BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: jwiz168 on July 21, 2014, 02:24:07 am
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It's high time for coinmarketcap to list BitshareX with market cap in placed for 2 billion. What could be the ranking? 8)
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Have BTC38 & bter started allowing withdrawals yet?
Until they do I personally would hold off listing.
(Coinmarketcap will be a big boost but if there's only the small amount on the exchanges it will create a false spike imo.)
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I see , so we must wait for the market to be stabilize so we can gauge the true worth of BTSX.
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I see , so we must wait for the market to be stabilize so we can gauge the true worth of BTSX.
Yes, I would wait till the first exchange was letting people deposit and withdraw BTSX from their wallets but that's just me. I don't know how other people feel.
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I see , so we must wait for the market to be stabilize so we can gauge the true worth of BTSX.
Yes, I would wait till the first exchange was letting people deposit and withdraw BTSX from their wallets but that's just me. I don't know how other people feel.
I strongly agree!
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BitShareX is on the list !!!
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BitShareX is on the list !!!
I was surprised to see that. We still cannot move BTSX on to and off of any exchange, can we?
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BitShareX is on the list !!!
...still without market cap ;)
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BitShareX is on the list !!!
...still without market cap ;)
Someone should supply coinmarketcap with url to get accurate supply of BTSX.
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we are on top 10
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we are on top 10
Bam ..!
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we are on top 10
Bam ..!
:(
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:o argh -- shouldn't we wait with this till site etc. is online? Now bitshares-x.info doesn't have site behind! ...
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Delegates should be doing damage control right now imo.
I would post on every forum especially BTT and let people know there is only a small float on the exchange. Even more important than info on the website is a big alert on bitsharesX info site that lets people know there is only a small float. (They are welcome to buy but only when deposits and withdraws are available will we see an accurate demand and supply picture.)
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I tried to stop them... =[
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I tried to stop them... =[
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What have you expected after releasing BitSharesX officialy ???
Should everything related to BTSX not be ready for launch ... before launch?
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I know the guy running coinmarketcap.com. He added the total market cap of all crypto currency stat at the bottom, based on my request.
Everyone send me any changes that need to be made (such as specific URLs) and I can forward these on to him.
Oh, and by the way, if anyone is willing to sell me a lot of BitShare X at anywhere close to that price, please contact me ASAP.
Brent
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I know the guy running coinmarketcap.com. He added the total market cap of all crypto currency stat at the bottom, based on my request.
Everyone send me any changes that need to be made (such as specific URLs) and I can forward these on to him.
Oh, and by the way, if anyone is willing to sell me a lot of BitShare X at anywhere close to that price, please contact me ASAP.
Brent
+5% Cool, well I guess there are a few options
1) Remove Listing till an exchange is allowing withdrawals and deposits
2) Keep listing as is & inform investors with notices and stickies on every forum & X related websites that there is only a small % of the total available to trade and that the current CAP might not reflect true supply and demand.
3) Keep it as is and don't do anything
4) Adjust the CAP to reflect the amount on the exchanges (This would be wrong in my view as most participants are trading on the knowledge it is a small portion.)
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Personally it's a rock and a hard place but I would vote for 1 & if not no.2 but obviously for others to decide.
(The problem with doing nothing is if people buy at these prices and it goes up when transfers are possible, no worries, but if the price goes down (or spikes and then goes down) when transfers become possible you will not hear the end of it from even a handful of people who felt they were conned & not clearly informed that the coinmarketcap listing was disingenuous. If we didn't do no.1/2 then I feel those disgruntled people would have a right to feel disgruntled & I wouldn't try to defend DacsUnlimited actions in that case. Dacsunlimited thanks to BitShares currently has a very good reputation in the market so no need to risk tarnishing it even a bit at the start.)
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Definitely would say remove it temporarily until it hits the markets, price swings are very imminent at this stage and it'd make us look worse if others claim it's a scam (along the lines of Ripple market cap when it was over 1 billion) because of the small amount on the market.
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You want it removed???
Sure, there will be bleating, ignorant noise, claiming/thinking it is a scam, but I think any news is good news, and the smart money (and ultimately the long term demonstrably experimental proof) is going to quickly see through and handsomely profit from the mistaken bleating.
Have I convinced everyone, or does anyone still think it should be removed?
Brent
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Is there some kind of proof link/url, for the 2,000,000,000 outstanding coins on the chain I can provide to coinmarketcap.com?
And, what percentage of those coins are held by whom? In particular, what percentage is held by Invictus Innovations? Are there any other major holders?
Brent
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I was excited to put it on there, but after listening to some people's views I gave up on the idea. There are still a lot of things that are needed that would help with the presentation/user experience. And a true actual market.
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You want it removed???
Sure, there will be bleating, ignorant noise, claiming/thinking it is a scam, but I think any news is good news, and the smart money (and ultimately the long term demonstrably experimental proof) is going to quickly see through and handsomely profit from the mistaken bleating.
Have I convinced everyone, or does anyone still think it should be removed?
Brent
BitShares X has incorrectly/mistakenly listed on Coinmarketcap stating a share supply of 2 Billion but the actual potential supply is probably closer to 10% of that.
If it is not removed/corrected or at the very least, people are not made aware of the huge discrepancy on the http://bitshares-x.info/ & on the main forum then BitShares X rather than an honest mistake will now be choosing to knowingly misinform potential investors for the period of time the information remains incorrect.
If people buying at these prices find the price drops when some of the other 90% of potential supply (That they are not aware of) hits the exchanges. Then those investors will not be bleating/making ignorant noise, they will be genuine victims imo.
There's an argument for doing more due diligence but even active members who haven't been around for 3 days struggle to keep up with what's going on - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5884.0 Our marketing has also been poor so the CoinmarketCap listing is the first many people will have seen of X.
I seem to be the only one who takes these PR matters this seriously, so perhaps I am over-reacting.
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BitShares X has incorrectly/mistakenly listed on Coinmarketcap stating a share supply of 2 Billion but the actual potential supply is probably closer to 10% of that.
By all means. I re-iterate my call. Can someone provide some kind of URL to some verifiable proof of just how many coins are on the chain, so we can get it updated and validated?
And who are the major obvious share holders of what is on the chain, now?
Brent allsop
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I seem to be the only one who takes these PR matters this seriously, so perhaps I am over-reacting.
I think Toast was pretty obvious about not wanting us to pursue coinmarketcap because of all the potential headaches + bad things.
Otherwise I think everyone is trying to put out fires at the moment.
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BitShares X has incorrectly/mistakenly listed on Coinmarketcap stating a share supply of 2 Billion but the actual potential supply is probably closer to 10% of that.
By all means. I re-iterate my call. Can someone provide some kind of URL to some verifiable proof of just how many coins are on the chain, so we can get it updated and validated?
And who are the major obvious share holders of what is on the chain, now?
Brent allsop
There are 2 Billion coins (less burning) on the chain I think, it's just that until one of the exchanges starts allowing for deposits & withdrawals, the amount that's currently being traded on the exchanges is being derived from the PTS people had on those particular exchanges at the end of Feb. (So a very small portion of that 2 Billion)
Sorry I don't know the % of any of the major shareholders there might be one big one if I recall of 5-10% but the rest are below that I believe.
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About 10% or ~200,000,000 BTSX =1.28*500*(52,349.50+258,761.354799) of the total of 2 Billion shares/coins are currently traded at the exchanges.
IMHO, updating to this number now would be even more confusing, than doing nothing.
The biggest BTSX holder of course is the AGS fund. I am only guessing about that!
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Let it as it is and help exchanges to start accept BTSX as soon as possible!
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BTSX was delisted from coinmarketcap . I guess to minimize confusion.
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We are the guest stars!
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still there though, going to the moon as far as i can tell :D
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You want it removed???
Sure, there will be bleating, ignorant noise, claiming/thinking it is a scam, but I think any news is good news, and the smart money (and ultimately the long term demonstrably experimental proof) is going to quickly see through and handsomely profit from the mistaken bleating.
Have I convinced everyone, or does anyone still think it should be removed?
Brent
BitShares X has incorrectly/mistakenly listed on Coinmarketcap stating a share supply of 2 Billion but the actual potential supply is probably closer to 10% of that.
It would make no sense to list the supply at 10%. The DAC has been launched and the shares are already issued. The problem with the supply is that it should be decreasing based on the burn rate
If it is not removed/corrected or at the very least, people are not made aware of the huge discrepancy on the http://bitshares-x.info/ & on the main forum then BitShares X rather than an honest mistake will now be choosing to knowingly misinform potential investors for the period of time the information remains incorrect.
This is a market with only $20,000 in volume. Its not like a lot of ppl are going to trade BitShares X just because it magically appeared on the top 10. People don't just buy a coin because they see it listed on coinmarketcap. People use coinmarketcap to see what new coins are coming out and then investigate for themselves whether they should invest in it.
If people buying at these prices find the price drops when some of the other 90% of potential supply (That they are not aware of) hits the exchanges. Then those investors will not be bleating/making ignorant noise, they will be genuine victims imo.
How are they genuine victims if they are buying btsx at a lower price than what people paid for during the AGS funding?
There's an argument for doing more due diligence but even active members who haven't been around for 3 days struggle to keep up with what's going on - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5884.0 Our marketing has also been poor so the CoinmarketCap listing is the first many people will have seen of X.
Yes thats the point. As I mentioned before people don't just automatically jump into a coin because it is on coinmarketcap. Coinmarketcap is PR.
I seem to be the only one who takes these PR matters this seriously, so perhaps I am over-reacting.
The thing is that the price is going to spike from where it sits now when it hits other exchanges regardless of whether or not coinmarketcap list it. However, listing it now gives people a good reference point of what the price should be. To say that the price is going to go down and stay down is not realistic. I think that a lot of people who got pts early on will dump, but I think the demand primarily from day traders will be enough to offset those sell offs. I day trade cryptos and btsx makes arbitrage possible where it was not possible before. Now you can capitalize on the difference in prices over different exchanges because you can transfer in seconds as opposed to minutes. On the other hand, btsx is trading far below its main competitor Nxt. Talking to the Nxt guys it is clearly that the bitshares codebase is substantially better than Nxt's. On fundamentals the price should be far greater than it is now. The price in my opinion, although some such as Toast disagree, is reflective of the risk and uncertainty of pre trading shares and not reflective of a fair market price for btsx which should be valued higher than the current market suggest.
At the end of the day ppl may dump. But that is not a loss but rather a potential gain. Prices will not stay this low for long. If anyone gets in at these prices I think it would be wrong to call them a "victim."
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Talking to the Nxt guys it is clearly that the bitshares codebase is substantially better than Nxt's.
Nice!
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Talking to the Nxt guys it is clearly that the bitshares codebase is substantially better than Nxt's.
Nice!
I would love to see more information about relative code quality and by what metrics they are comparing the code?
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About 10% or ~200,000,000 BTSX =1.28*500*(52,349.50+258,761.354799) of the total of 2 Billion shares/coins are currently traded at the exchanges.
IMHO, updating to this number now would be even more confusing, than doing nothing.
The biggest BTSX holder of course is the AGS fund. I am only guessing about that!
So for those that want to know how many shares were initially seeded in the block chain, how many shares are available in circulation now, how many will be moved into circulation, when and why, and who owns the majority of these, where can we get this kind of information?
Brent
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@ Clout - I massively respect you but in this situation I strongly disagree with nearly everything you've said. I also think you should have waited till one of the main devs confirmed it was OK to list as Coinmarketcap.com is a big move for other reasons as well. But I've said most of my piece on it already & it looks like it's staying up. No need for me to pursue this further. It is what it is now.
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About 10% or ~200,000,000 BTSX =1.28*500*(52,349.50+258,761.354799) of the total of 2 Billion shares/coins are currently traded at the exchanges.
IMHO, updating to this number now would be even more confusing, than doing nothing.
The biggest BTSX holder of course is the AGS fund. I am only guessing about that!
So for those that want to know how many shares were initially seeded in the block chain,
2 Billion
how many shares are available in circulation now,
Almost the same. Exact# unknown due to a bug.
how many will be moved into circulation,
All 2 bil are in circulation
when and why,
N/A
and who owns the majority of these,
Who owns the majority of Bitcoin? i.e. I do not know
where can we get this kind of information?
What do you mean by this kind of information
Brent
[edit] try this http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Bitshares_X
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About 10% or ~200,000,000 BTSX =1.28*500*(52,349.50+258,761.354799) of the total of 2 Billion shares/coins are currently traded at the exchanges.
IMHO, updating to this number now would be even more confusing, than doing nothing.
The biggest BTSX holder of course is the AGS fund. I am only guessing about that!
So for those that want to know how many shares were initially seeded in the block chain, how many shares are available in circulation now, how many will be moved into circulation, when and why, and who owns the majority of these, where can we get this kind of information?
Brent
The owners are people who donated to BitShares-AGS prior to 28/02/2014 and people who were holding BitShares-PTS on 28/02/2014 at I forget what time. 50% was awarded to AGS & 50% to PTS. A few thousand BTC was raised in this process I'm not sure of the total. There were 2 Billion BTSX issued.
The wallet is available meaning all the owners can now access their BTSX.
However to my knowledge none of the exchanges are accepting deposits yet.
The BTSX being traded on exchanges is BTSX that was awarded to people who held BitShares-PTS on those exchanges on the date & time of the snapshot on 28/02/2014
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However to my knowledge none of the exchanges are accepting deposits yet.
No the whole discussion is pointless. Go relist it.
It is trading with deposits/withdrawals on BTC38 already.
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However to my knowledge none of the exchanges are accepting deposits yet.
No the whole discussion is pointless. Go relist it.
It is trading with deposits/withdrawals on BTC38 already.
Great. (It's been listed for me the entire time, was never delisted.)
@ Brent now that BTSX is trading with deposits & withdrawals the current listing of 2 Billion units is correct imo. Nothing to change.
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It's still on there. #7 at the moment. Having it there does not bother me; the market will adjust and so will this listing. It's dirt cheap at the moment--worth a mint and tremendously undervalued. I will be buying more.
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So 10% of the shares went to ags and protoshare donators right? Who owns the other 90% of the shares, and when will they be moved into circulation?
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So 10% of the shares went to ags and protoshare donators right? Who owns the other 90% of the shares, and when will they be moved into circulation?
100% went to AGS/PTS
see:
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Bitshares_X
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So 10% of the shares went to ags and protoshare donators right? Who owns the other 90% of the shares, and when will they be moved into circulation?
100% went to AGS and protoshares (50% each) Now that BTC38 and bter are accepting deposits they are all in potential circulation.
(The initial problem was that until a few hours ago the only shares being traded were a portion of the BTSX allocated via protoshares that bter & BTC38 had specifically on their exchanges on 28/02. Now they are accepting deposits, hence the spike in volume you see.)
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Something doesn't seem to be adding up. This donation page:
http://www1.agsexplorer.com/
says that 2 million btsx went to ags and pts donors.
Where did all the other of the 2 billion shares go?
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Not Updated.
50% to AGS donors, 50% to PTS holders. Both % from 2 billion.
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Where did all the other of the 2 billion shares go?
Just a rescale .. If you originally hat 50 BTS you now have 50,000 BTSX .. nothing more
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Where did all the other of the 2 billion shares go?
Just a rescale .. If you originally hat 50 BTS you now have 50,000 BTSX .. nothing more
Yeah it was a rescale instead of dividing total units into 4 million, 2 million each to AGS & PTS they've divided it into 2 billion units. 1 billion units each to AGS & PTS.
So I think 50 BTS is now worth 25 000 BTSX
I forget the official reason for the change but I thought it was a good one as it's pretty obvious to me X will have a CAP of a few $billion + pretty soon. So the amount of units will at least make it easier to work with for a while.
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Where did all the other of the 2 billion shares go?
Just a rescale .. If you originally hat 50 BTS you now have 50,000 BTSX .. nothing more
Yeah it was a rescale instead of dividing total units into 4 million, 2 million each to AGS & PTS they've divided it into 2 billion units. 1 billion units each to AGS & PTS.
So I think 50 BTS is now worth 25 000 BTSX
I forget the official reason for the change but I thought it was a good one as it's pretty obvious to me X will have a CAP of a few $billion + pretty soon. So the amount of units will at least make it easier to work with for a while.
yep 25000 (multiplied x500 thats the analogy)
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in addition to BTSX being in the top 10 market cap, it also is currently #4 in volume with ~half a million in trading in the past day
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/volume/24-hour/#bitshares-x
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in addition to BTSX being in the top 10 market cap, it also is currently #4 in volume with ~half a million in trading in the past day
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/volume/24-hour/#bitshares-x
Yes and the BTSX/CNY volume is even higher than LTC/CNY volume, 2nd in CNY only to Bitcoin itself today :)
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Why does coinmarketcap say the total supply is 1,999,775,140 BTSX and not 2,000,000,000 BTSX?
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Why does coinmarketcap say the total supply is 1,999,775,140 BTSX and not 2,000,000,000 BTSX?
I think its because a portion of btsx tx fees are destroyed with almost every block
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Why does coinmarketcap say the total supply is 1,999,775,140 BTSX and not 2,000,000,000 BTSX?
I think its because a portion of btsx tx fees are destroyed with almost every block
Current Share Supply is: 1,999,674,492.37537 BTSX
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Damn, I didn't realize the tx fees added up that quickly. With the total supply declining, you're making me feel richer already.
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Damn, I didn't realize the tx fees added up that quickly. With the total supply declining, you're making me feel richer already.
A few people pay high fees to register assets. Share supply is declining at a rate of about 86 BTSX / hour.
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Damn, I didn't realize the tx fees added up that quickly. With the total supply declining, you're making me feel richer already.
A few people pay high fees to register assets. Share supply is declining at a rate of about 86 BTSX / hour.
0.0000043% richer per hour! 8)
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BitShares-X could rise to #6 today on coinmarketcap.com. PTS up 15% on Bter's 24h sliding window. Things are looking good 8) .
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BitShares-X could rise to #6 today on coinmarketcap.com. PTS up 15% on Bter's 24h sliding window. Things are looking good 8) .
BTER people know what's up https://bter.com/article/2278
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BitShares-X could rise to #6 today on coinmarketcap.com. PTS up 15% on Bter's 24h sliding window. Things are looking good 8) .
BTER people know what's up https://bter.com/article/2278 (https://bter.com/article/2278)
That's pretty sweet. I guess that means when the two shares' are available for trade on Bter your account will automatically get the balance due based on your PTS holdings?
Have to weigh the risk of using an exchange based wallet v.s. importing private keys into a new DAC. Both are probably pretty safe in this case but future DAC's released by unknown devs might be a different story.
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Different story and different snapshot .. imo.. i'd say you are good to go this time