Bitshares Questions?

[Helikopterben]

I'm not sure if bitshares decentralized asset exchange is going to be the first fully decentralized (OTC) market allowing crypto-traders to trade FX or CFDs but is it possible for fully decentralized FX trading or CFD trading to exist with or on the bitshares asset exchange? Is this the point of bitshares?

IMO no man-made system can be fully decentralized.  I like to think of it on a scale of 0 to 100, with 0 being fully centralized and 100 being fully decentralized.  Nothing is a 0 and nothing is 100.  All financial systems fall somewhere in between including fiat currencies such as the dollar or euro.  The real question we should ask is, "is it sufficiently decentralized?"  Actually, I would take it a step further and ask, "Is it sufficiently secure?"  because cryptography provides a large portion of security but is not directly tied to decentralization.  The end result should be a system where users cannot get their assets stolen or transactions censored, either directly or through inflation of the base asset.  For example, when your brokerage will not allow 500:1 leverage, that is a direct result of censorship, meaning the system you are using is not sufficiently secure.  Also, when the fed starts another round of QE, that is inflation of the base asset which is also not sufficiently secure. 

Right now, only bitcoin and related 1.0 technologies are sufficiently secure.  Nxt may be the only technology that can be considered 2.0 and sufficiently secure, depending on your perspective.  Bitshares, ripple, stellar, and ethereum are not sufficiently secure at this point, but plan to be in the future.  The main difference is that only bitshares will offer sufficiently secure assets (bitassets which are pegged to the value of physical world assets) other than the native currency. 

This is still very much a work in progress.  I am guessing that in less than 5 years you will be able to do this:



in a sufficiently secure environment powered by bitshares... at a fraction of the fees... using 500:1 leverage... trading corn, wheat, copper, usd, jpy, chk, ect, ect, ect.  At least that is the plan.


disclaimer:  This is still and experiment.  No guarantees.

[Erlich Bachman]

There is no margin trading on bitshares

Margin trading is possible but not available today, and will always require a third party to assume some risk (such is the nature of margin trading).  The fact is that BitShares is designed to disintermediate the brokerages not simply by a blockchain acting alone, but by little people like you and I who, with the help of a blockchain to supplement trust for us, can act as the brokerage.  Because you and I can lock collateral within the blockchain, that fact alone, negates the need for anybody or any "small time brokers" to be licensed.  Because all the "broker" does in this case is pony up collateral and collect margin trading fees.

License = Trust

And since the blockchain eliminates the need to trust people in some aspects, we no longer need people to obtain licenses in any of those aspects in the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbzNJr26H-4#t=2m35s
Now that we got control (of the brokerages).  We not gonna let it go.

[monsterer]

How would pips, lot sizes, margin requirements work If I was trading BITEURBITUSD? I'm assuming the same as the real FX markets?

(i.e. 1 standard account trading 1 standard lot of 100,000 units of BITEUR/500 [1:500 leverage] = 200 BITEUR * 1.29 = $258 (margin requirement) to trade 100,000 units of BITEUR making each pip $10 dollars for example—I buy 100,000 BITEUR at 1.29000 and it move 100 pips to 1.29100 I would take a profit of $10*100 = $1000)

There is no margin trading on bitshares, so no leverage at all... Apart from shorting, at 0.5 x leverage....

[BossYamasaki]

How would pips, lot sizes, margin requirements work If I was trading BITEURBITUSD? I'm assuming the same as the real FX markets?

(i.e. 1 standard account trading 1 standard lot of 100,000 units of BITEUR/500 [1:500 leverage] = 200 BITEUR * 1.29 = $258 (margin requirement) to trade 100,000 units of BITEUR making each pip $10 dollars for example—I buy 100,000 BITEUR at 1.29000 and it move 100 pips to 1.29100 I would take a profit of $10*100 = $1000)

[BossYamasaki]

I'm not sure if bitshares decentralized asset exchange is going to be the first fully decentralized (OTC) market allowing crypto-traders to trade FX or CFDs



I dont know who will be first


but is it possible for fully decentralized FX trading or CFD trading to exist with or on the bitshares asset exchange?

yes

Is this the point of bitshares?

one of them

 Will crypto-traders be able to speculate on the exchange rate of paired market pegged assets (i.e. biteurbitusd, bitusdbitjpy.) or underlying prices of bitgold, etc.?

I am doing this as we speak but with BTS as a go between or common unit of comparison for trade.  Ask anybody here and they will tell you that they have "shorted bitUSD in preparation for the official BitShares release date." Right now Tony K, who just bought in last week and shorted bitUSD, is covering his short positions with a huge gain and still has not even sold his BTS! So the answer is definitely "yes and we can pay our developers to make this functionality simpler"

Will there be assets pegged to other commodities? (i.e. brent, copper, platinum, palladium, corn, cocoa, sugar, exotic currencies etc.)

yes

. Will traders be able to trade with leverage?

Yes, but additional collateral will need to be secured by either the trader or a third party offering such a service (in the same manner that such collateral is required to be held by brokerages in real life).  This feature will not be available immediately but is entirely possible and therefore will be added later. Exactly when it will be added depends on weather this feature is voted in first second third or even later. If you really really want this feature installed sooner rather than later then you can either campaign for it within the community or buy enough BTS to sway the political vote in your favor

Will crypto-traders be able to enter or exit the market in both rising and falling markets?

yes

I'm asking because I want to trade, but regulation has killed the Forex Market.

BitShares is regulated by users like you and me.  So if we want to add regulation to limit our own capabilities: such as what markets we have access to, then we can vote on the blockchain to restrict our own trading.  Because BitShares is regulated only by its own users, then you are basically free until you decide to limit your own fredoms.

US Traders can't trade CFDs, regulated brokers don't offer 1:500 leverage anymore, there are a lot of scams out there so I'm looking for a solution to this in a cryptocurrency. Will bitshares offer any of this or is this somehow capable through bitshares?

Again, yes, leveraged trading is possible as long as there is sufficient collateral in the system.  In other words. You and I would do this on the blockchain.  You would put up $100 and probably like 10% as additional collateral.  I would lock up $100,000 assuming 200% collateral requirements (whatever amount agreed upon by the collective community through continuous voting parameter).  Then you trade. If at any time, your $50,000 imvestment falls by 0.2% (based on your leverage %) then your position is automatically closed by the blockchain ( margin called) with the proceeds of that sale going toward the repayment of my principal first then your 10% collateral second.  As long as your investment does not lose more than 0.2%, the. you keep trading and paying me margin fees.


 Or is it even possible for a fully decentralized OTC market to exist?

Welcome to BitShares.  Margin trading is easy when anybody can be a broker. What many don't see when pointing to the possibility of a market black swan or possibility of a massive price swing basing their fears on Wall Street's "Black Anyday" fail to see how absurd this is when market trading is allowed 24-7.
 
In other words, the old "purchase index futures by the brokers to either gap down or up at the opening bell to blow past your trading stops ( to stop you out at a bigger loss than if your actual stop loss price was hitduring "open market hours") just to cover their trades later in the day while they pocket your extrordinary loss, and close the days trading out right at your stop loss just to piss u off is not possible when the market never closes.  In other words, welcome to 24-7 trading where volatility is reduced by never reducing the available trading hours (the market ther never closes can never "gap" anywhere)

Thank you for answering all of my questions. Bitshares is going to be an innovative technology. Will traders be able to trade bitassets using MT4?

[BossYamasaki]

First of all you don't want 500:1 leverage. Banks don't use more than 10:1 max... 500:1 is a gimmick to steal your money.

Second of all im sure it is possible to allow for crosses to be traded ice usdjpy etc.. I come from a forex background too so i know that industry well.

What would be cool is if our charting was as easy as meta trader and offered a way to make EAs to trade symbols through smart contracts.. It would create liquidity and would bring in pretty much all of the retail forex market (few $ billion max)

I think 500:1 leverage is great way to grow your account fast with little capital. If you know how to trade professionally I don't think trading with that much leverage would be a problem. There are still brokers that offer 500:1 leverage, but they are not regulated. I'm pretty sure overseas traders trading FX will see the full benefits of trading FX and CFDs unlike US traders. Non brokers even offer up to 400:1 leverage on CFD trading accounts. Why can't US brokers offer 500:1 leverage or CFD tradings? Because of regulations.

I hope soon that traders will be able to speculate exchange rates or underlying prices of a commodity on a fully decentralized exchange. Even if they are just market pegged assets pegged to fiat or gold. Trading BITUSDBITJPY or BITBRENT on MT4 would be the shit lol. I'm still new to FX and TA, what are EAs? Are you talking about indices?

[Erlich Bachman]

I'm not sure if bitshares decentralized asset exchange is going to be the first fully decentralized (OTC) market allowing crypto-traders to trade FX or CFDs



I dont know who will be first


but is it possible for fully decentralized FX trading or CFD trading to exist with or on the bitshares asset exchange?

yes

Is this the point of bitshares?

one of them

 Will crypto-traders be able to speculate on the exchange rate of paired market pegged assets (i.e. biteurbitusd, bitusdbitjpy.) or underlying prices of bitgold, etc.?

I am doing this as we speak but with BTS as a go between or common unit of comparison for trade.  Ask anybody here and they will tell you that they have "shorted bitUSD in preparation for the official BitShares release date." Right now Tony K, who just bought in last week and shorted bitUSD, is covering his short positions with a huge gain and still has not even sold his BTS! So the answer is definitely "yes and we can pay our developers to make this functionality simpler"

Will there be assets pegged to other commodities? (i.e. brent, copper, platinum, palladium, corn, cocoa, sugar, exotic currencies etc.)

yes

. Will traders be able to trade with leverage?

Yes, but additional collateral will need to be secured by either the trader or a third party offering such a service (in the same manner that such collateral is required to be held by brokerages in real life).  This feature will not be available immediately but is entirely possible and therefore will be added later. Exactly when it will be added depends on weather this feature is voted in first second third or even later. If you really really want this feature installed sooner rather than later then you can either campaign for it within the community or buy enough BTS to sway the political vote in your favor

Will crypto-traders be able to enter or exit the market in both rising and falling markets?

yes

I'm asking because I want to trade, but regulation has killed the Forex Market.

BitShares is regulated by users like you and me.  So if we want to add regulation to limit our own capabilities: such as what markets we have access to, then we can vote on the blockchain to restrict our own trading.  Because BitShares is regulated only by its own users, then you are basically free until you decide to limit your own fredoms.

US Traders can't trade CFDs, regulated brokers don't offer 1:500 leverage anymore, there are a lot of scams out there so I'm looking for a solution to this in a cryptocurrency. Will bitshares offer any of this or is this somehow capable through bitshares?

Again, yes, leveraged trading is possible as long as there is sufficient collateral in the system.  In other words. You and I would do this on the blockchain.  You would put up $100 and probably like 10% as additional collateral.  I would lock up $100,000 assuming 200% collateral requirements (whatever amount agreed upon by the collective community through continuous voting parameter).  Then you trade. If at any time, your $50,000 imvestment falls by 0.2% (based on your leverage %) then your position is automatically closed by the blockchain ( margin called) with the proceeds of that sale going toward the repayment of my principal first then your 10% collateral second.  As long as your investment does not lose more than 0.2%, the. you keep trading and paying me margin fees.


 Or is it even possible for a fully decentralized OTC market to exist?

Welcome to BitShares.  Margin trading is easy when anybody can be a broker. What many don't see when pointing to the possibility of a market black swan or possibility of a massive price swing basing their fears on Wall Street's "Black Anyday" fail to see how absurd this is when market trading is allowed 24-7.
 
In other words, the old "purchase index futures by the brokers to either gap down or up at the opening bell to blow past your trading stops ( to stop you out at a bigger loss than if your actual stop loss price was hitduring "open market hours") just to cover their trades later in the day while they pocket your extrordinary loss, and close the days trading out right at your stop loss just to piss u off is not possible when the market never closes.  In other words, welcome to 24-7 trading where volatility is reduced by never reducing the available trading hours (the market ther never closes can never "gap" anywhere)

[jsidhu]

First of all you don't want 500:1 leverage. Banks don't use more than 10:1 max... 500:1 is a gimmick to steal your money.

Second of all im sure it is possible to allow for crosses to be traded ice usdjpy etc.. I come from a forex background too so i know that industry well.

What would be cool is if our charting was as easy as meta trader and offered a way to make EAs to trade symbols through smart contracts.. It would create liquidity and would bring in pretty much all of the retail forex market (few $ billion max)

[BossYamasaki]

I'm not sure if bitshares decentralized asset exchange is going to be the first fully decentralized (OTC) market allowing crypto-traders to trade FX or CFDs but is it possible for fully decentralized FX trading or CFD trading to exist with or on the bitshares asset exchange? Is this the point of bitshares? Will crypto-traders be able to speculate on the exchange rate of paired market pegged assets (i.e. biteurbitusd, bitusdbitjpy.) or underlying prices of bitgold, bitsilver, bitoil, bitgas? Will there be assets pegged to other commodities? (i.e. brent, copper, platinum, palladium, corn, cocoa, sugar, exotic currencies etc.). Will traders be able to trade with leverage? Will crypto-traders be able to enter or exit the market in both rising and falling markets? I'm asking because I want to trade, but regulation has killed the Forex Market. US Traders can't trade CFDs, regulated brokers don't offer 1:500 leverage anymore, there are a lot of scams out there so I'm looking for a solution to this in a cryptocurrency. Will bitshares offer any of this or is this somehow capable through bitshares? Or is it even possible for a fully decentralized OTC market to exist?