BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: bytemaster on September 07, 2014, 07:03:42 pm

Title: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 07, 2014, 07:03:42 pm
BitAssets will now yield a return for their owners from the transaction and market fees involving that asset.   This is a variable yield and not a guaranteed ROI.

Users will not have to do anything to benefit from this yield, it will automatically show up in their balance and transaction records as part of normal use.   Every time you make a transaction that withdraws from one of your balances it will pay any yield due back to that balance.     

The yield can be calculated as:

ACCOUNT_BALANCE / BIT_ASSET_SUPPLY  *  TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES * PERCENT_OF_YEAR_HELD

After 1 year you hit the maximum yield percent.  Simply move your funds once per year and you can see the maximum benefit.

You can estimate the "current APR" as  TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES / BIT_ASSET_SUPPLY.

The following things can reduce the current yield estimate:
   New BitUSD being created with a market fee less than  (TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES / BIT_ASSET_SUPPLY)
   Someone cashing out some of their yield.

The following things can increase the current yield estimate:
   Market Transactions with more overlap than (TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES / BIT_ASSET_SUPPLY)
   Transactions with BitUSD fees paid.


So what kind of yield can one expect to see?   $0.05 per transaction, 0.01% or more BitUSD trade volume.  Up to 10% on new BitUSD issuance based upon existing demand.. perhaps less.

Assume we get to 1 TPS in BitUSD the network would earn $1.5 million from transaction fees, if there were $15M BitUSD in circulation then that would be a 10% yield.   Every time someone submits / cancels a bid with BitUSD it counts as a transaction.    $15M BitUSD in circulation would mean $30M BTSX locked up as collateral.     

This will get very interesting :)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Shentist on September 07, 2014, 07:12:19 pm
 +5%

maybe you can explain more "PERCENT_OF_YEAR_HELD"?

for me it is unclear, how this is calculated. you wrote

Quote
Simply move your funds once per year and you can see the maximum benefit.

so transfering from my account to my account don't count as transfer.

do i have to hold the bitUSD as shown in my account or is it possible to place the bitUSD as an order in the market and it is still counted to the yield?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 07, 2014, 07:14:36 pm
+5%

maybe you can explain more "PERCENT_OF_YEAR_HELD"?

for me it is unclear, how this is calculated. you wrote

Quote
Simply move your funds once per year and you can see the maximum benefit.

so transfering from my account to my account don't count as transfer.

do i have to hold the bitUSD as shown in my account or is it possible to place the bitUSD as an order in the market and it is still counted to the yield?

Market orders to not pay a yield at this time.

PERCENT_OF_YEAR_HELD  =  seconds since the last withdraw/deposit / seconds per year.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: serejandmyself on September 07, 2014, 07:16:27 pm
will be interesting
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Ggozzo on September 07, 2014, 07:17:28 pm
Is the interest paid in BTSX or bitUSD?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: emski on September 07, 2014, 07:18:25 pm
So if you own BTSX it is wise to short USD to yourself so you can profit ?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 07, 2014, 07:19:37 pm

PERCENT_OF_YEAR_HELD  =  seconds since the last withdraw/deposit / seconds per year.


I may take Wednesday off work to properly focus on this :D .


So if I send my bitUSD balance to myself does that count as a movement that can collect the yield? Would that reset the clock on the "percentage of year" timer? If it does are bitAssets subject to the 5% inactivity fee?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 07, 2014, 07:21:07 pm
So if you own BTSX it is wise to short USD to yourself so you can profit ?


Why not just buy bitUSD on the open market so your BTSX isn't held up?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 07, 2014, 07:21:22 pm
So if you own BTSX it is be wise to short USD to yourself so you can profit ?

Before you can "Short USD to yourself" you must buy up all USD on the market below the price feed... then you must offer to pay a higher market fee than all the other people attempting to short.       

If everyone does this then the PEG will hold *AND* BitUSD will have a high yield.  The result will be that BTSX will go up in value and you will make a killing. 
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 07, 2014, 07:22:28 pm
So if you own BTSX it is wise to short USD to yourself so you can profit ?


Why not just buy bitUSD on the open market so your BTSX isn't held up?

Going short/long at the same time is equivalent to holding BTSX with an option to double your stake at todays prices at any time. 
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: D4vegee on September 07, 2014, 07:24:38 pm
This is good. How long till i no longer need my Santander account?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Gentso1 on September 07, 2014, 07:45:51 pm
ok so I have some bitUSD all ready.
What do I need to do to collect the interest and how often is it calculated?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 07, 2014, 07:47:20 pm
So if you own BTSX it is wise to short USD to yourself so you can profit ?


Why not just buy bitUSD on the open market so your BTSX isn't held up?

Going short/long at the same time is equivalent to holding BTSX with an option to double your stake at todays prices at any time.


I have much to learn.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Empirical1.1 on September 07, 2014, 07:51:26 pm
 +5% +5% Sounds great  :)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: onceuponatime on September 07, 2014, 07:57:42 pm
ok so I have some bitUSD all ready.
What do I need to do to collect the interest and how often is it calculated?

I want to know this too. I already have bitUSD and bitBTC which I bought well above the current btsx price. So I plan on holding on to them for the interest. Do we need to do anything to start gaining the returns on Wednesday, or do the returns only apply to people who acquire their bitAssets on Wednesday or later?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: GaltReport on September 07, 2014, 07:58:59 pm
This sounds great.  It will be good to have the GUI show the accumulation of interest and the actual addition of it to their account somehow so that this great benefit is very prominent to everyone.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Shentist on September 07, 2014, 08:01:19 pm
ok so I have some bitUSD all ready.
What do I need to do to collect the interest and how often is it calculated?

I want to know this too. I already have bitUSD and bitBTC which I bought well above the current btsx price. So I plan on holding on to them for the interest. Do we need to do anything to start gaining the returns on Wednesday, or do the returns only apply to people who acquire their bitAssets on Wednesday or later?

as i understand just put it in your account and don't place an order at the market.

@bytemaster
please consider to count bitUSD in market order for the yield as well. without that everyone will hord and not trade bitUSD.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Empirical1.1 on September 07, 2014, 08:08:40 pm
This sounds great.  It will be good to have the GUI show the accumulation of interest and the actual addition of it to their account somehow so that this great benefit is very prominent to everyone.

 +5%
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: liondani on September 07, 2014, 08:16:27 pm
I am waiting Agent86 comment...
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: ripplexiaoshan on September 07, 2014, 08:50:01 pm
ok so I have some bitUSD all ready.
What do I need to do to collect the interest and how often is it calculated?

I want to know this too. I already have bitUSD and bitBTC which I bought well above the current btsx price. So I plan on holding on to them for the interest. Do we need to do anything to start gaining the returns on Wednesday, or do the returns only apply to people who acquire their bitAssets on Wednesday or later?

as i understand just put it in your account and don't place an order at the market.

@bytemaster
please consider to count bitUSD in market order for the yield as well. without that everyone will hord and not trade bitUSD.

Placing your bitUSD in market means you don't want to keep these bitUSD anymore, then why you still get interest? Interest encourages every hold bitUSD.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 07, 2014, 08:50:58 pm

ok so I have some bitUSD all ready.
What do I need to do to collect the interest and how often is it calculated?

I want to know this too. I already have bitUSD and bitBTC which I bought well above the current btsx price. So I plan on holding on to them for the interest. Do we need to do anything to start gaining the returns on Wednesday, or do the returns only apply to people who acquire their bitAssets on Wednesday or later?

It will be retroactive.  Nothing you have to do. 
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: theoretical on September 07, 2014, 09:00:49 pm
In this scheme, the interest computation doesn't do compounding.  So users will have an incentive to spam the network with transactions compounding manually.

For example, suppose Alice has 1000 BitUSD, the current yield is 10% and Alice expects rate of network income to remain the same.

Then Alice can wait to the end of the year and get 100 BitUSD in one interest-claiming transaction.  Or Alice can claim interest in six months, increasing her balance to 1050 BitUSD, then in six more months, claim interest on that 1050 BitUSD balance which brings her to 1102.50.  The extra 2.50 BitUSD Alice extracts far exceeds the transaction fee.  Finding the optimum timing of interest claims is left as an exercise to the reader.

We can fix this relatively easily.  Let r = TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES / (BIT_ASSET_SUPPLY - TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES), then the interest should be ACCOUNT_BALANCE * pow(r, PERCENT_OF_YEAR_HELD).

My formula takes compounding into account, so Alice can no longer extract a risk-free profit with the above strategy (the result of claiming interest twice in a year is a balance approximately one tx fee less than the result of claiming interest once in a year.)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: speedy on September 07, 2014, 09:02:09 pm
You work really fast - well done!

So is some of the BitUSD transaction fees used for the insurance fund, and the rest used for interest?

If so then should the formula should be updated to:

ACCOUNT_BALANCE / BIT_ASSET_SUPPLY  *  TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES * PERCENT_OF_YEAR_HELD * INTEREST_INSURANCE_RATIO
?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: jakub on September 07, 2014, 09:10:29 pm
Let's assume the following:
- there is a rule that prevents bitUSD shorting below 90% of the market feed (as we have now)
- bid-ask overlap is collected by the system as a trading fee (as we have now)
- a fixed percent (e.g. 50%) of the trading fee gets paid to the bitUSD holders as dividend

It seems to me that the above elements constitute a nice self-regulating mechanism:

1. When shorts are supplying more bitUSD than there is demand for it, this sequence of events happens:
-> the shorts quote close to the 90% limit
-> this produces big bid-ask overlaps so the trading fees collected by the system get bigger
-> the system has a large pool of trading fees to be distributed to the bitUSD longs as dividends
-> as dividends grow there is an increasing incentive to hold bitUSD so the demand for it rises and this counteracts the initial imbalance

2. When there is more demand for bitUSD than the shorts are willing to supply, this sequence of events happens:
-> the shorts quote far from the 90% limit
-> there are very few bid-ask overlaps so the trading fees collected by the system get smaller
-> the system has a small pool of trading fees to be distributed to the bitUSD longs as dividends
-> as dividends get smaller there is a decreasing incentive to hold bitUSD so the demand for it falls and this counteracts the initial imbalance

BM, I wonder whether you agree with the above interpretation.
If it has any validity it would mean the bitUSD interest feature is actively helping to support the market peg.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: James212 on September 07, 2014, 09:28:38 pm
You work really fast - well done!

So is some of the BitUSD transaction fees used for the insurance fund, and the rest used for interest?

If so then should the formula should be updated to:

ACCOUNT_BALANCE / BIT_ASSET_SUPPLY  *  TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES * PERCENT_OF_YEAR_HELD * INTEREST_INSURANCE_RATIO
?

There will no longer be an insurance fund, at least that is what I understand. 
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: xeroc on September 07, 2014, 09:57:01 pm
*confirmed*
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 07, 2014, 10:57:05 pm

In this scheme, the interest computation doesn't do compounding.  So users will have an incentive to spam the network with transactions compounding manually.

For example, suppose Alice has 1000 BitUSD, the current yield is 10% and Alice expects rate of network income to remain the same.

Then Alice can wait to the end of the year and get 100 BitUSD in one interest-claiming transaction.  Or Alice can claim interest in six months, increasing her balance to 1050 BitUSD, then in six more months, claim interest on that 1050 BitUSD balance which brings her to 1102.50.  The extra 2.50 BitUSD Alice extracts far exceeds the transaction fee.  Finding the optimum timing of interest claims is left as an exercise to the reader.

We can fix this relatively easily.  Let r = TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES / (BIT_ASSET_SUPPLY - TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES), then the interest should be ACCOUNT_BALANCE * pow(r, PERCENT_OF_YEAR_HELD).

My formula takes compounding into account, so Alice can no longer extract a risk-free profit with the above strategy (the result of claiming interest twice in a year is a balance approximately one tx fee less than the result of claiming interest once in a year.)

If you have an easy way to implement that with 128 bit integer math....

For most people making regular transactions anyway it won't matter. Those that are using cold storage will have to balance the effort with the rewards.   


Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: theoretical on September 07, 2014, 11:52:25 pm

If you have an easy way to implement that with 128 bit integer math....

Basically in any block where the network's BitUSD payable interest fund has income, keep track of log inflation rate (i.e. 1 + income / (BitUSD_in_circulation + fund_size)).  Then any BitUSD balance is multiplied by exp(sum of log inflation rates since the balance last moved).  The sum of logs can be partially pre-computed with a skip-list like data structure (basically for every K, pre-do the sum for block sequences of length 2^K whose start block number is divisible by 2^K).  You need O(1) extra per-block compute and storage on average per block, and O(log(N)) to figure out sum of log interest rates.

You always resolve odd satoshis in favor of the fund, and you round inflation down when computing the individual BitUSD balance increase, but round inflation up when computing the total BitUSD outside the fund.  (Use different approximations to exp and log1p functions that are under- or over-estimates as appropriate.)

Those rounding errors accumulate in favor of the network.  They shouldn't matter in the short-to-medium term (the next few months).  But in the long-term, eventually we should write code to reclaim those destroyed rounding-error BitUSD and ultimately pay them out as interest.  I'd suggest once in a while activating a new interest fund, closing the books on the old interest fund, and giving the remainder of the old interest fund to the new interest fund as income after the last claim on the old interest fund has been paid (which must eventually happen because balances must move once a year).
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: starspirit on September 08, 2014, 12:10:13 am
Let's assume the following:
- there is a rule that prevents bitUSD shorting below 90% of the market feed (as we have now)
- bid-ask overlap is collected by the system as a trading fee (as we have now)
- a fixed percent (e.g. 50%) of the trading fee gets paid to the bitUSD holders as dividend

It seems to me that the above elements constitute a nice self-regulating mechanism:

1. When shorts are supplying more bitUSD than there is demand for it, this sequence of events happens:
-> the shorts quote close to the 90% limit
-> this produces big bid-ask overlaps so the trading fees collected by the system get bigger
-> the system has a large pool of trading fees to be distributed to the bitUSD longs as dividends
-> as dividends grow there is an increasing incentive to hold bitUSD so the demand for it rises and this counteracts the initial imbalance

2. When there is more demand for bitUSD than the shorts are willing to supply, this sequence of events happens:
-> the shorts quote far from the 90% limit
-> there are very few bid-ask overlaps so the trading fees collected by the system get smaller
-> the system has a small pool of trading fees to be distributed to the bitUSD longs as dividends
-> as dividends get smaller there is a decreasing incentive to hold bitUSD so the demand for it falls and this counteracts the initial imbalance

BM, I wonder whether you agree with the above interpretation.
If it has any validity it would mean the bitUSD interest feature is actively helping to support the market peg.

My view is this would work (at least to an extent) if the market already had a natural equilibrium at the peg price. If the natural market level were instead some distance from the peg (e.g. at some level of discount) then this dynamic would tend to create reversion around the discount level. As I've said elsewhere, the only way to let the market find a natural trading level close to the peg is by allowing both sides (buyers and sellers) to determine the right level of incentive to do so. Transaction fee sharing, although helping to support the demand side as is needed at this stage, has no way to ensure close pegging. In fact for some assets the yield still won't be high enough and the market may equilibrate around a discount, while for others (e.g. if prospects for the BitAsset look better than BTSX at that point) it could even be a premium.

Right now the natural market level is a discount to the peg, but with the constraining feed rules, combined with little movement in BTSX, there is no new creation and for the time being, no trading, hence few fees being generated. Therefore I would think the incentive pool is not growing much. Having said that, and this is just a speculation on my part, its possible there may be an initial impetus for people to try to grab the existing pool as quickly as possible before it is entirely consumed, and I think the bigger accounts will have the cost advantage in being able to do this before such fee-collection trading dies down again.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: 麥可貓 on September 08, 2014, 03:25:15 am
I think interest is great.  However,  since that it takes a year to maximize my yield,  I would like to have a command that shows the distribution of coinage in specified account.  For example:
Code: [Select]
>>coinage <account>
And it may returns something like:
Code: [Select]
1. Coinage of 50% of balance is 0.9 year
2. Coinage of 30% of balance is 0.5 year
3. Coinage of 20% of balance is 0.1 year

So I know I can use the 20% without interfering the interest of the other 80% to maximize,  assuming the wallet will automatically choose the 'youngest' BitUSD to spend.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: checkrasier on September 08, 2014, 03:32:21 am
ok so I have some bitUSD all ready.
What do I need to do to collect the interest and how often is it calculated?

I want to know this too. I already have bitUSD and bitBTC which I bought well above the current btsx price. So I plan on holding on to them for the interest. Do we need to do anything to start gaining the returns on Wednesday, or do the returns only apply to people who acquire their bitAssets on Wednesday or later?

as i understand just put it in your account and don't place an order at the market.

@bytemaster
please consider to count bitUSD in market order for the yield as well. without that everyone will hord and not trade bitUSD.

Placing your bitUSD in market means you don't want to keep these bitUSD anymore, then why you still get interest? Interest encourages every hold bitUSD.

It means you are willing to buy or sell at a higher price than the current ask or bid.  Not having interest for funds that are part of market orders seems to discourage trading, hurt liquidity and the widen the spread. 

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bitcoinerS on September 08, 2014, 04:28:47 am

Market orders to not pay a yield at this time.


They probably should, otherwise it will discourage people from participating in the market, reducing available liquidity.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: jsidhu on September 08, 2014, 04:31:51 am
Kewl so we should get a bump up in price as bitUSD longs become more liquid!
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: eagleeye on September 08, 2014, 05:19:59 am
(To the development company) Main marketing team I hope your ready.

(To us the public) It will be time to spread the infographics that have been made (Press/Marketing sections you can find them).
Furthermore, use facebook and etc.

Someone link this in the General Forum.

 +5% 2 Infographics found here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8202.0 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8202.0)

Does anyone know where any other infographics are on the marketing/press forum.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: jernau on September 08, 2014, 06:23:36 am

In this scheme, the interest computation doesn't do compounding.  So users will have an incentive to spam the network with transactions compounding manually.

For example, suppose Alice has 1000 BitUSD, the current yield is 10% and Alice expects rate of network income to remain the same.

Then Alice can wait to the end of the year and get 100 BitUSD in one interest-claiming transaction.  Or Alice can claim interest in six months, increasing her balance to 1050 BitUSD, then in six more months, claim interest on that 1050 BitUSD balance which brings her to 1102.50.  The extra 2.50 BitUSD Alice extracts far exceeds the transaction fee.  Finding the optimum timing of interest claims is left as an exercise to the reader.

We can fix this relatively easily.  Let r = TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES / (BIT_ASSET_SUPPLY - TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES), then the interest should be ACCOUNT_BALANCE * pow(r, PERCENT_OF_YEAR_HELD).

My formula takes compounding into account, so Alice can no longer extract a risk-free profit with the above strategy (the result of claiming interest twice in a year is a balance approximately one tx fee less than the result of claiming interest once in a year.)

If you have an easy way to implement that with 128 bit integer math....

For most people making regular transactions anyway it won't matter. Those that are using cold storage will have to balance the effort with the rewards.

Why 128 bit integer math? Just for speed?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 08, 2014, 12:53:29 pm

I think interest is great.  However,  since that it takes a year to maximize my yield,  I would like to have a command that shows the distribution of coinage in specified account.  For example:
Code: [Select]
>>coinage <account>
And it may returns something like:
Code: [Select]
1. Coinage of 50% of balance is 0.9 year
2. Coinage of 30% of balance is 0.5 year
3. Coinage of 20% of balance is 0.1 year

So I know I can use the 20% without interfering the interest of the other 80% to maximize,  assuming the wallet will automatically choose the 'youngest' BitUSD to spend.

It doesn't take a year to maximize. It is all linear. You just stop earning a yield after a year and actually pay a 5% inactivity fee.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 08, 2014, 12:54:26 pm


In this scheme, the interest computation doesn't do compounding.  So users will have an incentive to spam the network with transactions compounding manually.

For example, suppose Alice has 1000 BitUSD, the current yield is 10% and Alice expects rate of network income to remain the same.

Then Alice can wait to the end of the year and get 100 BitUSD in one interest-claiming transaction.  Or Alice can claim interest in six months, increasing her balance to 1050 BitUSD, then in six more months, claim interest on that 1050 BitUSD balance which brings her to 1102.50.  The extra 2.50 BitUSD Alice extracts far exceeds the transaction fee.  Finding the optimum timing of interest claims is left as an exercise to the reader.

We can fix this relatively easily.  Let r = TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES / (BIT_ASSET_SUPPLY - TOTAL_ACCUMULATED_FEES), then the interest should be ACCOUNT_BALANCE * pow(r, PERCENT_OF_YEAR_HELD).

My formula takes compounding into account, so Alice can no longer extract a risk-free profit with the above strategy (the result of claiming interest twice in a year is a balance approximately one tx fee less than the result of claiming interest once in a year.)

If you have an easy way to implement that with 128 bit integer math....

For most people making regular transactions anyway it won't matter. Those that are using cold storage will have to balance the effort with the rewards.

Why 128 bit integer math? Just for speed?

No, we cannot use floating point because it is not deterministic. 
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: xeroc on September 08, 2014, 01:16:20 pm
Why use floats when everything can be broken down to satoshis larimers ;-)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: liondani on September 08, 2014, 01:31:16 pm
Why use floats when everything can be broken down to satoshis larimers;-)

 +5% +5% +5%

I am sure we get easy to consensus as a community about "larimer's"   ;)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: emski on September 08, 2014, 01:34:29 pm
Why use floats when everything can be broken down to satoshis larimers;-)

 +5% +5% +5%

I am sure we get easy to consensus as a community about "larimer's"   ;)

Why not "dan" ?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 08, 2014, 01:38:34 pm
Why use floats when everything can be broken down to satoshis larimers;-)

 +5% +5% +5%

I am sure we get easy to consensus as a community about "larimer's"   ;)

Why not "dan" ?


I like "dan". It's already three letters like most currencies. Decentralized Atomic Notation?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: liondani on September 08, 2014, 01:55:24 pm
Why use floats when everything can be broken down to satoshis larimers;-)

 +5% +5% +5%

I am sure we get easy to consensus as a community about "larimer's"   ;)

Why not "dan" ?


I like "dan". It's already three letters like most currencies. Decentralized Atomic Notation?

(http://assets1.tribesports.com/system/challenges/images/000/036/850/original/20130212213310-achieve-3rd-dan-black-belt-in-karate.jpg)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_(rank)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 08, 2014, 02:34:04 pm
Than in true open source style it could be a "DAN" = "Decentralized Autonomous DAN"
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Method-X on September 08, 2014, 02:44:19 pm
Than in true open source style it could be a "DAN" = "Decentralized Autonomous DAN"

Decentralized Autonomous Network
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 08, 2014, 02:48:03 pm
Than in true open source style it could be a "DAN" = "Decentralized Autonomous DAN"

Decentralized Autonomous Network


Hmm.  So many expansions. Makes me start to prefer "Larimer"  as atomic unit of BTSX. It's a name you don't hear that much so there's no confusion what you're talking about.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: maqifrnswa on September 08, 2014, 03:02:39 pm
Think this is really interesting, probably will work out very well for the whole system

What was the original plan to do with fees collected that were denominated in bitAssets? Does this essentially take fees away from BTSX but potentially increase transaction volume of BTSX (thus increasing total btsx fees)? I think that's a great trade off if so, but just want to see if that I an accurate description of the situation. It seems like it's shifting some btsx yield into bitasset yield in order to improve the system as a whole.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Xeldal on September 08, 2014, 03:36:43 pm
bugger, I meant to post this here.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8500.msg111203#msg111203

Going short/long at the same time is equivalent to holding BTSX with an option to double your stake at todays prices at any time.

I don't think this is true.  The second half of this 'double stake' was spent in the initial trade to purchase the bitUSD to balance the short.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 08, 2014, 04:23:52 pm
bugger, I meant to post this here.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8500.msg111203#msg111203

Going short/long at the same time is equivalent to holding BTSX with an option to double your stake at todays prices at any time.

I don't think this is true.  The second half of this 'double stake' was spent in the initial trade to purchase the bitUSD to balance the short.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was wrong in my analysis of that position...   it only gains you a share of the rewards on BitAssets while still being effectively LONG btsx.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: theoretical on September 08, 2014, 05:13:47 pm
No, we cannot use floating point because it is not deterministic.

Using floating-point is a big no-no in the contexts of:

- Accounting computations on anything remotely resembling money
- Requiring multiple network nodes to maintain consistent state by doing the same computations independently

Floating point may give different answers on different machines, or with different compilers, compiler settings, or compiler versions.  I found out that we already support two compilers when I had a patch reverted due to a compiler bug in one of them (see https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit/issues/738 ).
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: TanFan on September 09, 2014, 12:00:51 am
Than in true open source style it could be a "DAN" = "Decentralized Autonomous DAN"

Decentralized Autonomous Network


Hmm.  So many expansions. Makes me start to prefer "Larimer"  as atomic unit of BTSX. It's a name you don't hear that much so there's no confusion what you're talking about.

Good point Riverhead.  Using "DAN" may be a little to "cute/clever" whereas "Larimer" is unique and therefore may create a memorable link between BM and perhaps one day the world's #1 crypto-currency.  BM may become as well known as a Gates, Jobs, and Satoshi and that name last recognition may drive adoption AND obviously Dan has earned has name on that atomic unit designation...IMHO.  "DAN" also works well ...tough call.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: xeroc on September 09, 2014, 06:45:00 am
eagerly awaiting LARIMERS on BitSharesME :)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: theoretical on September 09, 2014, 03:57:40 pm

Back to the main topic:  Is interest still scheduled to launch tomorrow?  Has interest been tested yet on any dry run / testnet?
Title: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bitbro on September 09, 2014, 04:16:49 pm
There needs to be no minimum amount of time needed for funds being held to receive interest.  If interest is always accruing then traders will flock like geese to these markets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 09, 2014, 04:19:51 pm
There needs to be no minimum amount of time needed for funds being held to receive interest.  If interest is always accruing then traders will flock like geese to these markets


Agreed. The account owner just needs to decide when it's worth spending a transaction fee to harvest.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: xeroc on September 09, 2014, 04:42:12 pm
I am trying to figure out the fee flow for a quick info graphic ..

Is this about right? What am I missing? Suggestions?

Its for now just the flow .. I will make it more 'pretty'
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Method-X on September 09, 2014, 04:46:56 pm
There needs to be no minimum amount of time needed for funds being held to receive interest.  If interest is always accruing then traders will flock like geese to these markets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 +5% Make money even when you "move to fiat".

However, there may be some issue with this we don't understand.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: serejandmyself on September 09, 2014, 05:16:52 pm
There needs to be no minimum amount of time needed for funds being held to receive interest.  If interest is always accruing then traders will flock like geese to these markets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely its a bit obscure to reciceve interest after 1 day/ Otherwise id come in with a million - get my % and go away.
Title: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bitbro on September 09, 2014, 05:27:47 pm
There needs to be no minimum amount of time needed for funds being held to receive interest.  If interest is always accruing then traders will flock like geese to these markets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely its a bit obscure to reciceve interest after 1 day/ Otherwise id come in with a million - get my % and go away.

the system should incentivize you to stay longer.  I only meant that there should at least be some smaller incentive nearly off the bat... Advertisement purposes...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Chuckone on September 09, 2014, 05:36:50 pm
There needs to be no minimum amount of time needed for funds being held to receive interest.  If interest is always accruing then traders will flock like geese to these markets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely its a bit obscure to reciceve interest after 1 day/ Otherwise id come in with a million - get my % and go away.

If I understood the concept correctly, yep, you would get a % of the tx fees, which mean getting a million in bitUSD for a day would only give you a bigger slice of a fixed pie (total amount of fees allocated to "interests" during that day). Basically, the interest for a day would be very low (percentage wise compared to your investment)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 09, 2014, 05:50:39 pm
There needs to be no minimum amount of time needed for funds being held to receive interest.  If interest is always accruing then traders will flock like geese to these markets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely its a bit obscure to reciceve interest after 1 day/ Otherwise id come in with a million - get my % and go away.

If I understood the concept correctly, yep, you would get a % of the tx fees, which mean getting a million in bitUSD for a day would only give you a bigger slice of a fixed pie (total amount of fees allocated to "interests" during that day). Basically, the interest for a day would be very low (percentage wise compared to your investment)


Said another way the interest, rewards, dividend, whatever, yield percentage is guestimated as an APR (Annual Percentage Rate). To get the daily rate just divide it by 365. So your 1000000 bitUSD at say 7.5% would earn you about $205/day.

Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: serejandmyself on September 09, 2014, 06:17:18 pm
There needs to be no minimum amount of time needed for funds being held to receive interest.  If interest is always accruing then traders will flock like geese to these markets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely its a bit obscure to reciceve interest after 1 day/ Otherwise id come in with a million - get my % and go away.

If I understood the concept correctly, yep, you would get a % of the tx fees, which mean getting a million in bitUSD for a day would only give you a bigger slice of a fixed pie (total amount of fees allocated to "interests" during that day). Basically, the interest for a day would be very low (percentage wise compared to your investment)


Said another way the interest, rewards, dividend, whatever, yield percentage is guestimated as an APR (Annual Percentage Rate). To get the daily rate just divide it by 365. So your 1000000 bitUSD at say 7.5% would earn you about $205/day.

ok but it still seems unsensible to give % over a day
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 09, 2014, 06:21:09 pm
There needs to be no minimum amount of time needed for funds being held to receive interest.  If interest is always accruing then traders will flock like geese to these markets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely its a bit obscure to reciceve interest after 1 day/ Otherwise id come in with a million - get my % and go away.

If I understood the concept correctly, yep, you would get a % of the tx fees, which mean getting a million in bitUSD for a day would only give you a bigger slice of a fixed pie (total amount of fees allocated to "interests" during that day). Basically, the interest for a day would be very low (percentage wise compared to your investment)


Said another way the interest, rewards, dividend, whatever, yield percentage is guestimated as an APR (Annual Percentage Rate). To get the daily rate just divide it by 365. So your 1000000 bitUSD at say 7.5% would earn you about $205/day.

ok but it still seems unsensible to give % over a day


The transaction fee would police that. The more often people cashed out the more fees the system generates the more interest/rewards everyone else earns :).
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 09, 2014, 06:29:41 pm
Latest updates on this yield...

If we make it fully linear with time, then people will attempt to use "compounding" to maximize their return by claiming their interest anytime the benefit from compounding exceeds the transaction fee. 
If we make it non-linear with time then it could make account deposits non-fungible: old balances are worth more than new balances.
There is no computationally simple way to perform "compound interest" because the "interest rate" is variable over time and a number of other complexities.

So we have implemented a compromise rewards system.
1) Any balance held less than 1 day gets nothing.  This rule sets the maximum rate of compounding to daily. 
2) 80% of your balance earns "simple interest" proportional to how long you have held it.
3) 20% of your balance earns "interest^2" proportional to how long you have held it squared... the goal of this rule is to make "long-term holders" better off than if they had attempted to compound it. 

I said it before and I will say it again, this isn't really "interest" because it doesn't "accrue" in a monotonic manner.   Your "estimated yield" could go down from day to day depending upon the rate of new fees, rewards claimed by others, and new issuance.   

So there is no "right or wrong" way to calculate the yield.  I am sure there will be many "games" and "strategies" people will have to maximize their yield at the expense of others such as:
1) claiming their yield right before they expect a supply increase
2) claiming their yield right after a bunch of margin calls reduces BitUSD supply
3) claiming their yield before a large balance hits maturity.

The expectation is that this "bonus" is something that will "average out" as people make transactions and that (for most people) it isn't worth attempting to game.   However, the mere fact that it can be "gamed" will drive people who like this kind of thing to get involved. 

Yes the numbers are a tad arbitrary, the calculations simplistic, but they get the job done of causing BitUSD to have a positive yield proportional to fees earned.


Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: serejandmyself on September 09, 2014, 07:22:42 pm
Latest updates on this yield...

If we make it fully linear with time, then people will attempt to use "compounding" to maximize their return by claiming their interest anytime the benefit from compounding exceeds the transaction fee. 
If we make it non-linear with time then it could make account deposits non-fungible: old balances are worth more than new balances.
There is no computationally simple way to perform "compound interest" because the "interest rate" is variable over time and a number of other complexities.

So we have implemented a compromise rewards system.
1) Any balance held less than 1 day gets nothing.  This rule sets the maximum rate of compounding to daily. 
2) 80% of your balance earns "simple interest" proportional to how long you have held it.
3) 20% of your balance earns "interest^2" proportional to how long you have held it squared... the goal of this rule is to make "long-term holders" better off than if they had attempted to compound it. 

I said it before and I will say it again, this isn't really "interest" because it doesn't "accrue" in a monotonic manner.   Your "estimated yield" could go down from day to day depending upon the rate of new fees, rewards claimed by others, and new issuance.   

So there is no "right or wrong" way to calculate the yield.  I am sure there will be many "games" and "strategies" people will have to maximize their yield at the expense of others such as:
1) claiming their yield right before they expect a supply increase
2) claiming their yield right after a bunch of margin calls reduces BitUSD supply
3) claiming their yield before a large balance hits maturity.

The expectation is that this "bonus" is something that will "average out" as people make transactions and that (for most people) it isn't worth attempting to game.   However, the mere fact that it can be "gamed" will drive people who like this kind of thing to get involved. 

Yes the numbers are a tad arbitrary, the calculations simplistic, but they get the job done of causing BitUSD to have a positive yield proportional to fees earned.

is there a particular reason you chose 80% mark and 20% mark ?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 09, 2014, 07:56:52 pm
If you compound daily at 5% then you will earn $5.13 per $100 vs $5 for simple interest (2.6% compounding advantage)
If you compound daily at 10% then you will earn $110.52  (5.2%) compounding advantage
If you compound daily at 20% then you will earn $122.13  (10.6%) compounding advantage

Bottom line even the most aggressive attempt at compounding / bit asset rewards means it is better to "hold" than to "churn".   

This design makes it over 4x better to hold for 1 year than attempt compounding; however, because we are using T^2 (for calculation simplicity), if you hold for shorter periods of time (say just a few months) then the gains from compounding are about equal to the gains from T^2.

There is probably a point where compounding is better than the "long-term reward" by these calculations, but anyone with that short of a time horizon probably doesn't care about compounding that much anyway *or* have that much money on the table. 

I am sure someone will open up a "savings account" that does long term holding of BitUSD... the market will take these arbitrary rules and rebalance around it.

The easiest way to manage this is to have 2 accounts:  checking.me and savings.me and avoid spending from savings. 

Like most things in life, those that do extra work can reap extra rewards. 




Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: oldman on September 09, 2014, 07:58:57 pm
Latest updates on this yield...

If we make it fully linear with time, then people will attempt to use "compounding" to maximize their return by claiming their interest anytime the benefit from compounding exceeds the transaction fee. 
If we make it non-linear with time then it could make account deposits non-fungible: old balances are worth more than new balances.
There is no computationally simple way to perform "compound interest" because the "interest rate" is variable over time and a number of other complexities.

So we have implemented a compromise rewards system.
1) Any balance held less than 1 day gets nothing.  This rule sets the maximum rate of compounding to daily. 
2) 80% of your balance earns "simple interest" proportional to how long you have held it.
3) 20% of your balance earns "interest^2" proportional to how long you have held it squared... the goal of this rule is to make "long-term holders" better off than if they had attempted to compound it. 

I said it before and I will say it again, this isn't really "interest" because it doesn't "accrue" in a monotonic manner.   Your "estimated yield" could go down from day to day depending upon the rate of new fees, rewards claimed by others, and new issuance.   

So there is no "right or wrong" way to calculate the yield.  I am sure there will be many "games" and "strategies" people will have to maximize their yield at the expense of others such as:
1) claiming their yield right before they expect a supply increase
2) claiming their yield right after a bunch of margin calls reduces BitUSD supply
3) claiming their yield before a large balance hits maturity.

The expectation is that this "bonus" is something that will "average out" as people make transactions and that (for most people) it isn't worth attempting to game.   However, the mere fact that it can be "gamed" will drive people who like this kind of thing to get involved. 

Yes the numbers are a tad arbitrary, the calculations simplistic, but they get the job done of causing BitUSD to have a positive yield proportional to fees earned.

'Yield' could replace rewards as a non-contentious alternative to interest.

A bit awkward in common use but still an improvement over 'reward'.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 09, 2014, 08:05:11 pm
Latest updates on this yield...

If we make it fully linear with time, then people will attempt to use "compounding" to maximize their return by claiming their interest anytime the benefit from compounding exceeds the transaction fee. 
If we make it non-linear with time then it could make account deposits non-fungible: old balances are worth more than new balances.
There is no computationally simple way to perform "compound interest" because the "interest rate" is variable over time and a number of other complexities.

So we have implemented a compromise rewards system.
1) Any balance held less than 1 day gets nothing.  This rule sets the maximum rate of compounding to daily. 
2) 80% of your balance earns "simple interest" proportional to how long you have held it.
3) 20% of your balance earns "interest^2" proportional to how long you have held it squared... the goal of this rule is to make "long-term holders" better off than if they had attempted to compound it. 

I said it before and I will say it again, this isn't really "interest" because it doesn't "accrue" in a monotonic manner.   Your "estimated yield" could go down from day to day depending upon the rate of new fees, rewards claimed by others, and new issuance.   

So there is no "right or wrong" way to calculate the yield.  I am sure there will be many "games" and "strategies" people will have to maximize their yield at the expense of others such as:
1) claiming their yield right before they expect a supply increase
2) claiming their yield right after a bunch of margin calls reduces BitUSD supply
3) claiming their yield before a large balance hits maturity.

The expectation is that this "bonus" is something that will "average out" as people make transactions and that (for most people) it isn't worth attempting to game.   However, the mere fact that it can be "gamed" will drive people who like this kind of thing to get involved. 

Yes the numbers are a tad arbitrary, the calculations simplistic, but they get the job done of causing BitUSD to have a positive yield proportional to fees earned.

'Yield' could replace rewards as a non-contentious alternative to interest.

A bit awkward in common use but still an improvement over 'reward'.

Exactly which is why the UI + API use yield rather than interest :)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: oldman on September 09, 2014, 08:58:45 pm

'Yield' could replace rewards as a non-contentious alternative to interest.

A bit awkward in common use but still an improvement over 'reward'.

Exactly which is why the UI + API use yield rather than interest :)

Bravo! Great news!  +5%
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: arhag on September 09, 2014, 09:09:04 pm
There is no computationally simple way to perform "compound interest" because the "interest rate" is variable over time and a number of other complexities.

Is this because it would take too much time to compute the factor to multiply the BitUSD value by for each transaction? Meaning if each block determines a factor f_i (representing e^y where y is the per block variable yield rate) for each BitAsset, then for each transaction with BitAsset inputs you would need to get all the BitAsset's f_i from block i = m where the transaction was created to block i = n which is the current block where the transaction was spent, and then multiply the BitAsset value by f_m * f_(m+1) * ... * f_n to get its new value with yield.

I said it before and I will say it again, this isn't really "interest" because it doesn't "accrue" in a monotonic manner.   Your "estimated yield" could go down from day to day depending upon the rate of new fees, rewards claimed by others, and new issuance.   

Well as long as the yield rate is non-negative (which it should be) the value of your BitAssets are monotonically increasing.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 09, 2014, 09:36:40 pm
There is no computationally simple way to perform "compound interest" because the "interest rate" is variable over time and a number of other complexities.

Is this because it would take too much time to compute the factor to multiply the BitUSD value by for each transaction? Meaning if each block determines a factor f_i (representing e^y where y is the per block variable yield rate) for each BitAsset, then for each transaction with BitAsset inputs you would need to get all the BitAsset's f_i from block i = m where the transaction was created to block i = n which is the current block where the transaction was spent, and then multiply the BitAsset value by f_m * f_(m+1) * ... * f_n to get its new value with yield.

Yes.  It would greatly increase database size and transaction processing time.  I know how to "do it proper" from the original dividends design for BTSX.  It requires an accumulation table that must be updated every block for 1 years worth of blocks. 

Quote
I said it before and I will say it again, this isn't really "interest" because it doesn't "accrue" in a monotonic manner.   Your "estimated yield" could go down from day to day depending upon the rate of new fees, rewards claimed by others, and new issuance.   

Well as long as the yield rate is non-negative (which it should be) the value of your BitAssets are monotonically increasing.

Well the GUI shows "Estimated Yield" if you made a transaction "right now"... but the estimation could go down relative to an earlier estimation but it will never be negative. 
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: GaltReport on September 09, 2014, 10:14:00 pm
There is no computationally simple way to perform "compound interest" because the "interest rate" is variable over time and a number of other complexities.

Is this because it would take too much time to compute the factor to multiply the BitUSD value by for each transaction? Meaning if each block determines a factor f_i (representing e^y where y is the per block variable yield rate) for each BitAsset, then for each transaction with BitAsset inputs you would need to get all the BitAsset's f_i from block i = m where the transaction was created to block i = n which is the current block where the transaction was spent, and then multiply the BitAsset value by f_m * f_(m+1) * ... * f_n to get its new value with yield.

Yes.  It would greatly increase database size and transaction processing time.  I know how to "do it proper" from the original dividends design for BTSX.  It requires an accumulation table that must be updated every block for 1 years worth of blocks. 

Quote
I said it before and I will say it again, this isn't really "interest" because it doesn't "accrue" in a monotonic manner.   Your "estimated yield" could go down from day to day depending upon the rate of new fees, rewards claimed by others, and new issuance.   

Well as long as the yield rate is non-negative (which it should be) the value of your BitAssets are monotonically increasing.

Well the GUI shows "Estimated Yield" if you made a transaction "right now"... but the estimation could go down relative to an earlier estimation but it will never be negative.

Great you got something in the GUI for it already !!  +5%
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: arhag on September 09, 2014, 10:31:51 pm
There is no computationally simple way to perform "compound interest" because the "interest rate" is variable over time and a number of other complexities.

Is this because it would take too much time to compute the factor to multiply the BitUSD value by for each transaction? Meaning if each block determines a factor f_i (representing e^y where y is the per block variable yield rate) for each BitAsset, then for each transaction with BitAsset inputs you would need to get all the BitAsset's f_i from block i = m where the transaction was created to block i = n which is the current block where the transaction was spent, and then multiply the BitAsset value by f_m * f_(m+1) * ... * f_n to get its new value with yield.

Yes.  It would greatly increase database size and transaction processing time.  I know how to "do it proper" from the original dividends design for BTSX.  It requires an accumulation table that must be updated every block for 1 years worth of blocks. 

Alright, that's too bad. Is this accumulation table the accumulating product from f_0 (factor for block in which the BitAsset was created) to f_n (current block) for each BitAsset? I don't quite understand why it has to increase the database size and transaction processing time by much. First, let me define that accumulating product for BitUSD to be p_n = f_c * f_(c+1) * ... * f_n, where block c was when yields for the BitAsset began. Also p_n = 1 for n < c. Then when creating a new transaction the after yield value of a BitUSD input = before yield value * p_n / p_m, where the current block is block n and the transaction containing the BitUSD output that is spent in the new transaction is on block m. Only the values for p_i for each block i and for each BitAsset need to be stored in the local client database. When validating the transaction the p_n value is already calculated (and stored in the database) for the current block and a look up from the database of the value p_m for each input of each transaction to be validated in the current block should be pretty fast (I think). Is the issue that this approach would have too much numerical error? Could rounding in favor of lower yields resolve that? What else am I missing?

Quote
I said it before and I will say it again, this isn't really "interest" because it doesn't "accrue" in a monotonic manner.   Your "estimated yield" could go down from day to day depending upon the rate of new fees, rewards claimed by others, and new issuance.   

Well as long as the yield rate is non-negative (which it should be) the value of your BitAssets are monotonically increasing.

Well the GUI shows "Estimated Yield" if you made a transaction "right now"... but the estimation could go down relative to an earlier estimation but it will never be negative.

Ah, I see. Yeah, I momentarily forgot that the current yield implementation is the compromising, easier-to-implement version rather than the one that compounds at every block. I get how the estimated yield on top of the current BitAsset balances would fluctuate over time. Which is what I find annoying about the compromising approach: that it can be gamed. But if it really does complicate validation and increase database size then I guess it isn't that big of a deal.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: theoretical on September 10, 2014, 06:29:33 am
Is this because it would take too much time to compute the factor to multiply the BitUSD value by for each transaction? Meaning if each block determines a factor f_i (representing e^y where y is the per block variable yield rate) for each BitAsset, then for each transaction with BitAsset inputs you would need to get all the BitAsset's f_i from block i = m where the transaction was created to block i = n which is the current block where the transaction was spent, and then multiply the BitAsset value by f_m * f_(m+1) * ... * f_n to get its new value with yield.

Yes.  It would greatly increase database size and transaction processing time.  I know how to "do it proper" from the original dividends design for BTSX.  It requires an accumulation table that must be updated every block for 1 years worth of blocks. 


I'm guessing bytemaster wants to save the product between b[m] and b[n] for all pairs of blocks m, n.  I posted how to avoid this earlier in this thread (four word answer: partial sum skip list), but I'll go into more detail since both of you apparently missed (or misunderstood) that post.

I propose using sums of logarithms instead of multiplying (so we can do many-block sequences without worrying too much about various approximation issues).  Then only save partial sums that are aligned power-of-two length.  So you save (in your notation):

Code: [Select]
run(m,  1) = f_m                                     # for all blocks
run(m,  2) = f_m + f_{m+1}                           # for every 2nd block
run(m,  4) = f_m + f_{m+1} + f_{m+2} + f_{m+3}       # for every 4th block
run(m,  8) = f_m + f_{m+1} + f_{m+2} + f_{m+3} + f_{m+4} + f_{m+5} + f_{m+6} + f_{m+7}
                                                     # for every 8th block, etc... for every power of 2

If total number of blocks is N, this data structure needs at most 2N-1 entries (hint: total size is a geometric series).

So if you want to find e.g. the sum of logs from 0x7159 (inclusive) to 0x1258a (exclusive), you can compute that as:

Code: [Select]
run(0x7159, 1) + run(0x715a, 2) + run(0x715c, 4) + run(0x7160, 0x20) + run(0x7180, 0x80) + run(0x7200, 0x200) + run(0x7400, 0x400) + run(0x7800, 0x800) + run(0x8000, 0x8000) + run(0x10000, 0x2000) + run(0x12000, 0x400) + run(0x12400, 0x100) + run(0x12500, 0x80) + run(0x12580, 8) + run(0x12588, 2)

The proper bit twiddling operations to implement this are left as an exercise to the reader.

Updating a block will usually be fast, requiring only the last few blocks.  Block heights divisible by large powers of 2 will happen and reach higher in the blockchain (on an exponentially rare basis), but in all cases at most log(N) values need be saved, each of which requires at most log(N) time.  (I think the actual bound is just log(N) instead of log(N)^2 because you re-use the tail part and only need to reach back one more entry, but log^2(N) is still fast enough.)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: emski on September 10, 2014, 06:37:48 am
What happens If I want to change vote with my savings account?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 10, 2014, 03:48:12 pm
What happens If I want to change vote with my savings account?

Voting doesn't affect BitAssets.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: emski on September 10, 2014, 04:13:45 pm
What happens If I want to change vote with my savings account?

Voting doesn't affect BitAssets.

So I can vote with my BTSX held as collateral?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 10, 2014, 04:14:53 pm
What happens If I want to change vote with my savings account?

Voting doesn't affect BitAssets.

So I can vote with my BTSX held as collateral?

Not yet, but eventually :)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Empirical1.1 on September 10, 2014, 09:55:15 pm
Great job on the BitUSD Yield! It's such a big deal to me.

I see there's already 'Estimated yield'. I would personally like to see 'BitAssets Current Annual Yield %' prominently displayed?

I think most people will be comparing it to the kind of interest/yield rate they can get elsewhere vs. BitAssets and most compare annual percentages. Even if it's variable, I would think what BitAssets currently yield expressed an annual percentage prominently displayed is most marketable.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: tonyk on September 10, 2014, 10:01:32 pm
Great job on the BitUSD Yield! It's such a big deal to me.

I see there's already 'Estimated yield'. I would personally like to see 'BitAssets Current Annual Yield %' prominently displayed?

I think most people will be comparing it to the kind of interest/yield rate they can get elsewhere vs. BitAssets and most compare annual percentages. Even if it's variable, I would think what BitAssets currently yield expressed an annual percentage prominently displayed is most marketable.
+5%
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 10, 2014, 10:03:00 pm
Great job on the BitUSD Yield! It's such a big deal to me.

I see there's already 'Estimated yield'. I would personally like to see 'BitAssets Current Annual Yield %' prominently displayed?

I think most people will be comparing it to the kind of interest/yield rate they can get elsewhere vs. BitAssets and most compare annual percentages. Even if it's variable, I would think what BitAssets currently yield expressed an annual percentage prominently displayed is most marketable.


Sounds like an opportunity for a 3rd party site with some sweet graphs :).
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: eagleeye on September 10, 2014, 10:05:21 pm
2 Cheers for THE Bytemaster.

Hip Hip Hooray.
Hip Hip Hooray.

We save the third for something special done.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: onceuponatime on September 10, 2014, 10:08:16 pm
Great job on the BitUSD Yield! It's such a big deal to me.

I see there's already 'Estimated yield'. I would personally like to see 'BitAssets Current Annual Yield %' prominently displayed?

I think most people will be comparing it to the kind of interest/yield rate they can get elsewhere vs. BitAssets and most compare annual percentages. Even if it's variable, I would think what BitAssets currently yield expressed an annual percentage prominently displayed is most marketable.

I am holding bitUSD and my account shows an "Estimated Yield" as a USD amount. My question is what does that represent? Is that a day's worth, a month's worth, an annual yield? The amount does not seem to fit any of those.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 10, 2014, 10:21:05 pm
Great job on the BitUSD Yield! It's such a big deal to me.

I see there's already 'Estimated yield'. I would personally like to see 'BitAssets Current Annual Yield %' prominently displayed?

I think most people will be comparing it to the kind of interest/yield rate they can get elsewhere vs. BitAssets and most compare annual percentages. Even if it's variable, I would think what BitAssets currently yield expressed an annual percentage prominently displayed is most marketable.

I am holding bitUSD and my account shows an "Estimated Yield" as a USD amount. My question is what does that represent? Is that a day's worth, a month's worth, an annual yield? The amount does not seem to fit any of those.


BM said the yield was retroactive. Try a daily rate from the day you purchased the bitUSD?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: onceuponatime on September 10, 2014, 10:40:00 pm
Great job on the BitUSD Yield! It's such a big deal to me.

I see there's already 'Estimated yield'. I would personally like to see 'BitAssets Current Annual Yield %' prominently displayed?

I think most people will be comparing it to the kind of interest/yield rate they can get elsewhere vs. BitAssets and most compare annual percentages. Even if it's variable, I would think what BitAssets currently yield expressed an annual percentage prominently displayed is most marketable.

I am holding bitUSD and my account shows an "Estimated Yield" as a USD amount. My question is what does that represent? Is that a day's worth, a month's worth, an annual yield? The amount does not seem to fit any of those.


BM said the yield was retroactive. Try a daily rate from the day you purchased the bitUSD?

I don't think so. At 5% I would have had to have held the bitUSD for 27 days to get to the amount of estimated yield.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 10, 2014, 10:41:51 pm
Great job on the BitUSD Yield! It's such a big deal to me.

I see there's already 'Estimated yield'. I would personally like to see 'BitAssets Current Annual Yield %' prominently displayed?

I think most people will be comparing it to the kind of interest/yield rate they can get elsewhere vs. BitAssets and most compare annual percentages. Even if it's variable, I would think what BitAssets currently yield expressed an annual percentage prominently displayed is most marketable.

I am holding bitUSD and my account shows an "Estimated Yield" as a USD amount. My question is what does that represent? Is that a day's worth, a month's worth, an annual yield? The amount does not seem to fit any of those.


BM said the yield was retroactive. Try a daily rate from the day you purchased the bitUSD?

I don't think so. At 5% I would have had to have held the bitUSD for 27 days to get to the amount of estimated yield.


Maybe we're kicking the pants off 5%? :D
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: tonyk on September 10, 2014, 10:57:38 pm
Great job on the BitUSD Yield! It's such a big deal to me.

I see there's already 'Estimated yield'. I would personally like to see 'BitAssets Current Annual Yield %' prominently displayed?

I think most people will be comparing it to the kind of interest/yield rate they can get elsewhere vs. BitAssets and most compare annual percentages. Even if it's variable, I would think what BitAssets currently yield expressed an annual percentage prominently displayed is most marketable.

I am holding bitUSD and my account shows an "Estimated Yield" as a USD amount. My question is what does that represent? Is that a day's worth, a month's worth, an annual yield? The amount does not seem to fit any of those.


BM said the yield was retroactive. Try a daily rate from the day you purchased the bitUSD?

I don't think so. At 5% I would have had to have held the bitUSD for 27 days to get to the amount of estimated yield.

Current the total yield is 0.003936 (aka 0.3936%). I do not know the total time that bitUSD have been in existence but must be something like 3 weeks; My total yield, as of last night, was 0.478 bitUSD which means that I must have held 121.43 bitUSD on average for the whole period. It does seem a bit high (but totally possible), as I have held, granted bigger amounts, but just for trading purposes (i.e. until I close the position, usually in far less time than 24h).
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Gentso1 on September 11, 2014, 12:36:39 am
Ok so I have a est. yield for bitUSD how and when do I collect it, as others have said it would be great to see the % we are getting for holding bitUSD. So far it looks good to me.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Gentso1 on September 11, 2014, 12:53:42 am
Ok so I have a est. yield for bitUSD how and when do I collect it, as others have said it would be great to see the % we are getting for holding bitUSD. So far it looks good to me.
I transferred the bitUSD amount to myself thinking that might allow me to collect it but it took my est. yield to 0.00 and I didn't get any "interest".
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: tonyk on September 11, 2014, 01:02:51 am
Sorry to hear that.
My guess is you should have waited till 3:00pm Eastern time tomorrow. Just a guess though.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Gentso1 on September 11, 2014, 01:59:16 am
Interesting, what happens at 3 pm tomorrow. What are you baseing this guess off of? Did I miss something?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 11, 2014, 02:02:50 am
Interesting, what happens at 3 pm tomorrow. What are you baseing this guess off of? Did I miss something?


0 yield for 24 hours on bitUSD then it starts...or perhaps becomes claimable. There's a link somewhere where BM lays it out. However I suspect what happened to you wasn't by design as you never really didn't own it.


Maybe it'll show up in your account tomorrow. It's not like you didn't earn it. Shouldn't lose it for early claim.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Gentso1 on September 11, 2014, 02:22:20 am
Well let's wait and see now I am really interested to see what happens. Anyone look on bter and see what bitusd is trading at ;)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: xeroc on September 11, 2014, 08:41:45 am
awesome!
(http://i.imgur.com/KjvZcdj.png)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: serejandmyself on September 11, 2014, 08:45:06 am
awesome!
(http://i.imgur.com/KjvZcdj.png)

WTI next? Or GLD?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: oldman on September 11, 2014, 07:19:15 pm
awesome!
(http://i.imgur.com/KjvZcdj.png)

WTI next? Or GLD?

I would vote for GLD/SLV.

There is literally trillions of wealth stored in these metals.

Most of the wealth, however, amount to claims on assets held by third parties that may or may not exist (see COMEX inventory etc). ie. The counterparty risk is enormous.

This means there is a vast quantity of wealth that wants exposure to the price of PMs but don't want to physically hold the metals.

bitGLD is way to gain exposure to price movement without the counterparty risk. And get a decent yield to boot.

Get GLD/SLV bootstrapped and then put out a few well-placed press releases. Bam.



Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: jsidhu on September 11, 2014, 07:24:51 pm
After GLD/SLV... articles like these: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/09/11/heres-what-the-bank-of-england-thinks-of-bitcoin/ where critics have argued bitcoin wouldn't be adapted for reasons stated within, would quickly be countered with what bitsharesx could offer.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Gentso1 on September 11, 2014, 11:32:10 pm
just a update but it looks like the interest is gone because I transferred money to myself. Yield est. is now zero. can anyone inform me what the correct way to collect interest from bitUSD is? don't want to lose anymore money guessing.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: liondani on September 11, 2014, 11:48:38 pm
just a update but it looks like the interest is gone because I transferred money to myself. Yield est. is now zero. can anyone inform me what the correct way to collect interest from bitUSD is? don't want to lose anymore money guessing.

if this is true does it mean we loose yield every time we vote ?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: GaltReport on September 11, 2014, 11:58:07 pm
just a update but it looks like the interest is gone because I transferred money to myself. Yield est. is now zero. can anyone inform me what the correct way to collect interest from bitUSD is? don't want to lose anymore money guessing.

if this is true does it mean we loose yield every time we vote ?

Actually I think you RECEIVE the interest when you make a transaction. I sent some BitUSD to some for shirts and some interest was added to my account I think. I could be wrong but Check your transaction history.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 12, 2014, 02:08:37 am
just a update but it looks like the interest is gone because I transferred money to myself. Yield est. is now zero. can anyone inform me what the correct way to collect interest from bitUSD is? don't want to lose anymore money guessing.

if this is true does it mean we loose yield every time we vote ?

Actually I think you RECEIVE the interest when you make a transaction. I sent some BitUSD to some for shirts and some interest was added to my account I think. I could be wrong but Check your transaction history.

Yes, when you make a transaction your "estimated yield' turns into "paid out yield". 
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: tonyk on September 12, 2014, 02:12:12 am
just a update but it looks like the interest is gone because I transferred money to myself. Yield est. is now zero. can anyone inform me what the correct way to collect interest from bitUSD is? don't want to lose anymore money guessing.

if this is true does it mean we loose yield every time we vote ?

Actually I think you RECEIVE the interest when you make a transaction. I sent some BitUSD to some for shirts and some interest was added to my account I think. I could be wrong but Check your transaction history.

Yes, when you make a transaction your "estimated yield' turns into "paid out yield".
Is there a way to see the paid out yield in the GUI/CLI yet? Does not seem to be represented by any particular transaction.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 12, 2014, 02:14:34 am
just a update but it looks like the interest is gone because I transferred money to myself. Yield est. is now zero. can anyone inform me what the correct way to collect interest from bitUSD is? don't want to lose anymore money guessing.

if this is true does it mean we loose yield every time we vote ?

Actually I think you RECEIVE the interest when you make a transaction. I sent some BitUSD to some for shirts and some interest was added to my account I think. I could be wrong but Check your transaction history.

Yes, when you make a transaction your "estimated yield' turns into "paid out yield".
Is there a way to see the paid out yield in the GUI/CLI yet? Does not seem to be represented by any particular transaction.

Filter your transaction history with the phrase "yield" and you will see it.  It only gets paid as part of transactions that move BitUSD/etc.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: sschechter on September 12, 2014, 02:34:33 am
Is this working properly?  I don't see my estimated yield going up and the value is a lot less than I thought it would be after holding some bitUSD a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: xeroc on September 12, 2014, 06:38:12 am
Is this working properly?  I don't see my estimated yield going up and the value is a lot less than I thought it would be after holding some bitUSD a couple of weeks.
yield is only active for 2 days now .. so holding it for some weeks is currently worth 2 days :-)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Gentso1 on September 12, 2014, 11:54:20 am
just a update but it looks like the interest is gone because I transferred money to myself. Yield est. is now zero. can anyone inform me what the correct way to collect interest from bitUSD is? don't want to lose anymore money guessing.

if this is true does it mean we loose yield every time we vote ?

Actually I think you RECEIVE the interest when you make a transaction. I sent some BitUSD to some for shirts and some interest was added to my account I think. I could be wrong but Check your transaction history.

Yes, when you make a transaction your "estimated yield' turns into "paid out yield".
Is there a way to see the paid out yield in the GUI/CLI yet? Does not seem to be represented by any particular transaction.

Filter your transaction history with the phrase "yield" and you will see it.  It only gets paid as part of transactions that move BitUSD/etc.
I filtered the transactions to yield and no payment. yield has also been reset because I can see a new amount accruing but it is no where near old amount. What can I do on my end to help this be looked at further?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: biophil on September 12, 2014, 02:28:01 pm
just a update but it looks like the interest is gone because I transferred money to myself. Yield est. is now zero. can anyone inform me what the correct way to collect interest from bitUSD is? don't want to lose anymore money guessing.

if this is true does it mean we loose yield every time we vote ?

Actually I think you RECEIVE the interest when you make a transaction. I sent some BitUSD to some for shirts and some interest was added to my account I think. I could be wrong but Check your transaction history.

Yes, when you make a transaction your "estimated yield' turns into "paid out yield".
Is there a way to see the paid out yield in the GUI/CLI yet? Does not seem to be represented by any particular transaction.

Filter your transaction history with the phrase "yield" and you will see it.  It only gets paid as part of transactions that move BitUSD/etc.
I filtered the transactions to yield and no payment. yield has also been reset because I can see a new amount accruing but it is no where near old amount. What can I do on my end to help this be looked at further?

I'm having the same issue. I had 0.24-odd bitUSD accrued, I transferred my entire bitUSD balance to myself, and zap - the yield now reads zero and I got no yield payment.

However, yesterday I placed a sell order with some bitUSD, and did receive a yield payment for that. So is it possible yield is re-setting for all transactions, but only paying for certain ones?
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 12, 2014, 08:18:47 pm
Known issue with yield payouts... fix implemented.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Gentso1 on September 12, 2014, 09:18:00 pm
Known issue with yield payouts... fix implemented.
will I be able to get the "lost" interest with the fix. It was for more then a 1-2 dollars
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: liondani on September 12, 2014, 11:22:18 pm
a button to move bitAssets to our self would be nice  ;)
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Gentso1 on September 14, 2014, 04:45:30 pm
Known issue with yield payouts... fix implemented.
Any comment on the "lost yield" because of the bug. I was wishfully thinking that with the latest fix that I would have some how gotten it but that was not the case.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 14, 2014, 05:53:20 pm
a button to move bitAssets to our self would be nice  ;)

I agree. 
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: bytemaster on September 14, 2014, 05:54:00 pm
Known issue with yield payouts... fix implemented.
Any comment on the "lost yield" because of the bug. I was wishfully thinking that with the latest fix that I would have some how gotten it but that was not the case.

Unfortunately, the "lost yield" is not recoverable. 
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Riverhead on September 14, 2014, 06:05:21 pm
Known issue with yield payouts... fix implemented.
Any comment on the "lost yield" because of the bug. I was wishfully thinking that with the latest fix that I would have some how gotten it but that was not the case.

Unfortunately, the "lost yield" is not recoverable.

Eh, I can't feel bad about losing something a week ago I didn't know I was going to have.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: Gentso1 on September 14, 2014, 09:23:09 pm
Known issue with yield payouts... fix implemented.
Any comment on the "lost yield" because of the bug. I was wishfully thinking that with the latest fix that I would have some how gotten it but that was not the case.

Unfortunately, the "lost yield" is not recoverable.
Thanks for the update. it sucks but it isn't the end of the world.
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: liondani on September 15, 2014, 06:14:14 am
a button to move bitAssets to our self would be nice  ;)

I agree.

It could be labeled something like this:

"Redeem your current Yield"
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: serejandmyself on September 15, 2014, 06:30:54 am
i just sold the lowest amount i could of the asset to get my yield. now i know it works
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: tonyk on September 15, 2014, 06:37:25 am
i just sold the lowest amount i could of the asset to get my yield. now i know it works

Cool!
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: serejandmyself on September 15, 2014, 06:40:10 am
if only i could now sell 0.0001 usd and get 0.1 usd for everytime i did it  :) or sell 100 satoshi and get 8500 satoshi + a very low amount of btsx. Can we make a button for it -"Sell less, get more"  :D
Title: Re: BitUSD Yield (aka Interest) Scheduled for Launch Wednesday
Post by: starspirit on September 16, 2014, 05:36:29 am
Now that the yield has been introduced on USD, based on transaction fee pool, but USD is still discounted, I am wondering if a floating incentive paid from shorts to longs is still a future possibility or has this been shelved?