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中文 (Chinese) / Re: 斗胆预测下BTS的价格!
« on: June 27, 2014, 01:36:51 am »LZ看来还是保守啊,BTS如果低于50RMB一个,基本上大部分人都算投资失败了。低于20元一个,那大部分人都会亏本了。对于价格我在短期内持悲观态度。
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LZ看来还是保守啊,BTS如果低于50RMB一个,基本上大部分人都算投资失败了。低于20元一个,那大部分人都会亏本了。对于价格我在短期内持悲观态度。
DPOS不适合用在BTSX上,用在赌球类需要引入现实数据的DAC有用,BTSX的代表会导致很多问题,也许现在市值低不会出什么问题,因为无利可图,但是一定支撑不到大市值,这基本是可以肯定的……我旗帜鲜明地反对DPOS用在BTSX上……
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对绝大部分人来说,也包括我,不想玩这个还要去考虑投票给谁的问题,人们只是希望打开钱包就能收发转账就好,至于其他事,普通用户根本不想操心,简单实用,才能被市场认同。
仅仅是靠拉票选代表已经给人感觉这个制度有腐败的嫌疑,除非3I能设计出一套非常智慧的体系,但是目前我没有看到,而且看到前几天的讨论我甚至有一种DPOS以后是代表独裁制的趋势。美国崇尚自由与平等,对我们来说这样的渴望更强烈,如果DPOS里的代表的权利过大的话,我只有一种自己被代表绑架的感觉,要看代表的脸色,这不是我要的自由。
实际上要考虑的问题还很多,1%不行,我敢说10%就可以在很长一段时间內都没人能把我踢出了。投票率就是一个,还有另外一个问题就是,一旦发现做恶的代表,需要全体持有者去手动淘汰,大多数人可能几天几个月都不关注这个,我就用个币而已,谁想操心这个。DDPOS的学习理解成本太高。不得不说DDPOS是个馊主意,甚至是倒退。
是的,就算难以51%攻击(尽管我觉得这个攻击成本要低于其他算法),我就赖在代表里面捣乱恶心你都可以,你是拿我一点办法都没有的,只要我有超过最后一名代表得票率的币数。这个逻辑bm要好好理理……当然DPOS有不少好处,但是用在BTS X上绝对不适合。可以用在赌球DAC之类……
Delegates can only be fired when someone produces a transaction with crypto-graphic proof that a delegate has signed a false statement (multiple blocks for the same time, or declared a transaction to be included in the chain when it wasn't).
YesSo you can vote for 101 delegates ?33% ensures a spot as delegate
After more thinking I have increased this requirement in the latest dry run... no one is ever assured a spot
Can you please describe how we are going to kick the evil delegate out of the top 101 since we can't vote against ?Hi heyD, I hope this explanation helps:
Is it still a whack-a-mole game if the evil delegate owns a large amount of shares and can vote himself (another account) back ?
the "whack-a-mole" term comes from the idea of trying to vote down a delegate who then switches his support to another delegate he controls and then you have to switch your downvote etc. This doesn't apply to approval voting because you don't need to actively downvote delegates. In some sense you are by default already downvoting every delegate that you haven't actively decided to upvote.
Unlike in the previous system, the evil delegate can't vote himself in on his own because he needs much more support to get elected. His stake is not enough to compete with delegates that have support from the whole community. If he switches to a new delegate he is starting all over from scratch with no votes and no trust and it will take him a long time to get supporters.
People need to build trust from the community to get elected. If they then reveal themselves to be evil (or more likely incompetent) the community will pull their support quickly in favor of better alternatives. You get rid of bad delegates by simply keeping a bit of an eye on the delegates you voted for to make sure they performing well and if they don't, you remove your vote for them and vote for someone else instead.
这样的话,如果一个拥有超过1%币的人是否永远无法被踢出(就算它做恶)?因为只要自己投自己就能确保在前100名,如何踢出这类代表?
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但是,也需考虑到负面因素:1、你信任的受托人不一定是稳定出块的人,也许只是因为你投给了你的朋友,这样很可能会出现”买票“行为;2、受托人一旦被多数人持续肯定,那么就意味着他需”永远“开动服务器出块,这等于变相绑架了受托人的选择权。建议在客户端给受托人留有”quit“选项。
不懂,如果排名头几名的突然反水作恶,或者被攻击,怎么及时把他们换下来?
Strange that my delegates too-young and too-simple are always missing blocks. They are among the top 101.Code: [Select]heyddryrun5 (unlocked) >>> wallet_list_my_accounts
NAME (* delegate) KEY REGISTERED FAVORITE TRUST LEVEL BLOCK PRODUCTION ENABLED
heyd-naive XTS54aGvENZaziDPoTBWB8DVFzcTpezKm8stU7kbpQ7yuZZ483pzN 2014-06-24T01:26:30 NO 0 N/A
heyd-simple XTS6XSi2PDstduVswZycvq8EwenbpERqQUq57QEm6XpbZjPj7XQz3 2014-06-24T01:26:30 NO 0 N/A
heyd-young XTS7YRXr7X4euUsQoEF8R4M9ErGxaNGEKYfpqMNYvHFPSsQpciyLG 2014-06-24T01:26:30 NO 0 N/A
sometimes-naive * XTS5kppbLHPT6JV7aGGXQ3Nu4TvtR1u388uau6Yqv1J9Ni64rnFnc 2014-06-24T02:12:30 NO 10 YES
too-simple * XTS5Def6N9bsueAX2YnvQNKHzbphG1Qx9syKthF9BFFSZZT5EkS3x 2014-06-24T02:12:30 NO 40 YES
too-young * XTS6Kp6598CtJhDVauQwQKVLBZZ34o9W55CR2vhCNRezvKL2KHQtB 2014-06-24T02:12:00 NO 30 YES
too-youngCode: [Select]heyddryrun5 (unlocked) >>> blockchain_get_delegate_block_stats too-young
[[
621,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
713,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
807,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
894,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
962,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1088,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1178,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1278,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1367,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1421,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1510,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1585,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1626,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1713,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1776,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1842,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1892,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1942,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1993,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
2089,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2130,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
2201,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2227,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2301,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2330,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2418,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2482,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2533,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2585,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2598,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2604,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2657,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2704,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2737,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2778,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2824,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2856,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2893,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2967,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
]
]
too-simpleCode: [Select]heyddryrun5 (unlocked) >>> blockchain_get_delegate_block_stats too-simple
[[
639,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
716,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
857,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
971,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1073,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1114,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1202,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1290,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1374,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1470,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1561,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1634,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1772,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1828,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1887,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
1960,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
2011,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
2077,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
2136,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2206,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2277,{
"missed": false,
"latency": null
}
],[
2374,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2451,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2579,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2625,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2653,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2666,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2712,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2742,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2785,{
"missed": false,
"latency": 4294967268
}
],[
2945,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2988,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
],[
2992,{
"missed": true,
"latency": null
}
]
]Code: [Select]heyddryrun5 (unlocked) >>> info
{
"blockchain_head_block_num": 2995,
"blockchain_head_block_time": "20140625T070730",
"blockchain_head_block_time_rel": "57 seconds old",
"blockchain_confirmation_requirement": 303,
"blockchain_average_delegate_participation": 58.179723502304149,
"network_num_connections": 41,
"ntp_time": "20140625T070827.387744",
"ntp_error_seconds": -0.0011310000000000001,
"wallet_unlocked_seconds_remaining": 0,
"wallet_next_block_production_time": "20140625T072400",
"wallet_seconds_until_next_block_production": 933,
"wallet_local_time": "20140625T070827",
"blockchain_random_seed": "57b2e227579fff49c5d77dac4e3588b75169ccc9",
"blockchain_shares": 199999056733994,
"network_num_connections_max": 200,
"network_protocol_version": 103,
"wallet_open": true,
"wallet_unlocked_until": "20140625T061658",
"wallet_version": 100
}Code: [Select]heyddryrun5 (unlocked) >>> about
{
"bitshares_toolkit_revision": "eb5bed05842718ac07ee26a20e264269f62efd42",
"bitshares_toolkit_revision_age": "5 hours ago",
"fc_revision": "3de924b33647a9a547b772a58415835f021f92b3",
"fc_revision_age": "83 hours ago",
"compile_date": "compiled on Jun 25 2014 at 02:29:00"
}
heyddryrun5 (unlocked) >>> wallet_account_transaction_history
BLK .TRX TIMESTAMP FROM TO MEMO AMOUNT FEE ID
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
475.3 2014-06-24T01:27:00 heyd-simple heyd-simple register heyd-young 0.00000 XTS 0.10001 XTS fd713570
475.2 2014-06-24T01:27:00 heyd-simple heyd-simple register heyd-simple 0.00000 XTS 0.10001 XTS d4d3ec6e
475.1 2014-06-24T01:27:00 heyd-simple heyd-simple register heyd-naive 0.00000 XTS 0.10001 XTS 413f7028
548.0 2014-06-24T02:12:30 UNKNOWN UNKNOWN 0.00000 XTS 0.00000 XTS fb12b7a3
pending 2014-06-24T02:12:30 heyd-simple heyd-simple register too-young as a delegate 0.00000 XTS 2.19716 XTS 341cfdce
549.0 2014-06-24T02:13:00 UNKNOWN UNKNOWN 0.00000 XTS 0.00000 XTS 76705286
549.1 2014-06-24T02:13:00 UNKNOWN UNKNOWN 0.00000 XTS 0.00000 XTS e1b5a153
pending 2014-06-24T02:13:00 heyd-simple heyd-simple register sometimes-naive as a d... 0.00000 XTS 2.19716 XTS 5950588d
pending 2014-06-24T02:13:00 heyd-simple heyd-simple register too-simple as a delegate 0.00000 XTS 2.19716 XTS 04c88bc2
I just noticed that the default bandwidth limit may be a cause of forks with the stress testing going on. A delegate with 40 connections that produces a block that is 200KB is going to have a hard time propagating that block with a 100KB / second limit.
There are command line arguments to adjust this and I am increasing the default size.
Strange that my delegates too-young and too-simple are always missing blocks. They are among the top 101.wallet_enable_delegate_block_production ?