp-witness 0.3733 0.4483 1.75 1.1 3分钟前
openledger-dc 0.3734 0.3972 1.75 1.1 4分钟前
xman 0.3753 0.4634 1.75 1.1 4分钟前
delegate-zhaomu 0.3733 0.4479 1.75 1.1 5分钟前
blckchnd 0.3303 0.3468 1.75 1.1 5分钟前
magicwallet.witness 0.3736 0.4483 1.75 1.1 5分钟前
bangzi 0.3766 0.4707 1.75 1.1 6分钟前
bhuz 0.3716 0.3911 1.75 1.1 10分钟前
in.abit 0.3742 0.4797 1.75 1.1 12分钟前
witness.yao 0.3732 0.4478 1.75 1.1 13分钟前
xn-delegate 0.3737 0.4485 1.75 1.1 21分钟前
sahkan-bitshares 0.3743 0.4491 1.75 1.1 25分钟前
fox 0.3728 0.4474 1.75 1.1 45分钟前
zapata42-witness 0.3726 0.4471 1.75 1.1 1小时前
xeldal 0.3709 0.4451 1.75 1.1 1小时前
delegate.freedom 0.3699 0.4624 1.75 1.1 4小时前
Since BSIP42 is voted out. Then btspp-witness will restore the way before BSIP42, and add the black swan protection price.
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Feeding max(real_price, gs_protection_price)
where gs_protection_price = gs_price * 1.12
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Bangzi and winex.witness new BitCNY price feed same as bhuz:
Feeding max(real_price, gs_protection_price)
where gs_protection_price = gs_price * 1.12
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as currently there is big quantities of margin call orders, gdex-witness feed max(market price*MSSR, black swan protection price) to protect price from being pushed down with the positive feedback effect.
I agree that it's better to feed market price and set MSSR to a value close to 101%, however this need more discussion to reach consensus.
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magicwallet.witness now use this for CNY: feed_price = MAX(real_price, gs_protect_price) where gs_protect_price = gs_price * 1.11
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gdex-witness plan to update feed price algorithm for bitCNY as below:
plan for next update on bitCNY:
Pdex：BTS price in DEX in smartcoin
Pf: current feed price
premium: current premium
GS_price: global settlement price
scale= 0.5;
get Pdex, Pf, premium, GS_price;
black_swan_protection_price = GS_price*MSSR*1.01
while True:
get Pdex, Pf, premium;
if 0.5%>premium>-1%: ##just adopt the current median if the absolute premium is low enough.
feed price = Pf;
else:
feed price = Pf*(1+premium*scale);
feed price = min(feed price, Pdex*MSSR)
feed price = max(feed price, Pdex, black_swan_protection_price)
time.sleep(120); ##update every 2 minutes.
keep the BSIP42 logic, added GS protection logic, ensure the feed price is higher than market price and lower than market price*MSSR
bitCNY now has a premium of 2%+, if removing BSIP42 logic, the positive feed back effect will make price even lower and bitCNY in a higher premium, that is a disaster that actually can be avoided.
hope big proxy can support this updated BSIP42 as a temporary solution for this special moment.
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as currently there is big quantities of margin call orders, gdex-witness feed max(market price*MSSR, black swan protection price) to protect price from being pushed down with the positive feedback effect.
I agree that it's better to feed market price and set MSSR to a value close to 101%, however this need more discussion to reach consensus.
Better do MSSR dynamic in depend from worst CollateralRatio. More CR - less MSSR and on the contrary but after peak value (on my opinion CR=1.2 and MSSR~19%) if CR decrease need also decrease and MSSR for protection from BlackSwan. Must be stimulation for debtors not hold very low CR - this not safety for MPA. And better this regulation write in core-function, for protection from bitcrab ;)