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Messages - Samupaha

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226
Technical Support / Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« on: January 07, 2016, 06:05:30 pm »
Quote from: donschoe on January 07, 2016, 05:23:13 pm
Quote from: Stan on January 07, 2016, 02:16:28 pm
12 ) We invented a new kind of tradable asset to go with Market Pegged Assets (MPA) and User Issued Assets (UIA).  These are called Fee Backed Assets (FBA).  FBAs are UIAs that have been hardwired to pay their holders a share of the fees generated by some new function or service on the BitShares blockchain.   This provides a new incentive for new developers to add features and get paid for their efforts.  In effect, an FBA is a mini-DAC that shares the BitShares blockchain.  It also gives BitShares interesting new assets to trade that you can't get anywhere else.
Uh, oh, I like that one very much. Will look into it.

Unfortunately there's not much information about it yet.

Since this is a questions thread... When there will be info page about FBA on Bitshares website? White paper would be even better, but I guess that have to wait.

227
General Discussion / Re: how many delegates you vote usually
« on: January 07, 2016, 04:37:50 pm »
Bitshares doesn't have delegates anymore. Please learn how the system works before you start to criticize it. You can think whatever you want, but if your goal to persuade others to change their behavior or change the rules that DAC is operating by, you have to also explain the reasons.

228
General Discussion / Re: Decentralized Exchanges vs Centralized Exchanges
« on: January 07, 2016, 09:39:28 am »
This is how I see it all will go:

Exchanges who share their orderbooks will become mostly gateways. They don't need to offer an exchange service for their customers, because that's what Bitshares does. They will be just a UI for BEX – preferably very good UI so that they can get lots of customers and referral income.

Normal exchange works like this: it offers the exchange service and customers can trade USD-IOU and BTC-IOU in there.

When a normal exchange starts to use BEX as a trading engine, they will still issue their own IOUs and let customers trade with those. I don't see a problem with that. There will be many gateways and many different IOUs for same currency, like BTC or USD. Some of those, like USD, will not be allowed to trade against all other assets for regulatory reasons. But others, like BTC, will be.

So there will lots of trading pairs that will create big markets. This is good from Bitshares point of view because it will create much more trading than only bitBTC alone would create.

BTC-IOUs from different gateways will trade 1:1 for most of the time. But if there is some suspicions of insolvency, IOUs from that particular exchange will become cheaper and that will provide valuable information for all market participants. IOUs are not backed with nothing, they are backed with reputation.

Stan has a good point on risks and time. And I'd like to emphasize that for most ordinary people, gateway-IOUs will be only a tool to get in or out the system. We can let more advanced traders to handle the trading with all the different IOUs. I think they might like if there were lots of different trading pairs and not only a few.

229
General Discussion / Re: Decentralized Exchanges vs Centralized Exchanges
« on: January 06, 2016, 08:04:20 pm »
Quote from: Akado on January 06, 2016, 07:39:41 pm
The problem still remains, shared order books are an awesome concept, it can be something really big, however I just can't get past the problems with the collateral needed to create the assets. I would like to know people's opinions on this and brainstorm a little.

How other exchanges get the assets that users trade? From the users, when they do deposits. My guess is that other exchanges that will share their books with Bitshares are going to focus on profiting via gateway and referral businesses. They just try to get as much users as they can and let them trade whatever they want.

BitBTC isn't the real bitcoin. It's a derivative that is useful only in Bitshares exchange and nowhere else. That's why I don't think we can presume that all exchanges are going to do 1:1 rate from real BTC to bitBTC. Instead they will let customers trade and free markets will decide the exchange rate.

230
General Discussion / Re: Decentralized Exchanges vs Centralized Exchanges
« on: January 06, 2016, 07:28:49 pm »
Good points Akado!

My suggestion is that we emphasize less the decentralization part of our exchange and instead call it what it really is: derivatives exchange. Let bitcoin be just a tool to get in and out the system via gateway and not focus on it as an important trade object.

We can have hundreds of different markets that other exchanges don't have. Let's forget the bitcoin and concentrate on getting new customers to come to our exchange and trade and use our unique products.

231
General Discussion / Re: Basket MPA
« on: January 06, 2016, 06:49:17 pm »
Quote from: Empirical1.1 on January 02, 2015, 01:26:57 am
The downside of being a StableCoin early adopter is you could lose a lot and the upside is that if it works you just get to maintain your relative purchasing power. So you will probably be required to pay a lot of interest to attract any demand. Especially when limited crypto-currencies and currently suppressed gold/silver, exposure to which is available via BitAssets give people currency options that are likely to explode in relative purchasing power if there’s significant problems with the global financial system and major fiat currencies.

Purchasing power stability is also relative to specific countries based on their economic situation and government policies. So even if you achieve a greater degree of average global stability you will be locally unstable over long periods so any marginal benefit you may ideally achieve over current options will be in practical terms largely negated. 

In terms of pricing goods, people are looking at their expenses which are currently priced in national currencies. So if you’re working on tight margins & budgets that’s the kind of stability and predictability you’re after which is available via BitCurrencies. Any deviations the StableCoin makes to a currency people are working in, (provided it's not very inflationary - then anything else is better) will be a negative to this market. 

So from my POV StableCoin is unstable at a local level  & unstable for businesses even if it works while being high risk for very limited reward.  Unlike BitAssets, the system will require years to prove it’s efficacy to the market. I also think it's quite likely that after years of work, StableCoin will just be seen as an alternative to a CPI or commodity basket ETF.

Thanks, those are good points.

So would it be best just to stick to gold and silver and not try to create something more stable? Let users hold several currencies and use whatever they feel is the best in a current situation?

232
General Discussion / Re: The Benefits of Proof of Work [BLOG POST]
« on: January 06, 2016, 06:32:20 pm »
Quote from: FreeTrade on January 06, 2016, 09:42:41 am
Good to see Dan blogging. The most effective thing he could do is learn to write well and explain BitShares to the general Bitcoin user/investor. I think there is a temptation for a developer to think that if he adds just one more killer feature, it'll be the one where everyone finally recognizes how good the product is and investors will pile in. I think the opposite. BitShares is too much of a moving target for investors. Stop innovating, tidy up the loose ends, call it finished, and explain what the heck it is.

Well said. Dan's blogging was the thing that got me interested in Bitshares. It's quite effective way of marketing, at least to bring some intelligent people onboard.

We also need to finish the platform so it can start to live fully without dependency on Cryptonomex. For example, the GUI for committee is still missing, which is a big reason for so few committee members. If we look at the whole system, we can see where the problems are:
- Witnesses are working well, no problems so far there.
- Committee needs more members, preferably economists and/or blockchain specialists. The point is to get intelligent people to make wise decisions on blockchain parameters, not just reduce the power of Bytemaster for the sake of decentralization.
- More qualified workers. How to attract them?
- FBA is still just an idea. We need to formalize and document the process so that anybody can learn how to produce a new feature with FBA. Cryptonomex has a "monopoly" on FBAs because nobody else knows how to use them.

233
Technical Support / Re: better way of distributing FBA revenue than a buy back?
« on: January 06, 2016, 02:48:01 pm »
Quote from: abit on January 06, 2016, 10:07:41 am
Using the buy back model are mostly because of concerns of legal issues. Issuing a asset and paying dividends without a proper license is illegal in many countries.
On the other hand, with the buy back model, the company may have more control of it's operation.

How much more control there actually is? FBA will be a smart contract that will be executed by the blockchain. After it's issued, there is not much that the issuer can do.

We have to remember that this is meant to be a fee backed asset (or at least I have understood it this way). The value of the asset is backed by the fee that it will collect in the future.

Maybe we should even separate the two possibilities: fee backed asset is the one that will collect royalties every time the feature is used and buyback backed asset will be bought back from the markets.

234
General Discussion / Re: Basket MPA
« on: January 06, 2016, 02:29:10 pm »
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on January 06, 2016, 10:46:24 am
Quote from: Samupaha on January 06, 2016, 06:53:33 am
Yeah, I'm quite skeptical about SDRcoin too. But it might be somewhat good option if we add gold and silver into it. Is there an easy way to check the price of that basket historically?

If you mean just the SDR, there seems to be some 10 year charts available on XE.com

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=XDR&to=USD&view=10Y
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=XDR&to=XAU&view=10Y

Hmm... If we think what's the optimal way to analyze how stable a currency is, probably the best way would be to compare it to consumer price index? And not just one, but several from biggest economies around the world.

Then should be analyzed what combination of currencies, commodities, stocks, bonds, etc. can give most stable basket when it's compared to CPI-basket. We can't peg the new currency straigth to CPI because we need live feeds for feed producers. Or do we? Is it enough if we get only once a month a price for CPI?

Anyway, even if we just want to compare SDR+gold+silver-basket to USD, we need a tool that shows a historical price for that basket. It can be of course calculated from data of each asset but it will be quite time consuming to do manually. :P

Disclaimer: I don't know what I'm doing here, just thinking out loud.

235
General Discussion / Tools for beginner traders?
« on: January 06, 2016, 12:50:17 pm »
I've started to play a little bit with the exchange and left some orders there. The first and obvious inconvenience is that I have to go to look the prices every now and then to make sure my bids would make profit if they were filled. Now I'm using spreadsheet to track my orders. Is there any easier way? I'd like to have tool that tracks my orders and warns me if the price moves too much.

There seems to exists open source tools like JStock and QuantConnect Lean which might be useful. But of course Bitshares isn't working with those yet.

All of you who have no bots, how are you handling your trading?

236
General Discussion / Re: Basket MPA
« on: January 06, 2016, 06:53:33 am »
Quote from: bitacer on January 05, 2016, 08:53:44 pm
How about BASKET.METAL, BASKET.FIAT, BASKET.CRYPTO, BASKET.STOCK and then BASKET of all those?

Not really a good option for what I'm thinking here. The point is to create just one coin that can be marketed as a really stable coin globally.

Quote from: Empirical1.2 on January 05, 2016, 10:15:21 pm
Quote from: Samupaha on December 28, 2015, 08:35:26 pm
Nu guys are going to make SDR-based coin:
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/on-currency-baskets/2819
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-introduce-new-nubits-products/2834/84

I doubt there would be much demand for an SDR based coin.

But given they were able to distribute $400 000 in dividends in 2015 on the back of NBT, if they can replicate some of that with a NuYuan and NuGold, NuShares should have a good 2016. 

Yeah, I'm quite skeptical about SDRcoin too. But it might be somewhat good option if we add gold and silver into it. Is there an easy way to check the price of that basket historically?

237
General Discussion / Re: BTS UIA infographic?
« on: January 05, 2016, 02:45:18 pm »
Is this enough? https://bitshares.org/technology/user-issued-assets/

238
General Discussion / Re: What is The Official Announcement Thread that Exchanges can Follow?
« on: January 05, 2016, 02:43:37 pm »
Has anyone asked exchanges how they prefer to be alerted? We are still so small that we have to be ready to actively serve the exchanges and not the other way around.

239
General Discussion / Re: Beyond bitcoin: The future of blockchain and disruptive financial technologies
« on: January 05, 2016, 07:42:11 am »
There was also Beyond Bitcoin show at LTB. Dan was interviewed in the first episode.

240
General Discussion / Re: Mannually Triggering Revoting Idea
« on: January 05, 2016, 07:12:12 am »
Sounds good.

Can this be done in a way that makes crowdfunding possible? Something like an account, that is checked once every maintenance interval, and if it has enough funds, tallying will be done.

We have still very few committee members and it's not going to help if they have to pay to become one. If crowdfunding was possible they could just ask donations to the tallying fund account until there's enough.

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