-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge. Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge
BM just whooped nxt, better sell and get some Bts
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Nxt has more infrastructure today mostly because it has been out longer. Most of the advantages listed in the Nxt list are temporary and BTSX will quickly reach parity. Other advantages listed are "future", ie taking credit for planned upgrades without giving BTSX credit for our own planned upgrades.
Nxt has a lot going for it. I welcome the competition, the market is big enough for both of us.
Quote-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge. Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge
This is not an advantage of Nxt... BitShares is more decentralized. While any one "can forge", anyone below a certain percentage ownership cannot do so profitably. Also the marginal utility argument of adding additional forgers shows there is a limit where additional decentralization costs more than the value it provides. With BitShares everyone has a say proportional to their stake....
I think at the end of the day Nxt turns into DPOS via leased forging with a different voting algorithm and that is it.
unfortunately for nxt supporters, they have mistaken flash for fire, luckily there is time to move to Bts
Nxt has more infrastructure today mostly because it has been out longer. Most of the advantages listed in the Nxt list are temporary and BTSX will quickly reach parity. Other advantages listed are "future", ie taking credit for planned upgrades without giving BTSX credit for our own planned upgrades.
Nxt has a lot going for it. I welcome the competition, the market is big enough for both of us.
I agree, both will continue to grow with time. I'd like to think that by the time BitShares reaches parity with the current version, Nxt will also have more features by that point and Bitshares will be playing catch up for a long time to come.
That's fair, I removed future advantages for Nxt. Except instant transactions because it's my own pet project :)Quote-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge. Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge
This is not an advantage of Nxt... BitShares is more decentralized. While any one "can forge", anyone below a certain percentage ownership cannot do so profitably. Also the marginal utility argument of adding additional forgers shows there is a limit where additional decentralization costs more than the value it provides. With BitShares everyone has a say proportional to their stake....
I think at the end of the day Nxt turns into DPOS via leased forging with a different voting algorithm and that is it.
Yes.. but they can lease their forging power to someone else. Same idea as voting for a delegate.
Also, when it only costs a few dollars a year to forge.. people are willing to do so without needing to be profitable, this isn't Bitcoin where you need heavy duty mining machines. Even at far past Bitcoin's size, an average PC will be capable of just as much.
Why is DPOS superior? As I understand it, it's because it allows faster transactions, right? Well, let's just say if I were to explain my idea.. Bitshares would be the one switch over to Nxt's algorithm. But still keeping it under wraps until ready to release :)unfortunately for nxt supporters, they have mistaken flash for fire, luckily there is time to move to Bts
Why? What big advantages does BTS have?
Nxt advantages:
-Also has an Asset Exchange. Cheaper to issue an asset, cheap enough that anyone can use it.
The NXT asset exchange has user-issued assets not market-issued assets. The difference is quite substantial. BitsharesME can be done with a quick fork and do the same thing.
-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge. Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge
While anyone can forge not everyone can do so profitably. Also forging relies on stake size so when I used NXT I never even produced a block despite keeping it running for weeks at a time because large holders controlled the system. That argument is also moot because anyone on BTSX can be a delegate too.
- Arbitrary messaging
Coming soon and not too difficult. BTSX already has memos.
- A decentralized marketplace
BTSX is a decentralized exchange. NXT's marketplace just has user-issued assets.
- A decentralized exchange(multi-gateway).. your BTC might even potentially get robbed if robber can hack 2 out of 3 separate high-security servers but you will not lose your Nxt via the Multi-Gateway since you trade directly from your wallet.
Cool?
- I'm in charge of implementing even faster and more decentralized confirmations in Nxt than BTSX has. Coming in a few months.
Good NXT needs to catchup to BTSX speeds :P
- Has a blockchain explorer.. which seems pretty basic, amazed you don't have anything nearly as nice as nxtexplorer.com or https://nxtblocks.info/
BTSX block explorer is built into the client which is nicer IMO. You can also see which delegate approved it.
- Multiple wallets Wesley's wallet, offspring, Human Fractal's wallet, mynxt.info
Cool I guess. I like the BitsharesX wallet..it's very well designed and operates smoothly and stable.
- nxtad.net allows anyone out their to advertise using Nxt as their crypto currency
Cool I love ads! Wait.. no I dont. BitsharesX is a DAC and makes money through transaction fees without need for ads.
-We have a team working on Automated Transactions
Good job.
-Voting system coming soon
BitsharesX uses voting for all delegation and a dedicated voting DAC BitsharesVOTE just had a snapshot and will be released soon.
-Alias system.. Bitshares might have this one too?
Bitshares has registered accounts so any transaction can be done with a name and optional memo instead of addresses.
-You can pay your credit card bill using Nxt
You could pay off your credit card with BTSX recent gains ;)
-Many more developers, at least a dozen currently interviewing and just in general has more of the basics implemented.
NXT, BitsharesX, Ethereum.. lots of great devs out there no doubt.
-Traded on more exchanges
Small volume on more exchanges. Also BTSX is an exchange so when the internal asset market opens there will be less reliance on other exchanges which I think is a positive.
Clearly my money is mostly on Nxt and I know it much better.. so what am I missing that I can add under BitShare advantages? Any of this stuff that Nxt already implements that BTSX does too? You guys have DACs out yet?
BTSX has market-issued assets with a market pegged prediction market so there's that. BTSX is a DAC with several more Bitshares DACs coming out very soon.
You guys all agree that BTSX is currently in a bubble?
No.
-Alias system.. Bitshares might have this one too?
We don't have any more time for nxt here. Read BM's latest blog post on letstalkbitcoin and learn about Bts>nxt, Bts>btc
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We don't have any more time for nxt here. Read BM's latest blog post on letstalkbitcoin and learn about Bts>nxt, Bts>btc
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We, do ...
we need everybody aboard...
Nxt has more infrastructure today mostly because it has been out longer. Most of the advantages listed in the Nxt list are temporary and BTSX will quickly reach parity. Other advantages listed are "future", ie taking credit for planned upgrades without giving BTSX credit for our own planned upgrades.
Nxt has a lot going for it. I welcome the competition, the market is big enough for both of us.
I agree, both will continue to grow with time. I'd like to think that by the time BitShares reaches parity with the current version, Nxt will also have more features by that point and Bitshares will be playing catch up for a long time to come.
That's fair, I removed future advantages for Nxt. Except instant transactions because it's my own pet project :)Quote-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge. Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge
This is not an advantage of Nxt... BitShares is more decentralized. While any one "can forge", anyone below a certain percentage ownership cannot do so profitably. Also the marginal utility argument of adding additional forgers shows there is a limit where additional decentralization costs more than the value it provides. With BitShares everyone has a say proportional to their stake....
I think at the end of the day Nxt turns into DPOS via leased forging with a different voting algorithm and that is it.
Yes.. but they can lease their forging power to someone else. Same idea as voting for a delegate.
Also, when it only costs a few dollars a year to forge.. people are willing to do so without needing to be profitable, this isn't Bitcoin where you need heavy duty mining machines. Even at far past Bitcoin's size, an average PC will be capable of just as much.
Why is DPOS superior? As I understand it, it's because it allows faster transactions, right? Well, let's just say if I were to explain my idea.. Bitshares would be the one switch over to Nxt's algorithm. But still keeping it under wraps until ready to release :)unfortunately for nxt supporters, they have mistaken flash for fire, luckily there is time to move to Bts
Why? What big advantages does BTS have?
If you can't see the future, then you should hedge your bets
We don't have any more time for nxt here. Read BM's latest blog post on letstalkbitcoin and learn about Bts>nxt, Bts>btc
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Nxt has more infrastructure today mostly because it has been out longer. Most of the advantages listed in the Nxt list are temporary and BTSX will quickly reach parity. Other advantages listed are "future", ie taking credit for planned upgrades without giving BTSX credit for our own planned upgrades.
Nxt has a lot going for it. I welcome the competition, the market is big enough for both of us.
I agree, both will continue to grow with time. I'd like to think that by the time BitShares reaches parity with the current version, Nxt will also have more features by that point and Bitshares will be playing catch up for a long time to come.
That's fair, I removed future advantages for Nxt. Except instant transactions because it's my own pet project :)Quote-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge. Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge
This is not an advantage of Nxt... BitShares is more decentralized. While any one "can forge", anyone below a certain percentage ownership cannot do so profitably. Also the marginal utility argument of adding additional forgers shows there is a limit where additional decentralization costs more than the value it provides. With BitShares everyone has a say proportional to their stake....
I think at the end of the day Nxt turns into DPOS via leased forging with a different voting algorithm and that is it.
Yes.. but they can lease their forging power to someone else. Same idea as voting for a delegate.
Also, when it only costs a few dollars a year to forge.. people are willing to do so without needing to be profitable, this isn't Bitcoin where you need heavy duty mining machines. Even at far past Bitcoin's size, an average PC will be capable of just as much.
Why is DPOS superior? As I understand it, it's because it allows faster transactions, right? Well, let's just say if I were to explain my idea.. Bitshares would be the one switch over to Nxt's algorithm. But still keeping it under wraps until ready to release :)unfortunately for nxt supporters, they have mistaken flash for fire, luckily there is time to move to Bts
Why? What big advantages does BTS have?
If you can't see the future, then you should hedge your bets
i totally agree this. tho i don't agree with it's premise.
I've made some quick comments on all your questions. I think you should just download the BitsharesX client and give it a shot.. who knows, you may even like it! :D
We don't have any more time for nxt here. Read BM's latest blog post on letstalkbitcoin and learn about Bts>nxt, Bts>btc
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We, do ...
we need everybody aboard...
I consider BitShares more scalable at VISA levels.... home computers won't be able to forge at VISA bandwidth requirements.
I consider C++ better than Java in the long-run.
We don't have any more time for nxt here. Read BM's latest blog post on letstalkbitcoin and learn about Bts>nxt, Bts>btc
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We are now #1 target and will continue to be that way. People need to realize mr byrnee and his ilk are only the beginning. I wouldn't feel too much of a need to respond to all of it. Most of it won't be valid criticism, and will be coming from a place of fear. Stick with valid criticism and not posts that end in things like "you agree btsx is in a bubble?". If someone wants a response, they can make a reasonable criticism and it will likely be addressed from what I have seen. If we feel the need to stoop every time , then our backs will surely be sore and our productivity dwindling.
If I was you guys, I'd hit reddit/bitcointalk and look for random posts about Bitcoin 2.0 etc, or even problems with Bitcoin. Evangelize. Point them to our growing (albeit slowly) source of documentation. It isn't perfect, but I doubt it is any worse than NXT etc.
In fact, we might collect a whole page of reasonable criticisms and the responses. :)
Getting into a language war isn't going to be very productive. Like most things it depends upon perspective and definitions.
"With BitShares everyone has a say proportional to their stake...."Quote-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge. Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge
This is not an advantage of Nxt... BitShares is more decentralized. While any one "can forge", anyone below a certain percentage ownership cannot do so profitably. Also the marginal utility argument of adding additional forgers shows there is a limit where additional decentralization costs more than the value it provides. With BitShares everyone has a say proportional to their stake....
I think at the end of the day Nxt turns into DPOS via leased forging with a different voting algorithm and that is it.
We don't have any more time for nxt here. Read BM's latest blog post on letstalkbitcoin and learn about Bts>nxt, Bts>btcI have some aversion towards statements which try to kill the friendly discussion. What you are saying is arrogant and on almost the same level as the bitshares = satan post. Be nice and convince them.
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I've made some quick comments on all your questions. I think you should just download the BitsharesX client and give it a shot.. who knows, you may even like it! :DGood idea! I like it.. but I would definitely encourage you to do the same for Wesley's Nxt wallet. I think you'll be impressed. :)
- nxtad.net allows anyone out their to advertise using Nxt as their crypto currencyNot ads in the Nxt forum or wallet.. check out the link, allows crypto advertisers and publishers to display ads.
Cool I love ads! Wait.. no I dont. BitsharesX is a DAC and makes money through transaction fees without need for ads.
- A decentralized marketplaceYou don't understand.. what BTSX calls market, Nxt call Asset Exchange. Nxt has a 'marketplace' that allows selling goods and services as well.
BTSX is a decentralized exchange. NXT's marketplace just has user-issued assets.
-You can pay your credit card bill using NxtNot directly!
You could pay off your credit card with BTSX recent gains ;)
You guys all agree that BTSX is currently in a bubble?
No.
DPOS security in 5 seconds is better than NXT security in 10 minutes.Not for long ;)
Bitshares community is better than Nxt community because we don't develop in secret like you are doing. I am sure you have your reasons, but your claims cannot be challenged nor debated fairly so long as they are secret.No the community is very open.. just me being secretive with this one idea, so we can get a head start with it. I've run it by enough Nxt developers to be confident it should work. You are right, don't invest in Nxt because I claim to have a better algorithm.. even if you will wish you had :)
I consider C++ better than Java in the long-run.I don't.. I consider them equal, Java somewhat protects you from making stupid mistakes that could let someone overflow a bugger or something like that. They both have advantages and disadvantages.
I consider BitShares more scalable at VISA levels.... home computers won't be able to forge at VISA bandwidth requirements.Given how fast computers are improving.. by the time we get there, probably they will. They are close at this point. And not only that but leasing pools will have high speed, high bandwidth computers.. or else people will lease somewhere else. So it's ok, if some blocks aren't as full as they could be, as long as the leasing pools, which will be doing most of the leasing pick up the slack.
Im getting this as NXT advertising.
Somehow there are 5 points listed for BTSX advantages and 13 for NXT. Perhaps study and fully understand the technology before slinging material in the forums.
Nicely finished off with the bubble theory...
We don't have any more time for nxt here. Read BM's latest blog post on letstalkbitcoin and learn about Bts>nxt, Bts>btc
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We are now #1 target and will continue to be that way. People need to realize mr byrnee and his ilk are only the beginning. I wouldn't feel too much of a need to respond to all of it. Most of it won't be valid criticism, and will be coming from a place of fear. Stick with valid criticism and not posts that end in things like "you agree btsx is in a bubble?". If someone wants a response, they can make a reasonable criticism and it will likely be addressed from what I have seen. If we feel the need to stoop every time , then our backs will surely be sore and our productivity dwindling.
If I was you guys, I'd hit reddit/bitcointalk and look for random posts about Bitcoin 2.0 etc, or even problems with Bitcoin. Evangelize. Point them to our growing (albeit slowly) source of documentation. It isn't perfect, but I doubt it is any worse than NXT etc.
In fact, we might collect a whole page of reasonable criticisms and the responses. :)
I will put it shortly 'mczarnek' - real currencies do not have bubbles ... read it is as you wish.
TheOnion
“Don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you.”
― Confucius
I don't like this thread ...
Even starting a thread with a topic like that is too aggresive, and offensively attacking an other community that wants to achieve equal goals.
Have you guys ever thought about that the NXT community can read this here?
Would you like to be treated like this?
I'd like to remind everyone that we have a netiquette! Everyone on the internet should know about it!Quote“Don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you.”
― Confucius
Let's get back to the hard facts. And leave sentiments aside! Thanks
I will put it shortly 'mczarnek' - real currencies do not have bubbles ... read it is as you wish.
TheOnion
Really? You mean that BTSX isn't a real currency? I'd call what happened 2 days ago to BTSX a bubble, which I suspect hasn't fully popped.
What makes BTSX bubble proof? I mean I know that short term they are trying to prop up prices using funds gotten from the IPO.. that won't last long though.
I don't like this thread ...
Even starting a thread with a topic like that is too aggresive, and offensively attacking an other community that wants to achieve equal goals.
Have you guys ever thought about that the NXT community can read this here?
Would you like to be treated like this?
I'd like to remind everyone that we have a netiquette! Everyone on the internet should know about it!Quote“Don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you.”
― Confucius
Let's get back to the hard facts. And leave sentiments aside! Thanks
in all fairness: https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/nxt-pos-vs-bitshares-dpos/
i suggest change the 'vs' to 'and' in both threads.
- A decentralized marketplaceYou don't understand.. what BTSX calls market, Nxt call Asset Exchange. Nxt has a 'marketplace' that allows selling goods and services as well.
BTSX is a decentralized exchange. NXT's marketplace just has user-issued assets.
The one is an IOU and the other is a market pegged asset (did that exist before, with it being an IOU at the same time??)- A decentralized marketplaceYou don't understand.. what BTSX calls market, Nxt call Asset Exchange. Nxt has a 'marketplace' that allows selling goods and services as well.
BTSX is a decentralized exchange. NXT's marketplace just has user-issued assets.
Sorry friend, but you still don't understand the difference between market-pegged assets and user-issued assets. Once you realize the difference, you'll finally understand the power of BitsharesX. 8)
The one is an IOU and the other is a market pegged asset (did that exist before, with it being an IOU at the same time??)
I don't want to be that guy, but any commodity can be manipulated in price as long as its pricing is dependant on collectively issued credit currency (i.e. the current fiat regime). This is even more so true for BTSX as it encourages the usage of bitAssets and hence the pricing of BTSX tokens in terms of those bitAssets.The one is an IOU and the other is a market pegged asset (did that exist before, with it being an IOU at the same time??)
Yea, user-issued assets are IOUs while market-pegged assets are fully fungible whose price is derived through social consensus rather than by the issuer alone.
I have a question.... is BitsharesX the first time the price of 1 troy ounce .999 fine gold will be set by the free market rather than from a couple bankers colluding in private? :o
I've studied Nxt for 8 months, BTSX for a day.. that's why I'm asking if people could give me bullet points and I will happily add some to the first post.
We've had some people trying to post to the nxtforum.org to start a NXT vs Bitshares discussion (https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/open-invitation-to-the-nxt-community!/). Figured I'd post back here and get one going here as well. Meant to be friendly and make sure you guys are aware of what's going on in the Nxt community as BTSX and Nxt are the most promising POS coins in my my opinion.
What do you guys think about Nxt vs BitShares?
Bitshares advantages:
-Shorting with collateral, which is a nice addition to AE.
-DPOS
-Faster confirmations
-Titan addresses somehow adds privacy? Could someone explain?
-Probably better marketing team.. Nxt Organization has just started and is trying to change that, but it's going to be a little bit
Nxt advantages:
-Also has an Asset Exchange. Cheaper to issue an asset, cheap enough that anyone can use it.
-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge. Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge
- Arbitrary messaging
- A decentralized marketplace
- A decentralized exchange(multi-gateway).. your BTC might even potentially get robbed if robber can hack 2 out of 3 separate high-security servers but you will not lose your Nxt via the Multi-Gateway since you trade directly from your wallet.
- I'm in charge of implementing even faster and more decentralized confirmations in Nxt than BTSX has. Coming in a few months.
- Has a blockchain explorer.. which seems pretty basic, amazed you don't have anything nearly as nice as nxtexplorer.com or https://nxtblocks.info/
- Multiple wallets Wesley's wallet, offspring, Human Fractal's wallet, mynxt.info
- nxtad.net allows anyone out their to advertise using Nxt as their crypto currency
-Alias system.. Bitshares might have this one too?
-You can pay your credit card bill using Nxt
-Many more developers, at least a dozen currently interviewing and just in general has more of the basics implemented.
-Traded on more exchanges
Clearly my money is mostly on Nxt and I know it much better.. so what am I missing that I can add under BitShare advantages? Any of this stuff that Nxt already implements that BTSX does too? You guys have DACs out yet?
You guys all agree that BTSX is currently in a bubble?
You made that number up .. didn't you?Yeah, it's in a bubble just like the universe 1.21 picoseconds after the Big Bang.
I don't want to be that guy, but any commodity can be manipulated in price as long as its pricing is dependant on collectively issued credit currency (i.e. the current fiat regime). This is even more so true for BTSX as it encourages the usage of bitAssets and hence the pricing of BTSX tokens in terms of those bitAssets.
It is going to be interesting to witness how much the DAC ecosystem will evolve, including BTSX istelf. We are in for a wilde ride.
You made that number up .. didn't you?Yeah, it's in a bubble just like the universe 1.21 picoseconds after the Big Bang.
DPOS security in 5 seconds is better than NXT security in 10 minutes.
Bitshares community is better than Nxt community because we don't develop in secret like you are doing. I am sure you have your reasons, but your claims cannot be challenged nor debated fairly so long as they are secret.
I consider C++ better than Java in the long-run.
I consider BitShares more scalable at VISA levels.... home computers won't be able to forge at VISA bandwidth requirements.
How can BTSX be in a bubble when the main features aren't released yet? I think it's just getting started. I think if it were at 10 cents then we could talk about it being in a bubble.
"Regarding NXT as coins: NXTs are not coins... or at least the creator of Nxt didn't want them to be seen as coins. They are tokens that grant privileges for supporting Nxt.
Deflation is not much better than inflation. "Real" coins should be created on top of Nxt, and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant. BCNext understands that this is very arguable. The community should decide if it wants to follow the path showed by him, or stick to the Bitcoin legacy of an unchangeable supply of coins with which people hope to become rich by doing nothing."
"Regarding NXT as coins: NXTs are not coins... or at least the creator of Nxt didn't want them to be seen as coins. They are tokens that grant privileges for supporting Nxt.BCNext envisioned it in this way.. the community however sees it as a currency. We ran a poll and out of ~20 people voting, only one thought that Nxt was not a currency.
Deflation is not much better than inflation. "Real" coins should be created on top of Nxt, and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant. BCNext understands that this is very arguable. The community should decide if it wants to follow the path showed by him, or stick to the Bitcoin legacy of an unchangeable supply of coins with which people hope to become rich by doing nothing."