BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: JonnyB on April 20, 2017, 09:23:43 pm
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Each witness is getting paid $1200+ because of the price rise.
They used to get 1.5 bts per block but this was doubled this year because the bitshares price was so low.
Now the bitshares price has nearly tripled so has the witnesses pay and every witness is receiving $1200+ worth of BTS every month!
A long term fix would be if an agreed $ payment could be paid to them in BTS each month. But that idea deserves its own post.
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Let's vote in more witnesses.
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Let's vote in more witnesses.
You are are a witness so are bias.
You are also a committee member which has me thinking if too many witnesses are committee members there will be a considerable conflict of interest when it comes to witness pay. hmmmmmmm
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Let's vote in more witnesses.
You are are a witness so are bias.
You are also a committee member which has me thinking if too many witnesses are committee members there will be a considerable conflict of interest when it comes to witness pay. hmmmmmmm
I was talking as a stake holder. "Let's vote".
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Let's vote in more witnesses.
You are are a witness so are bias.
You are also a committee member which has me thinking if too many witnesses are committee members there will be a considerable conflict of interest when it comes to witness pay. hmmmmmmm
I was talking as a stake holder. "Let's vote".
good point.
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Most probably run on cheap servers. I seriously doubt any witness provides a service worth $500 a month, let alone $1200
Cut it down, if they're not happy, let them leave, true supporters will stay as they clearly will still make a profit and new ones will come. Whoever leaves because of that it's because it wasn't dedicated enough to support the network either way. Let competition kick in.
$1200 is an absurd, if they want more apply for a worker.
Are witnesses even paying for feeds from an accurate source or something?
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Should we raise this question again next week if BTS prise drops to what it was a month ago?
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If I had a chance, I will redesign the fee system.
1. change all fee asset from BTS to FEESUSD which belong to committee. all fees will priced on this FEESUSD.
committee only need to sell FEESUSD for bitUSD to increase the supply .
2. all witness and worker will get payment in FEESUSD.
if you don't have faith in Bitshares, or if Bitshares can't get enough users, the FEESUSD is rubbish,
in the other hand, the FEESUSD is exactly 1 USD's worth.
3. no new BTS need create. committee can use bitUSD to buyback BTS and burn it to give back profit to all BTS holders.
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DEX is build on BitShares and therefore I think witnesses should be paid in BTS (witnesses pay for price feeds in BTS). But maybe we can come up with a 30 or 45 day moving average for BTS:USD price and the Committee can adjust the BTS pay as required. But I've said all along that witnessing should not be a business but responsibility to the community, so witnesses are maintaining infrastructure because their business relays on DEX not because they want to get paid as witnesses. We should lower the witness pay as the BTS:USD price goes up so the BTS reserve stops declining and we can continue to maintain DEX as designed.
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In favor of the cut maybe this process should be automatic.
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Please, invest in badass api nodes, raise the standarts. There is not much to choose from and it is super frustrating seeing init error.
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If I had a chance, I will redesign the fee system.
1. change all fee asset from BTS to FEESUSD which belong to committee. all fees will priced on this FEESUSD.
committee only need to sell FEESUSD for bitUSD to increase the supply .
2. all witness and worker will get payment in FEESUSD.
if you don't have faith in Bitshares, or if Bitshares can't get enough users, the FEESUSD is rubbish,
in the other hand, the FEESUSD is exactly 1 USD's worth.
3. no new BTS need create. committee can use bitUSD to buyback BTS and burn it to give back profit to all BTS holders.
Who would work for a worthless UIA with no collateral or leverage value?
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I am fine to reduce the witness payment to 1.5 BTS/block.
on the other hand, I hope more witnesses can be voted as active, I don't understand why now we have much less active witnesses than before.
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If I had a chance, I will redesign the fee system.
1. change all fee asset from BTS to FEESUSD which belong to committee. all fees will priced on this FEESUSD.
committee only need to sell FEESUSD for bitUSD to increase the supply .
2. all witness and worker will get payment in FEESUSD.
if you don't have faith in Bitshares, or if Bitshares can't get enough users, the FEESUSD is rubbish,
in the other hand, the FEESUSD is exactly 1 USD's worth.
3. no new BTS need create. committee can use bitUSD to buyback BTS andT burn it to give back profit to all BTS holders.
Who would work for a worthless UIA with no collateral or leverage value?
why do you think it's worthless if it can be used as the fee?
fiat USD is create backed by the future USA tax income.
FEEUSD is create backed by the future BTS fees income.
it's fair, you want get payment from Bitshares you must have faith on FEEUSD.
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Should we raise this question again next week if BTS prise drops to what it was a month ago?
Make it dynamic. We have USD feeds so use that to make the chain adapt and pay the equivalent of X USD worth of BTS. That way even if price changes witnesses will get roughly the same dollar value every month.
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Should we raise this question again next week if BTS prise drops to what it was a month ago?
Make it dynamic. We have USD feeds so use that to make the chain adapt and pay the equivalent of X USD worth of BTS. That way even if price changes witnesses will get roughly the same dollar value every month.
Agree. We have a price feed, let's use it for good. What are those "smart" contracts worth if we can't use them to fix witness wages?
The only obstacle I see here is witnesses collude and start manipulating the feed, because they all benefit from this.
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Support this point.
It is more reasonable for witness, who is technical man, to be paid constantly in bitUSD, so that they can pay the bill of server, and don't worry about the price fluctuation.
I would suggest we make a hard fork for this. Our system hasn't been updated for a long long time.
If I had a chance, I will redesign the fee system.
1. change all fee asset from BTS to FEESUSD which belong to committee. all fees will priced on this FEESUSD.
committee only need to sell FEESUSD for bitUSD to increase the supply .
2. all witness and worker will get payment in FEESUSD.
if you don't have faith in Bitshares, or if Bitshares can't get enough users, the FEESUSD is rubbish,
in the other hand, the FEESUSD is exactly 1 USD's worth.
3. no new BTS need create. committee can use bitUSD to buyback BTS and burn it to give back profit to all BTS holders.
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Please, invest in badass api nodes, raise the standarts. There is not much to choose from and it is super frustrating seeing init error.
Witnesses do not provide api nodes. They could of course do so as an additional service to justify their current high pay, but it's not part of the job description.
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Please, invest in badass api nodes, raise the standarts. There is not much to choose from and it is super frustrating seeing init error.
Witnesses do not provide api nodes. They could of course do so as an additional service to justify their current high pay, but it's not part of the job description.
I have been providing an api node ( wss://altcap.io/ws ) and web wallet ( altcap.io (http://altcap.io) ) for some considerable time.
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@ripplexiaoshan What in case of USD black swan?
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@ripplexiaoshan What in case of USD black swan?
That is like saying what if the internet where to go down. Sure theoretically possible, but it seems if this robust system of BitShares cannot run bitUSD correctly then we should be working on something else. I currently manage 10k of bitUSD with BTS collateral. I can promise you that is plenty of incentive for me to make sure a black swan doesn't occur.
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Please, invest in badass api nodes, raise the standarts. There is not much to choose from and it is super frustrating seeing init error.
Witnesses do not provide api nodes. They could of course do so as an additional service to justify their current high pay, but it's not part of the job description.
I have been providing an api node ( wss://altcap.io/ws ) and web wallet ( altcap.io (http://altcap.io) ) for some considerable time.
I appreciate it, wish more witnesses did
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Please, invest in badass api nodes, raise the standarts. There is not much to choose from and it is super frustrating seeing init error.
Witnesses do not provide api nodes. They could of course do so as an additional service to justify their current high pay, but it's not part of the job description.
I have been providing an api node ( wss://altcap.io/ws ) and web wallet ( altcap.io (http://altcap.io) ) for some considerable time.
I appreciate it, wish more witnesses did
I am planning to add another server this week and will work on price feeds and additional services for the community. (planning to have an update first week of May)
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This strall poll seems pretty conclusive. When will the committee act to reduce witness pay?
@xeroc @bitcrab @Chris4210 @fav @BunkerChain Labs @abit @clayop @ebit @Bhuz @Harvey
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I think it would be appropriate if the committee published a policy about when adjustments of this kind should be done, for example based on % rise in BTS price and for what period of time that % change must persist.
I agree, it needs to be done, but how frequently? When the volatility in crypto they might change it and the next week it's no longer set to an "appropriate" level.
This bull market has been going on now for about 2 months, but it didn't get there overnight. I'd say the pay has been too high for about a month or so, just looking at the rate of increase. You shouldn't expect the committee to make adjustments to this frequently. It does point out another advantage to paying out in BitUSD as opposed to BTS, in which case the committee can set the pay rate directly and it will remain constant irrespective of the price of BTS.
What is a reasonable pay rate for witnesses? This poll seems to suggest $600 / month is reasonable. If new accounts and transactions continue to increase witnesses will need to add more nodes or the shareholders need to wake up and start to vote in more witnesses, and the trend is currently heading in the opposite direction.
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This strall poll seems pretty conclusive. When will the committee act to reduce witness pay?
@xeroc @bitcrab @Chris4210 @fav @BunkerChain Labs @abit @clayop @ebit @Bhuz @Harvey
develop a way to peg fees to usd and a smartcontract that could check the peg every 24hours or so and amend the fees accordingly.
I won't go through the hassle and re-allocate the fees every time there is a pump or dump.
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Should we raise this question again next week if BTS prise drops to what it was a month ago?
Make it dynamic. We have USD feeds so use that to make the chain adapt and pay the equivalent of X USD worth of BTS. That way even if price changes witnesses will get roughly the same dollar value every month.
Agree. We have a price feed, let's use it for good. What are those "smart" contracts worth if we can't use them to fix witness wages?
The only obstacle I see here is witnesses collude and start manipulating the feed, because they all benefit from this.
This is a very real obstacle that a lot of people suggesting this seem to have neglected. I wouldn't want to fix the pay in bitUSD because of this risk, specially with the number of witnesses just dropping like it has in the previous months.
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Each witness is getting paid $1200+ because of the price rise.
They used to get 1.5 bts per block but this was doubled this year because the bitshares price was so low.
Now the bitshares price has nearly tripled so has the witnesses pay and every witness is receiving $1200+ worth of BTS every month!
A long term fix would be if an agreed $ payment could be paid to them in BTS each month. But that idea deserves its own post.
I see absolutely no problem with this in the short term.
Being a witness, and hanging on when times are troublesome should be awarded a little extra when times get better.
I'm not a witness, but if I was one, that's exactly what I'd expect.
Let them profit a little heavy for awhile... they've waited a while to have their cake. Let them munch on it for a bit.
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Each witness is getting paid $1200+ because of the price rise.
They used to get 1.5 bts per block but this was doubled this year because the bitshares price was so low.
Now the bitshares price has nearly tripled so has the witnesses pay and every witness is receiving $1200+ worth of BTS every month!
A long term fix would be if an agreed $ payment could be paid to them in BTS each month. But that idea deserves its own post.
I see absolutely no problem with this in the short term.
Being a witness, and hanging on when times are troublesome should be awarded a little extra when times get better.
I'm not a witness, but if I was one, that's exactly what I'd expect.
Let them profit a little heavy for awhile... they've waited a while to have their cake. Let them munch on it for a bit.
The issue with this though, is that the witness pay per block was just raised because of the low price...
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Each witness is getting paid $1200+ because of the price rise.
They used to get 1.5 bts per block but this was doubled this year because the bitshares price was so low.
Now the bitshares price has nearly tripled so has the witnesses pay and every witness is receiving $1200+ worth of BTS every month!
A long term fix would be if an agreed $ payment could be paid to them in BTS each month. But that idea deserves its own post.
I see absolutely no problem with this in the short term.
Being a witness, and hanging on when times are troublesome should be awarded a little extra when times get better.
I'm not a witness, but if I was one, that's exactly what I'd expect.
Let them profit a little heavy for awhile... they've waited a while to have their cake. Let them munch on it for a bit.
+1
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I won't go through the hassle and re-allocate the fees every time there is a pump or dump.
Current monthly witness pay is $1924
I think when a majority wants witnesses to be paid $600 you should be willing to vote to change it.
I have removed my proxy vote for @fav as committee member
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develop a way to peg fees to usd and a smartcontract that could check the peg every 24hours or so and amend the fees accordingly.
I won't go through the hassle and re-allocate the fees every time there is a pump or dump.
Why on chain? Could be done much easier. Just set witness pay in $ and announce it. Vote new fees based on that constant every new month 1st. This way you don't have to back to this discussion every market cap change. Is this much work?
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develop a way to peg fees to usd and a smartcontract that could check the peg every 24hours or so and amend the fees accordingly.
I won't go through the hassle and re-allocate the fees every time there is a pump or dump.
Why on chain? Could be done much easier. Just set witness pay in $ and announce it. Vote new fees based on that constant every new month 1st. This way you don't have to back to this discussion every market cap change. Is this much work?
sounds like a plan too!
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Where's the option to vote them another raise?
This poll is rigged!
If you want to breathe some new life into BTS to drive up the competition to become a witness, like Henry Ford did by raising the wages of his slaves.
If we really want some attention from the humans who we hope will join our little crypto club, then let's offer some incentive here.
Is it just me or does nobody ever agree with me?
+1
Welcome back!
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develop a way to peg fees to usd and a smartcontract that could check the peg every 24hours or so and amend the fees accordingly.
I won't go through the hassle and re-allocate the fees every time there is a pump or dump.
Why on chain? Could be done much easier. Just set witness pay in $ and announce it. Vote new fees based on that constant every new month 1st. This way you don't have to back to this discussion every market cap change. Is this much work?
sounds like a plan too!
I have suggested several times recently the committee needs to publish a policy statement about a few things. C'mon guys, lets get organized.
1) How often committee meets to vote and make changes
2) State policy on Witness pay - set pay target in USD
3) State policy on how frequent Witness pay is reviewed
4) List of priorities for committee review
5) ???
6) ??
7) ?
@JonnyBitcoin - you of course are free to vote as you like. However IMHO you may have misunderstood fav when he stated he wasn't willing to review fees on every pump and dump. I don't think it's reasonable to ask volunteers (committee) to review and make a policy statement dictated by market volatility. It should be done on a periodic basis as a matter of practicality. If things were adjusted once a month that should be adequate IMO. Others may think quarterly is adequate.
I am glad to see you holding committee members accountable to their responsibility though.
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If things were adjusted once a month that should be adequate IMO. Others may think quarterly is adequate.
Is it possible to do this completely automated way, based on daily amount of fees which DEX collects? They don't deserve more than DEX collects, right?
Also, do all witnesses really deserve same wage? They do different job, like produce different number of price feeds, etc, don't they deserve different wage in this case?
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If things were adjusted once a month that should be adequate IMO. Others may think quarterly is adequate.
Is it possible to do this completely automated way, based on daily amount of fees which DEX collects? They don't deserve more than DEX collects, right?
Also, do all witnesses really deserve same wage? They do different job, like produce different number of price feeds, etc, don't they deserve different wage in this case?
First, lets narrow the discussion to what is possible without code changes, unless YOU are able and willing to write a proposal and carry out the work or hire those that can. Ideas that require code development at a minimum should be considered as a secondary option.
Second, you haven't described what criteria you want witness' individual pay to be based on. Unless you can provide more detail on how such a scheme would be coded, by what criteria AND make the effort to champion that thru the process, it's an idea without feet to walk IMO.
So lets get real and limit our discussions to practical solutions. Throwing out "wild" ideas to resolve this "Witness Overpayment" issue without adequate thought is not very useful. IMO we would be better served to decide what the pay rate target should be and simply state that as a policy. There are far more important issues that need developer attention that this.
But hey, if you want to put the effort in to flush out the details and write a proposal to implement and get the votes to approve it, I don't think anyone would stop you. In fact I would encourage you to do so and I'll bet others would too.
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How about, take daily (or monthly, or quarterly ) fees, and give 50% of these fees to witnesses, leave the rest in reserve to fund development? This way you don't need to worry if witnesses get too much or too little, they get whatever customers pay.
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can I become a witness 8)
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develop a way to peg fees to usd and a smartcontract that could check the peg every 24hours or so and amend the fees accordingly.
I won't go through the hassle and re-allocate the fees every time there is a pump or dump.
Why on chain? Could be done much easier. Just set witness pay in $ and announce it. Vote new fees based on that constant every new month 1st. This way you don't have to back to this discussion every market cap change. Is this much work?
agree
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There is a MUCH better way to reduce the pay of the witnesses and bring more value to Bitshares.
Vote for more witnesses.
The amount that goes out is based on 3BTS per block
Those blocks are distributed between the Active witnesses.
The less active witnesses we have, the more they get paid.
At present 2 very good long time witnesses are no longer active because the number of witnesses has been reduced from 21 to 19.
What we should be doing is keeping the pay where it is at, and having 30+ Active witnesses instead.
More feed data, more competition, more network resilience.. aaaaaaand... all for the SAME PRICE!
How do we do this?
Vote for more witnesses that deserve the vote. If we don't have them then go out and tell people about the opportunity. Invite new people who are will to show some BTS love and bring with them their own network to love BTS too.
Squeezing and trying to punish existing Active witnesses isn't the answer.
Bring new fresh ones and expanding our number from 19 to 30+ is.
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There is a MUCH better way to reduce the pay of the witnesses and bring more value to Bitshares.
Vote for more witnesses.
The amount that goes out is based on 3BTS per block
Those blocks are distributed between the Active witnesses.
The less active witnesses we have, the more they get paid.
At present 2 very good long time witnesses are no longer active because the number of witnesses has been reduced from 21 to 19.
What we should be doing is keeping the pay where it is at, and having 30+ Active witnesses instead.
More feed data, more competition, more network resilience.. aaaaaaand... all for the SAME PRICE!
How do we do this?
Vote for more witnesses that deserve the vote. If we don't have them then go out and tell people about the opportunity. Invite new people who are will to show some BTS love and bring with them their own network to love BTS too.
Squeezing and trying to punish existing Active witnesses isn't the answer.
Bring new fresh ones and expanding our number from 19 to 30+ is.
+5% +5%
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There is a MUCH better way to reduce the pay of the witnesses and bring more value to Bitshares.
Vote for more witnesses.
The amount that goes out is based on 3BTS per block
Those blocks are distributed between the Active witnesses.
The less active witnesses we have, the more they get paid.
At present 2 very good long time witnesses are no longer active because the number of witnesses has been reduced from 21 to 19.
What we should be doing is keeping the pay where it is at, and having 30+ Active witnesses instead.
More feed data, more competition, more network resilience.. aaaaaaand... all for the SAME PRICE!
How do we do this?
Vote for more witnesses that deserve the vote. If we don't have them then go out and tell people about the opportunity. Invite new people who are will to show some BTS love and bring with them their own network to love BTS too.
Squeezing and trying to punish existing Active witnesses isn't the answer.
Bring new fresh ones and expanding our number from 19 to 30+ is.
But the you are left with same problem: next time BTS is dumped, you will need to fire some witnesses again to raise their pay.