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Quote from: bitmeat on August 27, 2014, 12:57:51 pmQuote from: jae208 on August 27, 2014, 12:54:49 pmNo I don't but why such interest in BitUSD buyers? Thats all you guys have been talking about for last several posts. Unless you are holding many BitUSD's and looking to unload.Because it's a big deal. If there are no BitUSD buyers, then the whole experiment that BTSX is, doesn't work.There is a breakdown somewhere and I'm trying to figure out where. It could be a bootstrapping problem - no BitUSD buyers = no support = no trust in the system = even less BitUSD buyers.Add to that the other theory above, that it is just not worth for anyone to buy this high, since I believe there are theoretical maximums....Most people are dumping into BTC or CNY, not the USD....
Quote from: jae208 on August 27, 2014, 12:54:49 pmNo I don't but why such interest in BitUSD buyers? Thats all you guys have been talking about for last several posts. Unless you are holding many BitUSD's and looking to unload.Because it's a big deal. If there are no BitUSD buyers, then the whole experiment that BTSX is, doesn't work.There is a breakdown somewhere and I'm trying to figure out where. It could be a bootstrapping problem - no BitUSD buyers = no support = no trust in the system = even less BitUSD buyers.Add to that the other theory above, that it is just not worth for anyone to buy this high, since I believe there are theoretical maximums.
No I don't but why such interest in BitUSD buyers? Thats all you guys have been talking about for last several posts. Unless you are holding many BitUSD's and looking to unload.
Another problem is we don't have BitBTC or BitCNY. We need both. Most people are dumping into BTC or CNY, not the USD.
If the price is fixed I think the market depth would fluctuate widely and often be below 10% especially at the beginning. So it would not abe good for bootstrapping the system if we keep the market depth requierement.
Quote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 03:14:54 pmQuote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 03:13:43 pmQuote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 03:10:06 pmQuote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 03:03:48 pmQuote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 02:59:45 pmOk, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.Before answering, can I ask if you have a means to stop trading on short notice? (such as delegates remove feeds) - I don't want to make a problem worse.I can stop trades by removing required depth.Price of bitUSD crashes to worthless unless you do something.If you believe that then you should be shorting it How much BTC from AGS funds do I get if I'm right and bitUSD crashes or I convince you to make the change (preferred)? Although I don't want to disincentivize changes... How much if my solution works?
Quote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 03:13:43 pmQuote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 03:10:06 pmQuote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 03:03:48 pmQuote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 02:59:45 pmOk, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.Before answering, can I ask if you have a means to stop trading on short notice? (such as delegates remove feeds) - I don't want to make a problem worse.I can stop trades by removing required depth.Price of bitUSD crashes to worthless unless you do something.If you believe that then you should be shorting it
Quote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 03:10:06 pmQuote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 03:03:48 pmQuote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 02:59:45 pmOk, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.Before answering, can I ask if you have a means to stop trading on short notice? (such as delegates remove feeds) - I don't want to make a problem worse.I can stop trades by removing required depth.Price of bitUSD crashes to worthless unless you do something.
Quote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 03:03:48 pmQuote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 02:59:45 pmOk, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.Before answering, can I ask if you have a means to stop trading on short notice? (such as delegates remove feeds) - I don't want to make a problem worse.I can stop trades by removing required depth.
Quote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 02:59:45 pmOk, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.Before answering, can I ask if you have a means to stop trading on short notice? (such as delegates remove feeds) - I don't want to make a problem worse.
Ok, put you money where your mouth is... which way will the peg go? From where I sit the peg is behaving perfectly given the low supply of liquidity providers.
Quote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 03:00:28 pmQuote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 02:55:59 pmThey can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops.to clarify by "not valid" I mean these shorts do not appear on the standard order book and can not be matched with buy orders for bitUSD.So 2 willing consenting parties involved. 1 wants to take the risk of a short below standard market rates. The other wants to buy. All participants are acting from their own information, their own judgements of profitability etc. I don't see the problem. If shorting below standard USD market rate is a bad idea, then these actors will pay the price.I don't think the market should be subject to the 'desires' that only these traders are allowed to trade and only at this price. The market should be subject to the resulting inclination of all participants to "put their money where there mouth is" making there own decisions and paying the price for bad, uninformed ones.If the market peg holds 10% below the standard, there is a reason for that. Unless your *removing* barriers to free participation, it should not be meddled with. Shorting below market rates is not a free ride, and trading at all on this new market carries great risk. It will take some time for a more clear and distinguished consensus about where bitUSD should be valued to emerge. I personally think as the tree and it branches grow the price will tend to a tighter range around the standard USD market and I will place my bets accordingly. If you feel otherwise, you know what to do.
Quote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 02:55:59 pmThey can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops.to clarify by "not valid" I mean these shorts do not appear on the standard order book and can not be matched with buy orders for bitUSD.
They can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops.
Quote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 03:00:28 pmQuote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 02:55:59 pmThey can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops.to clarify by "not valid" I mean these shorts do not appear on the standard order book and can not be matched with buy orders for bitUSD.I understand what you are saying.... so lets describe BitUSD better:BitUSD is a market between those who want leverage and those who want stability. The "price" in this market will depend upon the interest rate people are willing to borrow at to get the leverage they desire.What you want to do is price fix the interest rate. The result of price fixing the interest rate will be "gas lines" for those who would like to short as shorts pile up on the price. Now the start of the line is constantly moving as the feeds are updated and every time a short updates their "price" they go to the back of the line. The huge demand to "short" will thus provide liquidity for those who want to go long USD. Where as under the non-price-fixed scheme there is less liquidity.I think this approach has some real potential to help in the bootstrapping phase.
Quote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 02:49:45 pmWith "price fixing laws" all trades are still voluntary... they just don't happen.There is a supply/demand dynamic at play here. If you only allow people to short at price X and there are 2 people that both want to short at that price, who goes first?People can short at price X or above. They can also short below price X but it is not valid unless the exchange rate drops. If two people both happen to short at the same price then the person who got their order in first gets first dibs but something like this already must be used. Trades will still happen; some people want to increase their exposure to BTSX and others want dollar valued crypto.I think you're also not appreciating the severity of the problem, this needs to be fixed or the peg will not hold and will be irreparably destroyed.
With "price fixing laws" all trades are still voluntary... they just don't happen.There is a supply/demand dynamic at play here. If you only allow people to short at price X and there are 2 people that both want to short at that price, who goes first?
Quote from: GaltReport on August 27, 2014, 02:10:11 pmOnce you can more easilly get actualy USD fiat or purchase goods and services with it, people will have more confidence in owning it. Right now, if you look at the BitUSD "markets" on bter with a goal of converting to USD fiat, it doesn't inspire confidence IMHO.Maybe I'll start a Pizza broker business that only takes bitUSD .
Once you can more easilly get actualy USD fiat or purchase goods and services with it, people will have more confidence in owning it. Right now, if you look at the BitUSD "markets" on bter with a goal of converting to USD fiat, it doesn't inspire confidence IMHO.
The price needs to offer people incentive to go long USD and thus the peg will currently be biased and thus BitUSD is currently 14% cheaper than USD. To me 14% seems like a reasonable premium to entice people into BitUSD.
So if you want to trade BitUSD vs USD you just have to ask yourself which way will the spread be moving and trade accordingly.If we were to use "price fixing" as you suggest then you would just dry up the supply of BitUSD and nothing would happen. I already hate the 10% limits on either side of the feed which were interfering the other day.
I see 500 dollars on either side usd/bitUSD 1:1 with a 10% difference, https://bter.com/trade/bitusd_usd
Quote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 01:45:48 pmQuote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 01:35:25 pmI think people are still learning the best strategies.... I made some money over night with the following strategy.1) Buy BitUSD when prices BTSX is high and BitUSD is cheap vs USD 2) Sell BitUSD at the "peg price" (I make money on corrections automatically) 3) Places shorts low to catch a market correction. (when the market overshoots on the down side I get solid short positions)4) Cover shorts with USD that was bought cheap. Anyone who wants to trade on the BTSX volatility can make a killing right now. So for the BTSX bull who is also a trader the slight discount on BitUSD vs USD is irrelevant and mostly a constant offset that will gradually move closer and closer to the peg over time as liquidity is added.bytemaster, you are wrong. The current market mechanic is flawed.Using the price feed to set a floor price for valid bitUSD shorts is imperative. The good news is that this will make bitUSD really work and it will actually track the value of the dollar nicely! Please act quickly.Agent, I am going to disagree with you on this one. The price needs to offer people incentive to go long USD and thus the peg will currently be biased and thus BitUSD is currently 14% cheaper than USD. To me 14% seems like a reasonable premium to entice people into BitUSD. It means many people want to leverage up and are so sure of their position they are willing to do it at 14% above market. The next time we get to bubble highs you will see this spread approach 0 or go negative as demand for a hedge increases. So if you want to trade BitUSD vs USD you just have to ask yourself which way will the spread be moving and trade accordingly.If we were to use "price fixing" as you suggest then you would just dry up the supply of BitUSD and nothing would happen. I already hate the 10% limits on either side of the feed which were interfering the other day.
Quote from: bytemaster on August 27, 2014, 01:35:25 pmI think people are still learning the best strategies.... I made some money over night with the following strategy.1) Buy BitUSD when prices BTSX is high and BitUSD is cheap vs USD 2) Sell BitUSD at the "peg price" (I make money on corrections automatically) 3) Places shorts low to catch a market correction. (when the market overshoots on the down side I get solid short positions)4) Cover shorts with USD that was bought cheap. Anyone who wants to trade on the BTSX volatility can make a killing right now. So for the BTSX bull who is also a trader the slight discount on BitUSD vs USD is irrelevant and mostly a constant offset that will gradually move closer and closer to the peg over time as liquidity is added.bytemaster, you are wrong. The current market mechanic is flawed.Using the price feed to set a floor price for valid bitUSD shorts is imperative. The good news is that this will make bitUSD really work and it will actually track the value of the dollar nicely! Please act quickly.
I think people are still learning the best strategies.... I made some money over night with the following strategy.1) Buy BitUSD when prices BTSX is high and BitUSD is cheap vs USD 2) Sell BitUSD at the "peg price" (I make money on corrections automatically) 3) Places shorts low to catch a market correction. (when the market overshoots on the down side I get solid short positions)4) Cover shorts with USD that was bought cheap. Anyone who wants to trade on the BTSX volatility can make a killing right now. So for the BTSX bull who is also a trader the slight discount on BitUSD vs USD is irrelevant and mostly a constant offset that will gradually move closer and closer to the peg over time as liquidity is added.
Quote from: Agent86 on August 27, 2014, 01:45:48 pmbytemaster, you are wrong. The current market mechanic is flawed.Using the price feed to set a floor price for valid bitUSD shorts is imperative. The good news is that this will make bitUSD really work and it will actually track the value of the dollar nicely! Please act quickly.Agent, I am going to disagree with you on this one. The price needs to offer people incentive to go long USD and thus the peg will currently be biased and thus BitUSD is currently 14% cheaper than USD. To me 14% seems like a reasonable premium to entice people into BitUSD. It means many people want to leverage up and are so sure of their position they are willing to do it at 14% above market. The next time we get to bubble highs you will see this spread approach 0 or go negative as demand for a hedge increases. So if you want to trade BitUSD vs USD you just have to ask yourself which way will the spread be moving and trade accordingly.If we were to use "price fixing" as you suggest then you would just dry up the supply of BitUSD and nothing would happen. I already hate the 10% limits on either side of the feed which were interfering the other day.
bytemaster, you are wrong. The current market mechanic is flawed.Using the price feed to set a floor price for valid bitUSD shorts is imperative. The good news is that this will make bitUSD really work and it will actually track the value of the dollar nicely! Please act quickly.
I think people are still learning the best strategies.... I made some money over night with the following strategy.1) Buy BitUSD when prices BTSX is high and BitUSD is cheap vs USD 2) Sell BitUSD at the "peg price" (I make money on corrections automatically) 3) Places shorts low to catch a market correction. (when the market overshoots on the down side I get solid short positions)4) Cover shorts with USD that was bought cheap.
You guys are sounding kind of scammy.Personally, after reading your last several posts I wouldn't listen to what you have to say in the future.