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Now that I think about it there is one way that this can be counteracted: if an individual can see the number of unresolved disputes. In this case leaving an issue unresolved with harm the merchant by the loss of future sales. A scammer would have to keep his margins thin to appear within the noise of normal business disputes.
Quote from: Ander on December 12, 2014, 11:52:39 pmThe main problem with the blackcoin escrow system is:If I scam you, you have a choice:Lose your original money PLUS the collateral, in order to hurt me back. But you get hurt even worse this way.OR.Lose just your original money, and agree to let me have the money I scammed from you. Once you have suffered the original loss, that money is basically a sunk cost at this point. Sure, you can lose MORE money (the escrow collateral) in order to hurt me back, but what do you really gain from hurting me? If this is a one time deal and you're never going to interact with me again either way, you are better off sucking it up and not losing more money.If that's not enough, I might even sweeten the deal, offering you half your initial money back if you agree to release the funds out of escrow. Every decision should be neutral. The "scammer" won't scam because he gains nothing by "scamming" and infact loses. Like the global nuke strategy of MAD.Hrmmm. There other side is the buyer can't claim they didn't receive the item so maybe that is correct. It just has to be looked at as a monolithic process. This is where I first heard of it being used in crypto-currencies. This is a great infographic. http://nashx.com/HowItWorks
The main problem with the blackcoin escrow system is:If I scam you, you have a choice:Lose your original money PLUS the collateral, in order to hurt me back. But you get hurt even worse this way.OR.Lose just your original money, and agree to let me have the money I scammed from you. Once you have suffered the original loss, that money is basically a sunk cost at this point. Sure, you can lose MORE money (the escrow collateral) in order to hurt me back, but what do you really gain from hurting me? If this is a one time deal and you're never going to interact with me again either way, you are better off sucking it up and not losing more money.If that's not enough, I might even sweeten the deal, offering you half your initial money back if you agree to release the funds out of escrow.
Thoughts on BlackCoin's double deposit two party escrow?http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2fil2x/does_openbazaar_plan_on_implementing_twoparty/ "For example, I want to sell you a bauble. You deposit your payment into a multi-sig address that requires both our consent to release the funds. I can verify that deposit before sending you the bauble.In addition to that, we also agree to deposit a certain amount of funds into a second multi-sig address that requires both our consent, to be used as collateral against the trade.If I don't satisfy the trade, you won't release me the funds. If I satisfy the trade and you still don't release the funds, then you risk losing those funds and your collateral. This is important, because it means we both have more to lose by scamming each other, than by completing an honest trade."
Is the following a possible solution? Evidence of physical transfer and receipt could be provided by postal tracking. Once the escrow agent is provided copy of delivery receipt, the money is released to the seller. People could still exchange without such an arrangement, but at their own risk.
The biggest problem for a fully crypto ebay is that it will suffer from the opposite problem that ebay does. Ebay suffers from rouge buyers, who receive the item and then complain that they didn't. Ebay always sides with the buyer since there are more of them and reverses the charges.Since there are no reversible charges in crypto, a crypto ebay will suffer from rouge sellers, who wont ship the item, but will take payment.The only possible way of resolving this is to have a trusted physical distribution center which sellers post their items to, the center then confirms the item, forwards it on and acts as escrow for the payment as well.This is fantastically difficult and expensive to do in practice.What we need is way to get as close to this as possible with the least amount of pain.
Quote from: bytemaster on December 12, 2014, 10:28:11 pmI should be able to see order on laptop, then pay on phone by entering the same info in my phone wallet. Best would (IMHO) be to come up with the same kind of payment scheme as is used in bitcoin QR-codes .. something like "ADDRESS?amount=3&asset=USD" ..
I should be able to see order on laptop, then pay on phone by entering the same info in my phone wallet.
Quote from: jsidhu on December 12, 2014, 08:38:07 pmQuote from: lil_jay890 on December 12, 2014, 02:32:47 amI have contacted bitmarkets. They said that they would be willing to do a fork so that their bitmarkets program works with bitshares.The want to charge $200/hour as a consulting fee... I mentioned applying for a delegate job but they don't seem interested.Does this seem like something that we would want to do???This is their website: Voluntary.net and http://cofactorsoftware.comIf its open source I can do it.How is your delegate push coming along? I really want to see you working on Open Bazaar and bitBazaar.
Quote from: lil_jay890 on December 12, 2014, 02:32:47 amI have contacted bitmarkets. They said that they would be willing to do a fork so that their bitmarkets program works with bitshares.The want to charge $200/hour as a consulting fee... I mentioned applying for a delegate job but they don't seem interested.Does this seem like something that we would want to do???This is their website: Voluntary.net and http://cofactorsoftware.comIf its open source I can do it.
I have contacted bitmarkets. They said that they would be willing to do a fork so that their bitmarkets program works with bitshares.The want to charge $200/hour as a consulting fee... I mentioned applying for a delegate job but they don't seem interested.Does this seem like something that we would want to do???This is their website: Voluntary.net and http://cofactorsoftware.com
What's the difference between hiring a delegate to pay for this, or having them own a delegate that pays them to do it?
$200/hr is reasonable for contract-based development. I bet you guys were "asking" too much instead of "offering" to sponsor their project with a delegate if they added bitUSD support.
It's their way of politely declining our offer. I got the same answer.
Quote from: monsterer on December 11, 2014, 02:24:17 pmThe biggest problem for a fully crypto ebay is that it will suffer from the opposite problem that ebay does. Ebay suffers from rouge buyers, who receive the item and then complain that they didn't. Ebay always sides with the buyer since there are more of them and reverses the charges.Since there are no reversible charges in crypto, a crypto ebay will suffer from rouge sellers, who wont ship the item, but will take payment.Would Gateways help with this? Let's say the platform functions with the UIA "crypto_ebay_USD_IOU" it can do chargebacks in those situations correct?
The biggest problem for a fully crypto ebay is that it will suffer from the opposite problem that ebay does. Ebay suffers from rouge buyers, who receive the item and then complain that they didn't. Ebay always sides with the buyer since there are more of them and reverses the charges.Since there are no reversible charges in crypto, a crypto ebay will suffer from rouge sellers, who wont ship the item, but will take payment.
Quote from: lil_jay890 on December 11, 2014, 02:47:54 pmCoindesk had an interesting article on a company called bitmarkets.Their escrow is pretty interesting since it only involves 2 people."Bitmarkets' escrow system could make it more attractive to users, however. OpenBazaar's is different in that it works with three parties consisting of the buyer, seller and a trusted third-party. Funds can only be released if two of those three parties sign off on a multi-signature account.Bit markets cuts all the fat out of a transaction, relying solely on the buyer and seller. Sellers have to 'lock' in funds equal to the price of the item being sold. Buyers do the same, but lock double the amount. The locked funds are held in escrow in their Bitmarkets wallets. When a transaction is completed smoothly, the locked amounts are released and the seller is paid."http://www.coindesk.com/bitmarkets-launches-decentralised-bitcoin-marketplace-tor-support/interesting apps ... and good design ... maybe worth to contact them about possible coops ?http://voluntary.net/
Coindesk had an interesting article on a company called bitmarkets.Their escrow is pretty interesting since it only involves 2 people."Bitmarkets' escrow system could make it more attractive to users, however. OpenBazaar's is different in that it works with three parties consisting of the buyer, seller and a trusted third-party. Funds can only be released if two of those three parties sign off on a multi-signature account.Bit markets cuts all the fat out of a transaction, relying solely on the buyer and seller. Sellers have to 'lock' in funds equal to the price of the item being sold. Buyers do the same, but lock double the amount. The locked funds are held in escrow in their Bitmarkets wallets. When a transaction is completed smoothly, the locked amounts are released and the seller is paid."http://www.coindesk.com/bitmarkets-launches-decentralised-bitcoin-marketplace-tor-support/
Quote from: toast on December 11, 2014, 02:30:38 pmThat's what escrow is for. Seems to work for online black markets, they're fine with using the anonymous site owner as the escrow because you're trusting their system with a lot anyway. In our case you would trust a mutually agreed-upon third party.They physically take delivery of the item? If not, how does it work?
That's what escrow is for. Seems to work for online black markets, they're fine with using the anonymous site owner as the escrow because you're trusting their system with a lot anyway. In our case you would trust a mutually agreed-upon third party.