BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: bytemaster on August 21, 2014, 05:30:02 pm
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There are many new people to BTSX that have their doubts about the market peg, and that is OK. After all it is an economic experiment. I have high confidence that it will work, but for those with less confidence I would like to present you with our backup plan:
*IF* the market peg doesn't hold well enough (insufficient liquidity, manipulation, etc) then we have a very simple fall back option:
1) The delegates publish a price feed (use the median)
2) All trades must be within X% of the price feed
If there is not enough liquidity it is also possible for the network to "print" BTSX necessary to make great deals relative to a trusted feed. IE: if BitUSD bids are over 10% above the feed, print BTSX to short BitUSD and if it is under the feed by 10%, cover the short. Simply knowing there is unlimited sell pressure at 10%+ and a large cover at -10% could also enhance the system. The benefit of this "system trading" is that the profits from shorting high and covering low go to the shareholders.
Bottom line, we are going with the most market-based solution first and have fall backs to feed based solutions if they prove necessary. The fall back solutions remove all of the uncertainty about how trades will be executed in the future (for those who do not trust market pegs yet).
The time to implement the backup system is less than 1 week if needed.
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Could you build these features into the system anyway, so that its an automatic fail-safe that kicks-in at a certain stage if necessary, to account for any future eventuality?
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Could you build these features into the system anyway, so that its an automatic fail-safe that kicks-in at a certain stage if necessary, to account for any future eventuality?
i think those features are already in the btsx platform.
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Could you build these features into the system anyway, so that its an automatic fail-safe that kicks-in at a certain stage if necessary, to account for any future eventuality?
i think those features are already in the btsx platform.
Publishing price feeds is already in there... implementing a trading bot relative to those price feeds is not. Market actors are more efficient than a block-chain and can have tighter tolerances. For this these features are more of a placebo effect that makes people feel good but ultimately do nothing.
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There are many new people to BTSX that have their doubts about the market peg, and that is OK. After all it is an economic experiment. I have high confidence that it will work, but for those with less confidence I would like to present you with our backup plan:
*IF* the market peg doesn't hold well enough (insufficient liquidity, manipulation, etc) then we have a very simple fall back option:
1) The delegates publish a price feed (use the median)
2) All trades must be within X% of the price feed
If there is not enough liquidity it is also possible for the network to "print" BTSX necessary to make great deals relative to a trusted feed. IE: if BitUSD bids are over 10% above the feed, print BTSX to short BitUSD and if it is under the feed by 10%, cover the short. Simply knowing there is unlimited sell pressure at 10%+ and a large cover at -10% could also enhance the system. The benefit of this "system trading" is that the profits from shorting high and covering low go to the shareholders.
Bottom line, we are going with the most market-based solution first and have fall backs to feed based solutions if they prove necessary. The fall back solutions remove all of the uncertainty about how trades will be executed in the future (for those who do not trust market pegs yet).
The time to implement the backup system is less than 1 week if needed.
+5% Even with high certainty, I always love me some backups and insurance, nice!
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For this these features are more of a placebo effect that makes people feel good but ultimately do nothing.
Placebos are proven to produce effects.
The above statement has a contradiction. What is the objective truth?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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+5% +5% +5%
...maybe you must give them the placebo pills, just in case :)
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_tQISxhBC0NZ7j9j8EU4ELmcmctQvwc3JMze7IENo9ltY4w86Fw)
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Actually the feed is less of a placebo than the hope that the prediction market will work. It actually regulates and puts stops on bad behavior. That said the feed itself could be manipulated as well.
My point is placebo is the wrong term, as it refers to something that is not designed to work. Enforcing feeds would have direct impact on the stability.
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The placebo point is that the fallback mechanism has the action of increasing confidence in the market even if it is never activated.
(I think.)
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If there is not enough liquidity it is also possible for the network to "print" BTSX necessary to make great deals relative to a trusted feed.
BTSX might become "printable"? Could someone EILI5? As a holder of BTSX this doesn't sound so good on the surface.
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If there is not enough liquidity it is also possible for the network to "print" BTSX necessary to make great deals relative to a trusted feed.
BTSX might become "printable"? Could someone EILI5? As a holder of BTSX this doesn't sound so good on the surface.
We will not make BTSX "printable" in this chain... it will be a new chain to test new features such as this. IE: this is a *backup plan* that we don't expect to have to implement.
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Hi BM, Can you clarify is the current market trading restricted by price feeds or only restricted by a moving average of prior trading activity?
Sorry I didn't keep up with this.
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Hi BM, Can you clarify is the current market trading restricted by price feeds or only restricted by a moving average of prior trading activity?
Sorry I didn't keep up with this.
Moving avg.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
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There are many new people to BTSX that have their doubts about the market peg, and that is OK. After all it is an economic experiment. I have high confidence that it will work, but for those with less confidence I would like to present you with our backup plan:
*IF* the market peg doesn't hold well enough (insufficient liquidity, manipulation, etc) then we have a very simple fall back option:
1) The delegates publish a price feed (use the median)
2) All trades must be within X% of the price feed
If there is not enough liquidity it is also possible for the network to "print" BTSX necessary to make great deals relative to a trusted feed. IE: if BitUSD bids are over 10% above the feed, print BTSX to short BitUSD and if it is under the feed by 10%, cover the short. Simply knowing there is unlimited sell pressure at 10%+ and a large cover at -10% could also enhance the system. The benefit of this "system trading" is that the profits from shorting high and covering low go to the shareholders.
Bottom line, we are going with the most market-based solution first and have fall backs to feed based solutions if they prove necessary. The fall back solutions remove all of the uncertainty about how trades will be executed in the future (for those who do not trust market pegs yet).
The time to implement the backup system is less than 1 week if needed.
If this can be achieved with a flip switch i guess most investors will feel MUCH more comfortable with the bitasset ... although i'd call it unecessary
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Hi BM, Can you clarify is the current market trading restricted by price feeds or only restricted by a moving average of prior trading activity?
Sorry I didn't keep up with this.
Moving avg.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Why do it that way? I think the price feeds are more reliable and more difficult to manipulate. If delegates decide to base their feed on a moving average they are free to do so. With the feeds it's not possible for it to drift and there can be more assurance of control. Delegates can make smarter decisions to accommodate the market without being manipulated.
I agree with the new tighter tolerances but I think it's better to use feeds. I think the feeds can be very reliable, even if we have to demand that delegates stay on top of their sh*t.
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Delegates can make smarter decisions to accommodate the market without being manipulated.
The market is the only living God...
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Hi BM, Can you clarify is the current market trading restricted by price feeds or only restricted by a moving average of prior trading activity?
Sorry I didn't keep up with this.
Moving avg.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Why do it that way? I think the price feeds are more reliable and more difficult to manipulate. If delegates decide to base their feed on a moving average they are free to do so. With the feeds it's not possible for it to drift and there can be more assurance of control. Delegates can make smarter decisions to accommodate the market without being manipulated.
I agree with the new tighter tolerances but I think it's better to use feeds. I think the feeds can be very reliable, even if we have to demand that delegates stay on top of their sh*t.
If you believe in DPOS as a voter we should all demand that delegates stay on top of their sh*t
Oh and if pegging doesn't work I am going to cry like a baby..... :'(
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There are many new people to BTSX that have their doubts about the market peg, and that is OK. After all it is an economic experiment. I have high confidence that it will work, but for those with less confidence I would like to present you with our backup plan:
*IF* the market peg doesn't hold well enough (insufficient liquidity, manipulation, etc) then we have a very simple fall back option:
1) The delegates publish a price feed (use the median)
2) All trades must be within X% of the price feed
If there is not enough liquidity it is also possible for the network to "print" BTSX necessary to make great deals relative to a trusted feed. IE: if BitUSD bids are over 10% above the feed, print BTSX to short BitUSD and if it is under the feed by 10%, cover the short. Simply knowing there is unlimited sell pressure at 10%+ and a large cover at -10% could also enhance the system. The benefit of this "system trading" is that the profits from shorting high and covering low go to the shareholders.
Bottom line, we are going with the most market-based solution first and have fall backs to feed based solutions if they prove necessary. The fall back solutions remove all of the uncertainty about how trades will be executed in the future (for those who do not trust market pegs yet).
The time to implement the backup system is less than 1 week if needed.
I think there is leak with this rule.
when the price of XTS grow up or fall down very fast, the system will lose money.
for example:
when price is 1usd/xts , I can ask much xts from system with price 0.9usd/xts ( system will short to me with unlimited amount)
when price is 0.5usd/xts, I can bid xts from system with price 0.55usd/xts ( system will cover the short)
from this step, I can get much more xts which come from the system printer.
somebody with much money maybe can control the market price to attack the whole system.
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I think there is leak with this rule.
when the price of XTS grow up or fall down very fast, the system will lose money.
for example:
when price is 1usd/xts , I can ask much xts from system with price 0.9usd/xts ( system will short to me with unlimited amount)
when price is 0.5usd/xts, I can bid xts from system with price 0.55usd/xts ( system will cover the short)
from this step, I can get much more xts which come from the system printer.
somebody with much money maybe can control the market price to attack the whole system.
I have think this again, maybe it's not so easy to attack.
I forget the 1 hour average price is not so easy to move so fast.
seems this is a safety way :) +5%
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I think there is leak with this rule.
when the price of XTS grow up or fall down very fast, the system will lose money.
for example:
when price is 1usd/xts , I can ask much xts from system with price 0.9usd/xts ( system will short to me with unlimited amount)
when price is 0.5usd/xts, I can bid xts from system with price 0.55usd/xts ( system will cover the short)
from this step, I can get much more xts which come from the system printer.
somebody with much money maybe can control the market price to attack the whole system.
I have think this again, maybe it's not so easy to attack.
I forget the 1 hour average price is not so easy to move so fast.
seems this is a safety way :) +5%
Great job , alt! Very thorough testing +5%
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I think this is the best approach, if we have an stable peg of BitUSD, BitGBP, BitEur etc and we can have exchanges of Fiat for BitUsd <-> USD, BitGBP <-> GBP etc as per discussion of using BitPay, we have open the world to crypto.
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we can certainly afford some insurance at this stage
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If the market-peg doesn't hold the bulls will be not friendly anymore....
(https://7e8c.https.cdn.softlayer.net/807E8C/origin.theweek.com/img/dir_0063/31558_article_main/a-man-tries-to-escape-the-oncoming-herd-at-a-previous-running-of-the-bulls-in-spain-runners.jpg?208)
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People just need to put some liquidity behind this:
https://bter.com/trade/bitusd_btc
They just reversed it, correct order is:
https://bter.com/trade/btc_bitusd
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People just need to put some liquidity behind this:
https://bter.com/trade/bitusd_btc
Either they unlisted it or the link broke... I am getting LTC / BTC pair from that link. :-/
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Either they unlisted it or the link broke... I am getting LTC / BTC pair from that link. :-/
They reversed it, so it looks like the rest of the world:
https://bter.com/trade/btc_bitusd
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has anyone declared that the peg works?
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has anyone declared that the peg works?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Need more liquidity. All in good times.
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Speaking of which, are delegates supposed to be publishing feeds still or is the market able stand on its own?
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Speaking of which, are delegates supposed to be publishing feeds still or is the market able stand on its own?
Market can stand on its own... if you want to publish feeds for BitBTC then I think that would be helpful because there is more BTC/BTSX liquidity than USD/BTSX... then we can trade BitBTC vs BitUSD on the internal exchange :)
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Sweet!! +1
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just published a price feed for *.delegate.xeroc