Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

There needs to be a third option...discuss again in 6 months.

It wont be the lack of features that prevent people from using BitShares...

Mainstream adoption will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER happen if the product is clunky, buggy, and looks like shit.  If you think I'm wrong, point me to an example.  THIS SHOULD BE PRIORITY NUMBER 1.  Trading in the decentralized market should be as smooth, clean, and simple as trading on Bter.  Looks matter. CLI functions, even if can be used by power users, should be considered as non-existent, and never advertised.  If its not easy to use, for all practical purposes, it doesn't exist. Who do we want to attract, upper class business folks, or degenerate gamblers looking for their Bingo fix??

Quote from: sumantso on February 02, 2015, 06:48:12 pm

Seeing as that BM realises BTS is about to fail and is putting it in as a desperate step, everybody should vote yes.

spoiler alert : BTS is gonna go viral in several months due to some major promotion effort in China , unless we do something to drag their feet . A crowd funding company already got millions of USD of VC to operate their operation on BTS . That's once in a life time opportunity for BTS .

As a matter of fact , all they want is no more surprises , a stable wallet and protocol ,  everything will work out eventually .

 

Quote from: lil_jay890 on January 31, 2015, 10:34:31 pm

Sexist stereotyping probably isn't going to help...

 

I must say that I find some of the comments in this thread disappointingly unconstructive at best.
I must also say that I dislike the word 'unconstructive', but have, nevertheless, decided to use it!

The only comments I thought to be offensive were in the OP...well, unless you're Angela Merkel 

Quote from: jsidhu on February 02, 2015, 05:40:55 pm

Are you trying to figure out how to hack the network? Just read the source if so?

Reading the source won't help much because I can't get the idea. Common sense says that if a government controls election process then this government can't be voted-out if it doesn't want this. In the real world we have separation of powers. What do we have in BitShares to avoid abuse of power? I already knew that the shareholders can fire delegates, bad thing is that they have to do it only with help of these delegates and the delegates may refuse to do so by pretending that they don't see voting-out transactions.

In the BitShares world, delegates are not government representatives, they are employees of a company. If your scenario happens, what is the actual harm done?

Quote from: sschechter on February 02, 2015, 03:23:49 pm

Then users will swarm the boards wondering why their transactions went through.  The community will discover they've been attacked, and will roll back / fork the network to vote in a new set of delegates.  The attackers attack will have been for naught.  Short term, this attack will give BitShares a minor black eye, but long term it will show how resilient the network is and there will be no more incentives to perform this attack again.

This won't work for DACs. They can't read forums. A good solution ought to be automatic.

Already addressed by a previous post:

"BitShares always has a back up plan in case of the unpredictable black swan, but it doesn't waste time squabbling about optimizing the effectiveness of plans that are unlikely to ever be needed."

"Its why we will make the money while those chasing perfection will end up teaching university courses. "

You opinion of what is a 'good' solution is just your opinion, based on a theoretical assumption that a DAC can't have human intervention.  As a practical solution, I think my solution is great, and it kills the incentive for such an EXTREMELY improbable attack.

Quote from: sschechter on February 02, 2015, 02:24:45 pm

This also assumes that our non anonymous delegates are willing to harm their own reputation and risk their own investments for peanuts.

They won't harm their reputation because you can't prove that they saw a transaction but decided to ignore it.

Then users will swarm the boards wondering why their transactions went through.  The community will discover they've been attacked, and will roll back / fork the network to vote in a new set of delegates.  The attackers attack will have been for naught.  Short term, this attack will give BitShares a minor black eye, but long term it will show how resilient the network is and there will be no more incentives to perform this attack again.

The point is that being "rational" he thinks that all 101 delegates would immediately accept payment from the smart contract, and reject any new voting transactions that would replace any delegate.  He's basically asserting that the BitShares network would be unable to find even 1 out of the 101 delegates who would refuse to sabotage the network if offered a 1% pay raise as a bribe to sabotage it:

This also assumes that our non anonymous delegates are willing to harm their own reputation and risk their own investments for peanuts.

 

Even in these EXTREME scenarios you present, whats the harm to the network? Why can't the network be forked?

Sony was hacked, Target was hacked....a PR blunder for sure but did that actually stop anyone from shopping at Sony or Target?