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Quote from: Empirical1 on June 14, 2014, 05:34:00 pmQuote from: fuznuts on June 14, 2014, 10:26:25 amAs for being against Invictus doing DAC Air Drops on other cryptos (like, say, DomainShares Air Dropping to Namecoin), I cannot see why investors would not want this. Most investors are intelligent enough to at least somewhat diversify...and the bitshares community will gain a great deal of press for initiatives like these. I am just trying to see the downside(s). All ears on that I think the downside is that to date, any attempts at significant airdrops, even to targeted communities and that don't have any personal financial investment in the new coin have resulted in 99%+ losses from shareholders from the highs, which is pretty epic. These figures are a few months old but - QuoteSiliconValleyCoin achieved a high of $20 million and is now $1650 (99.9%+ Shareholder loss) AuroraCoin achieved a high of $800 million and is now $1 million... (99%+ Shareholder loss) SpainCoin achieved a high of $80 million and is now $20 000... (99.9% Shareholder loss) MazaCoin achieved a high of $6 million and is now $200 000... (96% Shareholder loss) However DomainShares to Namecoin or DogeLotto to Dogecoin should have more success. I still think the short term effect will be price negative but perhaps the overall marketing value will offset it. I think it's a good idea to test the best Airdrop strategy with a non-core DAC and gauge the results from that.Exactly ! With numbers to back it up. I came to this thread to read the new posts and add my additional 2 cents, but have a similar opinion.I think most airdrops will end up with people who just dump their shares. The airdrop needs an additional component that at least differentiates the people who care vs the people who will auto-dump. If 80% of the people dump their shares, has the DAC gained value ? (rhetorical question) At first I was more for the idea but as time has went on I've changed my opinion. I like the idea of a random chance, but not one tied into purchases. If there would be a way for a person to have to check to see fi they have received shares and not have them by default. (That means they're at least slightly more motivated given that they're doing something with a possible outcome of 0.. vs guaranteed money given a typical airdrop) So Luckybit's suggestion is good in that it differentiates people who care, but it also is just another way of purchasing shares with a random component. If you could find a way to actually discern motivated investors vs people who will just immediately dump then we'd have a solution.After reading the faucet idea I'm far more interested in that. We really want people who are motivated to use the DAC. DNS/Namecoin is an obvious fit, but what outside of that fits ? Will Namecoin people dump their shares because they want to protect Namecoin? Lots of unknowns on the behavior end of things.Perhaps a faucet that is tied into the addresses of other coins. Then from there add a few other parameters to keep people from spreading their money out into different addresses. Then you have a hybrid faucet and airdrop !They download the DAC, get an address for receiving their shares. Then if there was a standard way for us to verify they were in control of certain addresses of the airdropped coin, they put that in there. The address would likely need a certain sized balance at a certain date, or the person could just move the money and use the faucet again. There are lots of combinations of verification parameters but I suspect this idea might be the best way to "airdrop".But then I ask myself why bother even having the airdrop to a certain coin? A public faucet would be better. Perhaps the airdrop-faucet could reward slightly higher amounts ? Or at least make a certain coin feel more involved if there was a faucet exclusive to certain coins ?Anyway.. just my rambling 2 cents.
Quote from: fuznuts on June 14, 2014, 10:26:25 amAs for being against Invictus doing DAC Air Drops on other cryptos (like, say, DomainShares Air Dropping to Namecoin), I cannot see why investors would not want this. Most investors are intelligent enough to at least somewhat diversify...and the bitshares community will gain a great deal of press for initiatives like these. I am just trying to see the downside(s). All ears on that I think the downside is that to date, any attempts at significant airdrops, even to targeted communities and that don't have any personal financial investment in the new coin have resulted in 99%+ losses from shareholders from the highs, which is pretty epic. These figures are a few months old but - QuoteSiliconValleyCoin achieved a high of $20 million and is now $1650 (99.9%+ Shareholder loss) AuroraCoin achieved a high of $800 million and is now $1 million... (99%+ Shareholder loss) SpainCoin achieved a high of $80 million and is now $20 000... (99.9% Shareholder loss) MazaCoin achieved a high of $6 million and is now $200 000... (96% Shareholder loss) However DomainShares to Namecoin or DogeLotto to Dogecoin should have more success. I still think the short term effect will be price negative but perhaps the overall marketing value will offset it. I think it's a good idea to test the best Airdrop strategy with a non-core DAC and gauge the results from that.
As for being against Invictus doing DAC Air Drops on other cryptos (like, say, DomainShares Air Dropping to Namecoin), I cannot see why investors would not want this. Most investors are intelligent enough to at least somewhat diversify...and the bitshares community will gain a great deal of press for initiatives like these. I am just trying to see the downside(s). All ears on that
SiliconValleyCoin achieved a high of $20 million and is now $1650 (99.9%+ Shareholder loss) AuroraCoin achieved a high of $800 million and is now $1 million... (99%+ Shareholder loss) SpainCoin achieved a high of $80 million and is now $20 000... (99.9% Shareholder loss) MazaCoin achieved a high of $6 million and is now $200 000... (96% Shareholder loss)
Quote from: Empirical1 on June 16, 2014, 01:34:49 amQuote from: bytemaster on June 15, 2014, 02:44:17 amA thought on airdrops... don't give money away, just make it easy to get.For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks. Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTS I was thinking if we did sharedrops, that rather than giving them away they'd have to complete a marketing task and your suggestion sounds great. If there was a way to make them Add/Promote Bitshares on Twitter, or Facebook etc. that could be good too.I also like Sharedrops instead of airdrops.I also like the Easter egg idea, like every Xth download has a much larger amount that gets split between the person that downloaded it and person that referred them. Sharedrops are cool. Now let's talk Dynamicly Adaptive Sharedrops! (Anyone who captures a Delegate spot captures an income "spigot" they can choose to redirect in a thousand different ways ... whatever it takes to capture and retain votes. (So we have created "smart spigots" (controlled by the best and brightest human promoters selected in a Darwinian competition to attract new voters (bitshareholders)))). These "smart spigots" will naturally adapt over time to do what the industry consensus demands. So developers don't really have to brilliantly cast the ideal sharedrop into the genesis block. They just need to make it sufficiently profitable to be a delegate that the best 101 smart spigots just naturally appear.
Quote from: bytemaster on June 15, 2014, 02:44:17 amA thought on airdrops... don't give money away, just make it easy to get.For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks. Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTS I was thinking if we did sharedrops, that rather than giving them away they'd have to complete a marketing task and your suggestion sounds great. If there was a way to make them Add/Promote Bitshares on Twitter, or Facebook etc. that could be good too.I also like Sharedrops instead of airdrops.I also like the Easter egg idea, like every Xth download has a much larger amount that gets split between the person that downloaded it and person that referred them.
A thought on airdrops... don't give money away, just make it easy to get.For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks. Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTS
A thought on airdrops... don't give money away, just make it easy to get.
Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks. Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.
Quote from: donkeypong on June 15, 2014, 03:13:17 amQuote from: bytemaster on June 15, 2014, 02:44:17 amA thought on airdrops... don't give money away, just make it easy to get.For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks. Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTSIn that case, could we just pre-load the wallet or Keyhotee with something? Anyone interested enough to download it would be rewarded. That also might help protect against people doing this multiple times using multiple addresses, e-mails, or whatever you are using to track them. I love referral bonuses; as far as I'm concerned you could go wildly viral that way. Would it be possible to build some standard code for that which DACs could apply?Wasn't this how Elon Musk made PayPal go viral?http://www.quora.com/PayPal/How-did-PayPals-early-viral-growth-work
Quote from: bytemaster on June 15, 2014, 02:44:17 amA thought on airdrops... don't give money away, just make it easy to get.For example: if you 'airdropped' $1 million it helps those who got it, but no one else.Instead you should give a free sample to everyone who asks. Then give them a bonus for everyone they refer who also collects a free sample.Now those who work hard can earn more and bring in NEW people without limit. I think that an airdrop only makes sense for those who have already contributed to the cause: AGS / PTSIn that case, could we just pre-load the wallet or Keyhotee with something? Anyone interested enough to download it would be rewarded. That also might help protect against people doing this multiple times using multiple addresses, e-mails, or whatever you are using to track them. I love referral bonuses; as far as I'm concerned you could go wildly viral that way. Would it be possible to build some standard code for that which DACs could apply?
Quote from: Stan on June 15, 2014, 02:25:56 amYou guys are making great contributions to BitShares Airdrop Theory. What would you add to the brief summary of key concepts I just published here?http://bitshares.org/bitshares-airdrop-theory/Perhaps labeling it "Sharedrops" would be more marketable than Airdrops. Just a suggestion.Airdrop is good for explaining the overall general concept but drop what? Currency? Or shares?From here you would have different types such as coordinated, targeted, randomized, conditional, etc.
You guys are making great contributions to BitShares Airdrop Theory. What would you add to the brief summary of key concepts I just published here?http://bitshares.org/bitshares-airdrop-theory/
...I think most airdrops will end up with people who just dump their shares. The airdrop needs an additional component that at least differentiates the people who care vs the people who will auto-dump. If 80% of the people dump their shares, has the DAC gained value ? (rhetorical question) At first I was more for the idea but as time has went on I've changed my opinion. I like the idea of a random chance, but not one tied into purchases. If there would be a way for a person to have to check to see fi they have received shares and not have them by default. (That means they're at least slightly more motivated given that they're doing something with a possible outcome of 0.. vs guaranteed money given a typical airdrop) So Luckybit's suggestion is good in that it differentiates people who care, but it also is just another way of purchasing shares with a random component. If you could find a way to actually discern motivated investors vs people who will just immediately dump then we'd have a solution....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mnuhs0aklr1l6wl/Blackcoin%20Meet%20Black%20April%2020%202014.pdfOk .. has 25 pages .. my fault
This thread has gotten a bit off-topic, but to answer this, the original reason for posting it was to assess what coins were seen as most valuable to community members and what they have going for them that would make them "air drop worthy".
Guys,I am in favor of air dropping to specific communities according to each dac specifics. Make sense to airdrop name shares to name coin, bitshares to nxt lotto shares to doge or black coin...Regarding bitshares x we should consider airdrop to nxt seriously..I think they are becoming serious competitors and will soon overtake lite coin by the end of the summer. They work with bitshause and we want to work with bitshause as well...we will have to compete with nxt sooner or later head to head..Marketing wise I am thinking that most important than air dropping is someone to make a PDF or ppt professional presentation about all bitshares where everyone can download from the website and distribute it to potential investors outside crypto..We need to start thinking BIG! We need to start separate bitshares from bitcoin and crypto coins. We need professional presentations, with business plans, graphs, analysis that we can show to investors outside crypto who would want to invest in the new evolution of the Internet companies that operate by themselves and make a good ROI..we need to explain to investors how they will make the +5..I can talk all day about bitshares to people and no one will ever visit the website. But I am very confident that if I can show a 10-15 pages presentation I will attract a lot of new investors with big money that will make i3 Dacs explode and we will surpass every competition..I said it a couple of times before and I will say it again..as long as we do not separate ourselves from bitcoin we will always be in the shadow of bitcoin..Of course all this to happen we must have the products ready and really really really friendly user... No investor outside crypto will ever invest in ags..but they will invest once it is easy and profitable..
This thread is to ask for an answer to the questions: "Which coins should DACs honor, and what benefit(s) does honoring their stakeholders/devs potentially give?"
Quote from: luckybit on June 14, 2014, 06:23:14 amThe wealthy would buy more tickets but that wouldn't mean they'd have more winning tickets so it would be statistically fair. You could try to improve your odds by buying more tickets and if you're truly interested in the technology then you'd be encouraged to do that.On the other hand at some point you'd think about the math involved and say it's better to just wait for the DAC to be released and buy the shares on the market because then you'd know exactly how many shares you could get. In this way the elite would be discouraged from trying to buy thousands of lottery tickets when they could just wait and buy the shares later during a dump (if they have patience and truly know the value of the technology).The real demographic we want to benefit are the sort of people who don't have a lot of money and who are not at the top of any blockchain hierarchy. These people hold some small stake in Bitcoin and they want the chance to hold a large stake in a next generation technology.I believe that is the demographic to market to with the lottery idea. These individuals would buy the tickets and some of them will legitimately be made rich. Some will become rich and dump which will allow the people who really wanted the shares to grab them up but in other cases these people would hold and become long term stakeholders to promote not only DPoS but the lottery process.It's basically the rags to riches meme played out on the blockchain. Also it's the anti-elitist meme as well because everyone has a fair chance in the Airdrop rather than reinforcing whatever went wrong to centralize Bitcoin or Litecoin. I think PoS is an exception because the only way to get PoS is to buy it or in the case of Blackcoin you could mine it. But even then it's promoting the advance of technology because it's still PoS so it's worth rewarding for that purpose in my opinion. In the end, the # of shares will be proportional to the amount of capital spent. It is that simple. I've proposed various ways to make it considerably more egalitarian if that is the goal. No point in repeating them here though. Perhaps a rehash when DACs are being released.
The wealthy would buy more tickets but that wouldn't mean they'd have more winning tickets so it would be statistically fair. You could try to improve your odds by buying more tickets and if you're truly interested in the technology then you'd be encouraged to do that.On the other hand at some point you'd think about the math involved and say it's better to just wait for the DAC to be released and buy the shares on the market because then you'd know exactly how many shares you could get. In this way the elite would be discouraged from trying to buy thousands of lottery tickets when they could just wait and buy the shares later during a dump (if they have patience and truly know the value of the technology).The real demographic we want to benefit are the sort of people who don't have a lot of money and who are not at the top of any blockchain hierarchy. These people hold some small stake in Bitcoin and they want the chance to hold a large stake in a next generation technology.I believe that is the demographic to market to with the lottery idea. These individuals would buy the tickets and some of them will legitimately be made rich. Some will become rich and dump which will allow the people who really wanted the shares to grab them up but in other cases these people would hold and become long term stakeholders to promote not only DPoS but the lottery process.It's basically the rags to riches meme played out on the blockchain. Also it's the anti-elitist meme as well because everyone has a fair chance in the Airdrop rather than reinforcing whatever went wrong to centralize Bitcoin or Litecoin. I think PoS is an exception because the only way to get PoS is to buy it or in the case of Blackcoin you could mine it. But even then it's promoting the advance of technology because it's still PoS so it's worth rewarding for that purpose in my opinion.
Quote from: luckybit on June 14, 2014, 06:00:18 amThe way I would Airdrop to PoW communities is to create a lottery and make them mine for it by buying lottery tickets (similar to AGS only with no predictability or guarantee beyond a minimum amount). The total amount they could win would be random but within a certain range of say 100-10,000 shares per ticket.Then let everyone just buy these tickets and hold onto them. On the snapshot date then people who have more of these tickets have a higher probability of getting a larger stake but it's not guaranteed. Ultimately it should be random enough that someone could buy 1 ticket and get 10,000 shares while another person could buy 100 tickets and get 10,000 shares. It wouldn't matter if someone was an early adopter or elite of Litecoin because anyone else would have just as good of a chance to become an elite in the new chain. This would be critical in my opinion because we don't want to recreate the elite from a PoW chain onto a DPoS chain when they never liked DPoS. It would be like giving all of the Bitcoin stakes to the central banks and people who made fun of Bitcoin or who said it was evil.It is interesting reading the whole explanation of your plan. I do have to wonder how the economics of the split currency would work. Blackcoin isn't going to be abandoned and to outsiders the split coins will just look like a money grab for no real reason. People say 'the market will sort it out'... but will it sort it out in a way that actually makes Bitshares look good ?As far as the above idea, all you are doing is recreating purchasing shares through capital but adding a gambling element to it. Everything else being equal, the wealthy would just end up buying more tickets. Not sure how this approach does anything in regards to preventing the 'elite' from having power.
The way I would Airdrop to PoW communities is to create a lottery and make them mine for it by buying lottery tickets (similar to AGS only with no predictability or guarantee beyond a minimum amount). The total amount they could win would be random but within a certain range of say 100-10,000 shares per ticket.Then let everyone just buy these tickets and hold onto them. On the snapshot date then people who have more of these tickets have a higher probability of getting a larger stake but it's not guaranteed. Ultimately it should be random enough that someone could buy 1 ticket and get 10,000 shares while another person could buy 100 tickets and get 10,000 shares. It wouldn't matter if someone was an early adopter or elite of Litecoin because anyone else would have just as good of a chance to become an elite in the new chain. This would be critical in my opinion because we don't want to recreate the elite from a PoW chain onto a DPoS chain when they never liked DPoS. It would be like giving all of the Bitcoin stakes to the central banks and people who made fun of Bitcoin or who said it was evil.
Quote from: luckybit on June 14, 2014, 05:11:15 amThe whole Blackshares crypto-merger idea was based on some thinking I had about economic allegiances a while ago. The idea was solidified when I had a private conversation with someone else who was talking about crypto-mergers and BlackDoge. I thought BlackDoge was good marketing but the technologies didn't pair up as well as what Blackshares could be.The point is that PoS communities share an interest and should begin merging chains so that all PoS communities can update to the best technology (DPoS). The way to get this to happen is to approach every PoS community which reaches a certain market cap, volume, and has a vibrant community, and do what I tried to do for the Blackcoin community.Offer to make a "shares" franchise for their community. Offer 50/50 split. Offer to have developers in our community make the fork for them and handle everything. All they have to do is market and (sell) the technology in their community.The result was supposed to be that DPoS would become the default technology for Proof of Stake communities until something better. Blackcoin needs to update it's technology to DPoS so it was a perfect strategic opportunity and still is to approach them offering to make a Blackshares franchise for them. Even if you don't get their permission someone from our community should use the Bitshares toolkit to make Blackshares and split it 50/50 between communities just to protect our own community from hostile forks.So I'm still promoting the idea that the best marketing strategy we can have is to convert every altcoin community we can to DPoS and split it 50/50. This would benefit us and them because we'd have more volume to every chain and they'd have better technology.But I do not advocate doing it with just random coins or with Proof of Work. It should be targeted and there should be a method to our madness even if to the outside it seems random. The effect this could have (these Airdrops) could be to make people who have PoS coins hold onto them in hopes that there will be Airdrops. That could benefit the adoption of PoS as a whole as we don't Airdrop to communities who have values which promote inflation but to the communities which promote deflation.That would mean no Airdrop to Freicoin, Litecoin, Bitcoin, unless they convert to Proof of Stake.If we don't do things like this, someone will, and they will benefit greatly from sitting at the head of the round table with all those loyal "altcoin" knights
The whole Blackshares crypto-merger idea was based on some thinking I had about economic allegiances a while ago. The idea was solidified when I had a private conversation with someone else who was talking about crypto-mergers and BlackDoge. I thought BlackDoge was good marketing but the technologies didn't pair up as well as what Blackshares could be.The point is that PoS communities share an interest and should begin merging chains so that all PoS communities can update to the best technology (DPoS). The way to get this to happen is to approach every PoS community which reaches a certain market cap, volume, and has a vibrant community, and do what I tried to do for the Blackcoin community.Offer to make a "shares" franchise for their community. Offer 50/50 split. Offer to have developers in our community make the fork for them and handle everything. All they have to do is market and (sell) the technology in their community.The result was supposed to be that DPoS would become the default technology for Proof of Stake communities until something better. Blackcoin needs to update it's technology to DPoS so it was a perfect strategic opportunity and still is to approach them offering to make a Blackshares franchise for them. Even if you don't get their permission someone from our community should use the Bitshares toolkit to make Blackshares and split it 50/50 between communities just to protect our own community from hostile forks.So I'm still promoting the idea that the best marketing strategy we can have is to convert every altcoin community we can to DPoS and split it 50/50. This would benefit us and them because we'd have more volume to every chain and they'd have better technology.But I do not advocate doing it with just random coins or with Proof of Work. It should be targeted and there should be a method to our madness even if to the outside it seems random. The effect this could have (these Airdrops) could be to make people who have PoS coins hold onto them in hopes that there will be Airdrops. That could benefit the adoption of PoS as a whole as we don't Airdrop to communities who have values which promote inflation but to the communities which promote deflation.That would mean no Airdrop to Freicoin, Litecoin, Bitcoin, unless they convert to Proof of Stake.
I was also against Blackcoin airdrop, but I always understood the proposal to be in the form of a "charity airdrop" of a DAC's shares. I didn't think it was about recreating the coin for them. I don't care about recreating their coin and it doesn't make sense given they are already POS.I just don't think they're particularly special or deserving as far as an airdrop. Since there are no DACs I am not sure why a few opinions on the forums even mattered as it couldn't happen at the time and wouldn't need Blackcoin's permission anyway to do the airdrop. I'm confused.Luckybit - How was the Blackcoin community meeting held? Is the meeting recorded somewhere ? What format do they use for such thing ? IRC ? Forums ?
Quote from: donkeypong on June 13, 2014, 10:42:24 pmI would airdrop for all the DACs, choosing a demographic or two that would be likely to value a stake in the success of each one. It would cost us almost nothing and give us a ton of free marketing, ultimately a far better chance of building a big initial buzz to get these things off the ground the right way. Then again, every time this airdrop idea comes up in the forums, it seems like the first round or two of posters supports it and then there is a decidedly anti-drop force that appears to sink the suggestion. So I don't know what to say, other than that "If we build it, they will come" worked in a movie. When the DACs start to make money, we'll have no shortage of interest in them, but that initial success depends upon getting more stakeholders involved. If we're not going to air-drop, then what are some other suggestions for marketing? I know a lot of people around here are very talented at coding (for which I am thankful, since I know nothing about it). Do you also trust yourselves to spread the word to new and diverse sectors of the market, sufficiently to ensure Bitshares' success? If so, tell me what's going to be any cheaper and more successful than an air drop? I think this is an important opportunity to expand the base.I agree with your points...especially considering that most of ags funds are for development. Sadly, it seems that most the community is not infavor of "air drops" by invictus. Fortunately that is not keeping us or anyone else from recreating a DAC and honoring PTS/AGS along with another coin or two...and letting the coin communities compete for the most valuable DAC version.
I would airdrop for all the DACs, choosing a demographic or two that would be likely to value a stake in the success of each one. It would cost us almost nothing and give us a ton of free marketing, ultimately a far better chance of building a big initial buzz to get these things off the ground the right way. Then again, every time this airdrop idea comes up in the forums, it seems like the first round or two of posters supports it and then there is a decidedly anti-drop force that appears to sink the suggestion. So I don't know what to say, other than that "If we build it, they will come" worked in a movie. When the DACs start to make money, we'll have no shortage of interest in them, but that initial success depends upon getting more stakeholders involved. If we're not going to air-drop, then what are some other suggestions for marketing? I know a lot of people around here are very talented at coding (for which I am thankful, since I know nothing about it). Do you also trust yourselves to spread the word to new and diverse sectors of the market, sufficiently to ensure Bitshares' success? If so, tell me what's going to be any cheaper and more successful than an air drop? I think this is an important opportunity to expand the base.
Quote from: Stan on June 13, 2014, 12:19:39 amQuote from: Empirical1 on June 12, 2014, 09:46:06 pmIn terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved 80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.) So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0 I think that could have some potential.If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack... The Blackcoin community seemed interested. I even convinced the community manager to post here. The Bitshares community wasn't interested at the time though.Eventually I got around 60% of the forum to get on board. The community manager had a meeting with the Blackcoin community and I haven't heard from him since. Now they have BlackHalo but I really think Blackshares could be better than that.And they are the type of community to actually trade and hold. They aren't like Doge who will give it all away in tips or like Bitcoiners who will spend more because they have to pay mining expenses or because they have no real incentive to save.
Quote from: Empirical1 on June 12, 2014, 09:46:06 pmIn terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved 80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.) So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0 I think that could have some potential.If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack...
In terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved 80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.) So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0 I think that could have some potential.
I like the multi-pool to BC payout idea, their new dump defence & the Blackcard thing is interesting and I would probably agree that their marketing is above average. I've made good money riding the pumps and dumps so far, however given that 80%+ of BlackCoin's volume still comes from Mintpal, I'm not sure if they've had much success in developing a community outside the alt-coin miners?& IMO alt-coin miners aren't really a community but more like a plague of locusts. They've put many mining pools over the 51% hashrate barrier. Even Bitcoin pools have had to increase their fees (BTC Guild) or stop new people joining their pool (Ghash.io) in the past to get their hashrates down. To me this shows alt-coin miners are the least 'community like' group out there. They don't even care if they kill their host in the process of swarming onto the most profitable coin or mining pool of the hour. (So the majority of BlackCoin holders are the antithesis of us and probably not a community we want to airdrop AGS directly too though I'm not completely against some other form of alliance.) I also therefore think that attracting alt-coin miners has little to do with marketing and more to do with just being the current most profitable alternative. Unfortunately BlackCoin may have a limited shelf life in that respect, once it starts hitting 50-100 million, the alt-coin miners will likely be more profitable moving onto a lower CAP POS where their volume flow moves their share price more.
Quote from: Empirical1 on June 13, 2014, 03:19:42 amQuote from: gamey on June 13, 2014, 12:58:42 amQuote from: Stan on June 13, 2014, 12:19:39 amQuote from: Empirical1 on June 12, 2014, 09:46:06 pmIn terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved 80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.) So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0 I think that could have some potential.If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack... The gift of technological improvement ? Of owning a coin without constant downward price pressure ? HmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmIt's a good point Stan, maybe Litecoin 2.0 might sound a bit threatening.However in general if you are offering improvements and people are keeping almost the same % share as they already own in the new coin it should be received quite well.With NEM for example which was a NXT clone that aimed to have better distribution.As people were able to get a stake for free and therefore replicate some of their NXT position. It was 'generally' received quite well. I think it was also doing quite nicely CAP wise till a recent scandal, despite not really solving the issues it set out to and despite being listed on the NXT asset exchange, (the coin it was initially improving on.)So all in all a coin that represents a real improvement for users and lets them replicate their existing % stake for free should do ok imo.Getting the support/blessing of key devs on target coins could smooth the process too.I could see some anonymous dev releasing ltc 2.0 with DPOS along with a 80/20 stake between ltc/pts/ags and a timeline projecting the amount of time it will take for the original ltc holders to be "made whole" from the dividends
Quote from: gamey on June 13, 2014, 12:58:42 amQuote from: Stan on June 13, 2014, 12:19:39 amQuote from: Empirical1 on June 12, 2014, 09:46:06 pmIn terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved 80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.) So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0 I think that could have some potential.If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack... The gift of technological improvement ? Of owning a coin without constant downward price pressure ? HmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmIt's a good point Stan, maybe Litecoin 2.0 might sound a bit threatening.However in general if you are offering improvements and people are keeping almost the same % share as they already own in the new coin it should be received quite well.With NEM for example which was a NXT clone that aimed to have better distribution.As people were able to get a stake for free and therefore replicate some of their NXT position. It was 'generally' received quite well. I think it was also doing quite nicely CAP wise till a recent scandal, despite not really solving the issues it set out to and despite being listed on the NXT asset exchange, (the coin it was initially improving on.)So all in all a coin that represents a real improvement for users and lets them replicate their existing % stake for free should do ok imo.Getting the support/blessing of key devs on target coins could smooth the process too.
Quote from: Stan on June 13, 2014, 12:19:39 amQuote from: Empirical1 on June 12, 2014, 09:46:06 pmIn terms of other Airdrops. It must have been suggested before but what about making DAC's that replicate the exact features of certain coins but with DPOS and other benefits. Then we give existing holders of the coin we just improved 80% equity. (20% for Bitshares.) So it would be 'Litecoin 2.0' for example. People would have almost the same % equity as they did in Litecoin 1.0 I think that could have some potential.If you can present it to them as a gift and not an attack... The gift of technological improvement ? Of owning a coin without constant downward price pressure ? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Quote from: Empirical1 on June 12, 2014, 06:21:56 pmYeah I'm generally against airdrops too, as I think they will mainly just create downward pressure on price, it's like giving away free money, people will just spend it.However given our marketing problem and declining growth/distribution trend, I'm starting to think it could be worth a try. With something like 'LottoShares with big charity component'.I think by giving Doge 50% and essentially giving them ownership of it that a) A Bitshares DAC gets Doge marketing team and b) Dogecoin users will be less inclined to sell. (With 50/50 they hurt themselves just as much selling their stakes as they hurt Bitshares holders, while with a 90/10 split they can essentially sell their stake at the expense of Bitshares holders who will be longer more faithful supporters of Bitshares linked DAC's)I'm also inclined to think a lotto DAC giving less away to charity (and therefore more back to players) will be more successful so airdropping a charity lotto DAC is something I'm less attached to and willing to experiment with airdropping - that is something a lot of the main members on this forum are big supporters of.Edit: I even think branding it DogeLotto or something is even an option.The downward pressure vs the free marketing is a very good discussion to have. You should show up Saturday mornings for the mumble session. We can use guys like you with a lot of insight outside the technical aspects.*note* I do not know how the lotto DAC works. I am making assumptions below.There is also the issue of large volatility. If everyone in the airdrop gambles with their shares and it ends up in the hands of one person who does not want to be a longterm holder. What happens if the winner just dumps all their shares ? I mean the price will likely be a roller coaster and after being down really low, will people want to buy it ? We are in such unchartered areas. With a prize structure like a all or nothing lottery, you're going to REALLY screw with the market. I should post this in the gaming section I suppose...
Yeah I'm generally against airdrops too, as I think they will mainly just create downward pressure on price, it's like giving away free money, people will just spend it.However given our marketing problem and declining growth/distribution trend, I'm starting to think it could be worth a try. With something like 'LottoShares with big charity component'.I think by giving Doge 50% and essentially giving them ownership of it that a) A Bitshares DAC gets Doge marketing team and b) Dogecoin users will be less inclined to sell. (With 50/50 they hurt themselves just as much selling their stakes as they hurt Bitshares holders, while with a 90/10 split they can essentially sell their stake at the expense of Bitshares holders who will be longer more faithful supporters of Bitshares linked DAC's)I'm also inclined to think a lotto DAC giving less away to charity (and therefore more back to players) will be more successful so airdropping a charity lotto DAC is something I'm less attached to and willing to experiment with airdropping - that is something a lot of the main members on this forum are big supporters of.Edit: I even think branding it DogeLotto or something is even an option.
Quote from: Empirical1 on June 12, 2014, 04:37:55 pmQuote from: xeroc on June 12, 2014, 03:57:08 pm .. although i dont see bitshares at a near-failure considering most recent development and in what short time the devs developed towards the first test chains ... imho ... still in 100% t(h)rust mode No I don't see Bitshares at near-failure either. I think it's got the best technical talent in the field. I have complete faith in Bytemaster to deliver the best products and adapt/adjust where necessary. I don't think anyone can compete with him/Bitshares. The conundrum though is that awareness and interest in this field is exploding. NXT, XCP and Ethereum are really generating a lot of buzz while Bitshares is in the doldrums. Although the technical delays are a contributing factor, I think Bitshares forum history metrics speak for themselves. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=stats . (3200 new members in March, 1800 April, 1600 May, 1100 at current rates for June - Point to a downward trend when our rivals growth is exploding.)The fact that >50% of people (Who are Bitshares supporters) think that the website is average at best https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4712.0 and our failure to help market the Lottoshares snapshot that just took place in any meaningful way stick out at me. So my issue is just with Bitshares marketing. I highlighted it as the weak point a few months ago but since then have refrained from complaining too much as it would be counter-productive. As it stands, I'm still incredibly confident in my current Bitshares investment. However I would invest double the amount if I had confidence in the marketing. With only 30+ days of AGS issuance left I think I should speak up, because i3 may be getting much less exposure and funding because other investors have the same concerns I do. We're all ears if you have specific, actionable suggestions!
Quote from: xeroc on June 12, 2014, 03:57:08 pm .. although i dont see bitshares at a near-failure considering most recent development and in what short time the devs developed towards the first test chains ... imho ... still in 100% t(h)rust mode No I don't see Bitshares at near-failure either. I think it's got the best technical talent in the field. I have complete faith in Bytemaster to deliver the best products and adapt/adjust where necessary. I don't think anyone can compete with him/Bitshares. The conundrum though is that awareness and interest in this field is exploding. NXT, XCP and Ethereum are really generating a lot of buzz while Bitshares is in the doldrums. Although the technical delays are a contributing factor, I think Bitshares forum history metrics speak for themselves. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=stats . (3200 new members in March, 1800 April, 1600 May, 1100 at current rates for June - Point to a downward trend when our rivals growth is exploding.)The fact that >50% of people (Who are Bitshares supporters) think that the website is average at best https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4712.0 and our failure to help market the Lottoshares snapshot that just took place in any meaningful way stick out at me. So my issue is just with Bitshares marketing. I highlighted it as the weak point a few months ago but since then have refrained from complaining too much as it would be counter-productive. As it stands, I'm still incredibly confident in my current Bitshares investment. However I would invest double the amount if I had confidence in the marketing. With only 30+ days of AGS issuance left I think I should speak up, because i3 may be getting much less exposure and funding because other investors have the same concerns I do.
.. although i dont see bitshares at a near-failure considering most recent development and in what short time the devs developed towards the first test chains ... imho ... still in 100% t(h)rust mode
Quote from: Empirical1 on June 12, 2014, 04:37:55 pmNo I don't see Bitshares at near-failure either. I think it's got the best technical talent in the field. I have complete faith in Bytemaster to deliver the best products and adapt/adjust where necessary. I don't think anyone can compete with him/Bitshares. The conundrum though is that awareness and interest in this field is exploding. NXT, XCP and Ethereum are really generating a lot of buzz while Bitshares is in the doldrums. Although the technical delays are a contributing factor, I think Bitshares forum history metrics speak for themselves. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=stats . (3200 new members in March, 1800 April, 1600 May, 1100 at current rates for June - Point to a downward trend when our rivals growth is exploding.)The fact that >50% of people (Who are Bitshares supporters) think that the website is average at best https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4712.0 and our failure to help market the Lottoshares snapshot that just took place in any meaningful way stick out at me. So my issue is just with Bitshares marketing. I highlighted it as the weak point a few months ago but since then have refrained from complaining too much as it would be counter-productive. As it stands, I'm still incredibly confident in my current Bitshares investment. However I would invest double the amount if I had confidence in the marketing. With only 30+ days of AGS issuance left I think I should speak up, because i3 may be getting much less exposure and funding because other investors have the same concerns I do. I do agree the points here. I can see the forum volume going down tremendously in the past several months, and we have like 1-2 new active members per day compared to beginning of the year (30-40/day). Even the XTS test did not attract new members. It is not a good sign as we are getting close to a release and end of AGS donation.From the news I read. Ethereum are having lots of local meetings globally. Counterparty team traveled to Silicon Valley to promote the product. Maidsafe had more than 500 devs signed up to participate the project. NTX AE are having close to 100 assets now and is the first choice for new projects now. I agree we are in the doldrums. And the new website can not even satisfy the current users. We need some modification in the marketing strategy.Airdrop might be a solution here, but I don't think it will help much. Since the 50/50 promise for XTS allocation, the only thing we can airdrop is the XTS from PTS that in the AGS fund. If people never heard of bitshares before, we can't expect too much from the ~7% airdrop. And it may even cause a huge sell without good marketing. Lottoshares is supposed to be a good news, but even the PTS community are not fully aware of it.Same to Empirical1, I have faith and confidence in Dan and whole dev team. But before we have adjusted the marketing strategy, I disagree with the airdrop, although Stan has stated several time that airdrop will happen.
No I don't see Bitshares at near-failure either. I think it's got the best technical talent in the field. I have complete faith in Bytemaster to deliver the best products and adapt/adjust where necessary. I don't think anyone can compete with him/Bitshares. The conundrum though is that awareness and interest in this field is exploding. NXT, XCP and Ethereum are really generating a lot of buzz while Bitshares is in the doldrums. Although the technical delays are a contributing factor, I think Bitshares forum history metrics speak for themselves. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=stats . (3200 new members in March, 1800 April, 1600 May, 1100 at current rates for June - Point to a downward trend when our rivals growth is exploding.)The fact that >50% of people (Who are Bitshares supporters) think that the website is average at best https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4712.0 and our failure to help market the Lottoshares snapshot that just took place in any meaningful way stick out at me. So my issue is just with Bitshares marketing. I highlighted it as the weak point a few months ago but since then have refrained from complaining too much as it would be counter-productive. As it stands, I'm still incredibly confident in my current Bitshares investment. However I would invest double the amount if I had confidence in the marketing. With only 30+ days of AGS issuance left I think I should speak up, because i3 may be getting much less exposure and funding because other investors have the same concerns I do.
Airdrop might be a solution here, but I don't think it will help much. Since the 50/50 promise for XTS allocation, the only thing we can airdrop is the XTS from PTS that in the AGS fund. If people never heard of bitshares before, we can't expect too much from the ~7% airdrop. And it may even cause a huge sell without good marketing. Lottoshares is supposed to be a good news, but even the PTS community are not fully aware of it.Same to Empirical1, I have faith and confidence in Dan and whole dev team. But before we have adjusted the marketing strategy, I disagree with the airdrop, although Stan has stated several time that airdrop will happen.
+ LottoShares / BitShares Lotto may consider honoring Dogecoin (for their charity community)
"Which coins should DACs honor, and what benefit(s) does honoring their stakeholders/devs potentially give?"