Hacking a properly created cold wallet is impossible however it may not have been a properly created cold wallet
a) the wallet may have been created using compromised software (given how long the wallet has existed this is unlikely)
b) the randomly generated keys in the wallet may have had poor entropy (also unlikely)
c) the wallet was compromised due to poor signing with repeat k values (unlikely but can be verified from transaction history)
d) despite the company calling it a 'cold wallet' is wasn't a cold wallet* at all and was compromised just as any other hot wallet would be
e) someone (most likely an employee) with physical access to the cold wallet data file stole the coins
* A 'cold wallet' would be a private key or keys created by an offline machine and the private keys are never used on a machine that is or has been connected to the internet. Signing of transactions should be done offline as well. If you create a 'cold wallet' and then move it to a computer which is connected to the internet then it is no longer a cold wallet.
During the latest telephone interview with Bter CEO Han Lin, he said that this 7000+ BTC is all of their BTC cold storage reserve, now they end up with 200 BTC in their other hot wallet atm. Also he commented the hacker has been very professional, so it's hard to trace him and reclaim the lost fund.
Right now they still have no idea what method the hacker used to hack, as a result they still suspend all altcoin wallets because they don't want to risk it.
Oei, that's a big problem. Shapeshift uses bter for us and Nubits. This could be a devastating blow for them.
In the meantime...
shapeshift is also not exchanging btc to bts and bitusd (presumable it uses bter)
bitsharesblock doesn't work
metaexchange for btc bitbtc is in maintenance...
It will be an exciting day today...
I would recommend that all of you withdraw your BTS from other exchanges to our internal exchange and continue your trading there.. Even if it is slower it is more secure from hackers...Now is the time to advertise our exchange and show to the rest of communities what decentralised trading means..
Oei, that's a big problem. Shapeshift uses bter for us and Nubits. This could be a devastating blow for them.
Not to mention some other projects we have running on bter.
Oei, that's a big problem. Shapeshift uses bter for us and Nubits. This could be a devastating blow for them.
Not to mention some other projects we have running on bter.
I hope our bts dev fund is not trapped in bter.
Poloniex just froze BTS trades. Not sure if this is because they haven't upgraded to the hardfork. Or it's because they've got some rather large deposits.
..
It will be an exciting day today...
..
In case bts in bter hacked, can we vote to fork and reverse the transaction?
My laptop can't run the client so I was waiting for the light client to withdraw my balance; and if indeed BTS has been lost that would, well, don't want to think about it now.
. Their support is still responsive though.
Dear Sir, Our dev is doing security checking currently. Our dev will try to finish it as soon as possible
Please kindly keep an eye on our website for the update
Best Regards Bter.com
In case bts in bter hacked, can we vote to fork and reverse the transaction?
Can the block explorer show if there were large movements?
I hope its possible to hardfork and remove them. My laptop can't run the client so I was waiting for the light client to withdraw my balance; and if indeed BTS has been lost that would, well, don't want to think about it now.
Yeah, but imagine what the world would think if we successfully thwarted a blatantly obvious MtGox type heist by voting as a community to roll back a couple transactions on the blockchian (and the transactions that sprouted from those of course) and returned to them to the affected party (BTER).
We would look like superman-coin!
And of course we could explain to Max Keiser, USA Today, Wall Strett Journal, Bloomberg, etc., that this was something that could only easily be done right now because our coin and community is so small (so no future guarantees)
reimburse those affected via donations. Of course it would be much easier right now because hardly anybody is using our blockchain.
What good is our BitShares VOTING capability if we cannot vote to thwart the greatest criminal villain mastermind in BTS history!
We would say that once 1.0 comes out, then it's every man, woman, and centralized exchange for themselves from that point onward or something to that nature.
If we do nothing but take it, then the price of BTS will fall like BTC after MtGox, if we become the first blockchain in history to thwart a crime, then we would gain the "centralized community control margin of safety" that causes Ripple to be such a high market cap that we crave.
BitShares - the first and only safe AND decentralized crypto (Ripple is "safely controlled" but not decentralized).
Safety builds confidence, and investors love confidence and transparency.
Do we know whether BTS also have been stolen? Sadly bitsharesblocks.com is down atm too se we can't check. Or can we?
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.lol .. harsh but true: we told you so :)
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.
JAJAJAJAJAJ
yeah can say too, if you never buy bts sure not have this problems WTF
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.
hardly, cryptohedge was/is performing a valuable service enforcing the peg on exchanges.
Also true .. sucks .. maybe @Rune can tell us how much btc may be lostTo all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.
hardly, cryptohedge was/is performing a valuable service enforcing the peg on exchanges.
Too bad, bter ruins it.To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.
hardly, cryptohedge was/is performing a valuable service enforcing the peg on exchanges.
Yeah, but imagine what the world would think if we successfully thwarted a blatantly obvious MtGox type heist by voting as a community to roll back a couple transactions on the blockchian (and the transactions that sprouted from those of course) and returned to them to the affected party (BTER).
We would look like superman-coin!
And of course we could explain to Max Keiser, USA Today, Wall Strett Journal, Bloomberg, etc., that this was something that could only easily be done right now because our coin and community is so small (so no future guarantees)
reimburse those affected via donations. Of course it would be much easier right now because hardly anybody is using our blockchain.
What good is our BitShares VOTING capability if we cannot vote to thwart the greatest criminal villain mastermind in BTS history!
We would say that once 1.0 comes out, then it's every man, woman, and centralized exchange for themselves from that point onward or something to that nature.
If we do nothing but take it, then the price of BTS will fall like BTC after MtGox, if we become the first blockchain in history to thwart a crime, then we would gain the "centralized community control margin of safety" that causes Ripple to be such a high market cap that we crave.
BitShares - the first and only safe AND decentralized crypto (Ripple is "safely controlled" but not decentralized).
Safety builds confidence, and investors love confidence and transparency.
"Bter has announcement.
http://weibo.com/p/1001603810634063024170"
About bit instructions regarding stolen children BTC
2015年2月15日 22:10
After preliminary examination to determine, February 14, 2015 Hackers use our instant hot from cold filled purse wallet, the bit cold TWS children all BTC wallet stolen, totaling 7170BTC, transfer records for:
https://blockchain.info/tx/f5b0363f03e1ed8bb812c135361ea93590c831ce9f13a3750be1b93575baccc6
We've February 15, 2015 the morning to the local police station and was accepted. We will actively cooperate with the police investigation, the recovery of stolen Bitcoins. At the same time, we are offering a reward of 7170 720BTC recover stolen Bitcoins here. To ensure the safety of other funds, we have taken technical measures to stop and turn off all the virtual currency trading online wallet, to do further checks. At the same time, we plan to arrange CNY extraction and other virtual currency as soon as possible to reduce the user to worry about. For losses caused by the user and we apologize
,
Up to now a bit child has been in operation for nearly two years. We traveled together to accompany the ups and downs of the bitcoin. We look at a variety of currencies to accompany the rise of decline. Please be assured that we will not run away, we will assume responsibility for the user to recover the stolen Bitcoins.
关于比特儿BTC被盗一事的说明
2015年2月15日 22:10
经初步检查确定,2015年2月14日黑客利用我们从冷钱包填充热钱包的瞬间,将比特儿交易平台冷钱包中的所有BTC盗走,总额为7170BTC,转账记录为:
https://blockchain.info/tx/f5b0363f03e1ed8bb812c135361ea93590c831ce9f13a3750be1b93575baccc6
我们已经在2015年2月15日上午到当地派出所报案并被受理。我们将积极配合警方调查处理,追讨被盗的比特币。同时,我们在此悬赏720BTC追讨被盗的7170比特币。
为了确保其他资金安全,我们已经采取技术措施,停止交易并关闭所有虚拟币在线钱包,去做进一步检查。于此同时,我们计划尽快安排CNY以及其他虚拟币的提取工作,减少用户担心。对用户造成的损失我们深表歉意,
截止到现在比特儿已经运营了快两年了。陪大家一起走过了比特币的风风雨雨。陪大家看多种币种的衰落兴起。请大家放心,我们不会跑路,我们将承担责任,为用户追讨被盗比特币。
Also true .. sucks .. maybe @Rune can tell us how much btc may be lostTo all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.
hardly, cryptohedge was/is performing a valuable service enforcing the peg on exchanges.
word, this sucks, which is why we need to expand our selection of bitAssets to include everything on coinmarketcap100 (because that's what all the crypto traders are trading) before we create feeds for BitSteel, BitCorn, and BitPalladium (where it's difficult to have an accurate 24hr feed). Wouldn't it be easier to make BitDODE because it trades 24/7?
I worry about snapshots.
Hackers use our instant hot from cold filled purse wallet,
I worry about snapshots.... and vested balances
Hackers use our instant hot from cold filled purse wallet
To all those of you have large amounts of BTS on Bter, you get what you deserve. You could have been trading BTS:BitBTC on our own system.i have no bts on bter. but i have to say it is because our client is not usable. Most the people can not install the client or sync.
The would need to give their BTS private keys and find way go migrate the user database including password hashes and 2FA seeds to BM. Sounds complicated.I worry about snapshots.
If they indeed close down, I guess BM and co. can work with them and get the snapshot list. It would be a bit messy, though.
It is not possible. there are people buy and sell BTS. if the system roll back, I can sell the bts twice. Every roll back is large harm, and the system will crash. maybe there should be other way to solve this, though we have not now.Yeah, but imagine what the world would think if we successfully thwarted a blatantly obvious MtGox type heist by voting as a community to roll back a couple transactions on the blockchian (and the transactions that sprouted from those of course) and returned to them to the affected party (BTER).
We would look like superman-coin!
And of course we could explain to Max Keiser, USA Today, Wall Strett Journal, Bloomberg, etc., that this was something that could only easily be done right now because our coin and community is so small (so no future guarantees)
reimburse those affected via donations. Of course it would be much easier right now because hardly anybody is using our blockchain.
What good is our BitShares VOTING capability if we cannot vote to thwart the greatest criminal villain mastermind in BTS history!
We would say that once 1.0 comes out, then it's every man, woman, and centralized exchange for themselves from that point onward or something to that nature.
If we do nothing but take it, then the price of BTS will fall like BTC after MtGox, if we become the first blockchain in history to thwart a crime, then we would gain the "centralized community control margin of safety" that causes Ripple to be such a high market cap that we crave.
BitShares - the first and only safe AND decentralized crypto (Ripple is "safely controlled" but not decentralized).
Safety builds confidence, and investors love confidence and transparency.
"the greatest criminal villain mastermind in BTS history!" << huh? You talk as though you know them.
Nobody has said anything about BTS being stolen.
I agree though that if something large enough like this were to occur.. I agree that a voting rollback would make tremendous headlines and would be a huge deterrent for any wannabe thieves.
Why do you worry about the snapshots? Bter announcement said nothing about anything stolen except BTC...
Is it me or is the Bitshares network down as well? I can't see anything on Client or on Bitsharesblocks.Network in the green here
I can't believe how many people there are supporting rollbacks (even if it's targeted rollbacks to a small set of transactions) in this thread. It completely undermines the blockchain.
No one could trust that their transfers for goods/services would be final.
If we were to have such a policy, how would we decide which balances were the stolen ones? How would an innocent person accepting funds from those balances for legitimate trade of goods/services know that those balances were tainted before accepting them? Or do we just accept that those people (who didn't take an extra risk by trading on a centralized exchange) are going to lose for the benefit of bailing out the unfortunate victims who knowingly took the risk to trade on a centralized exchange?
Also, who is the authority that decides/confirms which balances were stolen, the stakeholders? If so, what quorum is necessary? Even if it is 75%, you risk having the other 25% dump the stake after the hard fork because of such an extreme change in policy, crashing the price. So then maybe a 95% quorum is necessary. But that is a ridiculously high percentage that is unrealistic to ever reach. Especially considering that the people most likely to vote for the hard fork are the people who lost their money (and therefore don't have the funds to vote with).
No rollbacks! The solution is to reduce our dependence on centralized exchanges.
Perhaps that then is not formally a cold wallet hack. :-\
Where is there an unhackable decentralised exchange when you need one?
I can't believe how many people there are supporting rollbacks (even if it's targeted rollbacks to a small set of transactions) in this thread. It completely undermines the blockchain.
Holy shit, really bter? Your cold wallet?
Thank god its not BTS. "Withdrawals of the unaffected coins will be arranged later".
If they dont get it back they are insolvent. If they pay the 720 bounty and manage to get it back somehow they are probably solvent, like after the NXT hack, but I dont trust them anymore.
"Hackers made use of the time we were restocking our hot wallet from cold wallet. They stole all the BTC from the Bter's cold wallet."
I can't believe how many people there are supporting rollbacks (even if it's targeted rollbacks to a small set of transactions) in this thread. It completely undermines the blockchain.
Its not BTS, its their BTC. We should all be okay.
I can't believe how many people there are supporting rollbacks (even if it's targeted rollbacks to a small set of transactions) in this thread. It completely undermines the blockchain.
Its not BTS, its their BTC. We should all be okay.
Good, let's hope so. But we should still be vigilant. Eventually it will happen to us as long as we keep using centralized exchanges.
Light wallets with exchange functionality can't come soon enough. And then we also need decentralized-ish (where counterparty risk is only a subset of the delegates) BTC gateways/bridges.
Where did you get that?
No rollbacks! The solution is to reduce our dependence on centralized exchanges.
Cant ppl blacklist the address to track them?
I think they must have imported pvt key of cold wallet into hot wallet and then xfer some to their exchange.. How else would they xfer from a cold wallet unless it was a node that went online just for an xfer
Cant ppl blacklist the address to track them?
I think they must have imported pvt key of cold wallet into hot wallet and then xfer some to their exchange.. How else would they xfer from a cold wallet unless it was a node that went online just for an xfer
Blacklists won't help if thieves can launder and wash to bluff the trace.
If the hacker is smart they would buy bitbtc or bts on the decentralized exchange to avoid being tracked... So this might be bullish for us shortterm and long.. If they use a central exchange they risk being caughtI like your optimism
If the hacker is smart they would buy bitbtc or bts on the decentralized exchange to avoid being tracked... So this might be bullish for us shortterm and long.. If they use a central exchange they risk being caught
If the hacker is smart they would buy bitbtc or bts on the decentralized exchange to avoid being tracked... So this might be bullish for us shortterm and long.. If they use a central exchange they risk being caught
According to reddit the hacker already washed it. They prob have no idea what bts gateways are and have so many btc they can't funnel through our network
Why do they hold 7K BTC in only one cold wallet? Why not have max 1K BTC in one cold wallet. I don't understand. Am i missing something ?
Public Note: Good afternoon! Your help is necessary. My wife has a problem with health, treatment is necessary (we expect a baby). If you have some unnecessary btc or satosh, please, help, we will rejoice any help.https://blockchain.info/tx/8b3a5448471947ce1ff890a9f250db85ef56a7431b20b0f3e41e3600b1dd8014
Where did you get that?
If you read my post above you'll see there was some glitch that incorrectly credited me with BTS & BitUSD on Fri that I noticed on Sat. I doubt I was the only one and I imagine the strange dump of BTS on Bter on Fri was probably related to that glitch/hack.
Only 170 BTC got washed, the other 7000 is still sitting in 7 separate accounts.
That's not the only strange thing, this morning there was a deposit into to cold wallet with this note:QuotePublic Note: Good afternoon! Your help is necessary. My wife has a problem with health, treatment is necessary (we expect a baby). If you have some unnecessary btc or satosh, please, help, we will rejoice any help.https://blockchain.info/tx/8b3a5448471947ce1ff890a9f250db85ef56a7431b20b0f3e41e3600b1dd8014
*paranoia alert*It seems to me that the hacker sold any free BTS they got and ran off with the BTC. The dump was like 3 million BTS, followed by a few more 200k dumps. At most probably 5M BTS. Bter probably can cover that, or at least fulfill 95%.Where did you get that?
If you read my post above you'll see there was some glitch that incorrectly credited me with BTS & BitUSD on Fri that I noticed on Sat. I doubt I was the only one and I imagine the strange dump of BTS on Bter on Fri was probably related to that glitch/hack.
Unless there is a ~50M BTS tranfer on our blockchain yesterday, the BTS should be fine, or alternately almost all of it fine.
Can anyone see a transaction like that?
Where did you get that?
If you read my post above you'll see there was some glitch that incorrectly credited me with BTS & BitUSD on Fri that I noticed on Sat. I doubt I was the only one and I imagine the strange dump of BTS on Bter on Fri was probably related to that glitch/hack.
It seems to me that the hacker sold any free BTS they got and ran off with the BTC. The dump was like 3 million BTS, followed by a few more 200k dumps. At most probably 5M BTS. Bter probably can cover that, or at least fulfill 95%.
Unless there is a ~50M BTS tranfer on our blockchain yesterday, the BTS should be fine, or alternately almost all of it fine.
Can anyone see a transaction like that?
Where did you get that?
If you read my post above you'll see there was some glitch that incorrectly credited me with BTS & BitUSD on Fri that I noticed on Sat. I doubt I was the only one and I imagine the strange dump of BTS on Bter on Fri was probably related to that glitch/hack.
It seems to me that the hacker sold any free BTS they got and ran off with the BTC. The dump was like 3 million BTS, followed by a few more 200k dumps. At most probably 5M BTS. Bter probably can cover that, or at least fulfill 95%.
Unless there is a ~50M BTS tranfer on our blockchain yesterday, the BTS should be fine, or alternately almost all of it fine.
Can anyone see a transaction like that?
How do you know the hacker got any BTS? sounds like the hacker was just targeting BTC, and waiting for BTER to make a transfer from cold wallet, and as soon as BTER did the transfer, the hacker was able to empty their cold wallet and run off. Doesn't seem the hacker got any BTS
Where did you get that?
If you read my post above you'll see there was some glitch that incorrectly credited me with BTS & BitUSD on Fri that I noticed on Sat. I doubt I was the only one and I imagine the strange dump of BTS on Bter on Fri was probably related to that glitch/hack.
It seems to me that the hacker sold any free BTS they got and ran off with the BTC. The dump was like 3 million BTS, followed by a few more 200k dumps. At most probably 5M BTS. Bter probably can cover that, or at least fulfill 95%.
Unless there is a ~50M BTS tranfer on our blockchain yesterday, the BTS should be fine, or alternately almost all of it fine.
Can anyone see a transaction like that?
How do you know the hacker got any BTS? sounds like the hacker was just targeting BTC, and waiting for BTER to make a transfer from cold wallet, and as soon as BTER did the transfer, the hacker was able to empty their cold wallet and run off. Doesn't seem the hacker got any BTS
I agree. Empirical said they stole BTS. I dont think they did, or at most stole only a small amount.
I then saw a very large BitUSD balance (medium 4 figures) that I knew wasn't mine, tested to see with a small amount whether it was withdrawable, sent that amount back to Bter.How about sending back the 7k BTC balance too ;)?
btw, why do you have a new account?
btw, why do you have a new account?
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11871.msg185151#msg185151
My favourite number is 888 so I ended Empirical1.1 after 888 posts.
btw, why do you have a new account?
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11871.msg185151#msg185151
My favourite number is 888 so I ended Empirical1.1 after 888 posts.
but your first one only has 885?! https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2288 must be the cause of the hack!
:p
you would expect that only a few select people would have access to the cold wallet given that production staff (actually most likely a script) can top-up by broadcasting pre-generated and pre-signed transactions.
This leaves you exposed to impersonnification as we will now assume that Empirical1.X has to be you.
btw, why do you have a new account?
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11871.msg185151#msg185151
My favourite number is 888 so I ended Empirical1.1 after 888 posts.
The only two rational explanations I can see are that the transaction of 7k+ was generated and signed offline, or the private key of the cold wallet was leaked by the cold wallet operator and the balance withdrawn.The 7k+ transaction wasn't a pre-generated and pre-sigend transaction: it's using the 5BTC return output of the last 100 BTC top up transaction as input, so it was generated and signed after the last 100 BTC transaction was broadcast.
Welcome to the wild west.
Yes, he had 888 posts on his account when he ended it ( I also had exactly 2000 on tonyk.... now less).
btw, why do you have a new account?
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11871.msg185151#msg185151
My favourite number is 888 so I ended Empirical1.1 after 888 posts.
but your first one only has 885?! https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2288 must be the cause of the hack!
:p
Yeah I noticed that :( I think I've lost the password for that one otherwise I'd actually get it back up to 888. Some months ago when they updated the forum/something some people lost a few posts but it was left on 888 originally.
Cryptohedge held 27 BTC at the time of the hack. Any guesses to how big the haircut will be?
I really hope they didn't steal BTS or bitassets. Even if they didn't this is still a huge blow. Bter likely won't continue operations and if they did there'd be no liquidity. So now we have to find new markets for our bitassets - a real shame since bitgold had just got listed and bitUSD had just started picking up in volume.
jajaja
where are the bosses. anyone talk oficially to bter from BitShares?
Due to BTER being hacked, #ShapeShift will not be able to do NBT, BTS or BitUSD transactions at this time. Stay tuned for updates.
If it is claimed that a 'cold wallet' has been 'hacked' then one or more of the following is true:
- It was NOT a cold wallet
- It was NOT hacked
- The 'hack' involved someone having access to 'keys' by non-internet based means
- Someone was so incredibly lucky that they managed to guess the private keys (not realistically feasible)
edit: this wasn't in response to your post @Ander.
Shapeshift just twitted
https://twitter.com/ShapeShift_io/status/567047121208360960QuoteDue to BTER being hacked, #ShapeShift will not be able to do NBT, BTS or BitUSD transactions at this time. Stay tuned for updates.
There is now only 1 central exchange (that has more than $2000/day volume) to buy and sell BitShares. This seems like a very precarious position.
On the same note, there's a > 300 comment thread about bter leading /r/bitcoin. A couple mentions of decentralized exchanges, and no mention of Bitshares. We are invisible to the outside world.
poloniex is still not proceeding any bts tx.where can l purchase Bitshares now?
I've seen several posts stating that bitcoins were stolen and not bitshares and therefore customers with BTS balances at Bter should be ok, but I wonder if that's true. Assuming Bter isn't able to recover from this and goes into bankruptcy, isn't it likely that all of its deposits would be pooled and divided among all account holders/creditors rather than having just the customers with BTC balances bear the whole loss?
There is now only 1 central exchange (that has more than $2000/day volume) to buy and sell BitShares. This seems like a very precarious position.
On the same note, there's a > 300 comment thread about bter leading /r/bitcoin. A couple mentions of decentralized exchanges, and no mention of Bitshares. We are invisible to the outside world.
poloniex is still not proceeding any bts tx.where can l purchase Bitshares now?
Transfer your btc to bitbtc via
https://metaexchange.info/
and convert your bitbtc to bts...
alternative solution btc38 but no one knows when they will get hacked as well..
thanks for mentioning us!
We will add more Assets in the near future and will increase the transferable amount. So we are trying to reduce the 3rd pary risk for all of you.
People too often state that things should be done by someone .. wake up guys .. bitshares is decentralized .. so do it yourself .. once s.o. started plenty of people will join ..
People too often state that things should be done by someone .. wake up guys .. bitshares is decentralized .. so do it yourself .. once s.o. started plenty of people will join ..
If i remember correctly someone on bitcointalk said we were missing an announcement thread. I think this comes in great timing. If it wasn't done already, it should be done to take maximum advantage of this situation.
Sad to see another centralized exchange get into trouble. This hurts us all.
But this is also exactly what the BitShares Decentralized Exchange was designed to solve. Even if you're not ready to invest in BitShares, you can still use its services to control your own destiny.You run the exchange and control all your own keys!
You always keep your assets in your own wallet and you can then trade between them without anything leaving your wallet, accomplishing the same thing you do on centralized exchanges. Instead of continuous 24x7 exposure of your assets to hackers on a centralized exchange, this now only happens for the few minutes you spend moving through a gateway or bridge (https://bitshares.org/resources/gateways) when you want to get your hands on the actual asset.
Most of the time, you don't really want the asset, you want the exposure to that asset's price characteristics. So you hold market pegged bitAssets that track the value of other commodities and currencies. This lets you hop around between bitUSD, bitGold, bitCNY, bitSilver, bitEUR, bitBTC and BTS without leaving your BitShares wallet. This set will grow, but that's a pretty good mix for trading against big movements in crypto vs. fiat.(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dNl6GA7j_Jk/VMt1YBOx4WI/AAAAAAAADUE/ZCH3dWGU0wI/s1600/bitassets.png)And it stays in your own wallet where moths and rust do not consume and thieves don't break in to steal.
The chances of a hacker timing their hack to the moment you are using a centralized gateway to move in and out of the BitShares Decentralized Exchange is vanishingly small. And you can pick your gateway at the last minute from a growing list of options.
This way, you can quickly move from the BitShares Decentralized Exchange into your favorite leading coin just in time to spend it.
And earn a bit of interest in the mean time.
Details here (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2vz1zq/its_now_officialbtercom_was_hackedlost_7170_btc/comjbit) on reddit.
A central BitShares thread on Bitcointalk would be cool, like Counterparty has one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.0If i remember correctly someone on bitcointalk said we were missing an announcement thread. I think this comes in great timing. If it wasn't done already, it should be done to take maximum advantage of this situation.
Well, I did just post this over on the puppies thread.
I suppose someone could use this as the start of an announcement.
What else should it say?Sad to see another centralized exchange get into trouble. This hurts us all.
But this is also exactly what the BitShares Decentralized Exchange was designed to solve. Even if you're not ready to invest in BitShares, you can still use its services to control your own destiny.You run the exchange and control all your own keys!
You always keep your assets in your own wallet and you can then trade between them without anything leaving your wallet, accomplishing the same thing you do on centralized exchanges. Instead of continuous 24x7 exposure of your assets to hackers on a centralized exchange, this now only happens for the few minutes you spend moving through a gateway or bridge when you want to get your hands on the actual asset.
Most of the time, you don't really want the asset, you want the exposure to that asset's price characteristics. So you hold bitAssets in your own wallet and hop around between bitUSD, bitGold, bitCNY, bitSilver, bitEUR, bitBTC and BTS. This set will grow, but that's a pretty good mix for trading against big movements in crypto vs. fiat.(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dNl6GA7j_Jk/VMt1YBOx4WI/AAAAAAAADUE/ZCH3dWGU0wI/s1600/bitassets.png)And it stays in your own wallet where moths and rust do not consume and thieves don't break in to steal.
The chances of a hacker timing their hack to the moment you are using a centralized gateway to move in and out of the BitShares Decentralized Exchange is vanishingly small. And you can pick your gateway at the last minute from a growing list of options.
This way, you can quickly move from the BitShares Decentralized Exchange into your favorite leading coin just in time to spend it.
And earn a bit of interest in the mean time.
If i remember correctly someone on bitcointalk said we were missing an announcement thread. I think this comes in great timing. If it wasn't done already, it should be done to take maximum advantage of this situation.
Well, I did just post this over on the puppies thread.
I suppose someone could use this as the start of an announcement.
What else should it say?Sad to see another centralized exchange get into trouble. This hurts us all.
But this is also exactly what the BitShares Decentralized Exchange was designed to solve. Even if you're not ready to invest in BitShares, you can still use its services to control your own destiny.You run the exchange and control all your own keys!
You always keep your assets in your own wallet and you can then trade between them without anything leaving your wallet, accomplishing the same thing you do on centralized exchanges. Instead of continuous 24x7 exposure of your assets to hackers on a centralized exchange, this now only happens for the few minutes you spend moving through a gateway or bridge when you want to get your hands on the actual asset.
Most of the time, you don't really want the asset, you want the exposure to that asset's price characteristics. So you hold bitAssets in your own wallet and hop around between bitUSD, bitGold, bitCNY, bitSilver, bitEUR, bitBTC and BTS. This set will grow, but that's a pretty good mix for trading against big movements in crypto vs. fiat.(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dNl6GA7j_Jk/VMt1YBOx4WI/AAAAAAAADUE/ZCH3dWGU0wI/s1600/bitassets.png)And it stays in your own wallet where moths and rust do not consume and thieves don't break in to steal.
The chances of a hacker timing their hack to the moment you are using a centralized gateway to move in and out of the BitShares Decentralized Exchange is vanishingly small. And you can pick your gateway at the last minute from a growing list of options.
This way, you can quickly move from the BitShares Decentralized Exchange into your favorite leading coin just in time to spend it.
And earn a bit of interest in the mean time.
If i remember correctly someone on bitcointalk said we were missing an announcement thread. I think this comes in great timing. If it wasn't done already, it should be done to take maximum advantage of this situation.
Well, I did just post this over on the puppies thread.
I suppose someone could use this as the start of an announcement.
What else should it say?Sad to see another centralized exchange get into trouble. This hurts us all.
But this is also exactly what the BitShares Decentralized Exchange was designed to solve. Even if you're not ready to invest in BitShares, you can still use its services to control your own destiny.You run the exchange and control all your own keys!
You always keep your assets in your own wallet and you can then trade between them without anything leaving your wallet, accomplishing the same thing you do on centralized exchanges. Instead of continuous 24x7 exposure of your assets to hackers on a centralized exchange, this now only happens for the few minutes you spend moving through a gateway or bridge (https://bitshares.org/resources/gateways) when you want to get your hands on the actual asset.
Most of the time, you don't really want the asset, you want the exposure to that asset's price characteristics. So you hold bitAssets in your own wallet and hop around between bitUSD, bitGold, bitCNY, bitSilver, bitEUR, bitBTC and BTS. This set will grow, but that's a pretty good mix for trading against big movements in crypto vs. fiat.(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dNl6GA7j_Jk/VMt1YBOx4WI/AAAAAAAADUE/ZCH3dWGU0wI/s1600/bitassets.png)And it stays in your own wallet where moths and rust do not consume and thieves don't break in to steal.
The chances of a hacker timing their hack to the moment you are using a centralized gateway to move in and out of the BitShares Decentralized Exchange is vanishingly small. And you can pick your gateway at the last minute from a growing list of options.
This way, you can quickly move from the BitShares Decentralized Exchange into your favorite leading coin just in time to spend it.
And earn a bit of interest in the mean time.
BitAssets depend on the existence of centralised exchanges for their price feeds. If the market moved away from centralised exchanges to decentralised exchanges for certain assets such as bitcoin, do the corresponding bitAssets become obsolete?A price feed reflects the exchange rates of two assets. All that is required is some market place where such ex. rates are established. That can also be on a decentralized exchange.
BitAssets depend on the existence of centralised exchanges for their price feeds. If the market moved away from centralised exchanges to decentralised exchanges for certain assets such as bitcoin, do the corresponding bitAssets become obsolete?
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?Would take atleast 500 btc and then we can create assets for all alts and hopefully decentralize it and have users come back.. Could be interesting... Wonder if bm would be interested it would be a big splash
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
not so expensive if they are bankrupt... What do they have that would be most valuable to us , maybe just need their licenses/compliance arrangements
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You can just hold the bitAssets you want for as long as you want until you decide to cash out or trade again. Most people, however, don't see it that way. They immediately think that just because bitshares is mentioned, it's propaganda and we're trying to make them invest. They really don't need to. People need to understand they can be safe without ever having to risk investing in bitshares.Ripple has been struggling with the very same perception problem since inception and it seems that it's a hard problem: people keep missing the forest for the tree and keep focalizing on XRP distribution although the Ripple community is putting the stress on *using* Ripple as exchange as opposed to investing in XRP. The Bitcoin community in particular seems to have a very very short attention span and a severe tentency to overreact and refuse to reassess beliefs so changing perception is near impossible.
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
not so expensive if they are bankrupt... What do they have that would be most valuable to us , maybe just need their licenses/compliance arrangements
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7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
Not sure how willing shareholders would be to do such acquisition. Personnaly I would throw a bunch of money in support of the price if this happens as Bitshares would suddenly become a major player in the crypto space and it would get a very positive image for saving the day.
Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
Not sure how willing shareholders would be to do such acquisition. Personnaly I would throw a bunch of money in support of the price if this happens as Bitshares would suddenly become a major player in the crypto space and it would get a very positive image for saving the day.
It won't be a 7170 BTC bailout, that money is gone. What they can expect is some compensation. Maybe they are offered some assets in lieu which entitles them to a portion of the income.
One benefit for us would be the snapshot/vested balance issue.
i have no bts on bter. but i have to say it is because our client is not usable. Most the people can not install the client or sync.
During the latest telephone interview with Bter CEO Han Lin, he said that this 7000+ BTC is all of their BTC cold storage reserve, now they end up with 200 BTC in their other hot wallet atm. Also he commented the hacker has been very professional, so it's hard to trace him and reclaim the lost fund.
Right now they still have no idea what method the hacker used to hack, as a result they still suspend all altcoin wallets because they don't want to risk it.
Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
Not sure how willing shareholders would be to do such acquisition. Personnaly I would throw a bunch of money in support of the price if this happens as Bitshares would suddenly become a major player in the crypto space and it would get a very positive image for saving the day.
It won't be a 7170 BTC bailout, that money is gone. What they can expect is some compensation. Maybe they are offered some assets in lieu which entitles them to a portion of the income.
One benefit for us would be the snapshot/vested balance issue.
A share dilution to support shorting 7170 bitBTC won't even affect the BTS price since the created BTS will be immediately locked in as collateral so it won't inflate the money supply.
Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.
A share dilution to support shorting 7170 bitBTC won't even affect the BTS price since the created BTS will be immediately locked in as collateral so it won't inflate the money supply.
During the latest telephone interview with Bter CEO Han Lin, he said that this 7000+ BTC is all of their BTC cold storage reserve, now they end up with 200 BTC in their other hot wallet atm. Also he commented the hacker has been very professional, so it's hard to trace him and reclaim the lost fund.
Right now they still have no idea what method the hacker used to hack, as a result they still suspend all altcoin wallets because they don't want to risk it.
Do you have the source of the interview?
We can create a new DAC with 1:1 mapping of stake to real shares of the BTER company, which means that one unit of BTER stake entitles to the dividends of one unit of real BTER company shares and to one vote at the board. Thanks to that mapping, you can keep running BTER as a normal company and progressively DACify the management process as the ecosystem and management tools gets more mature. Meanwhile the shareholders can elect delegates to represent the DAC at BTER board.Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.
A share dilution to support shorting 7170 bitBTC won't even affect the BTS price since the created BTS will be immediately locked in as collateral so it won't inflate the money supply.
It will need a 10% inflation at the current prices. the main issue though would be about running it. Will we be getting competent delegates to run it? BitShares is a decentralized movement and running an exchange directly doesn't seem to fit well, especially since we believe that if we are successful we won't need actual centralized exchanges.
How much of licensing they have anyway? CNY is possible through tradebts, and I doubt Bter has any USD licenses.
Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.
Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.
Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.
Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.
+5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?
Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.
Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.
+5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?
Because 2M USD to buy a huge user base is a very good deal.
Because that would be the best marketing and PR movement ever in crypto history.
Bitshares will fail if BTER fails.
Mark my words.
It's not like if Bitshares was visible and widely sought after out there. Time to awake people. If you are not deeply concerned about the implications of BTER's situation for the future of Bitshares a reality check is overdue.
If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?
Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.
Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.
+5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?
Because 2M USD to buy a huge user base is a very good deal.
Because that would be the best marketing and PR movement ever in crypto history.
Bitshares will fail if BTER fails.
Mark my words.
It's not like if Bitshares was visible and widely sought after out there. Time to awake people. If you are not deeply concerned about the implications of BTER's situation for the future of Bitshares a reality check is overdue.
If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?
+5%
Bter has been forthcoming and recovered well from their NXT hacked. Now they are facing their second crisis but yet again they are forthcoming with updates. Bter has a good following of Chinese community. Bter was a big exchange for bts before the hack. If Bter does well, BTS does well too.
Bter has real world licenses that could be used to perform fiat <-> bts and fiat <-> bitUSD/bitCNY ie on/off-ramp. If BTS buy out Bter, it gives a big boost to bter (ie increase confidence in their finances) and a huge marketing buzz to BTS (finally a on/off-ramp!). This solves a big problem for BTS. Win-Win.
Ofcourse this whole BTER mess is a serious blow for BTS.Because it would become completely irrelevant without an on/off-ramp to the real world.Really? Who in their right minds would want to invest in BTER?
BTER is done for, this is their final blow.
Reviving BTER for BTS purposes, is gonna hurt BTS even more.
+5% Yeah... worst idea ever. A decentralized exchange buys a failed centralized exchange because...?
Because 2M USD to buy a huge user base is a very good deal.
Because that would be the best marketing and PR movement ever in crypto history.
Bitshares will fail if BTER fails.
Mark my words.
It's not like if Bitshares was visible and widely sought after out there. Time to awake people. If you are not deeply concerned about the implications of BTER's situation for the future of Bitshares a reality check is overdue.
Ofcourse this whole BTER mess is a serious blow for BTS.
I still think this is a delusional solution, and I really hope, that the community will have the sense to call this off.
Ok we are now short one on/off ramp, a rather large one, but there are more, and more are in the works as we speak.
2 million to buy a huge user base. You still think this will be a huge user base after this?
For marketing and PR we would hit most crypto news sites for sure. But is this the kind of marketing an PR we need? We are sending out an message that a decentralised exchange fully depends on central exchanges to operate.
Seriously the reality check is on your end. We have to take our losses and move on, without BTER. Nobody will care if BTER is run by a DAC, except this community.
If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?
+5%
Bter has been forthcoming and recovered well from their NXT hacked. Now they are facing their second crisis but yet again they are forthcoming with updates. Bter has a good following of Chinese community. Bter was a big exchange for bts before the hack. If Bter does well, BTS does well too.
Bter has real world licenses that could be used to perform fiat <-> bts and fiat <-> bitUSD/bitCNY ie on/off-ramp. If BTS buy out Bter, it gives a big boost to bter (ie increase confidence in their finances) and a huge marketing buzz to BTS (finally a on/off-ramp!). This solves a big problem for BTS. Win-Win.
BTER's USD was all frozen even before the hack, so they weren't a direct USD on-ramp at all. Is the hack supposed to help fix that somehow?
Ok we are now short one on/off ramp, a rather large one, but there are more, and more are in the works as we speak.That on/off ramp is 50% of our customer base. You have just no idea how badly this will hurt the demand for bit assets and BTS. Our market cap will drop by much more than 2M if BTER goes belly up.
2 million to buy a huge user base. You still think this will be a huge user base after this?If BTER is put under decentralized dac-based management and cold wallet access moved to delegate controlled multisign, this will be a first in crypto history and I would be very surprised if the user base doesn't actually become bigger.
For marketing and PR we would hit most crypto news sites for sure. But is this the kind of marketing an PR we need?Yes. 100 times Yes. Bitshares has been a marketing non-event since inception. We direly need to start to exist as something news worthy in the mind of our target customer base. Yes this will cost 20x Brian Page's yearly salary, but this will do 1000x time the effect all at once. It's not even speculation: by owning BTER, you effectively have all the altcoin community as a userbase and they'll keeping hearing about Bitshares every time they login to BTER.
We are sending out an message that a decentralised exchange fully depends on central exchanges to operate.No, we are sending the message that we are a big player capable of acquiring companies, and have an influence in the real world. Being decentralized doesn't mean being completely cut from the real world. That's autism, not decentralization.
Seriously the reality check is on your end.We shall see.
We have to take our losses and move on, without BTER. Nobody will care if BTER is run by a DAC, except this community.Right, none of the thousands of altcoiners who have balances in BTER will appreciate to find out that they haven't lost their balance after all, and none of them will be interested to know that the cold wallets are becoming multisign and management is transparent, and none of the news outlet will relay that. We must definitely live in a very different reality.
BTER's USD was all frozen even before the hack, so they weren't a direct USD on-ramp at all. Is the hack supposed to help fix that somehow?
We would need to do our due diligence if we indeed wanted to buy bter. Questions like why Bter's USD was frozen? Can they unfreeze it? Can their licenses be used for USD, CNY and what other fiats?
But first, we need the see the value proposition and then agree/disagree on moving forward with helping bter.
We may not need to pay 2M for a deal.I agree but for a different reason. We won't end up paying 2M because other actors will be interested in taking a stake in BTER as well. BTER founders themselves certainly won't want to be completely out, and they must have investors, not to mention risk takers in the crypto community at large. What matters is that the IPO itself be done as a Bitshares DAC.
If we could work out a good deal with Bter, perhaps in the region of a few hundred BTCs to entice the thief to return funds.This time the thief won't return the funds. Last time, the money stollen was in NXT and BTER was the only exchange with actual liquidity and had stopped operations, so the hacker had no way of converting his loot to fiat. If you followed what happened, he traded 85% of his NXT stash for a couple hundred BTCs and then stopped. The reason for that is obvious: after giving back 85% of the NXT, BTER was going to resume operations, and NXT would survive, so the hacker would be able to launder his remaining 15% stash later on. This time around, the hacker is holding the most liquid crypto around, and has a wide variety of tools to launder the funds and many outlets to cash out. He has no incentrive to return the funds unless he gets doxxed.
we could get licenses to put up an on/off ramp, bter's user base, its 2-year experiences in exchange running, its good reputation with the Chinese community. We need a good business dev (Gentso1) to start the negotiation though.Exactly. BTER is very valuable and 2M isn't that much money in fact. Coinbase has raised 78M in their last round of fund raising, and you would have a hard time finding an established exchange that doesn't raise funds to the tune of millions.
They only supported USD through a single third party payment processor - EgoPay, and then they killed even that. So basically they used a centralized gateway on-ramp onto their centralized exchange. We already have a decentralized exchange and need an onramp, and they had a centralized exchange and needed an onramp.
The only thing they had that I used was onramp from BTC and other crypto to BTS and bitAssets.
If BTER is put under decentralized dac-based management and cold wallet access moved to delegate controlled multisign, this will be a first in crypto history and I would be very surprised if the user base doesn't actually become bigger.
Yes. 100 times Yes. Bitshares has been a marketing non-event since inception. We direly need to start to exist as something news worthy in the mind of our target customer base. Yes this will cost 20x Brian Page's yearly salary, but this will do 1000x time the effect all at once. It's not even speculation: by owning BTER, you effectively have all the altcoin community as a userbase and they'll keeping hearing about Bitshares every time they login to BTER.
No, we are sending the message that we are a big player capable of acquiring companies, and have an influence in the real world. Being decentralized doesn't mean being completely cut from the real world. That's autism, not decentralization.
We shall see.
Hint: there is a reason why NXT almost considered a rollback last time BTER got hacked and strayed involve until a solution was found.
Right, none of the thousands of altcoiners who have balances in BTER will appreciate to find out that they haven't lost their balance after all, and none of them will be interested to know that the cold wallets are becoming multisign and management is transparent, and none of the news outlet will relay that. We must definitely live in a very different reality.
Acquiring BTER is bold. It's a bet. It's wild. But if we can't get around thinking of doing things like that, Bitshares won't even be a side noted in history books covering the crypto era.
If a seasoned exchange like Bter won't make a qualified on & off ramp in your eyes, which one could?
+5%
Bter has been forthcoming and recovered well from their NXT hacked. Now they are facing their second crisis but yet again they are forthcoming with updates. Bter has a good following of Chinese community. Bter was a big exchange for bts before the hack. If Bter does well, BTS does well too.
Bter has real world licenses that could be used to perform fiat <-> bts and fiat <-> bitUSD/bitCNY ie on/off-ramp. If BTS buy out Bter, it gives a big boost to bter (ie increase confidence in their finances) and a huge marketing buzz to BTS (finally a on/off-ramp!). This solves a big problem for BTS. Win-Win.
Agreed. BTER as on/off-ramp would be epic. Their sevice was always good and reliable.
If we are going to raise millions for something.. it's not going to be to buy out someone else right now.. that money is better spent in the development of our own ecosystem. I use the word 'development' in the largest sense of the word too.. from marketing to coding.
How about betting on your own horse that has a running chance instead of wanting to put your money behind the one with the broken leg?
Love the enthusiasm about the opportunity.. +5% I just think it's misdirected.. our enthusiasm should be getting translated into well targeted messaging and invites to the rest of the world welcoming them to decentralization.
If we are going to raise millions for something.. it's not going to be to buy out someone else right now.. that money is better spent in the development of our own ecosystem. I use the word 'development' in the largest sense of the word too.. from marketing to coding.
How about betting on your own horse that has a running chance instead of wanting to put your money behind the one with the broken leg?
Love the enthusiasm about the opportunity.. +5% I just think it's misdirected.. our enthusiasm should be getting translated into well targeted messaging and invites to the rest of the world welcoming them to decentralization.
+5%
If we are going to raise millions for something.. it's not going to be to buy out someone else right now.. that money is better spent in the development of our own ecosystem. I use the word 'development' in the largest sense of the word too.. from marketing to coding.So you recommand just shrugging off what could be our once in a life time opportunity to make it big, keep doing more of the same, and hope that the world will suddenly awake one morning and realize that we exist?
How about betting on your own horse that has a running chance instead of wanting to put your money behind the one with the broken leg?That analogy is desingenuous. Our horse may be the most pure thouroughbred the world has ever seen but it's running a race no-one cares about with little prospect of ever being noticed. BTER's horse may be a common breed, but it's been winning its share of races so far; it may have twisted its leg right now but it's still a good horse with a massive following running the league-1 races at every season. And now we get a change of buying that horse and make it run our race as well, and get all the attention we deserve. But you don't want because you know it twisted its ankle at last race.
Love the enthusiasm about the opportunity.. +5% I just think it's misdirected.. our enthusiasm should be getting translated into well targeted messaging and invites to the rest of the world welcoming them to decentralization.Messages no one will listen because they just don't care. Bitcoiners have the attention span of a 5-year old. If you don't have special effects, you suck and that's it. Look at Paycoin: a complete pile of bullshit from the start, and they managed to make it big for a while with something as lame and ridiculous as a completly unsubstanciated and unrealistic USD 20 floor claim. How they did that: they just dared, it's as simple as that. I'm not saying that we should take them as example, but it's important to realize that user base, marketing and PR is what makes or breaks a product. If you still think that market leaders are winning because they have the best product, you should ask yourself why Bitshares is still that notably unpopular after it has released the most kickass appliction of game theory since the inception of Bitcoin whereas everyone has heard of Dogecoin and its 5-min copy-pasta Bitcoin clone.
Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
not so expensive if they are bankrupt... What do they have that would be most valuable to us , maybe just need their licenses/compliance arrangements
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Yes, their licenses/compliance records. And their experiences in operating an exchange!
Could our business dev Gentso1 sounds out Bter about a possible deal? If the deal is affordable to bitshares, we should take it up. This solves a big headache - fiat on/off-ramp. I believe a huge marketing buzz would follow.
Doe bter even have a bank partnership? I thought Ego pay was their only fiat option?
If we are going to raise millions for something.. it's not going to be to buy out someone else right now.. that money is better spent in the development of our own ecosystem. I use the word 'development' in the largest sense of the word too.. from marketing to coding.So you recommand just shrugging off what could be our once in a life time opportunity to make it big, keep doing more of the same, and hope that the world will suddenly awake one morning and realize that we exist?How about betting on your own horse that has a running chance instead of wanting to put your money behind the one with the broken leg?That analogy is desingenuous. Our horse may be the most pure thouroughbred the world has ever seen but it's running a race no-one cares about with little prospect of ever being noticed. BTER's horse may be a common breed, but it's been winning its share of races so far; it may have twisted its leg right now but it's still a good horse with a massive following running the league-1 races at every season. And now we get a change of buying that horse and make it run our race as well, and get all the attention we deserve. But you don't want because you know it twisted its ankle at last race.
You are vocal about how BTER is broken but I think that it's not an objetive assessment of reality. BTER's exchange business is the same money making machine it was last week, with a large and loyal user base and well positionned on a large market. They have two problems: a weak security, a 7170 BTC debt. The former can be addressed by running audits, and moving the wallet management to multisig. The second can be addressed by a bail out. Fix the two problems and BTER is back on track like if none of that ever happened. Let's also not forget that for all its technical shortcomings, BTER has been doing much better than us in terms of marketing and they are the ones sending us business, not the other way round.Love the enthusiasm about the opportunity.. +5% I just think it's misdirected.. our enthusiasm should be getting translated into well targeted messaging and invites to the rest of the world welcoming them to decentralization.Messages no one will listen because they just don't care. Bitcoiners have the attention span of a 5-year old. If you don't have special effects, you suck and that's it. Look at Paycoin: a complete pile of bullshit from the start, and they managed to make it big for a while with something as lame and ridiculous as a completly unsubstanciated and unrealistic USD 20 floor claim. How they did that: they just dared, it's as simple as that. I'm not saying that we should take them as example, but it's important to realize that user base, marketing and PR is what makes or breaks a product. If you still think that market leaders are winning because they have the best product, you should ask yourself why Bitshares is still that notably unpopular after it has released the most kickass appliction of game theory since the inception of Bitcoin whereas everyone has heard of Dogecoin and its 5-min copy-pasta Bitcoin clone.
marketing and PR is what makes or breaks a product.
you really can't think of something better to spend money onLet me think..
that we would have the bandwidth to run an entire exchangeBTER has the bandwidth to run itself. We are not talking about dismantling BTER but recapitalizing it, migrating it to a DAC paradigm so that we can control board decisions and fund movements, and running it at arms length thereafter.
And how exactly did you plan to raise $2m again?The same way every other DAC is raising similar figures: by running a crowd sale. Interested parties can invest directly. Other DACs can also take a stake by voting a dilution, use the proceeds to purchase BTER stake and airdrop it on their own shareholders. BTER has hands on experience of doing snapshoting and airdrops so they could even manage that for us. I don't think we will need to collect 2M. BTER founders and investors will probably want to retain some stake and other risk takers from the crypto community will probably invest as well. Given how NXT got involved last time BTER got hacked, I they probably want to participate to the crowdsale as well. Other cryptos could also make a deal with BTER to be listed in exchange of their participation.
you really can't think of something better to spend money onLet me think..
No, I don't see anything more important than having a customer base.
We have a product and spent more than enough time and resources building it and trying to market it to no avail. It's about time to stop chasing our tail and realize that we need to buy a customer base.
Buying a customer base / business goodwill is something normal in business when you have a product and marketing isn't your strong point or something you want to waste time and resource with. Ask your doctor, your dentist, your notary, your lawyer... I think by now we can say without hesitation that marketing isn't our strong point. With the rise of other 2nd gen crypto, it's obvious that time is of the essence. We are typically in the situation where buying our customer base would be a wise move.that we would have the bandwidth to run an entire exchangeBTER has the bandwidth to run itself. We are not talking about dismantling BTER but recapitalizing it, migrating it to a DAC paradigm so that we can control board decisions and fund movements, and running it at arms length thereafter.And how exactly did you plan to raise $2m again?The same way every other DAC is raising similar figures: by running a crowd sale. Interested parties can invest directly. Other DACs can also take a stake by voting a dilution, use the proceeds to purchase BTER stake and airdrop it on their own shareholders. BTER has hands on experience of doing snapshoting and airdrops so they could even manage that for us. I don't think we will need to collect 2M. BTER founders and investors will probably want to retain some stake and other risk takers from the crypto community will probably invest as well. Given how NXT got involved last time BTER got hacked, I they probably want to participate to the crowdsale as well. Other cryptos could also make a deal with BTER to be listed in exchange of their participation.
So long as BTER survives, is restructured as a Bitshares DAC and we as a community own a sufficient stake to vote a few delegates at a board seat and influence its future evolution, it's a winning move for us. We don't even need to start with a control stake: since BTER shares will be exchange traded we can decide later to bid for more stake individually or as a community. It could be as low as 1M USD or even lower depending on how much they need to stay in business and absorb the loss.
Again it's not only a huge opportunity to get a large user base and save our main gateway but also a unique chance to showcase our technology, show to the world how DACs are the future of business and establish Bishares as the go-to launchpad for future entrepreneurs.
you really can't think of something better to spend money onLet me think..
No, I don't see anything more important than having a customer base.
We have a product and spent more than enough time and resources building it and trying to market it to no avail. It's about time to stop chasing our tail and realize that we need to buy a customer base.
Buying a customer base / business goodwill is something normal in business when you have a product and marketing isn't your strong point or something you want to waste time and resource with. Ask your doctor, your dentist, your notary, your lawyer... I think by now we can say without hesitation that marketing isn't our strong point. With the rise of other 2nd gen crypto, it's obvious that time is of the essence. We are typically in the situation where buying our customer base would be a wise move.that we would have the bandwidth to run an entire exchangeBTER has the bandwidth to run itself. We are not talking about dismantling BTER but recapitalizing it, migrating it to a DAC paradigm so that we can control board decisions and fund movements, and running it at arms length thereafter.And how exactly did you plan to raise $2m again?The same way every other DAC is raising similar figures: by running a crowd sale. Interested parties can invest directly. Other DACs can also take a stake by voting a dilution, use the proceeds to purchase BTER stake and airdrop it on their own shareholders. BTER has hands on experience of doing snapshoting and airdrops so they could even manage that for us. I don't think we will need to collect 2M. BTER founders and investors will probably want to retain some stake and other risk takers from the crypto community will probably invest as well. Given how NXT got involved last time BTER got hacked, I they probably want to participate to the crowdsale as well. Other cryptos could also make a deal with BTER to be listed in exchange of their participation.
So long as BTER survives, is restructured as a Bitshares DAC and we as a community own a sufficient stake to vote a few delegates at a board seat and influence its future evolution, it's a winning move for us. We don't even need to start with a control stake: since BTER shares will be exchange traded we can decide later to bid for more stake individually or as a community. It could be as low as 1M USD or even lower depending on how much they need to stay in business and absorb the loss.
Again it's not only a huge opportunity to get a large user base and save our main gateway but also a unique chance to showcase our technology, show to the world how DACs are the future of business and establish Bishares as the go-to launchpad for future entrepreneurs.
1. you don't buy the whole user base cause after what happened they have loose trust to them so you don't known what % will come back, except for withdrawing their funds.This is a risk point, but it can be greatly mitigated with the proper communication strategy. We must email every users, put a disclaimer at first relogin and make sure there is ample news coverage about the fact BTER has been restructured and is now operating under a new paradigm whereby all important decisions are being peer-reviewed and approved by delegates elected by shareholders, and cold wallets funds are held in escrow under control of a trustless decentralized network. Users who understand that it has become technically impossible to steel the cold wallet funds or steer the company out of the right path will stay and spead the word. There will be some departures, but most customers will probably come back once the dust settles.
2. What if tomorrow they give you enough prove that it was an inside job? Will you continue to want to buy them out?I doubt that the theft was done by the founders or at least not in a concerted manner for one simple reason: the BTER brand and business is worth more than the 7170 BTC that were stolen. If it's an insider job, it's more likely the deed of an isolated person, either a single founder with significantly less than 7170 BTC worth of BTER shares, or someone from the staff. That makes a big difference because in one case the company is corrupt, while in the other case the company is honest but has a black sheep in its ranks.
3.After you buy them, how can you be sure that you get not hacked again ?See point one. The new BTER will be using multisig coldstorage requiring signatures from delegates of the BTER DAC as well as at least one signature from a BTER staff. With that setup, the delegates would need to collude with the operational staff to steal the funds and the identity of the culprits would be know at the time they broadcast the transaction. In other words, it will be virtually impossible to steal the funds and very possible to identify and prosecute the guilty parties should that very unlikely case arise.
$2M is a lot of money to pay for a bunch of pissed off customers.2M may sounds like a large number, but without putting it in context perception of size is quite arbitrary.
Also, I fail to see how you can restructure BTER as a DAC without it turning into what bitshares already is, i.e. decentralised exchange?Whether a company is a DAC or not is more about the company structure itself than about what it does as economic activity. If ownership, power structure, decision making and cash flows management are decentralized, you already have a DAC even if what it does as economic activity is highly centralized.
2M may sounds like a large number, but without putting it in context perception of size is quite arbitrary.
Bitshares is a network with a 20M market cap down from a 80M market cap at its peak.
Whether a company is a DAC or not is more about the company structure itself than about what it does as economic activity. If ownership, power structure, decision making and cash flows management are decentralized, you already have a DAC even if what it does as economic activity is highly centralized.
We have a product and spent more than enough time and resources building it and trying to market it to no avail.
I can't believe abuyoutbailout is even being discussed. Bter has proven their incompetency twice now. First with the stolen nxt and now with stolen btc. Until proven otherwise, we shall assume that what they have done is criminal. They were entrusted with other people's money and now it has disappeared. For all we know, the owner of the exchange could have stolen the money. If you want to socialize losses, use fiat.
This entire crypto bear market has coincided with many exchange failures, which is a good thing. Slowly but surely, all weak links in the system are being disposed of. We have precedent for this. During the great depression in the US, over 9000 banks failed and most markets crashed. Bailouts and debasement of the USD did not occur on a large scale. What resulted over the next several decades was one of the strongest economies the world had ever seen (1940-2000), and this was on the back of a government issued currency and centralized, government controlled points of exchange. The key ingredient then was that weak links such as poorly run banks were allowed to fail, instead of bailed out. Fast forward to today. We have a legacy economy fraught with bailouts and currency debasement which has resulted in a an unstoppable cancer that has spread so far and wide that it cannot be cured. At the same time, we have an emerging crypo economy in the depths of a crypto depression. This depression is necessary to weed out all weak links, such as incompetent and criminal exchanges and ponzi schemes. I believe once this process is finished, we will see the strongest economy the world has ever seen because for the first time in history, we have the tools to solve many problems that were previously unsolvable (decentralized money, decentralized exchange, ect, ect, ect). The timing is impeccable. As the fiat system is beginning to crumble (Greek and Eurozone crisis, fiat currency volatility picking up), the crypto economy is getting stronger and stronger by the day. We may soon see an unprecedented shift in global wealth... and if you blink you may miss it. The next decade should be very interesting and I believe we are on the right side of it.
Let bter fail. It would be counterproductive to even attempt to bail them out. Trading needs to migrate to decentralized exchanges. It may be painful now, but the crypto economy will emerge much more powerful because of it over the long term.
I can't believe abuyoutbailout is even being discussed. Bter has proven their incompetency twice now. First with the stolen nxt and now with stolen btc. Until proven otherwise, we shall assume that what they have done is criminal. They were entrusted with other people's money and now it has disappeared. For all we know, the owner of the exchange could have stolen the money. If you want to socialize losses, use fiat.
This entire crypto bear market has coincided with many exchange failures, which is a good thing. Slowly but surely, all weak links in the system are being disposed of. We have precedent for this. During the great depression in the US, over 9000 banks failed and most markets crashed. Bailouts and debasement of the USD did not occur on a large scale. What resulted over the next several decades was one of the strongest economies the world had ever seen (1940-2000), and this was on the back of a government issued currency and centralized, government controlled points of exchange. The key ingredient then was that weak links such as poorly run banks were allowed to fail, instead of bailed out. Fast forward to today. We have a legacy economy fraught with bailouts and currency debasement which has resulted in a an unstoppable cancer that has spread so far and wide that it cannot be cured. At the same time, we have an emerging crypo economy in the depths of a crypto depression. This depression is necessary to weed out all weak links, such as incompetent and criminal exchanges and ponzi schemes. I believe once this process is finished, we will see the strongest economy the world has ever seen because for the first time in history, we have the tools to solve many problems that were previously unsolvable (decentralized money, decentralized exchange, ect, ect, ect). The timing is impeccable. As the fiat system is beginning to crumble (Greek and Eurozone crisis, fiat currency volatility picking up), the crypto economy is getting stronger and stronger by the day. We may soon see an unprecedented shift in global wealth... and if you blink you may miss it. The next decade should be very interesting and I believe we are on the right side of it.
Let bter fail. It would be counterproductive to even attempt to bail them out. Trading needs to migrate to decentralized exchanges. It may be painful now, but the crypto economy will emerge much more powerful because of it over the long term.
+5%
Let bter fail. It would be counterproductive to even attempt to bail them out. Trading needs to migrate to decentralized exchanges. It may be painful now, but the crypto economy will emerge much more powerful because of it over the long term.You are right, we should let BTER fail and cripple BitShares so that other gen 2 cryptos can prevail. Survival of the fitest for the sake of mankind, nevermind your personal investments.
Let bter fail. It would be counterproductive to even attempt to bail them out. Trading needs to migrate to decentralized exchanges. It may be painful now, but the crypto economy will emerge much more powerful because of it over the long term.You are right, we should let BTER fail and cripple BitShares so that other gen 2 cryptos can prevail. Survival of the fitest for the sake of mankind, nevermind your personal investments.
Interesting how people will acclaim ground-sounding idealism without realizing it doesn't do anything to address practical issues.
To people who rail or reject the idea of a bailout but only provide general libertarian rethoric as a counter argument, will you please stop blowing hot air and propose an action plan to address the very real and practical fact that Bitshares is going to lose its main gateway and fall behind in a major way?
The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.
The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.
They have several updates on weibo 2hrs ago.
Seems like they're gonna allow withdrawals for altcoins after Chinese Newyear, they just posted this on their Weibo (Google translated):
最近让用户担心了,我们将在春节后首先安排人民币以及美元的提现工作,届时用户可以登录验证后提取账户中的余额。其他虚拟币的提现工作将在确保数字钱包安全的情况下陆续开通。首批开通提现的虚拟币将包括NXT,XCP,XTC等。
"Recently allows users worry, we will first arrange withdrawals work renminbi and the dollar after the Spring Festival, then the user can log on after the extraction verify account balances. Withdraw the work of other virtual currency will be opened in ensuring the safety of the digital wallet. The first opening of a virtual currency withdrawals will include NXT, XCP, XTC, etc."
The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.
They have several updates on weibo 2hrs ago.
I didn't see any updates worth anything for people interested in this though.
As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do. To be honest, to Klosure I say you reach out to BTER and see what they think about the idea. After this, I personally have no funds available for actually helping to buy them out, but some people might find it a very valuable idea. Heck we might even see people from other cryptocurrency communities download the BTS wallet just to participate in the crowdsale!
If it means getting BTER recapitalized enough to continue business long enough to break even, then maybe it is worth it. Not that it matters though!. If people don't want to invest, they won't invest! If they do want to take that risk, then they will. This thread is now becoming a bit of a sideshow imho...so this is my last post on it and I hope we will all consider spending out time doing something more productive.
From bitcointalk:QuoteSeems like they're gonna allow withdrawals for altcoins after Chinese Newyear, they just posted this on their Weibo (Google translated):
最近让用户担心了,我们将在春节后首先安排人民币以及美元的提现工作,届时用户可以登录验证后提取账户中的余额。其他虚拟币的提现工作将在确保数字钱包安全的情况下陆续开通。首批开通提现的虚拟币将包括NXT,XCP,XTC等。
"Recently allows users worry, we will first arrange withdrawals work renminbi and the dollar after the Spring Festival, then the user can log on after the extraction verify account balances. Withdraw the work of other virtual currency will be opened in ensuring the safety of the digital wallet. The first opening of a virtual currency withdrawals will include NXT, XCP, XTC, etc."
CNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.
We are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com
The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.
They have several updates on weibo 2hrs ago.
I didn't see any updates worth anything for people interested in this though.
As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do. To be honest, to Klosure I say you reach out to BTER and see what they think about the idea. After this, I personally have no funds available for actually helping to buy them out, but some people might find it a very valuable idea. Heck we might even see people from other cryptocurrency communities download the BTS wallet just to participate in the crowdsale!
If it means getting BTER recapitalized enough to continue business long enough to break even, then maybe it is worth it. Not that it matters though!. If people don't want to invest, they won't invest! If they do want to take that risk, then they will. This thread is now becoming a bit of a sideshow imho...so this is my last post on it and I hope we will all consider spending out time doing something more productive.
:P crowd fund to help them get on with their feet and to lose another 7K BTC again ? I don't know ....
The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.
They have several updates on weibo 2hrs ago.
I didn't see any updates worth anything for people interested in this though.
As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do. To be honest, to Klosure I say you reach out to BTER and see what they think about the idea. After this, I personally have no funds available for actually helping to buy them out, but some people might find it a very valuable idea. Heck we might even see people from other cryptocurrency communities download the BTS wallet just to participate in the crowdsale!
If it means getting BTER recapitalized enough to continue business long enough to break even, then maybe it is worth it. Not that it matters though!. If people don't want to invest, they won't invest! If they do want to take that risk, then they will. This thread is now becoming a bit of a sideshow imho...so this is my last post on it and I hope we will all consider spending out time doing something more productive.
:P crowd fund to help them get on with their feet and to lose another 7K BTC again ? I don't know ....
I didn't ask you to pay for it. I simply stated that there are people who seem interested, so they should consider trying it. :)
As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do.
Updates from @btercom:QuoteCNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.QuoteWe are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com
As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do.
My first thought was "bailout delegate" when I saw the title of the thread "community members discuss buyout", so that put me on edge. I don't care what others do. If they want to crowdfund a bailout, so be it. I won't participate.
As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do.
My first thought was "bailout delegate" when I saw the title of the thread "community members discuss buyout", so that put me on edge. I don't care what others do. If they want to crowdfund a bailout, so be it. I won't participate.
I think what Klosure has meant by this entire thing is that we wouldn't really be bailing out BTER. We would be essentially buying a userbase who is scared and concerned that BTER has lost all their funds (again). This would be an opportunity to come in, buyout the distressed business on the cheap, bailing out the people who are holding funds there (thus buying a loyal user-base). We could easily turn it into a Gateway at this point, slightly change some of the incentive structures to favor trading with BTS/bitAsset pairings.
I am not sure if you guys have paid much attention, but it seems like poloniex is highly leveraged into NXT and it is a big bonus for all their projects because it almost guarantees instant liquidity. A coordinated buyout of BTER could be a strategically invaluable move. However, for me to have any part in it, I personally would expect so much that the leadership likely prefer to watch it crash and burn than take the deal...because I would want it to turn almost exclusively into a BitShares gateway to the degree that Poloniex is for NXT.
I'd also want a token issued that is backed by some % of trading fees, that is issued to people who successfully hack BTER as a bounty that can then be redeemed for something like bitUSD.
I personally do not think BTER is going to make it through this time though.
According bytemasters blog, being a gateway is safer being a exchange, and profitable meantime. If our community don't do something, i.e. 1. community members set up a gateway of our own; 2. commubity members lobby other ppl to set up one, then bytemaster'blog post will be meaningless, perhaps to outsiders like a JOKE.
According bytemasters blog, being a gateway is safer being a exchange, and profitable meantime. If our community don't do something, i.e. 1. community members set up a gateway of our own; 2. commubity members lobby other ppl to set up one, then bytemaster'blog post will be meaningless, perhaps to outsiders like a JOKE.Creating a new BTS-centric gateway won't have at all the same effect as steering progressively an existing generalist exchange to a more BTS and BitAsset centric paradigm. A new gateway will only attract existing BitShares users and do nothing to increase our userbase and demand. Fuzzy's exemple of Poloniex for NXT is spot on but it would be even better with a Bitshares owned BTER because the user base is huge and BitShares allows to withdraw and deposit fiat as BitAssets. Basically BitAssets could become the preferred method of depositing and withdrawing cash to/from BTER in the long run and could even become a widespread inter-exchange settlement network if other exchanges follow suit.
Updates from @btercom:Seems that the BTER funders are wiling to litterally give away the business and all assets including domain name to the bidder who will give the best indemnisation to victims of the hack. It means that we should be able to do a partial bailout and still get to take over the BTER brand.QuoteCNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.QuoteWe are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com
Updates from @btercom:Seems that the BTER funders are wiling to litterally give away the business and all assets including domain name to the bidder who will give the best indemnisation to victims of the hack. It means that we should be able to do a partial bailout and still get to take over the BTER brand.QuoteCNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.QuoteWe are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com
I have a new proposal. I'll develop more on that later, but here is the outline:
We create a bailout fund that will be funded by N delegates. Each time the fund receives delegate payments, it bugs bitBTC and airdrops it to BTER users who registered on Bitshares prorata of their lost BTC holding. This is litterally a vested bail out fund but the vesting schedule is dynamic and adjust with the BTS exchange rate.
No delegates.
Updates from @btercom:Seems that the BTER funders are wiling to litterally give away the business and all assets including domain name to the bidder who will give the best indemnisation to victims of the hack. It means that we should be able to do a partial bailout and still get to take over the BTER brand.QuoteCNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.QuoteWe are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com
I have a new proposal. I'll develop more on that later, but here is the outline:
We create a bailout fund that will be funded by N delegates. Each time the fund receives delegate payments, it bugs bitBTC and airdrops it to BTER users who registered on Bitshares prorata of their lost BTC holding. This is litterally a vested bail out fund but the vesting schedule is dynamic and adjust with the BTS exchange rate.
No delegates.
I do not support delegates because this forces people who are obviously against this idea to pay for something they hate. I do not want to trade a user base over at BTER (who might simply bail and go to a competitor after they regain access to their funds) for an already loyal COMMUNITY here. This is where you have lost me.
Let people buy in if they want to. Get contact with BTER, I'll reach out and help you, but you lose my support as soon as you try to get delegates voted in for this.
I think to reach a full consensus is impossible, and you are just a one among many. So stop using this ruling tongue.
I think to reach a full consensus is impossible, and you are just a one among many. So stop using this ruling tongue.
I don't understand what you mean. What ruling tongue?
I'm confused.
If they are selling it off, what happens to the snapshots and vested balances? I hope BM or someone is in communication with them.
If they are selling it off, what happens to the snapshots and vested balances? I hope BM or someone is in communication with them.
Just let everyone to feel comfortable to discuss within this community. We lost many decent people already due to this very reason.I honestly have no clue why anyone would not feel comfortable discussing anything in this community. We are probably one of the most open communities with respect to this. As for me--I never told anyone not to talk. Please never take my statements that way.
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.
Wrong. You would be rich if you had bought bitcoin when the banks were bailed out. You would not have even tripled your money in stocks. Google the greatest stock market rallies in history. This one is not it.
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.
Wrong. You would be rich if you had bought bitcoin when the banks were bailed out. You would not have even tripled your money in stocks. Google the greatest stock market rallies in history. This one is not it.
Not here to argue what the greatest investment in the world was from 2008 onward... Just saying the bailouts led to a huge rally in stocks and maybe a bailout here would lead to a similar result.
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.
Wrong. You would be rich if you had bought bitcoin when the banks were bailed out. You would not have even tripled your money in stocks. Google the greatest stock market rallies in history. This one is not it.
Not here to argue what the greatest investment in the world was from 2008 onward... Just saying the bailouts led to a huge rally in stocks and maybe a bailout here would lead to a similar result.
Well I will down vote a bailout delegate and I am sure others will to.
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.
Wrong. You would be rich if you had bought bitcoin when the banks were bailed out. You would not have even tripled your money in stocks. Google the greatest stock market rallies in history. This one is not it.
Not here to argue what the greatest investment in the world was from 2008 onward... Just saying the bailouts led to a huge rally in stocks and maybe a bailout here would lead to a similar result.
Well I will down vote a bailout delegate and I am sure others will to.
Exactly, we can always do that.
来自我的 M040 上的 Tapatalk
However, there is something to be said about running delegates to inflate the supply against people's will for something as unpopular as what many on this thread have termed a "bail out".
Delegates are voted. If we create delegates for this fund and they are voted in, it unambiguously means that the majority supports such delegates in which case it was right to create them. If they are not voted in then nothing lost. No matter what is the topic at hand there will always be people opposing specific delegates for whatsoever reason and ending up having to pay for something they didn't aprove if the majority decides otherwise.I have a new proposal. I'll develop more on that later, but here is the outline:
We create a bailout fund that will be funded by N delegates. Each time the fund receives delegate payments, it bugs bitBTC and airdrops it to BTER users who registered on Bitshares prorata of their lost BTC holding. This is litterally a vested bail out fund but the vesting schedule is dynamic and adjust with the BTS exchange rate.
No delegates.
I do not support delegates because this forces people who are obviously against this idea to pay for something they hate.
do not want to trade a user base over at BTER (who might simply bail and go to a competitor after they regain access to their funds) for an already loyal COMMUNITY hereThere is no trading one thing for another. As always the community will support whatever its majority has decided to do because that's the consensus on which Bitshares is based and something every stakeholder accepted when they joined Bitshare.
Let people buy in if they want to. Get contact with BTERI will contact BTER once I have the funding nailed. Contacting them now to offer them nothing concrete is a waste of time. I also expect that they must be flooded by messages from their angry users so it will certainly help if the message is delivered through the usual official channel so that it doesn't end up being garbaged by a support staff.
However, there is something to be said about running delegates to inflate the supply against people's will for something as unpopular as what many on this thread have termed a "bail out".
Electing 'against people's will' is an oxymoron, if you define the will of the people as the majority vote. If the shareholders want it, it will happen, and the inverse is true as well.
This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.
This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).
This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.
This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).
This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.
This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).
This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.
Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It! (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.
It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this. It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.
Wall street bailouts led to the biggest rally in the us stock market in history... I know many of you are zero hedge tinfoil hat people and think it's rigged, but you are rich if you bought stocks when the banks were bailed out.
Wrong. You would be rich if you had bought bitcoin when the banks were bailed out. You would not have even tripled your money in stocks. Google the greatest stock market rallies in history. This one is not it.
Not here to argue what the greatest investment in the world was from 2008 onward... Just saying the bailouts led to a huge rally in stocks and maybe a bailout here would lead to a similar result.
Well I will down vote a bailout delegate and I am sure others will to.
Exactly, we can always do that.
来自我的 M040 上的 Tapatalk
I haven't looked too in-depth at voting, but I thought the rules were that you could only "approve" a delegate that you like, and it wasn't possible to "downvote" delegates you don't agree with...?
But yea, it's fairly obvious a delegate specifically for this wouldn't gain very wide approval. But that's the beauty of BitShares -- the delegate can be made and the shareholders can come to a consensus with their voting power. If the widespread consensus is against any kind of bailout, that will be shown through votes. Sounds fair to me.
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.
This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).
This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.
Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It! (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.
It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this. It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.
Yes you said do it, and you said many other things also. So what?
Are you post this to claim Klosure is not capable of understanding your point?
Oh, please stop to post like this to HURT Klosure even more.
My respect to Klosure and to many Klosures in the past.
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.
This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).
This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.
Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It! (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.
It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this. It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.
Yes you said do it, and you said many other things also. So what?
Are you post this to claim Klosure is not capable of understanding your point?
Oh, please stop to post like this to HURT Klosure even more.
My respect to Klosure and to many Klosures in the past.
I am not sure what you mean. Would you like to join me in mumble for a few?
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.
This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).
This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.
Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It! (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.
It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this. It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.
Yes you said do it, and you said many other things also. So what?
Are you post this to claim Klosure is not capable of understanding your point?
Oh, please stop to post like this to HURT Klosure even more.
My respect to Klosure and to many Klosures in the past.
I am not sure what you mean. Would you like to join me in mumble for a few?
My point is perhaps communicate skills. I'm with you on many many issues fuzzy, even on this buyout one. But often you are a bit offensive and a bit lack of respect of others. actually maybe it's the whole community "problem". I'm a little picky on you, because I have high expectation on you. Sorry for confusion。
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.
This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).
This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.
Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It! (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.
It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this. It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.
Yes you said do it, and you said many other things also. So what?
Are you post this to claim Klosure is not capable of understanding your point?
Oh, please stop to post like this to HURT Klosure even more.
My respect to Klosure and to many Klosures in the past.
I am not sure what you mean. Would you like to join me in mumble for a few?
My point is perhaps communicate skills. I'm with you on many many issues fuzzy, even on this buyout one. But often you are a bit offensive and a bit lack of respect of others. actually maybe it's the whole community "problem". I'm a little picky on you, because I have high expectation on you. Sorry for confusion。
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.
This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).
This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.
Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It! (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.
It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
It feels more like you are expecting everyone to be 100% for this. It isn't going to happen...if that is what you are waiting for.
Yes you said do it, and you said many other things also. So what?
Are you post this to claim Klosure is not capable of understanding your point?
Oh, please stop to post like this to HURT Klosure even more.
My respect to Klosure and to many Klosures in the past.
I am not sure what you mean. Would you like to join me in mumble for a few?
My point is perhaps communicate skills. I'm with you on many many issues fuzzy, even on this buyout one. But often you are a bit offensive and a bit lack of respect of others. actually maybe it's the whole community "problem". I'm a little picky on you, because I have high expectation on you. Sorry for confusion。
Interesting. I find you a bit offensive and feel Fuzzy is often a calming voice in a sea of Jerry Springer on the forums. Different opinions I assume.
I've outlined how I think it should be done...in a way that puts the risks directly on those philosophically inclined to buying out BTER and does it in a way that gives those who take the risk a large portion of the benefit while giving the BitShare's ecosystem some level of Plausible Deniability when Inevitably all those posters with Dan and Stan's heads on communist Russia propaganda start becoming popular memes all over crypto.You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the community makes some commitments and stands to benefit from initiatives. Or it doesn't and then things don't happen and people move on.
Klosure..Noone said not to do it. In fact I said Do It! (Not that my opinion should matter if you intently disagree.)I have no reason or incentive to take risks if I get no support. Done my market research on this forum. The result is: not gonna work. Time to cut the loss and move on, I have wasted more time than I was planning trying to ignite that discussion.
It does not sound like you are here wanting to take the risk though. ..
We are preparing for the withdrawals. CNY, USD and NXT withdrawals will be handled first.
We are preparing for the withdrawals. CNY, USD and NXT withdrawals will be handled first.
QuoteWe are preparing for the withdrawals. CNY, USD and NXT withdrawals will be handled first.
No mention of BTS, and add to that the confusion of snapshots/vested balances.
I hope any of our dev is trying to get in touch.
I'm tired of trying to convince this community that having a customer base is critical or that the best time to acquire a business is when it's on the verge of failure. Dilution has been abused for all the wrong reasons but it won't be allowed for a good reason. Delegates are abused for all sorts of superficial matters but it won't be allocated to meaningful business moves like acquiring a customer base.
This the the second proposal I make that goes nowhere due to a total lack of perspective here. I proposed bridging Ripple to Bitshares to bring in liquidity and would have happily developed it myself but was opposed with libertarian rethoric that Ripple is centralized and bank friendly and therefore evil (nevermind the liquidity). Now people seem unable to see beyond the superficial of a failed exchange to look at its assets (nevermind the customer base, the liquidity, the ecosystem and the infrastructure).
This community really lacks business accumen and seems content maintaining the status quo. So be it. I wish you people all the best.
Another thing I didn't have the time to explain earlier: since BTER is willing to hand over the brand and website and dissolve the company there won't be a need to keep the central exchange running with the same staff. That means we can transform BTER in whatever we want: a Bitshares centric exchange, a gateway.
If that happens I'm willing to roll my sleeves and help migrating BTER to a new Bitshares centric backend. But first we need to nail the funding aspect.
They are only allowing USD, CNY, and NXT withdrawals currently.
Woohoo!!! The bitshares selling can resume...-5%
Why don't you buy mtgox?Or who bought Bear Stearns? JP Morgan did. JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.
There is your answer.
Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.
If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?
Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.
Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to $500 per.
Why don't you buy mtgox?Or who bought Bear Stearns? JP Morgan did. JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.
There is your answer.
Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.
If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?
Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.
Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to $500 per.
Mind you I'm not a big fan of them, but it is true.
Why don't you buy mtgox?Or who bought Bear Stearns? JP Morgan did. JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.
There is your answer.
Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.
If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?
Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.
Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to $500 per.
Mind you I'm not a big fan of them, but it is true.
JP Morgan also got freshly printed fiat for their troubles. At that point, people chose security over freedom. Interestingly, Satoshi gave us bitcoin around the same point in time, for those of us who wanted to choose freedom.
If we could get some freshly printed btc for our troubles, I would say go for it. Fortunately, crypto doesn't work that way. Solutions to these problems are required to be free market in nature. In this case, bter will most likely have to be expunged from the system.
Why don't you buy mtgox?Or who bought Bear Stearns? JP Morgan did. JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.
There is your answer.
Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.
If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?
Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.
Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to $500 per.
Mind you I'm not a big fan of them, but it is true.
JP Morgan also got freshly printed fiat for their troubles. At that point, people chose security over freedom. Interestingly, Satoshi gave us bitcoin around the same point in time, for those of us who wanted to choose freedom.
If we could get some freshly printed btc for our troubles, I would say go for it. Fortunately, crypto doesn't work that way. Solutions to these problems are required to be free market in nature. In this case, bter will most likely have to be expunged from the system.
I actually believe the crisis was engineered so "Satoshi" could create bitcoin to usher in a New World Currency that would be ultimately controlled by the same people.
I mean do we really think that Satoshi is still in danger when we have so many people openly working in crypto? It is all the Hegelian Dialectic man: Create the problem knowing you already have the solution that benefits you most ready for launch. Then when people are crying out for someone to fix the problem, you drop in the trojan horse to "fix it" for them.
Why don't you buy mtgox?Or who bought Bear Stearns? JP Morgan did. JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.
There is your answer.
Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.
If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?
Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.
Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to $500 per.
Mind you I'm not a big fan of them, but it is true.
That is a possibility, one amongst many. So it is good to hold on to our beliefs lightly and our principles tightly. Then we won't go wrong.
Why don't you buy mtgox?Or who bought Bear Stearns? JP Morgan did. JP Morgan became bigger and more powerful from the deal...took the assets that needed to be shed and sold them, and kept the rest for themselves.
There is your answer.
Pull your fucking heads out of your ass and kill this thread. Nobody is going to do business with any incarnation of bter now.
If you truly believe buying an insolvent company is the best time to buy it, then riddle me this: who bought Lehman Brothers or Enron?
Bter has exactly 1 asset; their name. Only the dumbest person on the planet would pay anything more than a buck for it as it's is a tainted name and may only have slight posterity, sentimental, or bragging rights in its worth.
Bter lost over $1.7 million worth of bitcoin at the time of the theft. Double that number if bitcoin skyrockets to $500 per.
Mind you I'm not a big fan of them, but it is true.
Bear Stearns was not insolvent. Investors lost faith/confidence as rumors of liquidity issues were coming out.
I actually believe the crisis was engineered so "Satoshi" could create bitcoin to usher in a New World Currency that would be ultimately controlled by the same people.
I actually believe the crisis was engineered so "Satoshi" could create bitcoin to usher in a New World Currency that would be ultimately controlled by the same people.
I fail to see how Bitcoin is a New World Currency controlled by the same paople, really. Care to explain?
Its because fuzzy is a conspiracy theorist who doesnt need actual evidence in order to believe something. :P
Its because fuzzy is a conspiracy theorist who doesnt need actual evidence in order to believe something. :P
Count me in conspiracy theorists too, but Bitcoin is a cure for NWO, not their friend.
I actually believe the crisis was engineered so "Satoshi" could create bitcoin to usher in a New World Currency that would be ultimately controlled by the same people.
I fail to see how Bitcoin is a New World Currency controlled by the same paople, really. Care to explain?
Its because fuzzy is a conspiracy theorist who doesnt need actual evidence in order to believe something. :P
Its because fuzzy is a conspiracy theorist who doesnt need actual evidence in order to believe something. :P
Count me in conspiracy theorists too, but Bitcoin is a cure for NWO, not their friend.
I need help. Withdraws are open on bter and I currently have CNY in my account but I don't have a chinese bank account. Any way I can get my money out? Thanks
I need help. Withdraws are open on bter and I currently have CNY in my account but I don't have a chinese bank account. Any way I can get my money out? ThanksWhat?
When you own the system you make the numbers exactly what you want them to be. If you don't believe me, look at the cpi and how those statistics are manipulated.
Or if you want real evidence of "conspiracies" (btw, I love how people give the term "conspiracy" the same credence as they would the word unicorn...as though they don't exist. ..lol) check out libor. Or go read up on the 28 classified pages of the 911 report that implicate Saudi Involvement. People conspire my friend.
So by BTC balance on bter is > 0.. is it possible my account still has the BTC? Anyone get any BTC out?
Smart moves to release first the CNY to prevent any local legal complaints.
If you are the hacker and have altcoins in bter, do you still withdraw your altcoins? ;)
Someone sent me this interesting article. Bter got 85% of its stolen NXT during the NXT hack via a negotiator. I hope a similar negotiation is underway and bter would not only survive this crisis but grow stronger from it.
http://cointelegraph.com/news/112356/exclusive-key-negotiator-in-bter-nxt-hack-speaks-out
Someone sent me this interesting article. Bter got 85% of its stolen NXT during the NXT hack via a negotiator. I hope a similar negotiation is underway and bter would not only survive this crisis but grow stronger from it.
http://cointelegraph.com/news/112356/exclusive-key-negotiator-in-bter-nxt-hack-speaks-out
"We have handled a large volume of CNY and USD withdrawals and we are going to handle the altcoins in the next step"
https://twitter.com/btercom/status/571382510073966592
Hopefully sometime this year..
I am sort of confused by these pieces of bter working while others are not. They are operating as though their site had been deleted and they are slowly restoring it back to its previous functionality. I don't understand how a cold wallet theft should impact everything else the way it has. Shutdown BTC transactions.. allow everything else to carry on.. why not?
Hello. I had a good bit of BTS on Bter. They gave out bonuses of some BTS "assets..??" called "Play" and something else in the November-December timeframe. How do I withdraw and save these things? I really don't know anything about them. I have the BTS wllet installed and working on a computer to withdraw my BTS if/when that becomes possible but don't know if these other "shares" are worth anything. Advice? Thanks.
https://twitter.com/btercom/status/572372272536662017
Does this mean that they will not allow to withdraw any other altcoins until they rebuild their backend? Why they left this open for speculation? :-X
I am talking this positively. The were having issues with the wallet security and that is probably why could not release the altcoins. Now bter wants to be back in operation. This is tremendous good news.
I agree. That is a good outcome if it works out in a timely manner. Especially good news for people with snapshots on bter. That would have been a total mess if they stopped operation.
Good news? They likely processed this stuff manually. The fact they are changing plans means that maybe they realized people were just happy to remove all their coins when given a chance. (I've been waiting.) They're going to rebuild it now? Huh? Well let people continue to remove their coins and then when you have a rewrite done open back up.
This is just an excuse to not pay people and is NEVER good news except that snapshots now have a >0% chance of being delivered.
Good news? They likely processed this stuff manually. The fact they are changing plans means that maybe they realized people were just happy to remove all their coins when given a chance. (I've been waiting.) They're going to rebuild it now? Huh? Well let people continue to remove their coins and then when you have a rewrite done open back up.
This is just an excuse to not pay people and is NEVER good news except that snapshots now have a >0% chance of being delivered.
We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).
We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).
When you buy a company you get the staff with it. If the company is profitable like BTER is it pays for its own staff. I already explained the details higher in the thread so I am not going to waste time beating a dead horse. Just wait and see BTER resume operation as a SuperNET gateway and you'll understand what I meant earlier.We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).
It is beyond amusing that you think that a DAC should take up the remains of a insecure centralized exchange. I don't even begin to understand how you think that would work. All those different coins and addresses, someone has to make sure it is straightened up going forward. Who would fund and manage this? I guess the bitshares devs would drop working on bitshares to finish cleaning up the bter mess?? Yea, so much value... value if you want to steal the coins.
When you buy a company you get the staff with it. If the company is profitable like BTER is it pays for its own staff. I already explained the details higher in the thread so I am not going to waste time beating a dead horse. Just wait and see BTER resume operation as a SuperNET gateway and you'll understand what I meant earlier.We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).
It is beyond amusing that you think that a DAC should take up the remains of a insecure centralized exchange. I don't even begin to understand how you think that would work. All those different coins and addresses, someone has to make sure it is straightened up going forward. Who would fund and manage this? I guess the bitshares devs would drop working on bitshares to finish cleaning up the bter mess?? Yea, so much value... value if you want to steal the coins.
Just checked balance on Bter. $00 was the balance. Last week I had $62.00.
When you buy a company you get the staff with it. If the company is profitable like BTER is it pays for its own staff. I already explained the details higher in the thread so I am not going to waste time beating a dead horse. Just wait and see BTER resume operation as a SuperNET gateway and you'll understand what I meant earlier.We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).
It is beyond amusing that you think that a DAC should take up the remains of a insecure centralized exchange. I don't even begin to understand how you think that would work. All those different coins and addresses, someone has to make sure it is straightened up going forward. Who would fund and manage this? I guess the bitshares devs would drop working on bitshares to finish cleaning up the bter mess?? Yea, so much value... value if you want to steal the coins.
When you buy a company you get the staff with it. If the company is profitable like BTER is it pays for its own staff. I already explained the details higher in the thread so I am not going to waste time beating a dead horse. Just wait and see BTER resume operation as a SuperNET gateway and you'll understand what I meant earlier.We decided to work with our partners to rebuild the backend platform, completely resolve the wallet issue, reactivate bter operation.Translation: BTER was sold, and of course next owner wants to keep the exchange running. That someone would pick such a low handing fruit was a no brainer: you'd really have to be short-sighted not to see the tremendous value in BTER :).
It is beyond amusing that you think that a DAC should take up the remains of a insecure centralized exchange. I don't even begin to understand how you think that would work. All those different coins and addresses, someone has to make sure it is straightened up going forward. Who would fund and manage this? I guess the bitshares devs would drop working on bitshares to finish cleaning up the bter mess?? Yea, so much value... value if you want to steal the coins.
I agree about dead horse, but if bter was so profitable it wouldn't need a buyer... just saying. You can't just trust the employee's of a foreign bank without any oversight. It would just be asking for it. If a buyer got the existing employees, then they shouldn't shutdown withdrawals either.
It sees they might have sold the site, and the new owners ("their partners") have much more sense and are now trying to maximize bter's value.
It sees they might have sold the site, and the new owners ("their partners") have much more sense and are now trying to maximize bter's value.
This explains sudden disappearance of bytemaster and co. ;D
Sorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.
Bter.com tweet https://twitter.com/btercom/status/573043042329882624
Sorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.
..
This is just an excuse to not pay people and is NEVER good news except that snapshots now have a >0% chance of being delivered.
Yep. This is a stalling tactic and not good.
Bter.com tweet https://twitter.com/btercom/status/573043042329882624QuoteSorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.
Edit: added 'quotes'
Bter.com tweet https://twitter.com/btercom/status/573043042329882624QuoteSorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.
Edit: added 'quotes'
Altcoins yes. What about Bitcoins?
Bter.com tweet https://twitter.com/btercom/status/573043042329882624QuoteSorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.
Edit: added 'quotes'
Altcoins yes. What about Bitcoins?
They lost ALL their Bitcoin, hot+cold wallet. What do you expect? Bitcoin balances are totally screwed. Only your altcoin balance is safe (IF they keep their promise of allow altcoin withdrawals in a week).
How can they re-enable trading without reimbursing all customers who lost funds first?
How can they re-enable trading without reimbursing all customers who lost funds first?
It seems that re-enabling trading is their only hope of creating some funds with which to pay back customer losses.
Its unclear whether they lost all their BTC or just a significant portion of it. If they lost say, 50% of their BTC, then they could put the other 50% of BTC back into customer accounts after repairing the security flaws, and allow trading/withdrawals.
How can they re-enable trading without reimbursing all customers who lost funds first?
It seems that re-enabling trading is their only hope of creating some funds with which to pay back customer losses.
Its unclear whether they lost all their BTC or just a significant portion of it. If they lost say, 50% of their BTC, then they could put the other 50% of BTC back into customer accounts after repairing the security flaws, and allow trading/withdrawals.
I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be acceptable for the vast majority of users. Isn't it quite likely disgruntled users will form a class action lawsuit against them, forcing them to sell off their assets to cover their customer's losses?
Bter.com tweet https://twitter.com/btercom/status/573043042329882624QuoteSorry for the long wait. We will solve the security issue completely and get all altcoins online and enable the withdrawals in a week.
Edit: added 'quotes'
Altcoins yes. What about Bitcoins?
They lost ALL their Bitcoin, hot+cold wallet. What do you expect? Bitcoin balances are totally screwed. Only your altcoin balance is safe (IF they keep their promise of allow altcoin withdrawals in a week).
Thing is, if they really somehow return all the money lost, they would get very good reputation and may continue business. In other cases, they may close the door.
Rumor has it they shut down the whole operation but marketing guys were given a most kind BTS severance bonus.Zing!
We are deploying our new trading system with the safest ever cold wallet solution. we will finish it in 24-48 hours.
in the meantime BTS 0.7.0 is due 3 days .. may be a coincidence :) :P :P
https://twitter.com/btercom/status/574946304075264004QuoteWe are deploying our new trading system with the safest ever cold wallet solution. we will finish it in 24-48 hours.
in the meantime BTS 0.7.0 is due 3 days .. may be a coincidence :) :P :P
https://twitter.com/btercom/status/574946304075264004QuoteWe are deploying our new trading system with the safest ever cold wallet solution. we will finish it in 24-48 hours.
https://twitter.com/btercom/status/574946304075264004QuoteWe are deploying our new trading system with the safest ever cold wallet solution. we will finish it in 24-48 hours.
https://twitter.com/btercom/status/574946304075264004QuoteWe are deploying our new trading system with the safest ever cold wallet solution. we will finish it in 24-48 hours.
http://Bter.com will recover at 24~48 hours supported by JUA. http://OKcoin.com public their cold storage strategy
... JUA is a financial management site of Chinabtc
The trading will be enabled soon. Please do double check your balances and the price in your existing orders.
The previous BTC balance has been moved to BTC-B which will be used as the reference for 100% compensating our user's BTC loss.
Logged on and for a minute all my balances were zero, and then a bit later they were there again...
My balance is still 0 ::)
I think bter will survive based on one simple fact: If bter survives and grows, users get their BTC back, and if it doesnt, they dont. In the same way bitcoin miners early on were incentivized to bottstrap the bitcoin network, bter users with most coins are incentivized to help bter survive in order to get their BTC returned.
Obviously it is injured by this and wont be what it once was, like bitstamp, but it should survive.
My BTC and BTC_B is different
BTC 0.373500
BTC_B 0.022140
Anyone know which snapshot this one belongs to on BTER?
Dec.14,2014BTS_S2
Anyone know which snapshot this one belongs to on BTER?
Dec.14,2014BTS_S2
as much as i know it that sparkleAnyone know which snapshot this one belongs to on BTER?
Dec.14,2014BTS_S2
Dec.14.14 PTS_S8
I cancelled all my orders and the BTC went to BTC balance.My BTC and BTC_B is different
BTC 0.373500
BTC_B 0.022140
How the heck do you have BTC, it should be 0?
Anyone know which snapshot this one belongs to on BTER?
Dec.14,2014BTS_S2
Dec.14.14 PTS_S8
as much as i know it that sparkleAnyone know which snapshot this one belongs to on BTER?
Dec.14,2014BTS_S2
Dec.14.14 PTS_S8
Fine, markets are working but still no one is able to withdraw BTS?
Sparkle.
Sparkle.
Sparkle. Is that still a thing?
Sparkle.
Sparkle. Is that still a thing?
The plan was to wait for 1.0 as code base. As it takes longer as expected to get there I have no idea if there is still interest though. I certainly don't have high expectations if it should ever launch.
Bter has moved some of my BTC from BTC_B to BTC. and my account has a positive value for BTC. But I still can't collect interest or withdraw it.
"Total funds estimation: 25.76 USD or 0.08654 BTC "
Bter has moved some of my BTC from BTC_B to BTC. and my account has a positive value for BTC. But I still can't collect interest or withdraw it.
"Total funds estimation: 25.76 USD or 0.08654 BTC "
Withdrawals still arent enabled (for anything). Right now you could trade it for a few alts, including BTS.
I was able to get my BTS out of Bter by selling all of it for LTC. Then withdrawing LTC to another exchange. I lost a few bucks for the conversion, but saved the lion share. Thank the Lord Jesus.
Yes, LTC withdrawal is enabled. I found it by poking around.I was able to get my BTS out of Bter by selling all of it for LTC. Then withdrawing LTC to another exchange. I lost a few bucks for the conversion, but saved the lion share. Thank the Lord Jesus.
LTC withdrawal is enabled already?
They should really enable everything at the same time.
Bter: "首批1000BTC已经下发到用户帐号,其中500BTC用于支持已有订单,500BTC按照用户BTC_B比例已经分发给受影响的用户。以后我们将持续为受影响用户分发BTC,尽最大努力和最快速度完成100%用户损失补偿。完成补偿后受影响用户还将额外分享BTER半年手续费收入。"
First 1000BTC given to users, of which 500BTC is used to support placed orders, 500BTC to match against BTC_B records of affected users. We will continue to work very hard to pay BTC users in the earliest possible time and with 100% compensation. Affected users will get a bonus of half year BTER fee after being made whole.
Bter: "首批1000BTC已经下发到用户帐号,其中500BTC用于支持已有订单,500BTC按照用户BTC_B比例已经分发给受影响的用户。以后我们将持续为受影响用户分发BTC,尽最大努力和最快速度完成100%用户损失补偿。完成补偿后受影响用户还将额外分享BTER半年手续费收入。"
First 1000BTC given to users, of which 500BTC is used to support placed orders, 500BTC to match against BTC_B records of affected users. We will continue to work very hard to pay BTC users in the earliest possible time and with 100% compensation. Affected users will get a bonus of half year BTER fee after being made whole.
Well done. They always come back with the benefits users are going to get. Smart PR twist :)
BTS & BTC withdrawals enabled!!
Ahhhhhhhh, finally... :)
Mine still says processing.
Mine still says processing.
Is there any particular part of site where yoiu can read "processing". I can't find one...
On the withdrawal page for that coin.
trying to withdraw btc from bter, keeps saying 'Invalid fund password'
What do they mean with fund password? This is aparently not my account pasword?
thx
Has anyone got their withdrawal yet? Mine still says processing.
My test withdrawal of 500 BTS is hanging at "processing" for 6-7 hours now...anybody had any withdrawals of BTS go through?
My test withdrawal of 500 BTS is hanging at "processing" for 6-7 hours now...anybody had any withdrawals of BTS go through?
I Sent this to the Bter support:+5%
"Mar 13, 17:29
When am I going to be able to withdraw my BitShares? I'm already waiting since weeks.
Yesterday BTS withdrawals were enabled and I submitted it but now today I see its disabled again and the funds remain in my Bter account.
When do you expect to have BTS withdrawals working 100%?"
They Replied:
"Mar 13, 17:46
Dear Sir,
BTS withdrawal is suspended . The new BTS wallet is not stable and we have contacted the BTS dev team .
We will process the bts withdrawal later when the wallet is proven to be stable enough.
Best Regards
Bter.com"
What is the issue with the BitShares wallet on Bter? Can someone from BitShares have a look at this?
I have my coins stuck there since weeks, please help.
I Sent this to the Bter support:+5%
"Mar 13, 17:29
When am I going to be able to withdraw my BitShares? I'm already waiting since weeks.
Yesterday BTS withdrawals were enabled and I submitted it but now today I see its disabled again and the funds remain in my Bter account.
When do you expect to have BTS withdrawals working 100%?"
They Replied:
"Mar 13, 17:46
Dear Sir,
BTS withdrawal is suspended . The new BTS wallet is not stable and we have contacted the BTS dev team .
We will process the bts withdrawal later when the wallet is proven to be stable enough.
Best Regards
Bter.com"
What is the issue with the BitShares wallet on Bter? Can someone from BitShares have a look at this?
I have my coins stuck there since weeks, please help.
Given everything we have seen of BTER of late.. 1000 BTS says they are running something like v0.5 wallet.
Given everything we have seen of BTER of late.. 1000 BTS says they are running something like v0.5 wallet.
I doubt it. BitShares 0.6.0 was released on 7 Feb while Bter was hacked around 15 Feb.
I think I was the first one on earlier when it relaunched. I went to BTS withdrawal and it was enabled. Tried to withdraw 1000 bts test amount, it said it was successful but I never received it. Then a few minutes later it was disabled and still is now.
Given everything we have seen of BTER of late.. 1000 BTS says they are running something like v0.5 wallet.
I doubt it. BitShares 0.6.0 was released on 7 Feb while Bter was hacked around 15 Feb.
Are you part of the dev team? Can someone from the dev team please contact them?
I'm getting really frustrated that my coins are being held by a centralized entity and I can't do anything about it.
Please help!
i try to withdrawal 130k of pts yerterday and are lost,.,, not in balance.. not in my wallet
same to 100 BTS
i send a mail to support@mail.bter.com
Ye sometime bter system does that, but eventually the balance shows up. I didn't even bother to ask support, since if they gonna run away with my money, there's nothing I could do anyway. If they aren't going to run away with my money, then it'll be sorted eventually.
Sounds like I'm the only one that got any BTS out. It took ages but it did actually work.
i try to withdrawal 130k of pts yerterday and are lost,.,, not in balance.. not in my wallet
same to 100 BTS
i send a mail to support@mail.bter.com
Same here
I submitted a request for bitUSD and bitGOLD some time ago (when the balances first showed up again). I have now received them. BTS is still being blocked but this gives me a lot of confidence.
https://bter.com/
503 Service Unavailable
No server is available to handle this request.