0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Quote from: Digital Lucifer on October 21, 2019, 12:56:18 pmNever said they are. Commitee (e.g. board of directors) as operators (fund managers) are responsible for it in every possible way including legal one. Do as you wish, Chee®sHm, i didn't get it.
Never said they are. Commitee (e.g. board of directors) as operators (fund managers) are responsible for it in every possible way including legal one. Do as you wish, Chee®s
Quote from: Digital Lucifer on October 21, 2019, 10:48:41 amCommittee is set of 11 different accounts that are all responsible for funds, not just 1 account with support of community.It should be voted by committee members, not a community - since community has no legal responsibility for the actions they vote for (yet).Can you explain the "legal responsibility"?These fund was operated by committeesI think you didn't read carefully what i said, it doesn't mean the fund belong to the committees.If the community decided to something with this fund,the committees should follow the result of vote.Committe have the right to make a proposal express what he or the voters want to do, this is what he should to do.No action then will no responsibility, this will be very sad for the community.
Committee is set of 11 different accounts that are all responsible for funds, not just 1 account with support of community.It should be voted by committee members, not a community - since community has no legal responsibility for the actions they vote for (yet).
As in the past, I do *not* support using community funds for leverage.
Quote from: Digital Lucifer on October 21, 2019, 06:35:38 amQuote from: bitcrab on October 21, 2019, 01:26:53 amQuote from: Sapiens on October 20, 2019, 09:09:49 pmQuote from: bitcrab on October 20, 2019, 01:17:30 pmso that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.it is just like in 1971, President Nikson announced to give up the peg of USD on GOLD.it is irrelevant to ethics or thuthufulness, it is relevant to the demand of economy.if you are not able to understand, I do not have time to explain more at this moment.Mr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch. This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.Chee®sThis is proposed by cn-vote and Chinese investors. By the way, it is Chinese investors who are pouring money into BTS to support all sorts of spending.
Quote from: bitcrab on October 21, 2019, 01:26:53 amQuote from: Sapiens on October 20, 2019, 09:09:49 pmQuote from: bitcrab on October 20, 2019, 01:17:30 pmso that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.it is just like in 1971, President Nikson announced to give up the peg of USD on GOLD.it is irrelevant to ethics or thuthufulness, it is relevant to the demand of economy.if you are not able to understand, I do not have time to explain more at this moment.Mr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch. This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.Chee®s
Quote from: Sapiens on October 20, 2019, 09:09:49 pmQuote from: bitcrab on October 20, 2019, 01:17:30 pmso that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.it is just like in 1971, President Nikson announced to give up the peg of USD on GOLD.it is irrelevant to ethics or thuthufulness, it is relevant to the demand of economy.if you are not able to understand, I do not have time to explain more at this moment.
Quote from: bitcrab on October 20, 2019, 01:17:30 pmso that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.
so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.
Quote from: Digital Lucifer on October 21, 2019, 06:35:38 amQuote from: bitcrab on October 21, 2019, 01:26:53 amQuote from: Sapiens on October 20, 2019, 09:09:49 pmQuote from: bitcrab on October 20, 2019, 01:17:30 pmso that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.it is just like in 1971, President Nikson announced to give up the peg of USD on GOLD.it is irrelevant to ethics or thuthufulness, it is relevant to the demand of economy.if you are not able to understand, I do not have time to explain more at this moment.Mr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch. This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.Chee®sMr. Digital Lucifer,If you are still stubbornly considering the bitcrab proposal is wrong, then investigate the community members' choices, hundreds of Chinese community members support bitcrab, and hundreds of millions of votes. Please respect the community, respect the votes, and respect those who work tirelessly for the development of BTS.This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.Digital Lucifer先生,如果您仍然顽固地认为Bitcrab提案是错误的,请调查社区成员的选择,数百名中国社区成员还有数亿票的票仓支持bitcrab。 请尊重社区,尊重选票,并尊重为BTS的发展做出不懈努力的人们。这是一个友好的(软)建议。
Quote from: Digital Lucifer on October 21, 2019, 06:35:38 amMr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch. This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.Chee®sI don't think these words were suitable.These fund was operated by committees, even this proposal was voted in, every committe still has the responsibility to decide how to use these fund.As a committee, he has the right and obligation to think how to use these fund, and every stakholder has the right and obligation to think how to use these fund, give a proposal and bid for votes.If you opposed or didn‘t like this proposal,you can just give your reasons simply, language attack or emotional expression can't help anything.
Mr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch. This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.Chee®s
> but now, we have threshold feed price, which remove the problem, and now we can borrow with margin call price < threshold feed price without worrying margin call.The threshold price is not set for eternity. See e. g. this proposal: https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/244If this gets accepted the committee debt posiition would instantly be margin called. Also note that the external price for BTS is less than 0.19 CNY whereas when selling CNY on the DEX you have to pay 0.202 CNY/BTS. In other words, the committee would lose more than 6% with this deal, even without BTS going down.
Quote from: bitcrab on October 20, 2019, 10:57:29 am2. won't the funds be used at the market making contest?I suggest the MM contest to create a worker to get funds. suppose the contest need 10M BTS, it's better that 10M BTS are released from worker and being bought back buy committee-account, than just releasing the 7M BTS in committee-account to market.Just to clarify, the MM contest according to current proposed rules will need **up to** 1.8M BTS per month. Actually I would expect the real expense would be much less due to the strict rules. I don't know why you supposed it need 10M BTS.
2. won't the funds be used at the market making contest?I suggest the MM contest to create a worker to get funds. suppose the contest need 10M BTS, it's better that 10M BTS are released from worker and being bought back buy committee-account, than just releasing the 7M BTS in committee-account to market.
A proposal is created to borrow 810K bitCNY with CR=1.61.1.10.50600 | Expires: 28 Oct 09:59Change committee-account bitCNY debt by 810,000.0000 bitCNY and collateral by 5,927,727.27273 BTSborrowing smartcoin to buy back BTS is one method to make the accumulated funds in committee-account to contribute to the ecosystem.in the past, this method is always opposed because no one know which margin call price is safe enough.but now, we have threshold feed price, which remove the problem, and now we can borrow with margin call price < threshold feed price without worrying margin call.if we use the initial 5.96M BTS to continue the borrow and buy back loop, finally committee-account can buy more than 10M BTS , not a very small volume. this worth doing at current market status. however, there are some other questions need to answer:1.bitCNY has a almost 10% devaluation, will this operation release more bitCNY to markets and make even more serious devaluation? bitCNY devaluated because the market price is lower than the threshold feed price, the buying back operation intended to absorb more BTS liquidity from market, not to pull up the price, releasing of several millions of bitCNY do not have obvious impact on bitCNY devaluation.the devaluation will end after the market price go above 0.22CNY, if we begin the operation after that moment, we will pay higher price in the trading, so now it is better to begin the operation just now.2. won't the funds be used at the market making contest?I suggest the MM contest to create a worker to get funds. suppose the contest need 10M BTS, it's better that 10M BTS are released from worker and being bought back buy committee-account, than just releasing the 7M BTS in committee-account to market.Committee members, please check this proposal and vote according to your opinion.
The BBF can borrow 600K bitcny itself, and the market fee will not buy back bts from market and will pay back the BBF debt as now market price(0.24bitcny) , when the BBF this debt was closed with 600K bitcny from the market feed, the BBF must send 2.5M BTS to committee-account.Something like Forward Contract.
Quote from: sschiessl on September 12, 2019, 07:21:10 amQuote from: bitcrab on September 12, 2019, 03:40:58 amWhy not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.if the demand is still there, I feel it can be operated like this:1.committee-account borrow 500K bitCNY with putting all the BTS balance into collateral.(5.77MBTS, margin call price=0.1384CNY)2.committee-account claim 50K bitCNY fee.2.committee-account trade 600K bitCNY with BBF account with the "barter proposal" to get BTS in market price.let's do it?
Quote from: bitcrab on September 12, 2019, 03:40:58 amWhy not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.
Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?
Quote from: sschiessl on September 12, 2019, 07:21:10 amQuote from: bitcrab on September 12, 2019, 03:40:58 amWhy not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.would have to be a separate account for transparency reasons as unlocked collateral (as market fees pay back the loan) should be burned back to the chain
I also would like to talk the possibility of managing a debt position. even I am aware that almost everyone try to avoid it.say, now with 5.77M BTS, it we set margin call price = 0.1CNY, 460K bitCNY can be borrowed.good to buy back BTS with these bitCNY?as there are continuous bitCNY fee income to committee-account, the risk is very very low.surely 5.77M BTS is not so much, either to use it will give little impact, but after BSIP74 is implemented, more BTS will come into committee-account, if there are tens or even hundreds of MBTS in committee-account, shall we still leave them there without using them?On one hand many workers are voted down as the ecosystem is so weak, OTOH why we do not use the accumulated BTS to give some support to the ecosystem?as I know recently BBF want to sell BTS to get 600K CNY to pay worker salary, suppose price=0.24CNY, need 2.5MBTS.Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF? just talk.
We need to make comparison before determine BTS price is cheap or expensive. Below is simple and effective comparison method since BTS aim to surpass BTC. If BTS Market Cap more than BTC Market Cap, then is Expensive.If BTS Market Cap less than BTC Market Cap, then is Cheap.