166
General Discussion / Re: If you could start any Bitshares business...
« on: May 10, 2015, 12:08:20 am »
Because the core rules are changing, this do harm to these businesses. We need time to get stable rules.
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167
General Discussion / Re: BitAsset 2.0 Requirements & Implied Design
« on: May 05, 2015, 03:20:16 pm »
A very important question:
Can the shorts use the collateral to cover their orders?
the longs can directly buy BTS, but the shorts can not use their collateral even the collateral is enough.
THIS IS WHAT I FOUND ON NXT FORUM:
"
Within 9 days my position was down near 10%. I decided I would take the loss and exit the trade.
Well, in attempting to close the trade, I kept getting error messages saying I didn't have enough bitUSD to buy back what I shorted.
I thought maybe this was a bug with one of the updated versions. I went to the forums and posted my problem.
To my surprise I was told I was stuck unless I went and bought more BTS and then bought more bitUSD to cover my existing short even though I had enough BTS locked in collateral to buy near 2 times the amount of BTS I had shorted.
"
Can the shorts use the collateral to cover their orders?
the longs can directly buy BTS, but the shorts can not use their collateral even the collateral is enough.
THIS IS WHAT I FOUND ON NXT FORUM:
"
Within 9 days my position was down near 10%. I decided I would take the loss and exit the trade.
Well, in attempting to close the trade, I kept getting error messages saying I didn't have enough bitUSD to buy back what I shorted.
I thought maybe this was a bug with one of the updated versions. I went to the forums and posted my problem.
To my surprise I was told I was stuck unless I went and bought more BTS and then bought more bitUSD to cover my existing short even though I had enough BTS locked in collateral to buy near 2 times the amount of BTS I had shorted.
"
168
General Discussion / Re: How to regain confidence?
« on: April 30, 2015, 03:21:16 am »
I have a feeling. Many communities use the dicentralised tech to do centralised service. There are some team outside the crypo world doing decentralised service use centralised tech.
170
General Discussion / Re: BitAsset 3.0 Concerns
« on: April 29, 2015, 10:04:44 am »
As long as the BTA is well backed, people can hold BTA with no worry.
The stable value of BTA comes from pegging--- a market make action (like Nubits) or merchant adoption.
So the primay purpose is to make BTA well backed, we need a strong BTS price. The market need to let the shorter in advantage, not the BTA holder. At least the shorter need to be equal to the BTA holder.
Edit:
As for the interest, there is no need for the system to pay to BTA holder. It is like people do not get interest for the money in his hand, but for money in the bank. BTA holders need to invest their money to a investment fund to get interest. The bank pay interest because it uses the money to make more money.
The system interest need to pay the system shareholder: longterm BTS holder.That is a very important reason they hold the share----because the share generate value.
If not, then the shareholder must sell the shares to get profit. That is a pure price speculation, and overall the shareholder group as a hole will finally fail for just giving value to other groups(the 101 and BTA holders), but get little.
The stable value of BTA comes from pegging--- a market make action (like Nubits) or merchant adoption.
So the primay purpose is to make BTA well backed, we need a strong BTS price. The market need to let the shorter in advantage, not the BTA holder. At least the shorter need to be equal to the BTA holder.
Edit:
As for the interest, there is no need for the system to pay to BTA holder. It is like people do not get interest for the money in his hand, but for money in the bank. BTA holders need to invest their money to a investment fund to get interest. The bank pay interest because it uses the money to make more money.
The system interest need to pay the system shareholder: longterm BTS holder.That is a very important reason they hold the share----because the share generate value.
If not, then the shareholder must sell the shares to get profit. That is a pure price speculation, and overall the shareholder group as a hole will finally fail for just giving value to other groups(the 101 and BTA holders), but get little.
171
中文 (Chinese) / Re: BTS这个模式感觉就有问题，我无法理解，请高手解答。
« on: April 28, 2015, 02:56:12 pm »如何能保证bta的锚定，又能及时回收是个麻烦。不一定要回收。如果将BTA将做钱来用，那么就是允许储蓄的，不能被回收。
除非明确认识到BTA不适合作为钱的事实。
172
General Discussion / Re: BitAsset 3.0 Concerns
« on: April 28, 2015, 02:19:49 pm »
if we want to save BTS, we need the market is in balance, or even a little better for shorts.
Though there will be a little more BTA in the market, the BTA will be well backed. And we need not to worry about the BTA amount, as long as it can be pegged by money changer.
Though there will be a little more BTA in the market, the BTA will be well backed. And we need not to worry about the BTA amount, as long as it can be pegged by money changer.
173
General Discussion / Re: BitAsset 3.0 Concerns
« on: April 28, 2015, 05:22:21 am »Take a seat first.Start sounds better than you original proposal now.
Edit:
This is not good, as u did not consider the case that no one want short.
1. We need to enable interest rate range from positive to negative. If large demand of USD or no one want short, shorter can set the interest to negative, to hedge some risk. If people do not want USD, but some people still want to short, then they can set the interest to positive, to encourage people hold USD.
2. We need to enable the monthly reset collateral rate to 200%, for the short order that collateral no more than 200%. Shorter can chose add their collateral, or cover this short. Short order that with collateral rate more than 200% no need cover, the part of collateral more than 200% will be automatically return to shorter.
3. If we have 1 and 2, I agree with your force-settlement. But we shall only force settle the bitUSD that are listed in the sell side market. This will give potential bitUSD buyer a chance to buy the bitUSD, this can reduce unnecessary settlement and reduce settle-attack. Force-settle will force the short order that will the less collateral rate first, and the oldest order settle first.
从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk
I think the second and third sounds reasonable. The first one need specify how to do that.
174
General Discussion / Re: BitAsset 3.0 Concerns
« on: April 28, 2015, 05:14:41 am »
it is hard to fix all the problem, but we can concern on the main and most important problem. Make discisions on this, and we then consider how to solve other problem under the structure.
175
中文 (Chinese) / Re: 比特资产改善讨论方案：BTA3.0
« on: April 25, 2015, 04:05:57 pm »我觉得我的bitasset 4.0才是最好的。如果真的要用这个版本，我将彻底退出BTS。每个人看好的方向不一样的。
从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk
176
中文 (Chinese) / Re: 翻译了一下lastagile的帖子和蛋哥的回复，大家看下讨论下吧
« on: April 25, 2015, 10:37:44 am »30天的期限是个问题。太过强制，应该说用户自行选择，或者永不平仓直到强制平仓，但是有期限的活跃度高，可以提高优先级。不然就是帖子里说的无限循环下跌，事实也是这样，持有BTA的人就是在不断的看空BTS。而short的人却要TM的双倍的钱来做多。力量悬殊太大了。公平的情况应该是持有BTA的人要BTS继续降价，必须再继续砸BTS，而不是short的人自己来砸盘来平仓。对，好的方案，应该解决这个问题。
177
General Discussion / Re: My proposal of BITAsset 4.0
« on: April 25, 2015, 10:07:13 am »This can not happen, as many BITUSD are not placed on market.
I mean the shorter can just spare some of the "collateral" to cover his order.
Of course they need to buy BTA at market price.
So if there is no enough BTA sell order at the order book, the shorter can just wait or buy BTA at a higher price.
178
General Discussion / Re: My proposal of BITAsset 4.0
« on: April 25, 2015, 09:45:11 am »
I do not think bitAsset holders need to pay interest.
Because BTA long side selling bts is a market behavior, they just do a normal exchange——equal value BTS to BTA. So bitAsset holders do not owe anyone.
Make the shorts and longs in equal position.
Our purpose is let the market run very long time. So the market need to keep in balance. The longs and shorts are two sides of the market. If it is not equal, the market will fail to continue some day.
Problem of BitAsset Now
Now in BitAsset, the BTA shorters have an expiring date, but the BTA holders have not. This means holding BTA have advantage than holding BTS（or the bts collateral）. So the BTA holders are winner, and BTS price is falling all the way.
Problem of BitAsset 3.0
In BitAsset 3.0, there is no solid time limit for BTA shorter too. But BTA holders have another advantage: can settle back BTS whenever they want. This leads to the same result as now.
And the settlement makes BTA not currencies any more. If we want to create BTA as currencies, then we just need to let BTA can buy BTS whenever they want.
What you called settlement seems not basic function of currencies, but some kind of bond. Correc me if I make mistakes.
For a healthy market:
if market mainly want to sell, sellers need place lower price orders to match buyers'.This leads the price to go down.
if market mainly want to buy, buyers need place higher price orders to match sellers'. This leads the price to go up.
In BitAsset 3.0, the settlement function make the market do not work normally. Hold BitAsset to get BTS, will not leads BTS price go up, but Hold BTS to get BitAsset leads BTS price to go down.
New proposal by xiahui135
Firstly, we need equal shorts' and longs' market position. So they can match each other, react to each other's action.
1、cancel short orders' time limit;
2、let shorts can cover at any amount.
Secondly, we should guarantee the system‘s safety.
3、force bad collateralized shorts to cover at a market price (like other futures)
4、the trading fee is interest, and can be paid to BTS holder (as stake holder)
Because BTA long side selling bts is a market behavior, they just do a normal exchange——equal value BTS to BTA. So bitAsset holders do not owe anyone.
Make the shorts and longs in equal position.
Our purpose is let the market run very long time. So the market need to keep in balance. The longs and shorts are two sides of the market. If it is not equal, the market will fail to continue some day.
Problem of BitAsset Now
Now in BitAsset, the BTA shorters have an expiring date, but the BTA holders have not. This means holding BTA have advantage than holding BTS（or the bts collateral）. So the BTA holders are winner, and BTS price is falling all the way.
Problem of BitAsset 3.0
In BitAsset 3.0, there is no solid time limit for BTA shorter too. But BTA holders have another advantage: can settle back BTS whenever they want. This leads to the same result as now.
And the settlement makes BTA not currencies any more. If we want to create BTA as currencies, then we just need to let BTA can buy BTS whenever they want.
What you called settlement seems not basic function of currencies, but some kind of bond. Correc me if I make mistakes.
For a healthy market:
if market mainly want to sell, sellers need place lower price orders to match buyers'.This leads the price to go down.
if market mainly want to buy, buyers need place higher price orders to match sellers'. This leads the price to go up.
In BitAsset 3.0, the settlement function make the market do not work normally. Hold BitAsset to get BTS, will not leads BTS price go up, but Hold BTS to get BitAsset leads BTS price to go down.
New proposal by xiahui135
Firstly, we need equal shorts' and longs' market position. So they can match each other, react to each other's action.
1、cancel short orders' time limit;
2、let shorts can cover at any amount.
Secondly, we should guarantee the system‘s safety.
3、force bad collateralized shorts to cover at a market price (like other futures)
4、the trading fee is interest, and can be paid to BTS holder (as stake holder)
179
General Discussion / Re: I think BITASSETs 3.0 will not work (original post are too long)
« on: April 25, 2015, 07:50:57 am »
I think I have to add some.
BTA short position is different from loan.
If you loan from someone, he gives you the right to use his resource. You benefit from the loan, and need to pay interest.
But BTA long side sell bts is a market behavior. They get money from this, and can withdraw to their bank account, can buy something. So the long do not have the right to call back.
The market have the right to call back from short. Only when the collateral is not enough.
In effect a short position is a "loan" that is callable based upon price or X day notice.
BTA short position is different from loan.
If you loan from someone, he gives you the right to use his resource. You benefit from the loan, and need to pay interest.
But BTA long side sell bts is a market behavior. They get money from this, and can withdraw to their bank account, can buy something. So the long do not have the right to call back.
The market have the right to call back from short. Only when the collateral is not enough.
180
General Discussion / Re: BitAssets 3.0 - For Community Review
« on: April 25, 2015, 07:47:45 am »
In effect a short position is a "loan" that is callable based upon price or X day notice.
BTA short position is different from loan.
If you loan from someone, he loan the right to use his resource. You benefit from the loan, and need to pay interest.
But BTA long side sell bts is a market behavior. They get money from this, and can withdraw to their bank account, can buy something. So the long do not have the right to call back.
The market have the right to call back from short. Only when the collateral is not enough.
