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The reason sharedrops that "simulate mining" work is because all of the early adopters etc are miners. Most of the die-hard types sitting on forums have at least dabbled in mining and believe it to be "fair". There is nothing special about mining that sells a distribution except the existing adopters have mentally bought in. They've put their capital into mining equipment so now they're a middle man selling hashes and taking the profits and paying the electricity providers. This is not much different from paying for shares directly, people just need to have it explained to them. Mining is also labor intensive so it keeps large capital from showing up and just buying in. This is probably the one biggest thing people need to avoid in the longrun, the perception that the guy with the most money at the start ends with the most money. Lots will disagree with it, but this is probably the biggest perception at play when people don't like POS. An "unfair" distribution. Mining is only marginally more fair because it requires labor to set it up.
Quote from: fuznuts on July 18, 2014, 08:25:46 amWe have already talked about this a good bit. One solution proposed was one where Invictus uses the BitShares Lotto DAC and the Lotto DAC holds an AGS Style competition for the distribution (denominated in PTS). All coins can donate and receive recognition in the Genesis Block, but only 50-70% of the total Lotto ticket supply are distributed to donaters. See the following example: 20% for top donated coin (Peercoin) 15% for 2nd place10% for 3rd7.5% for 4th 5% for 5th…etc The Bitshares Lotto stores a % of funds collected (30%?) for development, burns the other donated coins and turns them into "chips" that represent their coin (for instance, PeerChips, NameChips, DarkChips, LiteChips...etc). To protect from a huge number of sh!t (read P&D) coins being donated, instate a market cap limit (no coins under ______ market cap) to ensure only the trusted (more stable) coins are donated. Now build in a feature where users who bet with Lotto Tickets gain access to an added random reward (a faucet) for the rest of the donated coins—that go directly to the user's inbox (which they can Accept, Gift to a friend or charitable institution). Win or lose your game, you are guaranteed an extra “roll” for a consolation prize in these chips. Have tables and games for each of these coins, but make Lotto Shares special because, well—none of the other coins give people the extra chance of winning a potential pot of the donated chips-- (Make the payouts relatively infrequent, but large enough to really feel like a jackpot.) Now make it Sexy: Change BitShares Lotto to BitShares Diamond Casino and Lotto Tickets to DiamondChips (they are a girl's best friend, after all) because they are the token in the ecosystem whose use awards random chips. Once the Faucet dries up for each Chip in circulation, they float at the approximate value of the coin that was burned and Diamonds will carry a premium for the wonderful distribution they provide. Make the donation period last a period of 180 Days and give people another chance (and incentive) to learn about how AGS funding and snapshots work before the launch occurs. //Genesis Block Message"Herein lies the Names and Greatest Honors for the founders and builders of Bitshares Diamonds' Casino and Lottery. A Historic Alliance was forged today by some of the most forward thinking visionaries in Cryptocurrency. The Contest has closed and the following cryptocoins will make it to "Chip" status:1st Place: 123,000 PPC for a total of 41,000 PTS (awarded 20% total BitShares Diamonds supply)2nd Place: 74,000 NMC for a total of 30703.9627039627 PTSEtc...Welcome to the first ever enterprise-level Decentralized Casino and Lottery Platform and know that you were here from the beginning. "Now make sure to set the faucet so distribution takes at least a few months so users get in a habit of playing. Let all the altcoin communities that were honored help advertise BitShares Diamond DAC (especially the number 1 donater, who was awarded as much as PTS/AGS holders). They will likely soon enough become PTS holders anyway *Final note(s):-Announce plans right after BitShares X goes live and buzz is high -Branding BitShares Diamonds early on and getting the word out is important--branding in this way also plays upon a long-time human adoration for diamonds (though their value largely relies on cartels managing the supply).-Make a play to both strengthen the value proposition for BitShares X and Bitshares Diamonds early on so the value proposition becomes; announce that a small % of BTSx will be thrown into the pool that will be distributed through BitShares Diamond Games as a special class of reward. * fuzz you da man !!! godspeed
We have already talked about this a good bit. One solution proposed was one where Invictus uses the BitShares Lotto DAC and the Lotto DAC holds an AGS Style competition for the distribution (denominated in PTS). All coins can donate and receive recognition in the Genesis Block, but only 50-70% of the total Lotto ticket supply are distributed to donaters. See the following example: 20% for top donated coin (Peercoin) 15% for 2nd place10% for 3rd7.5% for 4th 5% for 5th…etc The Bitshares Lotto stores a % of funds collected (30%?) for development, burns the other donated coins and turns them into "chips" that represent their coin (for instance, PeerChips, NameChips, DarkChips, LiteChips...etc). To protect from a huge number of sh!t (read P&D) coins being donated, instate a market cap limit (no coins under ______ market cap) to ensure only the trusted (more stable) coins are donated. Now build in a feature where users who bet with Lotto Tickets gain access to an added random reward (a faucet) for the rest of the donated coins—that go directly to the user's inbox (which they can Accept, Gift to a friend or charitable institution). Win or lose your game, you are guaranteed an extra “roll” for a consolation prize in these chips. Have tables and games for each of these coins, but make Lotto Shares special because, well—none of the other coins give people the extra chance of winning a potential pot of the donated chips-- (Make the payouts relatively infrequent, but large enough to really feel like a jackpot.) Now make it Sexy: Change BitShares Lotto to BitShares Diamond Casino and Lotto Tickets to DiamondChips (they are a girl's best friend, after all) because they are the token in the ecosystem whose use awards random chips. Once the Faucet dries up for each Chip in circulation, they float at the approximate value of the coin that was burned and Diamonds will carry a premium for the wonderful distribution they provide. Make the donation period last a period of 180 Days and give people another chance (and incentive) to learn about how AGS funding and snapshots work before the launch occurs. //Genesis Block Message"Herein lies the Names and Greatest Honors for the founders and builders of Bitshares Diamonds' Casino and Lottery. A Historic Alliance was forged today by some of the most forward thinking visionaries in Cryptocurrency. The Contest has closed and the following cryptocoins will make it to "Chip" status:1st Place: 123,000 PPC for a total of 41,000 PTS (awarded 20% total BitShares Diamonds supply)2nd Place: 74,000 NMC for a total of 30703.9627039627 PTSEtc...Welcome to the first ever enterprise-level Decentralized Casino and Lottery Platform and know that you were here from the beginning. "Now make sure to set the faucet so distribution takes at least a few months so users get in a habit of playing. Let all the altcoin communities that were honored help advertise BitShares Diamond DAC (especially the number 1 donater, who was awarded as much as PTS/AGS holders). They will likely soon enough become PTS holders anyway *Final note(s):-Announce plans right after BitShares X goes live and buzz is high -Branding BitShares Diamonds early on and getting the word out is important--branding in this way also plays upon a long-time human adoration for diamonds (though their value largely relies on cartels managing the supply).-Make a play to both strengthen the value proposition for BitShares X and Bitshares Diamonds early on so the value proposition becomes; announce that a small % of BTSx will be thrown into the pool that will be distributed through BitShares Diamond Games as a special class of reward. *
Quote from: bitbro on July 21, 2014, 01:39:26 amQuote from: luckybit on July 21, 2014, 12:18:21 amSharedrops are already proven to be successful when they simulate the sociology and psychology of mining. For example Blackcoin distributes itself through a mining pool. All we would have to do is add the lottery to the mining pool and let people mine for tickets in the lottery.An alternative is to let people mine by buying the tickets. Isn't that how we got where we are? Either we mined for protoshares with computation or with dollars. In either case only the people who really wanted the shares got it.I think when you're targeting a mining community then 5% isn't enough. It should be 50/50 or 60/40 favoring us with 10% for developers. Ideally though you want 50/50 if you can and never favor the less interested community over the more interested community. Mining communities want the perfect mining pool or a serious game which simulates the ideal mining effect. I think we are at the stage now where we need more psychologists and sociologists and less technicians. Technicians don't do marketing and Bitcoin obviously had the sociology and psychology right in the beginning.We need to recreate the same psychological and sociological impacts. If we cannot do this then we cannot expect to grow like Bitcoin.Great point Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkQuote from: fuznuts on July 18, 2014, 08:25:46 amWe have already talked about this a good bit. One solution proposed was one where Invictus uses the BitShares Lotto DAC and the Lotto DAC holds an AGS Style competition for the distribution (denominated in PTS). All coins can donate and receive recognition in the Genesis Block, but only 50-70% of the total Lotto ticket supply are distributed to donaters. See the following example: 20% for top donated coin (Peercoin) 15% for 2nd place10% for 3rd7.5% for 4th 5% for 5th…etc The Bitshares Lotto stores a % of funds collected (30%?) for development, burns the other donated coins and turns them into "chips" that represent their coin (for instance, PeerChips, NameChips, DarkChips, LiteChips...etc). To protect from a huge number of sh!t (read P&D) coins being donated, instate a market cap limit (no coins under ______ market cap) to ensure only the trusted (more stable) coins are donated. Now build in a feature where users who bet with Lotto Tickets gain access to an added random reward (a faucet) for the rest of the donated coins—that go directly to the user's inbox (which they can Accept, Gift to a friend or charitable institution). Win or lose your game, you are guaranteed an extra “roll” for a consolation prize in these chips. Have tables and games for each of these coins, but make Lotto Shares special because, well—none of the other coins give people the extra chance of winning a potential pot of the donated chips-- (Make the payouts relatively infrequent, but large enough to really feel like a jackpot.) Now make it Sexy: Change BitShares Lotto to BitShares Diamond Casino and Lotto Tickets to DiamondChips (they are a girl's best friend, after all) because they are the token in the ecosystem whose use awards random chips. Once the Faucet dries up for each Chip in circulation, they float at the approximate value of the coin that was burned and Diamonds will carry a premium for the wonderful distribution they provide. Make the donation period last a period of 180 Days and give people another chance (and incentive) to learn about how AGS funding and snapshots work before the launch occurs. //Genesis Block Message"Herein lies the Names and Greatest Honors for the founders and builders of Bitshares Diamonds' Casino and Lottery. A Historic Alliance was forged today by some of the most forward thinking visionaries in Cryptocurrency. The Contest has closed and the following cryptocoins will make it to "Chip" status:1st Place: 123,000 PPC for a total of 41,000 PTS (awarded 20% total BitShares Diamonds supply)2nd Place: 74,000 NMC for a total of 30703.9627039627 PTSEtc...Welcome to the first ever enterprise-level Decentralized Casino and Lottery Platform and know that you were here from the beginning. "Now make sure to set the faucet so distribution takes at least a few months so users get in a habit of playing. Let all the altcoin communities that were honored help advertise BitShares Diamond DAC (especially the number 1 donater, who was awarded as much as PTS/AGS holders). They will likely soon enough become PTS holders anyway *Final note(s):-Announce plans right after BitShares X goes live and buzz is high -Branding BitShares Diamonds early on and getting the word out is important--branding in this way also plays upon a long-time human adoration for diamonds (though their value largely relies on cartels managing the supply).-Make a play to both strengthen the value proposition for BitShares X and Bitshares Diamonds early on so the value proposition becomes; announce that a small % of BTSx will be thrown into the pool that will be distributed through BitShares Diamond Games as a special class of reward. * well put, bitbro
Quote from: luckybit on July 21, 2014, 12:18:21 amSharedrops are already proven to be successful when they simulate the sociology and psychology of mining. For example Blackcoin distributes itself through a mining pool. All we would have to do is add the lottery to the mining pool and let people mine for tickets in the lottery.An alternative is to let people mine by buying the tickets. Isn't that how we got where we are? Either we mined for protoshares with computation or with dollars. In either case only the people who really wanted the shares got it.I think when you're targeting a mining community then 5% isn't enough. It should be 50/50 or 60/40 favoring us with 10% for developers. Ideally though you want 50/50 if you can and never favor the less interested community over the more interested community. Mining communities want the perfect mining pool or a serious game which simulates the ideal mining effect. I think we are at the stage now where we need more psychologists and sociologists and less technicians. Technicians don't do marketing and Bitcoin obviously had the sociology and psychology right in the beginning.We need to recreate the same psychological and sociological impacts. If we cannot do this then we cannot expect to grow like Bitcoin.Great point Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sharedrops are already proven to be successful when they simulate the sociology and psychology of mining. For example Blackcoin distributes itself through a mining pool. All we would have to do is add the lottery to the mining pool and let people mine for tickets in the lottery.An alternative is to let people mine by buying the tickets. Isn't that how we got where we are? Either we mined for protoshares with computation or with dollars. In either case only the people who really wanted the shares got it.I think when you're targeting a mining community then 5% isn't enough. It should be 50/50 or 60/40 favoring us with 10% for developers. Ideally though you want 50/50 if you can and never favor the less interested community over the more interested community. Mining communities want the perfect mining pool or a serious game which simulates the ideal mining effect. I think we are at the stage now where we need more psychologists and sociologists and less technicians. Technicians don't do marketing and Bitcoin obviously had the sociology and psychology right in the beginning.We need to recreate the same psychological and sociological impacts. If we cannot do this then we cannot expect to grow like Bitcoin.
NHZ, a NXT clone made by one of the long-time bitshares forum members, is actually doing precisely this (as well as providing gateways for other DACs). Just so you know
Quote from: charleshoskinson on July 18, 2014, 01:23:31 amStrike where there is weakness and partner where there is strength. You can ask them to adopt a new coin or you can tell them you have a gift for everyone in the Nxt community- it's about how you say things. That said, what I've found from the Nxt community is that it is serving as a sink for most of the experienced java developers in the Cryptocurrency space. I honestly don't think they will recover from the botched initial distribution, but it's not stopping the devs from having fun building a more mature codebase. A pity they can't be redirected to more useful projects. May I suggest my humble opinion and say that some NXTers would appreciate if there was a direct way to but BitShares on NXT Asset exchange. Likewise, if NXTs could be purchased on BitShares decentralized exchange, that would also be brilliant.Communities would intermingle and then free competition would decide the fate of both. Without those direct gateways to exchange NXT and BitShares, users of both systems have to go through Bitcoin, which doesn't help neither NXT nor BitShares, and makes Bitcoin more useful.NXT and BitShares must establish their own exchange rate. This will happen sooner or later anyway, but I guess it would be nice if someone reputable made that happen. I would love to buy some BitShares directly for NXT without having to exchange to Bitcoins first, it's an additional inconvenient step.
Strike where there is weakness and partner where there is strength. You can ask them to adopt a new coin or you can tell them you have a gift for everyone in the Nxt community- it's about how you say things. That said, what I've found from the Nxt community is that it is serving as a sink for most of the experienced java developers in the Cryptocurrency space. I honestly don't think they will recover from the botched initial distribution, but it's not stopping the devs from having fun building a more mature codebase. A pity they can't be redirected to more useful projects.
Auroracoin example of big Sharedrop vs. alternative - If someone said to me - 'Iceland is ripe for bootstrapping a crypto-currency, they've recently experienced huge economic upheaval and still have capital controls in place. They also only have a small fairly wealthy population of only 320 000 that would be easy to effectively target.' - I would agree. But when they said we're making 'AuroraCoin' and giving 50% away in Sharedrops - I just laughed. Some (On this forum) also got excited about the guys bootstrapping Silicon Valley with a 50% Sharedrop coin, but again I find the idea crazy. (Then people say oh if only they'd done the Sharedrop this way or that way, or supported them like this, it would have been better, but I'm still mostly sceptical.) If however someone said - we're making 'ICE-Coin'Instead of a benefactor getting half the developers equity and trying to make a price floor as you're suggesting, I would have - 'We have a benefactor who's given us $250 000 for 5% equity.' $50 000 is being used to purchase 10 'ICE-Coin' branded ATM's & rent space in 10 of the most popular locations around Iceland for a year.$50 000 is being spent renting two billboards, one on the main road from the airport and one in the main high street advertising Ice-Coin for 12 months. $100 000 is being targeted at incentivising smaller retailers, hotels and travel agents to trial 'ICE-Coin' payments and advertise at their store fronts for a year. So far we have Z, B & Y on board...$50 000 is being spent on creating two Icelandic videos, one a 30 second advert which will be played on radio & TV for three months. We're giving 10% of the equity to Hagar, one of Iceland's biggest retailers in exchange for agreeing to trial ICE-Coin as a payment option for the next 12 months. 2.5% is being made available via a faucet and we're going to give 1.5% equity a year to charitable & popular Iceland based causes based on shareholder votes. 40% of equity is being divided between AGS & PTS as we are using their DPOS Blockchains and Toolkit & they provide a strong distributed base of shareholder support and ensure that our benefactor and retailers who are given equity don't have a stake that is big enough to manipulate or control the currency. We are announcing a snapshot to take place in one month from PTS allowing other interested parties to get on board and sell their PTS afterwards if they wish. The remaining 40% of the equity is being released via delegates over 5 years to be directed at activities shareholders feel is best suited to developing ICE-Coin. Now you actually have some sort of a currency that might be able to bootstrap itself in Iceland that I would consider buying. Even better news if Ice Coin launched at the same time as AuroraCoin - 'Hey guys some people think you can bootstrap a currency by giving away 50% of the equity! Obviously this will result a fairly worthless crypto but hopefully it will make some people aware of crypto-currency so the advertising will certainly be useful to us! In fact we're offering a service encouraging people to claim & quickly sell their free Auroracoins while they still have value and exchange those free Kr. into ICE-Coin - A currency which actually has a strong stable shareholder supported value, is useful within Iceland and has an effective business plan to grow and benefit Iceland.'I know most people here who favour sharedrops agree most of the previous attempts have gone about it the wrong way, but I'm just tying to communicate the idea that shareholder equity can be spent in ways other than sharedrops (though I'm not against reasonable faucets & charity of up to 5% total equity.) & the amount that would be wasted on 'free marketing' can be put to better use. And personally I would be more fearful of forks that use shareholder equity to implement a credible business plan vs. giving most of it away when AGS & PTS already gives you a strong supportive base and can bring in 100's/1000's of new people via a PTS Snapshot announcement.
QuoteHi Charles, thanks for the reply, yes it was very witch hunty/paranoid I didn't realise the benefactor would be public and tbh I misread '50% of the developers stake' to mean up to 50% of the entire stake. So I interpreted it as you were saying that the DAC would have the appearance to the market of having a high valuation and being widely distributed when really there's a clandestine whale who would now control a majority share.(Once there are many independent third party DAC's being released their strategies won't reflect on the whole BitShares ecosystem anyway.)Usually if I'm going to post an accusation or something negative on a forum I sleep on it first, probably would have been wise in this case. Apologies. No worries, I've adopted a thicker skin policy for the Bitshares forum. I think everyone- including me- needs to take a break from the past. It's unhealthy.
Hi Charles, thanks for the reply, yes it was very witch hunty/paranoid I didn't realise the benefactor would be public and tbh I misread '50% of the developers stake' to mean up to 50% of the entire stake. So I interpreted it as you were saying that the DAC would have the appearance to the market of having a high valuation and being widely distributed when really there's a clandestine whale who would now control a majority share.(Once there are many independent third party DAC's being released their strategies won't reflect on the whole BitShares ecosystem anyway.)Usually if I'm going to post an accusation or something negative on a forum I sleep on it first, probably would have been wise in this case. Apologies.
Fellas, about the OP.... rofl. We need a -5% icon.
p.s. @simeonII what you mean by "Hostile Takeover?"
Quote from: Empirical1 on July 18, 2014, 11:12:26 pmQuote from: bitbro on July 18, 2014, 09:26:56 pmI think Charles is pushing something that would severely distract from the roll out plan and short term vision. I don't like backseat driving from someone not in the car. Any bullshit share drop distribution will be looked at as a negative down the road. I wouldn't think anything of it without the back-story but there does seem to at least be the potential for corporate sabotage 101 in this thread. If you wanted to seriously damage BitShares your best bet would be to try to influence BitShares into doing something with one product that could severely damage the credibility & ethics of the whole brand... You got that right bro, serious “bullshit,” what is this asshole thinking:Quote from: charleshoskinson on July 18, 2014, 03:30:31 amSo why not just distribute amongst a basket of currencies and use it as a hook? If the coin starts to get market value, then people have a stake in protecting it and will naturally become surrogates. The keys are properly engineering the basket, the value bootstrap and consistent release cycles. The Nxt team got two of the three right, but succumbed to greed for the distribution. Ironically, if they had simply given the coin away via a snapshot distribution and bought up cheap coins during the initial launch, then they probably would have had similarly sized stakes without any fairness fallout. This action would have also created the perception of demand for Nxt, combined with clever marketing, could have made it a legitimate contender to replace bitcoin (and why not, roger will still have a lot of Nxt). The whole thing really just seems like a wasted opportunity to me. LOL !! Don’t make us laugh ass! Marketing “hook ? basket? bootstraps? release cycles?”“legitimate contender to bitcoin!” ?? wtf?Don’t sweat it team, I’ll handle this troll from here, you guys can get back to work: Stop trying to steal our coins and our code Mofo Troll Hoskinson (if that really is your real name)! You better back the Chuck up with that “free hippy love and coins communism crap.” We are the BitShares Community, and we don’t give anything to anybody (especially those less fortunate) for free, see. Even if it means that BitShares obtains global adoption and the price rises 100x like Bitcoin did in last year, we will never donate even 1% of our precious coin holdings because we do not care about making money on our investment. Our mission is to make sure that NOBODY makes any money off BitShares, especially us! “Legitimate contender to bitcoin?” We don’t want to compete with bitcoin! Get it! WE DON’T WANT PUBLICITY OR EXPOSURE ChuckFace! Especially GLOBAL EXPOSURE ! This is our party, and we will cry because we want to! It’s not that we don’t understand that marketing = math. It’s simply because we don’t need the money because we are already in the global 1% of the wealthiest human beings ever to walk this pitiful planet. And we don’t care about getting wealthier; we just don’t want to see anybody else having a good time on OUR planet with OUR coins because of OUR code! We are the global fun police, so please put the jointdown Chas. And no smiling or marketing math allowed here troll. You better leave this place now, and never show your face here again because here’s what happened to the last chuck-head that tried STARTING A THREAD about airdropping coins because it is an extremely simple and cheap way to distribute millions of units of OUR code to people throughout the globe who already own computers and have at least one “Bitcoin-crypto-type” software program pre-loaded into their machines that they are very familiar with (We don’t want to market our BitShares to people who comprehend modern cryptocurrency theory or have computers you numbskull!):Spolier alert, we told him to go chuck himself!Quote from: bytemaster on April 11, 2014, 11:26:33 pmI like the idea of honoring namecoin holders with a small percent and adding a half life to their position. I think that adding a half-life to all genesis block positions to encourage people to download the wallet and start securing the network / finding bugs. Perhaps something as simple as losing 10% per month if you do not claim your funds in the genesis block.If you wait a while you still get something, but eventually the free give aways end.I would then recommend that you give some to everyone with BTC and NMC.... this process works better if you have an easy to use wallet on launch and can use the news to generate solid first impression. Perhaps a better alternative is to give them 10% but not let them sell for 6 months. Then they will see it grow and be less likely to sell.Quote from: bytemaster on April 12, 2014, 01:29:14 amA lot of discussion on airdrops has been going on recently and I would like to add a new twist. 1) I like the half life concept... 50% drop every month until balance is below 1 BIP.2) Unclaimed air-drop funds should be sent to developers.3) Altcoin owners are likely more valuable than BTC owners because BTC-only owners are usually altcoin snobs.4) I recommend honoring all of the top 10 bitcoin-based alt-coins proportional to market cap. This will get the widest possible airdrop.5) Don't honor coins with large pre-mines... If you set this up right, the developers can avoid any accusations of 'pre-mine' because everyone had an opportunity to claim it, unclaimed funds go to devs... this also solves the problem of dead coins being honored. Ha HA! HAA ha! What a loser that dude is! Right fellas?! And what a megalomaniacal ego this ass must have to call himself:“ The Bytemaster”Ha HA! HAA ha! As if this assmaster knows anything about math or the magic of marketing! Tell us oh great (byte)MASTER who controls us centrally how do you plan to distribute your decentralized application! You are not the master here Dan, because WE are the controlling members of your community, remember you sold your soul to US, and now you are nothing but the byteslave! So shut up with those marketing ideas. What are you trying to do, market your code to the world! HA HA over our dead BitShares! You will do what your told. And we are ordering you to go against your heart, soul, feelings, and intuition. We are ordering you to Seppuku!“byteMASTER” I bet the BitShares community is supposed to follow this MASTER. Well guess what? We the BitShares community are united in our steadfast disdain over the bird-brain ideas of this “Bytemaster!” because we all uniformly agree that his airdrop marketing ideas are: Quote from: bitbro on July 18, 2014, 09:26:56 pmbullshit Which just happens to be the meme of our new BitShares T:BitShares X: “ hey planet earth, pay no attention to the bytemaster”So screw Dan’s plans. Don’t you know that math geniuses must be inept at marketing it’s the law of Tesla.http://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/entertainment-articles/in-1897-nikola-tesla-tore-up-a-contract-that-would-have-made-him-the-worlds-first-billionaire/We the BitShares community are the same group of people that prevented Tesla from realizing his dreams by keeping him poorly funded until he died (then we just stole his ideas).http://www.thrivemovement.com/nikola-tesla-s-lab-burnedWe are the Marconi gang, the ones who burned down Tesla’s workshop in order to bring our radio product to the market first:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guglielmo_MarconiSo you see Chuck, we don’t want your innovative marketing ideas, because they are identical to Dan’s ideas who we know for a fact must be a marketing idiot. We never wanted Dan’s ideas to gain exposure just like all the Tesla free energy invention plans equipment and drawings we stole before we burned his lab down. Now you are forced to use dirty nuclear energy, when you could have had free energy this whole time you suckers! So just like with Nikola, we want to watch Dan fail because we are haters (fun police). DOWN WITH DAN’S MARKETING PLANS!! Mwo ho ho ha ha ha ?!See that Charles? May I call you Charles? Nice to meet you. Sorry for all the “chuck off” jokes, I’m a comedian (and not a very good one I freely admit). I’m DA, and I speak marketing, but the BitShares Community does not. Not even Dan who has convinced them to donate to DPOS, can learn these old dogs. And yet “we” (you, Dan, and I) are the enemy because we 3 intuitively agree:Quote from: Decentralized Application on April 16, 2014, 03:23:25 amWe are taking donations to be used however we decide to. Currently, we are proposing an airdrop to Bitcoin/Keyhotee/Dogecoin/Ether holders:Bitcoin - 35%Faucet - 10%Keyhotee - 35%Peercoin - 10%Ether - 10%Ther reason we are using the term "faucet" is because the total donation pool that we receive will probably be negligable compared to the overall market cap. It won't matter if everyone dumps the shares, we are only looking to plant seeds that will hopefully inspire thousands of adopters.Quote from: Empirical1 on April 21, 2014, 12:35:00 amApologies if this is rude, but as a member for 3 weeks, you've made 33 posts & 29 of them seem to have been desperate attempts to get Bitshares to Airdrop AGS directly (Literally to anyone for any reason.) Given the elaborate, lengthy, single mindedness of your posts, as a poker player, my best guess is that competitors in this space are starting to feel a little bit threatened...See what I mean Charles? It’s like you are speaking another language when you talk marketing around these parts. And Dan is helpless because he has shackled himself to his schizophrenic community who trusts his math skills one day, but then they call him stupid the next. But what can you do, that LaMancha man is in love with his community even though they want to see him fail because they don’t support his ideas or they think that they are smarter than him. It can only be one of those two exact reasons. I just don’t care to find out which one is the true reason.Dan is married to this community who wants to see him fail, and we are his Bachelor buddies who hate watching him get wacked. Dan knows that you are correct Chuck, and he has even told his wife face to face that your idea is the truth of reality (and that marketing is just math after all):https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=455106647969436&set=vb.408134445999990&type=2&theaterBut she insists on zero charitable giving. And what can I say, he loves her. Either way, the three of us are wasting our time on this issue obviously. It’s been noted here that I’ve wasted forty something posts campaigning for my “singular vision” (I wish I had time to dig up that post), and coincidently, so have you now, actually, so, but, uh….Hey…. Wait a minute……!!!!DA has spent 40 posts begging to Airdrop to Ethereum, and now the famous Charles H himself shows up out of the blue begging for free BitShares…..Wait for it…..…I give up! You guys got me! I am Charles Hoskinson the Etherman himself!!!! Why do you think that I was begging you guys to airdrop to Ethereum until my banished breath! You selfish BitBastards have finally flushed out your true enemy!I am your enemy! I am your competition!I almost tricked you into giving away your precious BitShares!But you stayed true to your beliefs, and you win!Now you know who I REALLY AM! ………Check this out Chuck. I wanted to leave this post at that, but these fools would have wasted Dan’s time talking and spamming his workshop lab message board with People Magazine-type rumors concerning Bennifer’s new thrife, and “who this DA character REALLY is once and for all!”:Quote from: delulo on April 12, 2014, 02:25:42 amNow is Decentralized Application BM?Quote from: bitbro on April 16, 2014, 02:09:51 pmI know DA is dan but honestly I was hoping it was Satoshi Nakamoto before I realizedQuote from: bitbro on April 07, 2014, 03:10:33 pmQuote from: Agent86 on April 07, 2014, 12:49:44 pmNo. DA is not bytemaster. You're right that DA is not bytemaster, but he probably is Dan LarimerQuote from: bitbro on April 21, 2014, 12:40:51 amQuote from: Empirical1 on April 21, 2014, 12:35:00 amApologies if this is rude, but as a member for 3 weeks, you've made 33 posts & 29 of them seem to have been desperate attempts to get Bitshares to Airdrop AGS directly (Literally to anyone for any reason.) Given the elaborate, lengthy, single mindedness of your posts, as a poker player, my best guess is that competitors in this space are starting to feel a little bit threatened...DA is a charade for sure, but let me spoil the fun so we don't waste breath; DA is dan Quote from: Empirical1 on April 22, 2014, 01:40:57 amQuote from: bitbro on April 22, 2014, 01:30:16 amQuote from: bytemaster on April 21, 2014, 03:13:08 pmAnd with that cryptic response I will get back to work. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkEmpirical1, if you read between the lines here, you will see....No way dude They are not the same person. I'm 99%+ sure on that.You see Chuck, we can teach them for days, and still nothing gets through. I’ve tried explaining it to them like this: Dan, Chuck, and I are like that guy at the party who is always talking about what he is going to do, and how he plans to do it. The difference between us, is that when you are hungover the next day, we are out there executing our plans.I also preach to them basic stuff like: BitShares was designed by Dan to be about the JOURNEY to La Mancha, not about what type of horse you plan on riding in on. But again..” woosh” over their heads.Go ahead, you try Charles. I’ve taken the liberty of giving you the canned peanut gallery responseQuote from: donkeypong on April 11, 2014, 04:47:04 amDA, this is a powerful idea and I support the first mover concept. But it would need to be defined to the acceptance of this communityQuote from: CLains on April 17, 2014, 02:15:02 pmGreat initiative. However, this donation campaign funded by community holders won't get off the ground. Quote from: jwiz168 on April 12, 2014, 02:18:39 amI REALLY DON'T sink in on this . Too skeptical . Im beginning to question the real motive behind this AIRDROP.Quote from: Tradingriver on May 04, 2014, 04:22:00 pmi don't like the idea of an airdrop Quote from: luckybit on April 11, 2014, 11:07:04 pmWhy would it be a good idea to give Bitshares to people for nothing? I don't see why it's suddenly cool to give Bitcoin owners something for nothing. Quote from: jwiz168 on April 12, 2014, 02:34:08 amAs one of bitshare stockholder I hold my rights to reject this idea. A BIG no for me.Quote from: gamey on April 12, 2014, 12:11:09 amQuote from: luckybit on April 11, 2014, 11:38:59 pmWhat is the point? It seems almost like a tax and it makes no sense. There should be ways for people to earn a stake, but don't give it away for free. I've noticed that most people who hate taxes/welfare etc are mostly upset that others get something free that they worked hard for. There are lots of valid arguments against my idea. None of which are "don't do it because it is cool" or "people need to work for it".Here at BitShares, we like to control people and tell them what to do.For instance: “Everyone must work and pay for BitShares.” “Nobody may give any away for free.” We claim to be against centrally controlled tyranny, but secretly, we adore it.:“Hey you over there!” “No giving away charity coins or helping of anybody unless you make them PAY first!” That was the motto created on our first BitShares T-Shirt (want to buy one?).BitShares: Telling others what they can’t do since we learned to Tapatalk.
Quote from: bitbro on July 18, 2014, 09:26:56 pmI think Charles is pushing something that would severely distract from the roll out plan and short term vision. I don't like backseat driving from someone not in the car. Any bullshit share drop distribution will be looked at as a negative down the road. I wouldn't think anything of it without the back-story but there does seem to at least be the potential for corporate sabotage 101 in this thread. If you wanted to seriously damage BitShares your best bet would be to try to influence BitShares into doing something with one product that could severely damage the credibility & ethics of the whole brand...
I think Charles is pushing something that would severely distract from the roll out plan and short term vision. I don't like backseat driving from someone not in the car. Any bullshit share drop distribution will be looked at as a negative down the road.
So why not just distribute amongst a basket of currencies and use it as a hook? If the coin starts to get market value, then people have a stake in protecting it and will naturally become surrogates. The keys are properly engineering the basket, the value bootstrap and consistent release cycles. The Nxt team got two of the three right, but succumbed to greed for the distribution. Ironically, if they had simply given the coin away via a snapshot distribution and bought up cheap coins during the initial launch, then they probably would have had similarly sized stakes without any fairness fallout. This action would have also created the perception of demand for Nxt, combined with clever marketing, could have made it a legitimate contender to replace bitcoin (and why not, roger will still have a lot of Nxt). The whole thing really just seems like a wasted opportunity to me.
I like the idea of honoring namecoin holders with a small percent and adding a half life to their position. I think that adding a half-life to all genesis block positions to encourage people to download the wallet and start securing the network / finding bugs. Perhaps something as simple as losing 10% per month if you do not claim your funds in the genesis block.If you wait a while you still get something, but eventually the free give aways end.I would then recommend that you give some to everyone with BTC and NMC.... this process works better if you have an easy to use wallet on launch and can use the news to generate solid first impression. Perhaps a better alternative is to give them 10% but not let them sell for 6 months. Then they will see it grow and be less likely to sell.
A lot of discussion on airdrops has been going on recently and I would like to add a new twist. 1) I like the half life concept... 50% drop every month until balance is below 1 BIP.2) Unclaimed air-drop funds should be sent to developers.3) Altcoin owners are likely more valuable than BTC owners because BTC-only owners are usually altcoin snobs.4) I recommend honoring all of the top 10 bitcoin-based alt-coins proportional to market cap. This will get the widest possible airdrop.5) Don't honor coins with large pre-mines... If you set this up right, the developers can avoid any accusations of 'pre-mine' because everyone had an opportunity to claim it, unclaimed funds go to devs... this also solves the problem of dead coins being honored.
bullshit
We are taking donations to be used however we decide to. Currently, we are proposing an airdrop to Bitcoin/Keyhotee/Dogecoin/Ether holders:Bitcoin - 35%Faucet - 10%Keyhotee - 35%Peercoin - 10%Ether - 10%Ther reason we are using the term "faucet" is because the total donation pool that we receive will probably be negligable compared to the overall market cap. It won't matter if everyone dumps the shares, we are only looking to plant seeds that will hopefully inspire thousands of adopters.
Apologies if this is rude, but as a member for 3 weeks, you've made 33 posts & 29 of them seem to have been desperate attempts to get Bitshares to Airdrop AGS directly (Literally to anyone for any reason.) Given the elaborate, lengthy, single mindedness of your posts, as a poker player, my best guess is that competitors in this space are starting to feel a little bit threatened...
Now is Decentralized Application BM?
I know DA is dan but honestly I was hoping it was Satoshi Nakamoto before I realized
Quote from: Agent86 on April 07, 2014, 12:49:44 pmNo. DA is not bytemaster. You're right that DA is not bytemaster, but he probably is Dan Larimer
No. DA is not bytemaster.
Quote from: Empirical1 on April 21, 2014, 12:35:00 amApologies if this is rude, but as a member for 3 weeks, you've made 33 posts & 29 of them seem to have been desperate attempts to get Bitshares to Airdrop AGS directly (Literally to anyone for any reason.) Given the elaborate, lengthy, single mindedness of your posts, as a poker player, my best guess is that competitors in this space are starting to feel a little bit threatened...DA is a charade for sure, but let me spoil the fun so we don't waste breath; DA is dan
Quote from: bitbro on April 22, 2014, 01:30:16 amQuote from: bytemaster on April 21, 2014, 03:13:08 pmAnd with that cryptic response I will get back to work. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkEmpirical1, if you read between the lines here, you will see....No way dude They are not the same person. I'm 99%+ sure on that.
Quote from: bytemaster on April 21, 2014, 03:13:08 pmAnd with that cryptic response I will get back to work. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkEmpirical1, if you read between the lines here, you will see....
And with that cryptic response I will get back to work. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DA, this is a powerful idea and I support the first mover concept. But it would need to be defined to the acceptance of this community
Great initiative. However, this donation campaign funded by community holders won't get off the ground.
I REALLY DON'T sink in on this . Too skeptical . Im beginning to question the real motive behind this AIRDROP.
i don't like the idea of an airdrop
Why would it be a good idea to give Bitshares to people for nothing? I don't see why it's suddenly cool to give Bitcoin owners something for nothing.
As one of bitshare stockholder I hold my rights to reject this idea. A BIG no for me.
Quote from: luckybit on April 11, 2014, 11:38:59 pmWhat is the point? It seems almost like a tax and it makes no sense. There should be ways for people to earn a stake, but don't give it away for free. I've noticed that most people who hate taxes/welfare etc are mostly upset that others get something free that they worked hard for. There are lots of valid arguments against my idea. None of which are "don't do it because it is cool" or "people need to work for it".
What is the point? It seems almost like a tax and it makes no sense. There should be ways for people to earn a stake, but don't give it away for free.
Quote from: fuznuts on July 18, 2014, 07:58:51 pmQuote- Lottery players as a 'general' demographic are instant gratification junkies so the avg. one won't donate. That is a good point. Which is precisely why increasing the value proposition while coupling it with the marketing could be a winner...Thanks for the detailed responses Luckybit & Fuznuts, I'll look at those points a bit later. It sounds interesting & I guess this is a separate DAC idea to the main BitShares Lotto roll out though? If so then I don't think there's any harm in trying good original ideas like this.
Quote- Lottery players as a 'general' demographic are instant gratification junkies so the avg. one won't donate. That is a good point. Which is precisely why increasing the value proposition while coupling it with the marketing could be a winner...
- Lottery players as a 'general' demographic are instant gratification junkies so the avg. one won't donate.
What the hell are you talking about?You just publicly say – We strongly believe in the value of our company. To prove that we will use up to that and that dollar amount to buy back our shares from everybody willing to sell. What PR nightmare?
I wouldn't think anything of it without the back-story but there does seem to at least be the potential for corporate sabotage 101 in this thread.If you wanted to seriously damage BitShares your best bet would be to try to influence BitShares into doing something with one product that could severely damage the credibility & ethics of the whole brand... Quote from: charleshoskinson on July 18, 2014, 03:30:31 am The Nxt team got two of the three right, but succumbed to greed for the distribution. Ironically, if they had simply given the coin away via a snapshot distribution and bought up cheap coins during the initial launch, then they probably would have had similarly sized stakes without any fairness fallout. This action would have also created the perception of demand for Nxt, combined with clever marketing, could have made it a legitimate contender to replace bitcoin (and why not, roger will still have a lot of Nxt).Quote from: charleshoskinson on July 18, 2014, 08:14:10 pmFind a wealthy benefactor to bootstrap the development and to set a price floor during the launch of the coin receiving 50 percent of the developer's stake as collateral. Seems like a pretty easy way to bootstrap a legitimate competitor of bitcoin. . Which they wouldn't. Both those seem to involve suggestions for potentially deceiving the market via potential price or perceived fairness manipulation. Obviously that would be a PR trap/nightmare if there was any indication BitShares used and perhaps even contemplated them as a strategyBut in future when there are fair share-drops and high natural valuations, if enough people respond positively to other parts of Charle's ideas in this thread then it may be enough to for detractors to link back to, to suggest that BitShares has seriously considered and therefore may be going about business in an underhanded way. ('They're only doing sharedrops to be perceived as fair and then buying up big stakes for nearly free', or that the 'DAC's have high prices because BitShares has whales artificially supporting them' etc.)It's probably nothing, but then again it could be...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE (Just the Beasties boys sabotage song)
The Nxt team got two of the three right, but succumbed to greed for the distribution. Ironically, if they had simply given the coin away via a snapshot distribution and bought up cheap coins during the initial launch, then they probably would have had similarly sized stakes without any fairness fallout. This action would have also created the perception of demand for Nxt, combined with clever marketing, could have made it a legitimate contender to replace bitcoin (and why not, roger will still have a lot of Nxt).
Find a wealthy benefactor to bootstrap the development and to set a price floor during the launch of the coin receiving 50 percent of the developer's stake as collateral. Seems like a pretty easy way to bootstrap a legitimate competitor of bitcoin.
I think Charles is pushing something that would severely distract from the roll out plan and short term vision
Wealthy benefactor here lost me....why a wealthy benefactor for a coin that could be launched without any such ties?
Charles have you invested in the Bts ecosystem? Last you mentioned it, you had no dog in the fight. I don't like backseat driving, but I much less prefer back seat driving from someone not in the car than from a passenger. If you're a concerned investor let us know
How do you determine which bitcoin, litecoin, nxt, mastercoin or counterparty holders want it if you don't make them prove their interest?
Both those seem to involve suggestions for potentially deceiving the market via potential price or perceived fairness manipulation. Obviously that would be a PR trap/nightmare if there was any indication BitShares used and perhaps even contemplated them as a strategy. Which they wouldn't.
Any bullshit share drop distribution will be looked at as a negative down the road
I think Charles is pushing something that would severely distract from the roll out plan and short term visionSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: charleshoskinson on July 18, 2014, 08:14:10 pmQuoteThe DPOScoin is a good idea, perhaps with another name. Depos? Deco?Can be promoted with "get your Deco stake!" and "particiapte in democratic delegation!"10% inflation to produce worlds first "democratic, self-sustaining and eco-friendly cryptocurrency"The key is to understand that this coin would be net value creation. The Bitshares X stakes have already been set in stone. A DPOS coin would allow for testing of the underlying technology without any impact on the original Bitshares launch plan. Give part of the distribution to the developers and the rest amongst the bitcoin, litecoin, nextcoin, mastercoin and counterparty holders. Find a wealthy benefactor to bootstrap the development and to set a price floor during the launch of the coin receiving 50 percent of the developer's stake as collateral. Seems like a pretty easy way to bootstrap a legitimate competitor of bitcoin. Charles have you invested in the Bts ecosystem? Last you mentioned it, you had no dog in the fight. I don't like backseat driving, but I much less prefer back seat driving from someone not in the car than from a passenger. If you're a concerned investor let us knowSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
QuoteThe DPOScoin is a good idea, perhaps with another name. Depos? Deco?Can be promoted with "get your Deco stake!" and "particiapte in democratic delegation!"10% inflation to produce worlds first "democratic, self-sustaining and eco-friendly cryptocurrency"The key is to understand that this coin would be net value creation. The Bitshares X stakes have already been set in stone. A DPOS coin would allow for testing of the underlying technology without any impact on the original Bitshares launch plan. Give part of the distribution to the developers and the rest amongst the bitcoin, litecoin, nextcoin, mastercoin and counterparty holders. Find a wealthy benefactor to bootstrap the development and to set a price floor during the launch of the coin receiving 50 percent of the developer's stake as collateral. Seems like a pretty easy way to bootstrap a legitimate competitor of bitcoin.
The DPOScoin is a good idea, perhaps with another name. Depos? Deco?Can be promoted with "get your Deco stake!" and "particiapte in democratic delegation!"10% inflation to produce worlds first "democratic, self-sustaining and eco-friendly cryptocurrency"
- It looks like everybody wins a lot with that model but I suspect only one coin will and it may not even be the coin that wins 20%. (By example LottoShares gave 10% to PTS and 10% to MMC which seemed fair and was probably coming from a fair place, but because MMC is only a $70k CAP if you like the LottoShares DAC you would have done better buying MMC to gain access to it. PTS would have lost by supporting and promoting it before the snapshot. Similarly in your model, whichever coingets the biggest % relative to their market CAP is the one that would support your diamond system I 'think', other coins may lose by supporting/promoting it.)
- Lottery players want the coin with the biggest jackpots, so they will play with the highest CAP/Jackpot coin, a lotto coin that kept most of the shares for a strong supportive community would have a better starting CAP than one that was giving away too much free equity imo.
- In general if you're starting a crypto-currency the idea of fairness is very important, but as we move into DAC's & businesses it's going to be mainly about just having enough initial distribution to avoid manipulation and control. (Shareholders want profit and a coin that spends it's equity on development, marketing, customer service etc. will be a better business than one giving too much of it's equity away imo.)
However that's why I like BM's 10/10 80% released via delegates model or even a 25/25 50% via delegates model, because shareholders can see which ideas work best and move towards doing more of that for a lot of these coins.
Edit: Also if you were targeting lotto players and gamblers, we're close to the point where crypto-currency is becoming accessible enough that rather than targetting the sub-demographic of gamblers within alt-coin communities, you'd probably do better awarding it to members of gambling/lottery sites & forums.
I also assume AGS/PTS gets a starting stake in that coin. So any other community would ask why would we donate money to help build a coin you are getting for free?
I think these things can be worth a try, but some issues I see with that - Lottery players as a 'general' demographic are instant gratification junkies so the avg. one won't donate.
- Lottery players want the coin with the biggest jackpots, so they will play with the highest CAP/Jackpot coin, a lotto coin that kept most of the shares for a strong supportive community would have a better starting CAP than one that was giving away too much free equity imo.Edit: Also if you were targeting lotto players and gamblers, we're close to the point where crypto-currency is becoming accessible enough that rather than targetting the sub-demographic of gamblers within alt-coin communities, you'd probably do better awarding it to members of gambling/lottery sites & forums.
sometimes it feels to me that people overestimate the effect of percieved unfairness. in the end this is a capitalist system where people are cynical, or at least the people who are least swayed by and can see straight through the "talk" and "rumors" end up with the most money.there seems to be a split in the crypto community, on the one hand people thinking NXT, Ripple, Gnash, etc. will fail just because they are unfair to some extent. but this is not how the space operates. at least so far, the incentives are not yet there to punish people who are unfair. investors gonna invest, and it is the economically rational ones who grow their power. everyone else are just talking to the air.
Quote from: luckybit on July 18, 2014, 11:25:38 amQuote from: bitbro on July 18, 2014, 11:20:15 amAny bullshit share drop distribution will be looked at as a negative down the road Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI agree. They have to show actually want it. You must make them apply or sign up or opt in. Kind of like if you put a new coin on an exchange and there was no demand for it then nothing happens. It has to be something people from the other community are proven to have shown interest in.When two communities have a lot in common already then its easy to know what they might be interested in (PoS communities have similar interests and goals). When it's Proof of Work then it's not going to be as straight forward because there is more social distance between the two communities. Social distance makes collaboration more difficult.Changed it, does this look better?Quote from: fuznuts on July 18, 2014, 08:25:46 amWe have already talked about this a good bit. One solution proposed was one where Invictus uses the BitShares Lotto DAC and the Lotto DAC holds an AGS Style competition for the distribution (denominated in PTS). All coins can donate and receive recognition in the Genesis Block, but only 50-70% of the total Lotto ticket supply are distributed to donaters. See the following example: 20% for top donated coin (Peercoin) 15% for 2nd place10% for 3rd7.5% for 4th 5% for 5th…etc The Bitshares Lotto stores a % of funds collected (30%?) for development, burns the other donated coins and turns them into "chips" that represent their coin (for instance, PeerChips, NameChips, DarkChips, LiteChips...etc). To protect from a huge number of sh!t (read P&D) coins being donated, instate a market cap limit (no coins under ______ market cap) to ensure only the trusted (more stable) coins are donated. Now build in a feature where users who bet with Lotto Tickets gain access to an added random reward (a faucet) for the rest of the donated coins—that go directly to the user's inbox (which they can Accept, Gift to a friend or charitable institution. Win or lose your game, you are guaranteed an extra “roll” for a consolation prize in these chips. Have tables and games for each of these coins, but make Lotto Shares special because, well—none of the other coins give people the extra chance of winning a potential pot of the donated chips. (Make the payouts relatively infrequent, but large enough to really feel like a jackpot. Now make it Sexy: Change BitShares Lotto to BitShares Diamond Casino and Lotto Tickets to DiamondChips (they are a girl's best friend, after all) because they are the token in the ecosystem whose use awards random chips. Once the Faucet dries up for each Chip in circulation, they float at the approximate value of the coin that was burned and Diamonds will carry a premium for the wonderful distribution they provide. Make the donation period last a period of 180 Days and give people another chance (and incentive) to learn about how AGS funding and snapshots work before the launch occurs. //Genesis Block Message"Herein lies the Names and Greatest Honors for the founders and builders of Bitshares Diamonds' Casino and Lottery. A Historic Alliance was forged today by some of the most forward thinking visionaries in Cryptocurrency. The Contest has closed and the following cryptocoins will make it to "Chip" status:1st Place: 123,000 PPC for a total of 41,000 PTS (awarded 20% total BitShares Diamonds supply)2nd Place: 74,000 NMC for a total of 30703.9627039627 PTSEtc...Welcome to the first ever enterprise-level Decentralized Casino and Lottery Platform and know that you were here from the beginning. "Now make sure to set the faucet so distribution takes at least a few months so users get in a habit of playing. Let all the altcoin communities that were honored help advertise BitShares Diamond DAC (especially the number 1 donater, who was awarded as much as PTS/AGS holders). They will likely soon enough become PTS holders anyway *Final note(s):-Announce plans right after BitShares X goes live and buzz is high -Branding BitShares Diamonds early on and getting the word out is important--branding in this way also plays upon a long-time human adoration for diamonds (though their value largely relies on cartels managing the supply).-Make a play to both strengthen the value proposition for BitShares X and Bitshares Diamonds early on so the value proposition becomes; announce that a small % of BTSx will be thrown into the pool that will be distributed through BitShares Diamond Games as a special class of reward. *
Quote from: bitbro on July 18, 2014, 11:20:15 amAny bullshit share drop distribution will be looked at as a negative down the road Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI agree. They have to show actually want it. You must make them apply or sign up or opt in. Kind of like if you put a new coin on an exchange and there was no demand for it then nothing happens. It has to be something people from the other community are proven to have shown interest in.When two communities have a lot in common already then its easy to know what they might be interested in (PoS communities have similar interests and goals). When it's Proof of Work then it's not going to be as straight forward because there is more social distance between the two communities. Social distance makes collaboration more difficult.
Any bullshit share drop distribution will be looked at as a negative down the road Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have already talked about this a good bit. One solution proposed was one where Invictus uses the BitShares Lotto DAC and the Lotto DAC holds an AGS Style competition for the distribution (denominated in PTS). All coins can donate and receive recognition in the Genesis Block, but only 50-70% of the total Lotto ticket supply are distributed to donaters. See the following example: 20% for top donated coin (Peercoin) 15% for 2nd place10% for 3rd7.5% for 4th 5% for 5th…etc The Bitshares Lotto stores a % of funds collected (30%?) for development, burns the other donated coins and turns them into "chips" that represent their coin (for instance, PeerChips, NameChips, DarkChips, LiteChips...etc). To protect from a huge number of sh!t (read P&D) coins being donated, instate a market cap limit (no coins under ______ market cap) to ensure only the trusted (more stable) coins are donated. Now build in a feature where users who bet with Lotto Tickets gain access to an added random reward (a faucet) for the rest of the donated coins—that go directly to the user's inbox (which they can Accept, Gift to a friend or charitable institution. Win or lose your game, you are guaranteed an extra “roll” for a consolation prize in these chips. Have tables and games for each of these coins, but make Lotto Shares special because, well—none of the other coins give people the extra chance of winning a potential pot of the donated chips. (Make the payouts relatively infrequent, but large enough to really feel like a jackpot. Now make it Sexy: Change BitShares Lotto to BitShares Diamond Casino and Lotto Tickets to DiamondChips (they are a girl's best friend, after all) because they are the token in the ecosystem whose use awards random chips. Once the Faucet dries up for each Chip in circulation, they float at the approximate value of the coin that was burned and Diamonds will carry a premium for the wonderful distribution they provide. Make the donation period last a period of 180 Days and give people another chance (and incentive) to learn about how AGS funding and snapshots work before the launch occurs. //Genesis Block Message"Herein lies the Names and Greatest Honors for the founders and builders of Bitshares Diamonds' Casino and Lottery. A Historic Alliance was forged today by some of the most forward thinking visionaries in Cryptocurrency. The Contest has closed and the following cryptocoins will make it to "Chip" status:1st Place: 123,000 PPC for a total of 41,000 PTS (awarded 20% total BitShares Diamonds supply)2nd Place: 74,000 NMC for a total of 30703.9627039627 PTSEtc...Welcome to the first ever enterprise-level Decentralized Casino and Lottery Platform and know that you were here from the beginning. "Now make sure to set the faucet so distribution takes at least a few months so users get in a habit of playing. Let all the altcoin communities that were honored help advertise BitShares Diamond DAC (especially the number 1 donater, who was awarded as much as PTS/AGS holders). They will likely soon enough become PTS holders anyway *Final note(s):-Announce plans right after BitShares X goes live and buzz is high -Branding BitShares Diamonds early on and getting the word out is important--branding in this way also plays upon a long-time human adoration for diamonds (though their value largely relies on cartels managing the supply).-Make a play to both strengthen the value proposition for BitShares X and Bitshares Diamonds early on so the value proposition becomes; announce that a small % of BTSx will be thrown into the pool that will be distributed through BitShares Diamond Games as a special class of reward. *
Quote from: Empirical1 on July 18, 2014, 02:43:12 amI'm pretty much for trying these ideas but I would say it's essentially what NEM tried to do for NXT (Solve NXT's botched initial distribution problem, invite them & the other communities to get free stakes, even had support of some NXT devs.) But even before the recent controversy it looked like it was achieving limited success vs. the original.$1500 for free stake in not launched coin is limited success for you?
I'm pretty much for trying these ideas but I would say it's essentially what NEM tried to do for NXT (Solve NXT's botched initial distribution problem, invite them & the other communities to get free stakes, even had support of some NXT devs.) But even before the recent controversy it looked like it was achieving limited success vs. the original.
Quote from: bitbro on July 18, 2014, 11:45:50 amif you're going to do a share drop to everybody then do a faucet. It looks half as bad and nobody who's interested, or becomes interested later, will feel excluded Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe reason for the plan as it was originally figured out was to give other coins the ability to be honored in much the same way Bitcoin was by BTSX--only in a way that would provide a more inclusive user/developer base as well as honoring other "coins" that have worked hard to build a solid product. This would essentially make the DAC a strong, autonomous marketing tool (which is needed), and a way to distribute shares of other DACs. Plus, the Benefits of this DAC being part of the BitShares ecosystem means that it has significant advantages over other coin lottos...As far as people getting something for nothing...most of the people Share-dropped to in this manner would be those members initially involved in donating so that shouldn't be considered unfair. It would also serve to give people incentive to complete all the steps Invictus needs users to complete in order to gain access to this DAC. Of course, this DAC could also later award shares in other DACs (after the other coin faucets dry up).
if you're going to do a share drop to everybody then do a faucet. It looks half as bad and nobody who's interested, or becomes interested later, will feel excluded Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Some more details on this particular project:The goal is only one per person. I want to add SMS verification. I want to add Referral Rewards I want to integrate this service with our wallet.The service should not store email addresses after sending emails, only the hash of the email addresses. The factors that prove uniqueness:1) email2) phone3) gravatar accountIf someone wants to fake all 3 then that is fine.I would like to support finding friends on Google / Facebook for 'automatic referral'.So if someone you refer ends up signing up you get a bonus. Now we have financial incentive for people to sign up unique individuals and to refer their friends. New users will be able to use our DACs without ever having to see or know about the existence of public keys / private keys.
QuoteSome people had similar ideas. I believe the general consensus was it is too aggressive and we should ask them thirst … my opinion is more close to yours btw.Strike where there is weakness and partner where there is strength. You can ask them to adopt a new coin or you can tell them you have a gift for everyone in the Nxt community- it's about how you say things. That said, what I've found from the Nxt community is that it is serving as a sink for most of the experienced java developers in the Cryptocurrency space. I honestly don't think they will recover from the botched initial distribution, but it's not stopping the devs from having fun building a more mature codebase. A pity they can't be redirected to more useful projects.
Some people had similar ideas. I believe the general consensus was it is too aggressive and we should ask them thirst … my opinion is more close to yours btw.
QuoteIn order to grow, business owners typically hold strong to their shares as much as possible and pump the services, capabilities and products of their business. If crypto "currency" were actually valuable because of the service it performs, then we wouldn't need to give away ownership.The mining subsidy of bitcoin isn't directly felt due to the non-linear increase in demand versus the rather linear increase in supply. Combined with the enormous network effect, you have a problem that consumers will typically stay with the sub-optimal standard. Asking people to migrate to a better standard when the old one is still making them money and sufficient for the needs of value transactions is a tough nut to crack. One can say hey we are better for the following reasons (I think apple did it best ->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNnX6XRQBec), but ultimately, consumers are lazy.Getting people to do something new usually requires a hook of some kind. With proof of stake, you have to premine the supply. So why not just distribute amongst a basket of currencies and use it as a hook? If the coin starts to get market value, then people have a stake in protecting it and will naturally become surrogates. The keys are properly engineering the basket, the value bootstrap and consistent release cycles. The Nxt team got two of the three right, but succumbed to greed for the distribution. Ironically, if they had simply given the coin away via a snapshot distribution and bought up cheap coins during the initial launch, then they probably would have had similarly sized stakes without any fairness fallout. This action would have also created the perception of demand for Nxt, combined with clever marketing, could have made it a legitimate contender to replace bitcoin (and why not, roger will still have a lot of Nxt).The whole thing really just seems like a wasted opportunity to me.
In order to grow, business owners typically hold strong to their shares as much as possible and pump the services, capabilities and products of their business. If crypto "currency" were actually valuable because of the service it performs, then we wouldn't need to give away ownership.
Quote from: Empirical1 on July 18, 2014, 02:43:12 amQuote from: jae208 on July 18, 2014, 02:16:43 amQuote from: charleshoskinson on July 18, 2014, 01:23:31 amQuoteSome people had similar ideas. I believe the general consensus was it is too aggressive and we should ask them thirst … my opinion is more close to yours btw.Strike where there is weakness and partner where there is strength. You can ask them to adopt a new coin or you can tell them you have a gift for everyone in the Nxt community- it's about how you say things. That said, what I've found from the Nxt community is that it is serving as a sink for most of the experienced java developers in the Cryptocurrency space. I honestly don't think they will recover from the botched initial distribution, but it's not stopping the devs from having fun building a more mature codebase. A pity they can't be redirected to more useful projects. Love this post! It's about how you say things and how others perceive you. If we come across as generous they will board our ship.I'm pretty much for trying these ideas but I would say it's essentially what NEM tried to do for NXT (Solve NXT's botched initial distribution problem, invite them & the other communities to get free stakes, even had support of some NXT devs.) But even before the recent controversy it looked like it was achieving limited success vs. the original. In order to grow, business owners typically hold strong to their shares as much as possible and pump the services, capabilities and products of their business. If crypto "currency" were actually valuable because of the service it performs, then we wouldn't need to give away ownership.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: jae208 on July 18, 2014, 02:16:43 amQuote from: charleshoskinson on July 18, 2014, 01:23:31 amQuoteSome people had similar ideas. I believe the general consensus was it is too aggressive and we should ask them thirst … my opinion is more close to yours btw.Strike where there is weakness and partner where there is strength. You can ask them to adopt a new coin or you can tell them you have a gift for everyone in the Nxt community- it's about how you say things. That said, what I've found from the Nxt community is that it is serving as a sink for most of the experienced java developers in the Cryptocurrency space. I honestly don't think they will recover from the botched initial distribution, but it's not stopping the devs from having fun building a more mature codebase. A pity they can't be redirected to more useful projects. Love this post! It's about how you say things and how others perceive you. If we come across as generous they will board our ship.I'm pretty much for trying these ideas but I would say it's essentially what NEM tried to do for NXT (Solve NXT's botched initial distribution problem, invite them & the other communities to get free stakes, even had support of some NXT devs.) But even before the recent controversy it looked like it was achieving limited success vs. the original.
Quote from: charleshoskinson on July 18, 2014, 01:23:31 amQuoteSome people had similar ideas. I believe the general consensus was it is too aggressive and we should ask them thirst … my opinion is more close to yours btw.Strike where there is weakness and partner where there is strength. You can ask them to adopt a new coin or you can tell them you have a gift for everyone in the Nxt community- it's about how you say things. That said, what I've found from the Nxt community is that it is serving as a sink for most of the experienced java developers in the Cryptocurrency space. I honestly don't think they will recover from the botched initial distribution, but it's not stopping the devs from having fun building a more mature codebase. A pity they can't be redirected to more useful projects. Love this post! It's about how you say things and how others perceive you. If we come across as generous they will board our ship.
It should not be that hard for java devs to code in C++. But this is not my area of expertise.
QuoteI wouldn't write Nxt off so easily. They are likely going to outlast Bitcoin and will be our biggest competitor for a while.Dan is correct. Nxt has a persistent community, some good developers and are a few forks away from being a legitimate replacement for Bitcoin. Translation, you guys should launch a bitcoin replacement currency using DPOS and Titan that splits distribution amongst the most popular coins and AGS. Steal the Nxt community via outreach and innovation.
I wouldn't write Nxt off so easily. They are likely going to outlast Bitcoin and will be our biggest competitor for a while.
Re: Anyone else have a feeling NXT is about to explode?Today at 10:37:05 PM #162I think some of us are missing the point here: all of the features of both NXT and Ripple are open-source concepts, anyone can implement them and in many cases it's kind of difficult to figure out who originally came up with a particular concept. So to say that x is copying y is a fairly pointless game, like saying that Ford are copying Nissan by putting wheels on their cars......NXT is revolutionary not because of any specific feature set, but because NXT has been designed from the ground up to be a platform for other applications, not just a currency.This means that if you can come up with a concept, you can probably figure out a way to implement it on NXT. Just take a quick look at the list of projects that NXT is already supporting:https://nxtforum.org/nxt-projects/And we haven't even got on to the features list/road-map yet....