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Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: fuzzy on October 29, 2015, 03:51:38 pm

Title: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: fuzzy on October 29, 2015, 03:51:38 pm
This Hangout is w/ Bytemaster of Cryptonomex

Last Chance to Ask Questions Here:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZLFoBkC.jpg) (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16318.msg248128.html#msg248128)

Follow Twitter: @Beyond_Bitcoin (https://twitter.com/Beyond_Bitcoin)
(http://i.imgur.com/3EWHzCa.jpg) (https://twitter.com/Beyond_Bitcoin)
Retweet This Week's Hangout [ANN]! (https://twitter.com/Beyond_Bitcoin/status/659597667576754176)

Or better yet--Join us!  For updates on upcoming events, attend, record and report live from our Mumble Server!
Beyond Bitcoin Mumble Server Setup Directions here! (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=15362.0)


**ATTENTION BROWNIE LOVERS**

Ensure you Complete the account information HERE (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nz0fXiVvPfldyWxianBguMRS9QnOJ02Kz-TSwOb5ZMw/edit?usp=sharing) for easy dispersal.  Brownie distribution to begin again this week (you will be made whole!)
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: topcandle on October 29, 2015, 07:37:56 pm
What happened to Vikram?  How long is his leave of absence? 

Now two two devs (Toast and Vikram) have left Bitshares...  how are you going to retain the rest?
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: topcandle on October 29, 2015, 07:39:05 pm
What is next for bitshares?   Is there a timeframe for the next announcement? 
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: topcandle on October 29, 2015, 07:41:13 pm
When will Follow my Vote go into effect?  What are your expectations for it?
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: jakub on October 29, 2015, 08:04:43 pm
I'm a bit confused about BM's suggestion expressed in the last mumble session regarding the committee members.
Maybe somebody will be able to clarify that for me.

In the pre-hangout part BM says:
Quote
I think at this point I wouldn’t object to some of the Witnesses also being Committee Members. I think that in the long run we’d want to separate out those roles, but we only have so many people in the Community with technical knowledge and right now the Witnesses are the most capable.

But later on (at 1:16:55) he says:
Quote
I think it would make sense to have the committee members and the proxy voters be one and the same.

So what is the actual intention: to have the witnesses or proxy voters temporarily acting as committee members?
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: jakub on October 29, 2015, 08:15:56 pm
I have this question for BM:

In previous hang-outs BM said he was against worker proposals being used for anything that is not related to code development as we have the referral program for that purpose.
So how are we going to encourage people to make effort like writing documentation or taking care of the road-map being updated on a regular basis?

Such efforts cannot be directly linked to the referral program but they are very important and need to be somehow sponsored by the blockchain.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: Tuck Fheman on October 29, 2015, 08:18:44 pm
I have this question for BM:

In previous hang-outs BM said he was against worker proposals being used for anything that is not related to code development as we have the referral program for that purpose.
So how are we going to encourage people to make effort like writing documentation or taking care of the road-map being updated on a regular basis?

Such efforts cannot be directly linked to the referral program but they are very important and need to be somehow sponsored by the blockchain.

 +5% +5% +5% +5% +5% +5% +5% +5%
(http://i.imgur.com/Z2DPU4i.gif)
 +5% +5% +5% +5% +5% +5% +5% +5%
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: topcandle on October 29, 2015, 08:21:30 pm
How do you feel about the sponsorship of Ethereum Devcon by Microsoft?  Has this changed your feelings about Ethereum?  Where does this lead us in terms of our partnerships.  Are we being aggressive enough? 
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: jakub on October 30, 2015, 07:31:53 am
Fuzzy, I think the issue raised by tonyk in this thread
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19102.msg251511.html#msg251511
should definitely be discussed in this coming hangout.

I'm too stupid to understand what the core of the issue is but I do feel that it needs to be addressed by BM asap for two reasons:
- to make sure BM understands tonyk's point of view
- for us to hear BM's point of view and his explanation for non-traders what this is about

IMO it's very dangerous to have such an extreme discrepancy between the devs and the traders.
We need the traders to be happy, especially at this initial stage when liquidity is so low.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: tonyk on October 30, 2015, 07:37:51 am
Fuzzy, I think the issue raised by tonyk in this thread
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19102.msg251511.html#msg251511
should definitely be discussed in this coming hangout.

I'm too stupid to understand what the core of the issue is but I do feel that it needs to be addressed by BM asap for two reasons:
- to make sure BM understands tonyk's point of view
- for us to hear BM's point of view and his explanation for non-traders what this is about

IMO it's very dangerous to have such an extreme discrepancy between the devs and the traders.
We need the traders to be happy, especially at this initial stage when liquidity is so low.

Nope!!!!

fuzz(y) has a strict policy against asking any question of mine....so sorry but no!!!
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: betax on October 30, 2015, 07:47:06 am
From another thread (and many times suggested)

I think Graphene should be marketed more as a blockchain platform or infrastructure, similar (but not the same) to Ethereum. Flexibility vs Performance.

It needs (quick brainstorming):

+ Clear licencing model (How much, or simple written negotiation terms)
+ Showcase (Bitshares, Muse eventually).
+ Clear documentation (how do I extend Graphene to do business X)
+ Business model boundaries (If you are extended financial services, this should be implemented in Bitshares, the revenue model will be, Music in Muse. any other model you can use the Graphene toolkit)
+ Market itself as a toolkit / platform etc.
+ Invest some resource on proving the infrastructure (note as graphene, not bitshares), ie 100k TPS, Security etc.
+ Clear future plans.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: betax on October 30, 2015, 07:59:35 am
We need an UX worker role, for Bitshares and all partners.

This is (at the moment) specific to overall UI design of partners websites, logos and / or content, the current process is quick announcement, quick launch, looks unpleasant, cass to the rescue.

Can we ensure that this does not happen, again? It is much simpler to involve cass / or team with cass to either do the design first or help.

This does not relate to the launch of Muse specifically, there are other examples. But it could have "looked" much better, just look at Ujos Alpha release. I assume the intention for Peertracks launch to be in a bigger scale to that one (well it should be, and will go through proper UX process).

This is not related to Bitshares UX as it is work in progress at the moment, so no criticism there.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: jakub on October 30, 2015, 09:57:51 am
Fuzzy, I think the issue raised by tonyk in this thread
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19102.msg251511.html#msg251511
should definitely be discussed in this coming hangout.

I'm too stupid to understand what the core of the issue is but I do feel that it needs to be addressed by BM asap for two reasons:
- to make sure BM understands tonyk's point of view
- for us to hear BM's point of view and his explanation for non-traders what this is about

IMO it's very dangerous to have such an extreme discrepancy between the devs and the traders.
We need the traders to be happy, especially at this initial stage when liquidity is so low.

Nope!!!!

fuzz(y) has a strict policy against asking any question of mine....so sorry but no!!!

I'm trying hard but don't understand your attitude, tonyk.
And I don't care about you playing games with BM.

Either you are right and BM needs to do something about it or you are not right and BM should explain why.

So it's up to fuzzy to decide what to do about it.
I'm not asking fuzzy to ask "your question" because he's not a trader and his understanding of those issues might be limited (as it is the case with me).
All I am asking is to make sure BM has a chance to explain what the issue is (as you failed to do so) and what his point of view in this regard is.

And you are in no position, tonyk, to dictate what is being discussed in a mumble hangout.
It's free for everyone to discuss whatever one feels is important.
For me this issue is important as it might affect liquidity.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: jakub on October 30, 2015, 10:03:51 am
What is next for bitshares?   Is there a timeframe for the next announcement?
And this nicely correlates with my question: when will the official road-map be updated to reflect CNX priorities regarding BTS after the 2.0 launch?
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: lzr1900 on October 30, 2015, 10:52:47 am

What is next for bitshares?   Is there a timeframe for the next announcement?
And this nicely correlates with my question: when will the official road-map be updated to reflect CNX priorities regarding BTS after the 2.0 launch?
same here
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: fuzzy on October 30, 2015, 12:19:18 pm
Fuzzy, I think the issue raised by tonyk in this thread
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19102.msg251511.html#msg251511
should definitely be discussed in this coming hangout.

I'm too stupid to understand what the core of the issue is but I do feel that it needs to be addressed by BM asap for two reasons:
- to make sure BM understands tonyk's point of view
- for us to hear BM's point of view and his explanation for non-traders what this is about

IMO it's very dangerous to have such an extreme discrepancy between the devs and the traders.
We need the traders to be happy, especially at this initial stage when liquidity is so low.

Nope!!!!

fuzz(y) has a strict policy against asking any question of mine....so sorry but no!!!

Amazing how much i do and still get shat on by you tony.  In case you havent noticed...you dont tend to ask questions in our questions threads.  What you are doing by saying this is my policy is a blatant lie. Over time i hope people realize this (though i suspect most have already). 
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: Stan on October 30, 2015, 12:38:14 pm

What is next for bitshares?   Is there a timeframe for the next announcement?
And this nicely correlates with my question: when will the official road-map be updated to reflect CNX priorities regarding BTS after the 2.0 launch?
same here

If I actually posted a roadmap of partners and projects, I'd get lambasted for premature hype.

:)
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: topcandle on October 30, 2015, 12:51:33 pm

What is next for bitshares?   Is there a timeframe for the next announcement?
And this nicely correlates with my question: when will the official road-map be updated to reflect CNX priorities regarding BTS after the 2.0 launch?
same here

If I actually posted a roadmap of partners and projects, I'd get lambasted for premature hype.

:)

I'm not asking for a roadmap.  I'm looking for what's the next date to look forward to.  And whats the general milestones you will hit then.  Even something like, we hope to bring in a handful of partners.  No need to quantify.  No need to go into any details. 
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: fuzzy on October 30, 2015, 12:53:59 pm
What is next for bitshares?   Is there a timeframe for the next announcement?
And this nicely correlates with my question: when will the official road-map be updated to reflect CNX priorities regarding BTS after the 2.0 launch?

In case you havent realized jakub, tony likes to try to pick on people and really doesnt seem to know how to work with others.  I have never kept his questions from being asked.  Instead, he'd rather simply complain and offer absolutely nothing of value (unless dragging largely selfless helpers' faces through the mud counts.)

Sorry for saying it this way, but im starting to tire of tony attacking everyone and never wanting to give a substantive answer or input.  However, id love tony to prove me wrong and show everyone the thread or publically available material proof that it is my policy to not cover his questions concerns. 

Oh, hey tony, while some people like you could afford to go to las vegas, i was staying back and saving money so i could continue helping this project.  Really sucks that you think so little of me man...because you are obviously about as ignorant about me as it comes (yet can somehow slander my name and act as though its based on fact). 

I say this not for my or tony's sake. I say it because it is often important to look at the actions of a person as opposed to what they say.  @jakub, please do a search on tonyk on our forums and look at the pattern of his behavior.  Then please do a forum seqrch and see what i do in this community and you will see a stark difference.  While some of us know how rocky the road is and weather both the storm of his ire and the real world problems with running a decentralized community, some of us dont take any responsibility for bts' struggles and step up--its far easier to say "it will fail, just watch...and its because of THIS PERSON NOT LISTENING TO ME!"

However, i have thick enough skin to deal with this.  What does piss me off (yep i said it and mean it) is that after i and my team spend thousands of hours for basically nothing (and then put it back into bts system), that tony would be so willing to lie--and seemingly not even to help bitshares...but instead with the modus operandi of simply hurting others. Participate in our discussions yourself tony.  Or write them in a thread like everyone else.  Start blaming yourself and your lack of initiative. 
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: Stan on October 30, 2015, 12:57:51 pm

What is next for bitshares?   Is there a timeframe for the next announcement?
And this nicely correlates with my question: when will the official road-map be updated to reflect CNX priorities regarding BTS after the 2.0 launch?
same here

If I actually posted a roadmap of partners and projects, I'd get lambasted for premature hype.

:)

I'm not asking for a roadmap.  I'm looking for what's the next date to look forward to.  And whats the general milestones you will hit then.  Even something like, we hope to bring in a handful of partners.  No need to quantify.  No need to go into any details.

We have a nice group of motivated business development guys who I'm pretty happy with helping us to bring in partners and investors and clients.  I'm having several such conversations per week.

Partners and investors and clients are good things to have.  They make everything else possible.

Meanwhile, BitShares has the ability to decide its own next moves.  What will they be?

Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: topcandle on October 31, 2015, 02:43:26 am

What is next for bitshares?   Is there a timeframe for the next announcement?
And this nicely correlates with my question: when will the official road-map be updated to reflect CNX priorities regarding BTS after the 2.0 launch?
same here

If I actually posted a roadmap of partners and projects, I'd get lambasted for premature hype.

:)

I'm not asking for a roadmap.  I'm looking for what's the next date to look forward to.  And whats the general milestones you will hit then.  Even something like, we hope to bring in a handful of partners.  No need to quantify.  No need to go into any details.

We have a nice group of motivated business development guys who I'm pretty happy with helping us to bring in partners and investors and clients.  I'm having several such conversations per week.

Partners and investors and clients are good things to have.  They make everything else possible.

Meanwhile, BitShares has the ability to decide its own next moves.  What will they be?

Lets do prediction markets like augur and truthcoin and bond markets to complement.  We immediately win a newly created business category cause we have resolved scalability.  This will take us to jupiter. 
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: Stan on October 31, 2015, 03:15:18 am

What is next for bitshares?   Is there a timeframe for the next announcement?
And this nicely correlates with my question: when will the official road-map be updated to reflect CNX priorities regarding BTS after the 2.0 launch?
same here

If I actually posted a roadmap of partners and projects, I'd get lambasted for premature hype.

:)

I'm not asking for a roadmap.  I'm looking for what's the next date to look forward to.  And whats the general milestones you will hit then.  Even something like, we hope to bring in a handful of partners.  No need to quantify.  No need to go into any details.

We have a nice group of motivated business development guys who I'm pretty happy with helping us to bring in partners and investors and clients.  I'm having several such conversations per week.

Partners and investors and clients are good things to have.  They make everything else possible.

Meanwhile, BitShares has the ability to decide its own next moves.  What will they be?

Lets do prediction markets like augur and truthcoin and bond markets to complement.  We immediately win a newly created business category cause we have resolved scalability.  This will take us to jupiter.

Ok.  :)
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: tonyk on October 31, 2015, 03:28:40 am
It's been 12+ hour. Any raw recordings yet?

or someone can just confirm fuzzy did not bother asking my questions.[no censorship, just the 'no time for them' excuse]
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: carpet ride on October 31, 2015, 03:29:52 am

It's been 12+ hour. Any raw recordings yet?

or someone can just confirm fuzzy did not bother asking my questions.[no censorship, just the 'no time for them' excuse]

Testzcrypto on soundcloud has one.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: tonyk on October 31, 2015, 03:30:24 am

It's been 12+ hour. Any raw recordings yet?

or someone can just confirm fuzzy did not bother asking my questions.[no censorship, just the 'no time for them' excuse]

Testzcrypto on soundcloud has one.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: cube on October 31, 2015, 03:35:49 am

It's been 12+ hour. Any raw recordings yet?

or someone can just confirm fuzzy did not bother asking my questions.[no censorship, just the 'no time for them' excuse]

Testzcrypto on soundcloud has one.
Thanks.

For the eager ones: -

https://soundcloud.com/testzcrypto/e114-2015-10-30-developer-hangout-with-bytemaster
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: tonyk on October 31, 2015, 05:15:01 am
So, you did ask it fuzz! +5% for that.

The only thing left is BM ducking the follow up question "Why was  it  kept hidden for well after launch."

But it is a great step on fuzzy's part.  You see, fuzz, it is not that dangerous to ask the tough questions  - even the long winded prelude that 'the q does not come from you', is not necessary, and can be cut to: "Here is what XYZ asks..."
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: jakub on October 31, 2015, 01:08:30 pm
So, you did ask it fuzz! +5% for that.

The only thing left is BM ducking the follow up question "Why was  it  kept hidden for well after launch."

But it is a great step on fuzzy's part.  You see, fuzz, it is not that dangerous to ask the tough questions  - even the long winded prelude that 'the q does not come from you', is not necessary, and can be cut to: "Here is what XYZ asks..."

@tonyk, I'm starting to think you actually enjoy being misunderstood.
From now on I'm going to be very careful when walking over your sarcastic minefield and shall not take a single word of yours at its face value.

Nevertheless, I begin to suspect that your whole point boils down to the conclusion that actually nothing is wrong with the current trading rules and you are just upset that those rules were not communicated clearly before Oct 13th.
Is this correct, tonyk?
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: tonyk on October 31, 2015, 03:22:16 pm
So, you did ask it fuzz! +5% for that.

The only thing left is BM ducking the follow up question "Why was  it  kept hidden for well after launch."

But it is a great step on fuzzy's part.  You see, fuzz, it is not that dangerous to ask the tough questions  - even the long winded prelude that 'the q does not come from you', is not necessary, and can be cut to: "Here is what XYZ asks..."

@tonyk, I'm starting to think you actually enjoy being misunderstood.
From now on I'm going to be very careful when walking over your sarcastic minefield and shall not take a single word of yours at its face value.

Nevertheless, I begin to suspect that your whole point boils down to the conclusion that actually nothing is wrong with the current trading rules and you are just upset that those rules were not communicated clearly before Oct 13th.
Is this correct, tonyk?
Nope - the hiding of the new rules is indeed truly real bad element of the whole story, but the rules themselves are bad enough on their own.

So, BM claims that the 'screw the shorts' rate is there, so to have less dependency on feeds. Yet the actual number is derived by multiplying the feed price by this rate. How is this making us less dependent of feeds is beyond my ability to comprehend.

The above being the rules, this leads "to expecting the sellers to sell for less when they can sell for more" - that is according to BM's believes, "in a liquid market" he says "that's is to be expected."

 For me this is basing the market  on an expectation for illogical behavior from the market participants.

PS
The believe by BM , and I think some people around here agree with his logic, is that the bitUSD sellers [in a deep and liquid market] will compete with each other and so they will drive the price down... where I see this lacking logic is - so, they will compete for some possible but uncertain trade at lower price, when on the order book exist real available party to which they can sell? And seller at higher price? => expectations for illogical behavior by your model guys.

PSS
The whole debate, would have been more clear to more people if everybody was using the standard pricing we see in our local stores - i.e.  0.47 USD for a can of coke, corn with a price of 2usd/pound etc. But some people insist that the *right* way to express prices is "6.6808 cans of coke for 3.14USD, houses with an offer price of 4.54e-6 houses per dollar etc", so it becomes even harder to follow who is saying what....when one says higher does he really means lower, is it X/1.75  or X*1.75...
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: Tuck Fheman on November 01, 2015, 04:40:33 pm
walking over your sarcastic minefield

Thanks for the lyrics!  :P

Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: jakub on November 02, 2015, 12:57:49 pm
@tonyk, you've been asked this question before:
What are you suggesting should be changed, to make this wheel round? 
And you just replied:
Not trying to discover and/or use new and improved square wheels, comes to mind as a good starting point.
Please propose your solution. Describe it in plain & grammatically correct English where each sentence has a subject and a verb and your sarcastic mode is temporarily switched off. What is the alternative to having the SQP defined as it is now?

I've made an effort and now I can say I fully understand BM's concept of SQP but still I cannot see a major flaw in it.
And I do understand in general terms you saying that BM's concept is based on a false assumption (i.e. according to you it assumes an irrational behavior of market participants).
This is where my understanding ends.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: tonyk on November 02, 2015, 03:34:08 pm
@tonyk, you've been asked this question before:
What are you suggesting should be changed, to make this wheel round? 
And you just replied:
Not trying to discover and/or use new and improved square wheels, comes to mind as a good starting point.
Please propose your solution. Describe it in plain & grammatically correct English where each sentence has a subject and a verb and your sarcastic mode is temporarily switched off. What is the alternative to having the SQP defined as it is now?

I've made an effort and now I can say I fully understand BM's concept of SQP but still I cannot see a major flaw in it.
And I do understand in general terms you saying that BM's concept is based on a false assumption (i.e. according to you it assumes an irrational behavior of market participants).
This is where my understanding ends.

your write, their is nothing two ad too help u.  He's model is bestest.


PS
@jakub Hope the above is grammatically correct. Sorry, could not find the switch off switch for the sarcasm.
Really sorry but you obviously have not made the attempt to understand what I mean. I have put 3 times more post and explain my point from several different angles. Don't have the time to come with a 4th angle that will make it more clear for those that do not even try to understand it.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: tonyk on November 02, 2015, 04:36:02 pm
I've made an effort and now I can say I fully understand BM's concept of SQP but still I cannot see a major flaw in it.

OK attempt #4

If you understand BM's design you must already know that it requires certain market participants [namely short position holders] to buy assets at price 150% [in the original design]  above the market price [i.e. feed price].

If you find nothing wrong with this, I really do not think any argument in any language [even perfect English] will make you change your mind.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: carpet ride on November 02, 2015, 04:38:06 pm

I've made an effort and now I can say I fully understand BM's concept of SQP but still I cannot see a major flaw in it.

OK attempt #4

If you understand BM's design you must already know that it requires certain market participants [namely short position holders] to buy assets at price 150% [in the original design]  above the market price [i.e. feed price].

If you find nothing wrong with this, I really do not think any argument in any language [even perfect English] will make you change your mind.

What would you recommend, 100% instead of 150%?
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: tonyk on November 02, 2015, 04:49:30 pm
@jakub

Attempt # 77

If you are protecting someone from paying too much you say - you will pay up to [read no mere than] 10% above market price.

and not like it is now - You will pay 50% above market price, but NOT LESS than that.


 carpet ride - 10% could be fine[ although I personally do not see the reason for more than 3%] if, and only if, it is up to 10% as described above.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: tonyk on November 02, 2015, 05:07:54 pm
@jakub are you Nathan by any chance?

I do appreciate the humor in ' "allowing" 1.75x collateral, but requiring 2.625x collateral at the start of 2.0 ' . I do think he has this kind of humor and that's why I think he is the one that came with this idea...and laughed his ass off during the first few days.
Title: Re: Beyond Bitcoin (CNX) Hangout w/ Bytemaster @ 10AM EST
Post by: jakub on November 02, 2015, 05:52:16 pm
If you are protecting someone from paying too much you say - you will pay up to [read no mere than] 10% above market price.
and not like it is now - You will pay 50% above market price, but NOT LESS than that.

Let's talk about the USD:BTS market, i.e. prices indicate how many BTS you need to pay for 1 USD, e.g. 250 BTS/USD.

My understanding of BM's SQP concept is this: if you are a short position holder and you are in a margin-call situation (i.e. lowest ask is above your call price) you are guaranteed that you will not be margin-called with a price worse than SQP.
In other words, you will be protected from being margin-called until the longs offer you a decent price within 50% of the feed (i.e. the lowest ask is below SQP). In that sense you are actually protected: the margin call will either not happen at all or, when it does happen, it will be executed at a price not worse than SQP.

So why do you say that a short position holder will pay 50% above market price, but NOT LESS than that?
For me the opposite is true, if he is margin-called he will pay 50% above the feed or LESS.

EDIT: I've revised my opinion and expressed in the other thread:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19102.msg252973.html#msg252973
My general conclusion is this: @tonyk and @Xeldal are right - we do have a problem and it needs to be addressed asap.