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Interesting video that everyone should watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CFlA8TdWmk
You are right, the insurance shares would have to expire or new customers would subsidize old customers.
regardless what you call, you are still:A. accepting liability thus guaranteeing payment in case of loss or damageB. Gambling on an outcomeFor this to be a sustainable profitable business and not a "game of chance", an "educated guess" is required. That would require actuarial tables and decision support beyond the scope of the DAC.Even then, you would suffer from "negative selection", granting coverage to those most likely the highest risk. To spread the risk and stay solvent, you would need to attract a broader universe comprised mostly of those not needing or seeking you.Insurance premiums are more about managing risk and less about market forces and chance.
Would the MAS have relationships with the medical industry to transact the payments of claims? Or would the MAS simply pay the shareholder the relevant amount and not deal with any third parities?
Most people will be paid out immediately because even with normal insurance the claims can be paid from revenue on average.
Note: if the claim is valid, then the risk was there the whole time and the guy who was buying 20% of the insurance was subsidizing everyone else. Also note, that you will eventually receive your payout as the long-run averages are all that matter.Most of these things are just tweaks to the basic framework.
Quote from: JakeThePanda on March 15, 2014, 05:59:16 amQuote from: bytemaster on March 14, 2014, 11:14:07 pmWe build tech for the world and not just the us. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI believe every country has heavy insurance regulations, not just the US. Please enlighten me on why you think this won't be a problem? Trust me, I hope you have a solution.What aspect of insurance is regulated? Is it the taking of funds? The investing of funds? The estimating? Remember, this system is no more an 'insurance company' than Bitcoin is a currency. Who is providing the insurance? Who is promising to pay? Who under this system has any obligations what so ever of a contractual nature that would constitute insurance?
Quote from: bytemaster on March 14, 2014, 11:14:07 pmWe build tech for the world and not just the us. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI believe every country has heavy insurance regulations, not just the US. Please enlighten me on why you think this won't be a problem? Trust me, I hope you have a solution.
We build tech for the world and not just the us. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: bytemaster on March 15, 2014, 06:35:37 amQuote from: JakeThePanda on March 15, 2014, 05:59:16 amQuote from: bytemaster on March 14, 2014, 11:14:07 pmWe build tech for the world and not just the us. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI believe every country has heavy insurance regulations, not just the US. Please enlighten me on why you think this won't be a problem? Trust me, I hope you have a solution.What aspect of insurance is regulated? Is it the taking of funds? The investing of funds? The estimating? Remember, this system is no more an 'insurance company' than Bitcoin is a currency. Who is providing the insurance? Who is promising to pay? Who under this system has any obligations what so ever of a contractual nature that would constitute insurance? I wondered if it might be an idea to think of another name, i.e. not "insurance". If its a fundamentally different system, it maybe deserves a new name, but in so doing this may lead to the natural creation of an appropriately different regulatory framework outside that of classic insurance. As no doubt, someone somewhere will start to try to regulate it. For many people, the word insurance has a negative connotation, so this was another reason for this suggestion.
I'm sorry to doubt the DAC but I have to make this comment. Gov'ts can block this DAC very easily .... Just make it illegal to be an insurance DAC adjuster. How do we adapt?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Isn't insurance a heavily regulated industry here in the US? Won't you need DMV approval for car insurance and I'm sure other types of insurances have regulations, no? I'm not an expert on insurance so I'm just throwing questions out there.
A big potential problem is share distribution and its effect on the claim pool. Since ownership of shares in the DAC insurance policy is anonymous, how can I as a consumer trust that my risk exposure won't fluctuate wildly if someone who holds a significant portion of shares has a large but valid claim. For example, say the claim pool is around 5% of total, on average. I buy shares expecting ~20x their BitUSD value in return if I need to make a claim. Then someone holding 20% of the total shares makes a valid claim which is then added to the claim pool. That 5% jumps to 25% and now if I need to file a claim then the maximum I can expect is ~4x the BitUSD value of the shares.Insurance is all about mitigating risk and traditionally when you buy a policy you know what your premium is as well as the maximum claim amount so you can quantify your risk exposure for the asset that's insured. With this Insurance DAC, while your premium is fixed, the maximum payout has the potential to fluctuate wildly which is counter intuitive to the entire purpose of buying insurance in the first place.
I haven't quite understood the task of the risk adjuster as described in the video. If the adjuster pays out alot in a month how will this affect their trust rating? Surely in a 'bad' month or a hurricane season there may be good reasons for mass payouts. How will the volatility in payouts that therefore may result - for the same type of claim - be addressed? Is there a planned trust rating system for those taking out insurance?
Quote from: fuznuts on March 14, 2014, 12:41:09 amFor those who think Bytemaster doesn't pay attention to your ideas...https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=835.0It seems sometimes he takes the community's ideas and substantially improves them...<asskissing> Wonderful job so far </asskissing>Post your ideas to the Alternative DACs Section here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=9.0Keep it up! We need as much of that kind of kissing as we can get!
For those who think Bytemaster doesn't pay attention to your ideas...https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=835.0It seems sometimes he takes the community's ideas and substantially improves them...<asskissing> Wonderful job so far </asskissing>Post your ideas to the Alternative DACs Section here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=9.0
Shareholders in the DAC make a profit from transaction fees.
I think waiting a month to start receiving payout is to long, perhaps it could be shorter if the adjuster has had a good reputation for a very long time? Also, how do the shareholders in the DAC make a profit?
Quote from: blackbeard on March 13, 2014, 10:05:30 pmQuote from: phoenix on March 13, 2014, 09:58:33 pmQuote from: blackbeard on March 13, 2014, 08:57:03 pmI imagine the hardest part to implement in a decentralized identity/reputation system is how to protect against sybil attacks. Whats to stop me from creating 1000 fake "accounts" and giving the target adjuster shitty reviews?Anybody can advertise the adjuster in a positive or negative light anywhere, not just in the DAC's forum page. But in order to actually affect how much they can spend you have to actually affect the adjuster's prediction market.Ah let me see if I understand what you mean. Let's say that I want to be an adjuster. I create a coin called "bitBeard" to represent my adjusting firm. As people trust me they will purchase more shares in bitBeard which will drive my price up. If I'm on the right track this logic seems to say that my prediction market will go up if I can turn turn a profit. Turning a profit doesn't mean that I'm honestBut if you turn away to many claims, then people will start to complain about you, and your prediction market will fall, while your competitors rise.
Quote from: phoenix on March 13, 2014, 09:58:33 pmQuote from: blackbeard on March 13, 2014, 08:57:03 pmI imagine the hardest part to implement in a decentralized identity/reputation system is how to protect against sybil attacks. Whats to stop me from creating 1000 fake "accounts" and giving the target adjuster shitty reviews?Anybody can advertise the adjuster in a positive or negative light anywhere, not just in the DAC's forum page. But in order to actually affect how much they can spend you have to actually affect the adjuster's prediction market.Ah let me see if I understand what you mean. Let's say that I want to be an adjuster. I create a coin called "bitBeard" to represent my adjusting firm. As people trust me they will purchase more shares in bitBeard which will drive my price up. If I'm on the right track this logic seems to say that my prediction market will go up if I can turn turn a profit. Turning a profit doesn't mean that I'm honest
Quote from: blackbeard on March 13, 2014, 08:57:03 pmI imagine the hardest part to implement in a decentralized identity/reputation system is how to protect against sybil attacks. Whats to stop me from creating 1000 fake "accounts" and giving the target adjuster shitty reviews?Anybody can advertise the adjuster in a positive or negative light anywhere, not just in the DAC's forum page. But in order to actually affect how much they can spend you have to actually affect the adjuster's prediction market.
I imagine the hardest part to implement in a decentralized identity/reputation system is how to protect against sybil attacks. Whats to stop me from creating 1000 fake "accounts" and giving the target adjuster shitty reviews?
This is a very brilliant idea however still not sure how you'll keep the Adjustor honest. Let say that my buddy the Insurance Adjustor award me a false claim of 20000$ insurance witch of course then I split it whit him. How can anyone know that this is a fraud ? Say I will do my best to make it look as real as possible except is not. How can you control this kind of fraud ?
Bytemaster I have to take my hat off to you. This idea could change society for the better and is even bigger than Bitshares.
Why can't we start with this community? We'll all join in and find out if it works in practice.Isn't that the purpose of our community? To help develop and test these new DACs?I think we should be bold and go straight for health insurance. We all will grow old someday and we will all need it. The other insurance we will all need is something to protect us from theft. You and I both know that theft is a major concern and will only get worse.
When I was thinking about economic allegiance systems I was thinking that this is one of the sort of things you could do. I think insurance is really just the tip of the iceberg really for the kinds of organizations you can build. We have to start somewhere though and insurance is a great place to start.
http://vimeo.com/user24356268/review/88861284/1789918b92
Quote from: onceuponatime on March 13, 2014, 04:37:01 amThis is an awesome idea in theory - but would be very complex to put in to practice. I would suggest before attempting to take on car or health insurance something much simpler be attempted first to get the ball rolling. Perhaps flight cancellation insurance. Maybe simple term life insurance for a young couple starting a family (although the regulatory hurdles might be daunting.Or are you thinking of the mutual aid society as being a very small homogeneous group where everyone is known to each other? (a church group, neighborhood benevolent society, etc)?I intuit as being extremely difficult to start on any large scale.That's the beauty of it. Once the code is released, let a thousand BitBlossoms bloom.Fraternities can issue exam insurance for their members. Small-scale international traders can issue vendor or bribe insurance. Gamers can issue orc insurance.Like Zombo.com, the only limit is your imagination.
This is an awesome idea in theory - but would be very complex to put in to practice. I would suggest before attempting to take on car or health insurance something much simpler be attempted first to get the ball rolling. Perhaps flight cancellation insurance. Maybe simple term life insurance for a young couple starting a family (although the regulatory hurdles might be daunting.Or are you thinking of the mutual aid society as being a very small homogeneous group where everyone is known to each other? (a church group, neighborhood benevolent society, etc)?I intuit as being extremely difficult to start on any large scale.