Main > Stakeholder Proposals
Marketing repost - Beyond Bitcoin Sponsorship
JoeyD:
So first off, I really hope I got this wrong. Sorry but I'm not that familiar with the LTB thing or the media-group they are trying to build.
Can someone explain to me how this LTBCoin thing works? From the sound of it, I get the impression it is similar to the old Factory tokens that could only be spent in the factory store and using it to create lock-in.
If that's how it works, then I'm not supportive of that at all. That is one of the reasons we're in this mess we are trying to fix with the whole distributed concept. I do not want to help retrace the steps that led to the invention of the Federal reserve.
Another big issue for me is this Adam B Levine person and supporting him. How important and essential is he in all this? I only know Adam B Levine from his posts on this forums and sometimes seeing his remarks on reddit and such, but that did not leave a favorable impression at all. Especially not how he seems to be so adamant at trying to antagonize the forums here. Like how he starts this whole drama-queen nonsense and persecution nonsense with "forum defense force" and crap like that. Reading the reactions, Adam apparently seems to have a lot of pull in the bitshares community and outside, but I honestly think there is something wrong with him.
So I hope someone can debunk my fears. Otherwise supporting this plus the delegates supporting this would not be helping cause in trying to combat monopolies and corruption and help with the (re)distribution of powers.
EDIT
Just a disclaimer, I do not represent anyone other than myself. So if somebody wants to use my quote in any other way, I claim copyright and you have to point to my entire post.
fuzzy:
--- Quote from: legendface66 on October 12, 2014, 02:32:41 am ---
Yea, the original BB concept fills a necessary niche. It's difficult to balance purpose and productivity though. If you take as metrics of utility quality content and listener reach; BBX as at scale requires popularisation of the bitshares platform and the integration of other communities to achieve utility, something that lies outside of my time budget. Just maintaining a quality podcast absorbs all that I'm prepared to give, hence my total lack of community involvement these days.
--- End quote ---
It does not "require" the integration of other communities as BitShares builds its own DACs which will essentially eat altcoins (those that serve no long-term, sustainable purpose) alive. BBx is a way to help those who have a loyal following move forward and have equal footing in the race. As long as bitshares remains one of the technological leaders...the end conclusion is pretty much baked into the cake.
--- Quote from: legendface66 on October 12, 2014, 02:32:41 am ---on another note,
There is the unforeseen obligation to the LTB platform which, @gamey, you foresaw. It is a happily shouldered burden considering the genuine if small remuneration it offers and the tremendous reach.
I will always advocate Adam's approach because I believe in it. Although I don't totally agree with you gamey, he is more listener oriented and that allows me to be less so. Frankly I don't have the necessary skill for what he does.
--- End quote ---
Let us not be coy. It was not unforeseen. We both knew this is where the industry was heading and to say otherwise might be seen by the critical eye as a tad disingenuous. Could you give us a little more information about the exact aspects of Adam's approach you believe in and why?
--- Quote from: legendface66 on October 12, 2014, 02:32:41 am ---and then,
Rough editing of the BBX hangouts is perfect. It's not listener oriented but still very listenable, unmissable actually; the best content around in my opinion. It can't be improved, because the interaction of the participants is balanced and productive in all instances. It's very democratic, something that can't be achieved with any other format.
--- End quote ---
You are correct. I designed it specifically that way after taking the time to fully consider BM's designs and the philosophy behind them. Thanks for noticing ;)
However, this platform literally piggybacked on the shoulder of a true Giant and was meant to help grow a grassroots community that rivals (and eventually overtakes) bitcoin. Many on these forums are well aware of bitshares potential in this respect.
--- Quote from: legendface66 on October 12, 2014, 02:32:41 am ---Thanks for looking out for me @fuzznuts, and keep the platform firing. What happened to the new website? I'd happily start referring people to it and while we're at it host my podcast there, more content, and more reach. It's all about reach. Grab those ears and pour the message into them. If there's one thing Ive learned it's to avoid advocating and instead showcase quality through a neutral perspective. It's something I get better at all the time and it pays dividends in listenership.
--- End quote ---
I only advocate those who have proven themselves to me. While I wish to trust your intentions, the past issues honestly have shaken my confidence slightly (can you honestly blame me if the tables were turned?). However, that is not to say my confidence is lost...only to inform you that you are in a place where it would be extremely valuable for you to start considering how you can re-mediate the situation. I might not create epic content, but the community knows I will sacrifice a great deal to my own personal detriment to see it grow into something that builds an equitable and free world for my baby. That trust is priceless and I will never do anything to intentionally squander that trust. That said, I do believe you are genuine...even if our past has some "spotty" events.
Beyond Bitcoinx is meant to be owned by the Bitshares community, or more accurately, a DAC that comes from the Bitshares Toolkit---it was built for them because the bitshares platform was designed with a philosophy that integrates perfectly with it.
(to be clear, I do not question your intentions...only the means by which you have acted in the past...which we can discuss further if needed--it's probably not needed)
Also, let us never say we are neutral. Neutrality is impossible in the human arena...this is why mathematically based currencies like bitcoin, and cryptographically based Companies were created, because humans cannot be impartial. It is best for longterm trust and viability that we never imply we are neutral. Instead, giving our biases openly along with true reasons backing them is the best path to walk imho...and garners far more loyalty and trust from those who really pay attention. And those who really pay attention are who sway the tide in our favor.
As for the website, Jabba worked on it and so it is not my call. You would have to speak with him. Though I see no issues with this, the appeal would be far greater if you had been covering our events for a long period before making this post...the trust and respect it would have gained with the community, and therefore the delegates who will service them, would be invaluable. Maybe its not a bad time to start covering them a bit more? Never too late to garner trust!...just takes a little longer if we wait for too long.
--- Quote from: legendface66 on October 12, 2014, 02:32:41 am ---finally,
if you guys have LTBC pool them and buy the slots, I'm obliged to support the token in this situation and as I'm remunerated in it, incentivised to stimulate velocity and demand. I can't offer you guys any special treatment, it would be unethical but this first hasn't been promoted in any way so it should be a value buy and the next will be a multi token auction where you can get three shows which should go cheap.
--- End quote ---
While I advocate delegates using your services (they are top notch quality!) I caution them to consider the dangers of taking a short-sighted view of overlooking the value of what is growing steadily here in the bitshares ecosystem itself...use both, but know you will find no better long-term advocates of your product/service than those you help foster from the beginning. Loyalty is gained in this way...and it is loyalty based on ethical principles and honest relationships.
As for being obligated to accept only LTBC. Did you sign a contract? LTBNetwork has some great people in it and is doing some awesome things with its Bitcoin-Industry Giant connections...so it is not a bad idea to accept it. But it is also never a bad idea to diversify (bitUSD anyone?). Even I am diversifying...and im pretty biased to bitshares, whose engineering feats have irrevocably changed Bitcoin's strategy moving forward.
--- Quote from: legendface66 on October 12, 2014, 02:32:41 am ---Paying for promotion sends a message of profitability. Can't mine? Start a delegate and advertise your service. I'd suggest that an inactive delegate advertise and in response the community vote it in, - prove that the marketing works. This is an opportunity to promote the platform you believe in that otherwise will probably be taken up by a Bitcoin wallet service. Which I will of course, promote the shit out of. Pardon my French.
--- End quote ---
Will these services be required to pay as well for this promotion? Or are you saying that if Delegates don't pay for these slots, you will openly advocate for their competitors free of charge? Have you sent a similar message to these Bitcoin Wallet Services? If so, where and when?
--- Quote from: legendface66 on October 12, 2014, 02:32:41 am ---This post is too long but the tldr; is market yourselves, become an active delegate, promote the platform . . .
and, um, pay me for the service because if you don't someone else will.
That all might have come off a bit terse, oh well we're here to win right?
--- End quote ---
We are all in it to "win"...but some of us have different definitions of "winning". Can you tell the Delegates what your definition of "winning" is? Bitshares' core community is staunch about decentralization of power in everything...so the biggest win here would be to decentralize media creation completely (which is what we are doing).
Also, no one will be angered by your attempt to garner support, but it would likely be best to leave implied threats out of it ;) --it certainly will come across that way to some--if not many.
Delegates are smart enough to know that there are many opportunities out there to promote themselves. Some of these will depend on 3rd parties and some of them will fund it from within. Still others will donate to causes that help all of humanity and in-so-doing gain acceptance not from advertising, but by producing real value that keeps loyalty for the lifetime of the Delegate.
In short, advertising is great. Delegates should jump on the opportunity, but they should also realize there are other opportunities that may garner long-term trust far better than a model based on our current political system.
P.S. I have personally struggled with how I will fund BBx using delegates... it is reallllly hard. So please understand I am not trying to downplay your assistance. I believe it is extremely valuable. I do, however, advocate Delegates thinking outside the box too. There are likely FAR more effective methods of gaining traction than even LTBNetwork (for instance, Xeroc's strategy to run multiple delegates that give to charitable causes--like KhanAcademy--and having a separate delegate that pays himself directly).
As a matter of fact, delegates could even team up to contribute funds to have competitions for the journalists who would best represent them. Free advertising comes from the competition and the one who wins (maybe by community vote?) gets a permanent job working with the delegate for as long as the delegate stays in power.
Things are going to get very political people...it is in the BEST INTEREST OF ALL CRYPTO to use the channels available and to also consider options we have never yet thought of. Remember, crypto opens up a world of opportunities that never before were available...this old model of advertising is great, but it is also old. It is also very easily corrupted.
legendface66:
Who cares about the hijack, the purpose of this thread is fulfilled in the original post.
Yea, the original BB concept fills a necessary niche. It's difficult to balance purpose and productivity though. If you take as metrics of utility quality content and listener reach; BBX as at scale requires popularisation of the bitshares platform and the integration of other communities to achieve utility, something that lies outside of my time budget. Just maintaining a quality podcast absorbs all that I'm prepared to give, hence my total lack of community involvement these days.
on another note,
There is the unforeseen obligation to the LTB platform which, @gamey, you foresaw. It is a happily shouldered burden considering the genuine if small remuneration it offers and the tremendous reach.
I will always advocate Adam's approach because I believe in it. Although I don't totally agree with you gamey, he is more listener oriented and that allows me to be less so. Frankly I don't have the necessary skill for what he does.
and then,
Rough editing of the BBX hangouts is perfect. It's not listener oriented but still very listenable, unmissable actually; the best content around in my opinion. It can't be improved, because the interaction of the participants is balanced and productive in all instances. It's very democratic, something that can't be achieved with any other format.
Thanks for looking out for me @fuzznuts, and keep the platform firing. What happened to the new website? I'd happily start referring people to it and while we're at it host my podcast there, more content, and more reach. It's all about reach. Grab those ears and pour the message into them. If there's one thing Ive learned it's to avoid advocating and instead showcase quality through a neutral perspective. It's something I get better at all the time and it pays dividends in listenership.
finally,
if you guys have LTBC pool them and buy the slots, I'm obliged to support the token in this situation and as I'm remunerated in it, incentivised to stimulate velocity and demand. I can't offer you guys any special treatment, it would be unethical but this first hasn't been promoted in any way so it should be a value buy and the next will be a multi token auction where you can get three shows which should go cheap.
Paying for promotion sends a message of profitability. Can't mine? Start a delegate and advertise your service. I'd suggest that an inactive delegate advertise and in response the community vote it in, - prove that the marketing works. This is an opportunity to promote the platform you believe in that otherwise will probably be taken up by a Bitcoin wallet service. Which I will of course, promote the shit out of. Pardon my French.
This post is too long but the tldr; is market yourselves, become an active delegate, promote the platform . . .
and, um, pay me for the service because if you don't someone else will.
That all might have come off a bit terse, oh well we're here to win right?
fuzzy:
--- Quote from: gamey on October 12, 2014, 12:17:46 am ---Sorry for thread hijack!
The problem with leaving the BBX show unedited is that it is expected for Dan to show up and spend his time roughy every week. When you leave the audio uncut, you let people have malicious and malignant agendas. You have weird spots of dead time or technical glitches which have people bounce from listening. Given Dan's commitment, I think the content deserves a little editing. It would be great to throw the content out there unedited but I don't think it is a better approach until someone edits it! The shows are open so anyone can record their own raw recording and do whatever with it that they wish. I'd be happy to have someone else edit it !
The last I heard, Arthur had taken the "Beyond Bitcoin on the LTB Network" name. I didn't realize he had dropped the LTB Network name. Well, we also sometimes use Beyond Bitcoin or Beyond Bitcoin Show because frankly there is no reason not to. So there is going to be some confusion.
I don't think it is exactly true that Beyond Bitcoin was ever meant to be Bitshares specific. It turned out that way because frankly neither Fuz nor I want to be a podcast personality and our little show doesn't have much pull. I still like the slogan "home of the reluctant podcasters".
As for Arthur good luck in his endeavors ! He has done well for himself. Anyone who is reading this should buy an ad spot. The traffic his show gets is impressive.
--- End quote ---
Actually, the "Beyond Bitcoin Show" Reddit has Arthur as an admin (to this day--and Beyond). It is meant for all correspondents from each community to post (like we do) event updates so the community(ies) who cannot make it to events can still have their voices heard.
It is not meant as a way to take Arthurs show :O
As far as Arthur using our content...or anyone for that matter, that is the model!
As for our show not having much pull...the bitshares ecosystem is not ANYWHERE NEAR as mature as Bitcoin's. So please remember that LTB has literally been around years (as opposed to our mere months...big point here)--and the network effect starts out very very slowly, only surging upward once a spark ignites fuel that is primed for combustion. I am going to pretty much guarantee their viewership was probably not much better at this stage of the game for them. The same goes for the quality of content.
So let us not forget this ;)
gamey:
Sorry for thread hijack!
The problem with leaving the BBX show unedited is that it is expected for Dan to show up and spend his time roughy every week. When you leave the audio uncut, you let people have malicious and malignant agendas. You have weird spots of dead time or technical glitches which have people bounce from listening. Given Dan's commitment, I think the content deserves a little editing. It would be great to throw the content out there unedited but I don't think it is a better approach until someone edits it! The shows are open so anyone can record their own raw recording and do whatever with it that they wish. I'd be happy to have someone else edit it !
The last I heard, Arthur had taken the "Beyond Bitcoin on the LTB Network" name. I didn't realize he had dropped the LTB Network name. Well, we also sometimes use Beyond Bitcoin or Beyond Bitcoin Show because frankly there is no reason not to. So there is going to be some confusion.
I don't think it is exactly true that Beyond Bitcoin was ever meant to be Bitshares specific. It turned out that way because frankly neither Fuz nor I want to be a podcast personality and our little show doesn't have much pull. I still like the slogan "home of the reluctant podcasters".
As for Arthur good luck in his endeavors ! He has done well for himself. Anyone who is reading this should buy an ad spot. The traffic his show gets is impressive.
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