Or why not 1000. This way the dev's can make $5K+ per month instead of the current $1100/mo. This was the entire reason for increasing delegate pay in the first place. $1100 per month is not a living wage in any 1st world country.
There is no possible way this could make the market cap fall anymore right? I mean the current depressed price and unpairing from btc had nothing to do with devs selling their bts income. This way the devs get more money and everyone else can continue to wait. But at least the devs wont walk away.
I know this is one of your jab posts but,
$1100/month is a good combination of not depressing the market cap *too much*, and motivating the developers to work hard to increase the market cap so they can earn the money deserve.
Also is there any real risk of the core developers walking away now? They all just received 5million BTS each, which could be worth loads IFF the product is polished and actually gets used.
Or why not 1000. This way the dev's can make $5K+ per month instead of the current $1100/mo. This was the entire reason for increasing delegate pay in the first place. $1100 per month is not a living wage in any 1st world country.
There is no possible way this could make the market cap fall anymore right? I mean the current depressed price and unpairing from btc had nothing to do with devs selling their bts income. This way the devs get more money and everyone else can continue to wait. But at least the devs wont walk away.
I know this is one of your jab posts but,
$1100/month is a good combination of not depressing the market cap *too much*, and motivating the developers to work hard to increase the market cap so they can earn the money deserve.
Also is there any real risk of the core developers walking away now? They all just received 5million BTS each, which could be worth loads IFF the product is polished and actually gets used.
Or why not 1000. This way the dev's can make $5K+ per month instead of the current $1100/mo. This was the entire reason for increasing delegate pay in the first place. $1100 per month is not a living wage in any 1st world country.
There is no possible way this could make the market cap fall anymore right? I mean the current depressed price and unpairing from btc had nothing to do with devs selling their bts income. This way the devs get more money and everyone else can continue to wait. But at least the devs wont walk away.
I know this is one of your jab posts but,
$1100/month is a good combination of not depressing the market cap *too much*, and motivating the developers to work hard to increase the market cap so they can earn the money deserve.
Also is there any real risk of the core developers walking away now? They all just received 5million BTS each, which could be worth loads IFF the product is polished and actually gets used.
The risk of developers walking has nothing do with getting paid enough and everything to do with minimizing the chance that BM accidentally destroys any wealth we create again. I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.
Or why not 1000. This way the dev's can make $5K+ per month instead of the current $1100/mo. This was the entire reason for increasing delegate pay in the first place. $1100 per month is not a living wage in any 1st world country.
There is no possible way this could make the market cap fall anymore right? I mean the current depressed price and unpairing from btc had nothing to do with devs selling their bts income. This way the devs get more money and everyone else can continue to wait. But at least the devs wont walk away.
I know this is one of your jab posts but,
$1100/month is a good combination of not depressing the market cap *too much*, and motivating the developers to work hard to increase the market cap so they can earn the money deserve.
Also is there any real risk of the core developers walking away now? They all just received 5million BTS each, which could be worth loads IFF the product is polished and actually gets used.
The risk of developers walking has nothing do with getting paid enough and everything to do with minimizing the chance that BM accidentally destroys any wealth we create again. I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.
Toast:
You are an extraordinarily talented person. Hard working and honest.
Unfortunately you have all the arrogance of youth.
Your posts are almost always thoughtful, generous and helpful. But on rare occasion they demonstrate hubris and have been as detrimental as anything Bytemaster has ever done. Please work out your frustrations with him and/or other team members in private. Or bring them up in a Mumble session that you all attend. Posting this here you are needlessly contributing to Newmine's agenda and negatively affecting our investments in this project.
Toast:
You are an extraordinarily talented person. Hard working and honest.
Unfortunately you have all the arrogance of youth.
Your posts are almost always thoughtful, generous and helpful. But on rare occasion they demonstrate hubris and have been as detrimental as anything Bytemaster has ever done. Please work out your frustrations with him and/or other team members in private. Or bring them up in a Mumble session that you all attend. Posting this here you are needlessly contributing to Newmine's agenda and negatively affecting our investments in this project.
I don't want to discourage Toast, since he's a good and talented guy, but I agree with this statement. From the positive perspective, Toast has a great potential to be a greater person.
Or why not 1000. This way the dev's can make $5K+ per month instead of the current $1100/mo. This was the entire reason for increasing delegate pay in the first place. $1100 per month is not a living wage in any 1st world country.
There is no possible way this could make the market cap fall anymore right? I mean the current depressed price and unpairing from btc had nothing to do with devs selling their bts income. This way the devs get more money and everyone else can continue to wait. But at least the devs wont walk away.
I know this is one of your jab posts but,
$1100/month is a good combination of not depressing the market cap *too much*, and motivating the developers to work hard to increase the market cap so they can earn the money deserve.
Also is there any real risk of the core developers walking away now? They all just received 5million BTS each, which could be worth loads IFF the product is polished and actually gets used.
The risk of developers walking has nothing do with getting paid enough and everything to do with minimizing the chance that BM accidentally destroys any wealth we create again. I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.
They all had decent holdings before the last Dev airdrop.Or why not 1000. This way the dev's can make $5K+ per month instead of the current $1100/mo. This was the entire reason for increasing delegate pay in the first place. $1100 per month is not a living wage in any 1st world country.
There is no possible way this could make the market cap fall anymore right? I mean the current depressed price and unpairing from btc had nothing to do with devs selling their bts income. This way the devs get more money and everyone else can continue to wait. But at least the devs wont walk away.
I know this is one of your jab posts but,
$1100/month is a good combination of not depressing the market cap *too much*, and motivating the developers to work hard to increase the market cap so they can earn the money deserve.
Also is there any real risk of the core developers walking away now? They all just received 5million BTS each, which could be worth loads IFF the product is polished and actually gets used.
wtf Stan?It's been a long time comin'
It's goin' to be a long time gone
And it appears to be a long night
Before the dawnCrosby, Stills and Nash - Long Time Gone
I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.My interpretation of what Toast is saying is in part that the "governance" of the DAC isn't working as efficiently as it could be and that can hurt value. For instance, he's been pushing the importance of "proposals" or other stake weighted polling for a while (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14043.0). I tend to agree and have argued that good stake polling is pretty crucial.
wtf Stan?It's been a long time comin'
It's goin' to be a long time gone
And it appears to be a long night
Before the dawnCrosby, Stills and Nash - Long Time Gone
You have a knack for nonsense.
When you see the Southern Cross for the first time
You understand now why you came this way
'Cause the truth you might be runnin' from is so small
But it's as big as the promise, the promise of a comin' day
Crosby, Stills and Nash - Souther Cross
You should take your pay. You earned it.Or why not 1000. This way the dev's can make $5K+ per month instead of the current $1100/mo. This was the entire reason for increasing delegate pay in the first place. $1100 per month is not a living wage in any 1st world country.
There is no possible way this could make the market cap fall anymore right? I mean the current depressed price and unpairing from btc had nothing to do with devs selling their bts income. This way the devs get more money and everyone else can continue to wait. But at least the devs wont walk away.
I know this is one of your jab posts but,
$1100/month is a good combination of not depressing the market cap *too much*, and motivating the developers to work hard to increase the market cap so they can earn the money deserve.
Also is there any real risk of the core developers walking away now? They all just received 5million BTS each, which could be worth loads IFF the product is polished and actually gets used.
The risk of developers walking has nothing do with getting paid enough and everything to do with minimizing the chance that BM accidentally destroys any wealth we create again. I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.
You should take your pay. You earned it.Or why not 1000. This way the dev's can make $5K+ per month instead of the current $1100/mo. This was the entire reason for increasing delegate pay in the first place. $1100 per month is not a living wage in any 1st world country.
There is no possible way this could make the market cap fall anymore right? I mean the current depressed price and unpairing from btc had nothing to do with devs selling their bts income. This way the devs get more money and everyone else can continue to wait. But at least the devs wont walk away.
I know this is one of your jab posts but,
$1100/month is a good combination of not depressing the market cap *too much*, and motivating the developers to work hard to increase the market cap so they can earn the money deserve.
Also is there any real risk of the core developers walking away now? They all just received 5million BTS each, which could be worth loads IFF the product is polished and actually gets used.
The risk of developers walking has nothing do with getting paid enough and everything to do with minimizing the chance that BM accidentally destroys any wealth we create again. I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.
Although,
It looks like you have withdrawn 366,941 BTS out of a total 367,895 BTS paid to your 100% delegate. Can you clarify what you mean? http://bitsharesblocks.com/delegates/delegate?name=dev0.nikolai
I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.My interpretation of what Toast is saying is in part that the "governance" of the DAC isn't working as efficiently as it could be and that can hurt value. For instance, he's been pushing the importance of "proposals" or other stake weighted polling for a while (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14043.0). I tend to agree and have argued that good stake polling is pretty crucial.
I think some people were turned off by the "merger" not so much because the idea of a merger was bad but simply because it appeared that Dan had the power to unilaterally change the rules and create more shares. If the same decision was made after a fairly perceived stake weighted poll was conducted the whole thing may have been perceived differently. Same goes for conflating delegates with workers; there is FUD in regards to how easily dilution happens. I've tended to think having a high bar of 50% approval of active shares for dilution would be perceived better even if it took a lot of work to get there, especially because dilution was controversial and not in the original design.
You should take your pay. You earned it.Or why not 1000. This way the dev's can make $5K+ per month instead of the current $1100/mo. This was the entire reason for increasing delegate pay in the first place. $1100 per month is not a living wage in any 1st world country.
There is no possible way this could make the market cap fall anymore right? I mean the current depressed price and unpairing from btc had nothing to do with devs selling their bts income. This way the devs get more money and everyone else can continue to wait. But at least the devs wont walk away.
I know this is one of your jab posts but,
$1100/month is a good combination of not depressing the market cap *too much*, and motivating the developers to work hard to increase the market cap so they can earn the money deserve.
Also is there any real risk of the core developers walking away now? They all just received 5million BTS each, which could be worth loads IFF the product is polished and actually gets used.
The risk of developers walking has nothing do with getting paid enough and everything to do with minimizing the chance that BM accidentally destroys any wealth we create again. I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.
Although,
It looks like you have withdrawn 366,941 BTS out of a total 367,895 BTS paid to your 100% delegate. Can you clarify what you mean? http://bitsharesblocks.com/delegates/delegate?name=dev0.nikolai
Should have said "going forward" / "from now on". I withdrew all pay today to mark the end of the for-myself period and the start of the for-cass/valentine era. Perhaps I should take out the last week out of my pay also since I started working on Music stuff about a week ago, what do you think?
I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.My interpretation of what Toast is saying is in part that the "governance" of the DAC isn't working as efficiently as it could be and that can hurt value. For instance, he's been pushing the importance of "proposals" or other stake weighted polling for a while (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14043.0). I tend to agree and have argued that good stake polling is pretty crucial.
I think some people were turned off by the "merger" not so much because the idea of a merger was bad but simply because it appeared that Dan had the power to unilaterally change the rules and create more shares. If the same decision was made after a fairly perceived stake weighted poll was conducted the whole thing may have been perceived differently. Same goes for conflating delegates with workers; there is FUD in regards to how easily dilution happens. I've tended to think having a high bar of 50% approval of active shares for dilution would be perceived better even if it took a lot of work to get there, especially because dilution was controversial and not in the original design.
Wasn't that the bread and butter of the "Killer VOTE DAC"? A built in blockchain voting mechanism? Perhaps what was sold to everyone as the "DAC killer" should've been developed first. That way everyone could have immediately seen what was being sold to us through a merger was in fact legit and worth it. Now all we got is a "Crutch DAC" missing one of its legs (DNS) and it's spinal cord (VOTE supposedly).
VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund. (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)
Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.
VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund. (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)
That sounds about right. And as it should be. What is the point of screwing around with low value (and difficult, time-wise, to establish) services like VOTE and DNS when the cash cow (BitAssets) are apparently not even yet ready to gain adoption?Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.
I'm curious why you think proposals are a huge priority? By the way, are you talking about binding proposals that allocated diluted pay directly, or improving the client-side features of the delegate slate negative int hack for non-binding proposals which inform everyone (particularly the delegates) of what the shareholders want and thus allow the delegates to direct funds captured from the existing delegate pay system to make those proposals happen?
Either way, it doesn't seem like it should be a priority at the moment. People would use the proposals to all say the same thing: we need a stable lightweight wallet, we need liquid bridges, we need a lightweight wallet with exchange support. Until then, there is little hope for BTS price to recover, which means there is little hope in having enough resources to pay for the development of any other proposals the shareholders could possibly want.
VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund. (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)
That sounds about right. And as it should be. What is the point of screwing around with low value (and difficult, time-wise, to establish) services like VOTE and DNS when the cash cow (BitAssets) are apparently not even yet ready to gain adoption?Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.
I'm curious why you think proposals are a huge priority? By the way, are you talking about binding proposals that allocated diluted pay directly, or improving the client-side features of the delegate slate negative int hack for non-binding proposals which inform everyone (particularly the delegates) of what the shareholders want and thus allow the delegates to direct funds captured from the existing delegate pay system to make those proposals happen?
Either way, it doesn't seem like it should be a priority at the moment. People would use the proposals to all say the same thing: we need a stable lightweight wallet, we need liquid bridges, we need a lightweight wallet with exchange support. Until then, there is little hope for BTS price to recover, which means there is little hope in having enough resources to pay for the development of any other proposals the shareholders could possibly want.
^^ This +5%
Actually we wouldn't even need the functionality in VOTE, we have the ability to do stake-vote on chain right now via the delegate slate hack but making it usable was never made a priority.
VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund. (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)
Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.
You would know better than anyone outside the project. I guess that's why you are on Music now? Good luck.
Actually we wouldn't even need the functionality in VOTE, we have the ability to do stake-vote on chain right now via the delegate slate hack but making it usable was never made a priority.
VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund. (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)
Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.
You would know better than anyone outside the project. I guess that's why you are on Music now? Good luck.
Big change, maybe we could cover this tonight on the mumble.
Actually we wouldn't even need the functionality in VOTE, we have the ability to do stake-vote on chain right now via the delegate slate hack but making it usable was never made a priority.
VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund. (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)
Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.
You would know better than anyone outside the project. I guess that's why you are on Music now? Good luck.
Big change, maybe we could cover this tonight on the mumble.
I'll gladly host something informally tonight. ..if people are interested. But it will have to be after I put the baby to sleep.
Actually we wouldn't even need the functionality in VOTE, we have the ability to do stake-vote on chain right now via the delegate slate hack but making it usable was never made a priority.
VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund. (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)
Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.
You would know better than anyone outside the project. I guess that's why you are on Music now? Good luck.
Big change, maybe we could cover this tonight on the mumble.
I'll gladly host something informally tonight. ..if people are interested. But it will have to be after I put the baby to sleep.
LOL... What local time in your timezone when mumble begins again?
Thank you!
Actually we wouldn't even need the functionality in VOTE, we have the ability to do stake-vote on chain right now via the delegate slate hack but making it usable was never made a priority.
VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund. (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)
Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.
You would know better than anyone outside the project. I guess that's why you are on Music now? Good luck.
Big change, maybe we could cover this tonight on the mumble.
I'll gladly host something informally tonight. ..if people are interested. But it will have to be after I put the baby to sleep.
LOL... What local time in your timezone when mumble begins again?
Thank you!
It would be approx 2 1/2 hours from now.
Go ahead and post an invite thread, merlin, and we can go from there. It would be a little after midnight eastern
+5%I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.My interpretation of what Toast is saying is in part that the "governance" of the DAC isn't working as efficiently as it could be and that can hurt value. For instance, he's been pushing the importance of "proposals" or other stake weighted polling for a while (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14043.0). I tend to agree and have argued that good stake polling is pretty crucial.
I think some people were turned off by the "merger" not so much because the idea of a merger was bad but simply because it appeared that Dan had the power to unilaterally change the rules and create more shares. If the same decision was made after a fairly perceived stake weighted poll was conducted the whole thing may have been perceived differently. Same goes for conflating delegates with workers; there is FUD in regards to how easily dilution happens. I've tended to think having a high bar of 50% approval of active shares for dilution would be perceived better even if it took a lot of work to get there, especially because dilution was controversial and not in the original design.
Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.
if you are not aware newmine is making fun of all of us.
Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.
I agree this delegate system is severely broken. It needs to be repaired.
Your delegate hack seemed to make things even more complicated but TBH I didn't pay much attention. It seemed too complicated to get enough people to use it.
I would rather you have more of a role in making decisions.
+5%Toast:
You are an extraordinarily talented person. Hard working and honest.
Unfortunately you have all the arrogance of youth.
Your posts are almost always thoughtful, generous and helpful. But on rare occasion they demonstrate hubris and have been as detrimental as anything Bytemaster has ever done. Please work out your frustrations with him and/or other team members in private. Or bring them up in a Mumble session that you all attend. Posting this here you are needlessly contributing to Newmine's agenda and negatively affecting our investments in this project.
I don't want to discourage Toast, since he's a good and talented guy, but I agree with this statement. From the positive perspective, Toast has a great potential to be a greater person.