BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: merivercap on February 25, 2015, 01:15:12 am
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Just curious what you guys think.. maybe from the mainstream perspective and the Bitcoiner perspective....
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> Biggest misconceptions or obstacles needed to overcome for adoption of BTS?
That's easy: It's the people
Reason: People don't understand the advantages of a decentralized exchange with market pegged assets .. not yet ..
Can you remember 2009 when the bitcoin paper was published and no one cared?
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> Biggest misconceptions or obstacles needed to overcome for adoption of BTS?
That's easy: It's the people
Reason: People don't understand the advantages of a decentralized exchange with market pegged assets .. not yet ..
Can you remember 2009 when the bitcoin paper was published and no one cared?
But what specifically about the people? Bitcoin is difficult to understand. Money is also difficult to understand. bitUSD I suspect is easier to understand... ELI5 is important. I changed the title a bit and I think your comment on the other thread fits here better.
for me the biggest thing is that you can own (a percentage) of the system by holding BTS (NOTES or whatever the base asset is) ..
You can actually telly your friends:
- I own a bank
- I own a stock exchange
- I own a forex
- I own a music industry :)
- I own a gambling industry :)
....
I think that is a compelling way to describe it. On one hand it may be overwhelming to describe all those various systems and maybe better to select the few industries that interests someone the most..... on the other hand I can imagine an infomercial/sales pitch that will go through that whole laundry list of DACs... bank, stock exchange.. foreign exchange.. etc.. and ending with 'You can have the whole shebang for a limited time of $9.99 per share..... hurry before this offer ends...!'...
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(http://img.chinainternetwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/China-Online-Retail-Market-2006-2020.png)
1. Increased liquidity
2. Slick one-click mobile design
3. Easy ecommerce integration
4. ? ? ?
5. PROFIT
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Here are 2 misconceived/FUD points that I often hear people mention:
-BitShares is centralized! There are only 101 delegates.
-The peg will never work! As soon as there is a margin call, margin calls will cascade and the whole thing will collapse and BitUSD will be black-swaned into nothing.
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Here are 2 misconceived/FUD points that I often hear people mention:
-BitShares is centralized! There are only 101 delegates.
-The peg will never work! As soon as there is a margin call, margin calls will cascade and the whole thing will collapse and BitUSD will be black-swaned into nothing.
Wow @2
mI thought you can even see the margin call in a graphical representation at btsblocks.com .. so that reason is just misinformation, i.e. FUD ..
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Yeah that idea of cascading margin calls has become really popular since that Preston article. What they dont get/like to ignore is that the margin call takes place on the internal exchange, and has no effect on how much the BTS collateral is actually worth on the external exchanges, therefore cascading margin calls is just a nice soundbite.
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(http://img.chinainternetwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/China-Online-Retail-Market-2006-2020.png)
1. Increased liquidity
2. Slick one-click mobile design
3. Easy ecommerce integration
4. ? ? ?
5. PROFIT
Yeah huge market. Nice chart. You'll probably need gateways for retailers.
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Here are 2 misconceived/FUD points that I often hear people mention:
-BitShares is centralized! There are only 101 delegates.
-The peg will never work! As soon as there is a margin call, margin calls will cascade and the whole thing will collapse and BitUSD will be black-swaned into nothing.
What would be your answers?
I would say:
-101 delegate positions are meant to replace the concentration of mining pools and is more decentralized.
How do you answer the second one? In the unlikely event BTS falls by 67%, bitUSD holders will get 100% worth the collateral in BTS.
BTW transaction fees will be the main revenue source in the long run to maintain the value of BTS. What kind of transaction fees & volume do we have currently and do we have something that tracks that? I couldn't find it in the blockexplorer. Thanks.
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One big hurdle in adoption is that BTS is 'pre-mined' and the early stakeholders control it. I had that reaction and that's what turned me off initially when I first learned about it in a webinar late last year. Bytemaster responded very well to Andreas Antonopoulus's questions about it here: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-129-dogeparty-and-delegated-proof-of-stake
I agree logically and economically the way BTS was created and has grown makes perfect sense as a startup business, but it is a very difficult psychological hurdle to overcome, especially with something that is perceived as sacred as money. I also don't like the feeling of being a late adopter and it's the same problem Bitcoin had when prices started rising quickly.... It's the economics of envy as Bytemaster mentioned. I'm an anarchocapitalist and it took me a while to overcome the psychological hurdle so I can't imagine what the average person would have to go through to understand. Sometimes I wonder if a 100% freely distributed coin with built in referral incentives and inflation going to development might not be more appealing for mass marketing and network effect. On the other hand when people buy something, people value it more, perceive it to have greater value, have a greater sense of ownership of both the asset and their decisions. A purchase can create a commitment & consistency bias.
In any case I think messaging is incredibly important to address this question. I think the focus should probably move away from Bitshares as a global currency even though that is an appropriate label. The 'Decentralized Exchange' tagline and rebranding is great because it emphasizes a different aspect of Bitshares and complements Bitcoin. Promoting Bitshares as a company also makes sense and will make it easier for people to accept. You can just tell people they are buying shares in a company like Apple Inc. in 1980... better yet it's one of the very first Distributed Autonomous Companies ever! You can further explain that Bitshares has an explicit revenue model as a service that charges transaction fees that are eventually paid as dividends to the company that will drive the value of the company. --BTW since transaction fees may eventually outpace the pay for delegates or any needs for the system, doesn't it mean that way far out in the future if everyone is using Bitshares that the transaction costs will eventually just go back to the users/shareholders and it really is more like a mutual benefit organization then a typical for-profit organization? Pretty fascinating to think about.... maybe we should call it a mutual benefit organization than a company then? Wouldn't the 'mutual benefit organization' idea dispel the psychological hurdle I am describing? Am I missing something? Curious to know your thoughts. Thanks.
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For entrepreneurs, money talks. For users, convenience talks. For investors, returns talk. Everything else is water under the bridge.
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misconceptions/obstacles for adoption of BTS?
This exact conversation took place between myself and a waitress last weekend ...
Me : "Buy some bitcoin."
Her : "I heard that's illegal." <now pointing her finger at me> "Yeah, that's illegal."
::)
Good news is, by the time I let her go this happened ...
Me : "So are you going to?"
Her : <pause> "Yes. Yes I will".
Me : "You will what?"
Her : "I will buy some bitcoin!"
Mission accomplished.
But yeah, I was standing in amazement when I heard "it's illegal".
I couldn't believe people thought that about bitcoin. It's amazing what a great job the msm does scaring the public away from bitcoin / blockchain technology.
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For entrepreneurs, money talks. For users, convenience talks. For investors, returns talk. Everything else is water under the bridge.
I like your perspective. So for each group, what would be the most compelling strength or misconceptions/obstacles for adoption?
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For entrepreneurs, money talks. For users, convenience talks. For investors, returns talk. Everything else is water under the bridge.
I like your perspective. So for each group, what would be the most compelling strength or misconceptions/obstacles for adoption?
I like this perspective too. There are many ways to tailor the message depending on the demographic you are pitching. Try not to cross the streams too much, it can confuse the message.
IMO one of the biggest obstacles to overcome is reducing the cognitive dissonances of voting i.e. making it easier, more intuitive, less time consuming, etc. I like the ideas luckybit mentioned before about making AI algorithms in the future that could vote similar to how you would vote, automating it. Allow manual overrides of course. Then you could just glance every so often to see if your AI voter is sticking to your voting ideologies.
On that note, everyone vote for dev-pc.bitcube! Bitshares can use all of the active developer delegates it can get.
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I agree logically and economically the way BTS was created and has grown makes perfect sense as a startup business, but it is a very difficult psychological hurdle to overcome, especially with something that is perceived as sacred as money. I also don't like the feeling of being a late adopter and it's the same problem Bitcoin had when prices started rising quickly.... It's the economics of envy as Bytemaster mentioned. I'm an anarchocapitalist and it took me a while to overcome the psychological hurdle so I can't imagine what the average person would have to go through to understand. Sometimes I wonder if a 100% freely distributed coin with built in referral incentives and inflation going to development might not be more appealing for mass marketing and network effect. On the other hand when people buy something, people value it more, perceive it to have greater value, have a greater sense of ownership of both the asset and their decisions. A purchase can create a commitment & consistency bias.
Well, we basically have IPO price for a while now. Anyone can be an early adopter now. If anything this Bitcoin bear market is good for, it's the distribution of BTS. I don't think anyone will ever have a right to tell that BTS distribution was unfair.
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Its a bit of a chicken-egg scenario.
We need merchants to accept it to make it useful.
Merchants will only start accepting when it has a critical mass.
I clearly see the benefits of bitAssets. But if I get myself some bitUSD, what am I going to do with it?
The technology needs to be paired with some kind of utility.
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Its a bit of a chicken-egg scenario.
We need merchants to accept it to make it useful.
Merchants will only start accepting when it has a critical mass.
I clearly see the benefits of bitAssets. But if I get myself some bitUSD, what am I going to do with it?
The technology needs to be paired with some kind of utility.
+5%
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Its a bit of a chicken-egg scenario.
We need merchants to accept it to make it useful.
Merchants will only start accepting when it has a critical mass.
I clearly see the benefits of bitAssets. But if I get myself some bitUSD, what am I going to do with it?
The technology needs to be paired with some kind of utility.
I don't buy into the whole mass market merchant angle as a viable strategy in the near future. As a merchant, I can sign up for Bitpay and have the amount immediately converted to Fiat and dumped into my bank account. The immediate use cases I see for BitUSD is more niche:
* Eliminating dark market volatility
* High risk merchants such as the adult industry where credit card fees are ridiculous
* A way for Bitcoiners a chance to move a portion of their holdings to a savings account that pays interest (hedgewallet)
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Its a bit of a chicken-egg scenario.
We need merchants to accept it to make it useful.
Merchants will only start accepting when it has a critical mass.
I clearly see the benefits of bitAssets. But if I get myself some bitUSD, what am I going to do with it?
The technology needs to be paired with some kind of utility.
I don't buy into the whole mass market merchant angle as a viable strategy in the near future. As a merchant, I can sign up for Bitpay and have the amount immediately converted to Fiat and dumped into my bank account. The immediate use cases I see for BitUSD is more niche:
* Eliminating dark market volatility
* High risk merchants such as the adult industry where credit card fees are ridiculous
* A way for Bitcoiners a chance to move a portion of their holdings to a savings account that pays interest (hedgewallet)
I agree with the niche markets, but I wouldn't discount the mainstream market. We'll wait and see. ;)
I agree logically and economically the way BTS was created and has grown makes perfect sense as a startup business, but it is a very difficult psychological hurdle to overcome, especially with something that is perceived as sacred as money. I also don't like the feeling of being a late adopter and it's the same problem Bitcoin had when prices started rising quickly.... It's the economics of envy as Bytemaster mentioned. I'm an anarchocapitalist and it took me a while to overcome the psychological hurdle so I can't imagine what the average person would have to go through to understand. Sometimes I wonder if a 100% freely distributed coin with built in referral incentives and inflation going to development might not be more appealing for mass marketing and network effect. On the other hand when people buy something, people value it more, perceive it to have greater value, have a greater sense of ownership of both the asset and their decisions. A purchase can create a commitment & consistency bias.
Well, we basically have IPO price for a while now. Anyone can be an early adopter now. If anything this Bitcoin bear market is good for, it's the distribution of BTS. I don't think anyone will ever have a right to tell that BTS distribution was unfair.
It's not what is right or logical, it's more about psychology and perception. If the price goes higher the same perception will reappear...it's similar with Bitcoin. I think sticking to the 'company' idea rather than 'coins/currency' avoids a lot of misconceptions and it's good that Bitshares is branded that way.
For entrepreneurs, money talks. For users, convenience talks. For investors, returns talk. Everything else is water under the bridge.
I like your perspective. So for each group, what would be the most compelling strength or misconceptions/obstacles for adoption?
I like this perspective too. There are many ways to tailor the message depending on the demographic you are pitching. Try not to cross the streams too much, it can confuse the message.
IMO one of the biggest obstacles to overcome is reducing the cognitive dissonances of voting i.e. making it easier, more intuitive, less time consuming, etc. I like the ideas luckybit mentioned before about making AI algorithms in the future that could vote similar to how you would vote, automating it. Allow manual overrides of course. Then you could just glance every so often to see if your AI voter is sticking to your voting ideologies.
On that note, everyone vote for dev-pc.bitcube! Bitshares can use all of the active developer delegates it can get.
Yes. We have to know our audience. Yeah voting in general I don't focus on because it adds extra confusion. Heck I don't even know how it works. :) I try to limit explaining anymore than necessary to get people started. You can always explain things over time. BTW what is the % voter participation?
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Its a bit of a chicken-egg scenario.
We need merchants to accept it to make it useful.
Merchants will only start accepting when it has a critical mass.
I clearly see the benefits of bitAssets. But if I get myself some bitUSD, what am I going to do with it?
The technology needs to be paired with some kind of utility.
I don't buy into the whole mass market merchant angle as a viable strategy in the near future. As a merchant, I can sign up for Bitpay and have the amount immediately converted to Fiat and dumped into my bank account. The immediate use cases I see for BitUSD is more niche:
* Eliminating dark market volatility
* High risk merchants such as the adult industry where credit card fees are ridiculous
* A way for Bitcoiners a chance to move a portion of their holdings to a savings account that pays interest (hedgewallet)
+5%
-
Its a bit of a chicken-egg scenario.
We need merchants to accept it to make it useful.
Merchants will only start accepting when it has a critical mass.
I clearly see the benefits of bitAssets. But if I get myself some bitUSD, what am I going to do with it?
The technology needs to be paired with some kind of utility.
I don't buy into the whole mass market merchant angle as a viable strategy in the near future. As a merchant, I can sign up for Bitpay and have the amount immediately converted to Fiat and dumped into my bank account. The immediate use cases I see for BitUSD is more niche:
* Eliminating dark market volatility
* High risk merchants such as the adult industry where credit card fees are ridiculous
* A way for Bitcoiners a chance to move a portion of their holdings to a savings account that pays interest (hedgewallet)
+5%
I completely agree with the niche market opportunities you have pointed out here.
Dont you think that consumers would benefit from using a more stable cryptocurrency than Bitcoin (to put it in an odd way, what do you think would gain more traction in the market for merchants and consumers, BTS or bitUSD).
For merchants the charges and spreads (not sure how their model works) when using bitPay could be avoided.
-
Its a bit of a chicken-egg scenario.
We need merchants to accept it to make it useful.
Merchants will only start accepting when it has a critical mass.
I clearly see the benefits of bitAssets. But if I get myself some bitUSD, what am I going to do with it?
The technology needs to be paired with some kind of utility.
I don't buy into the whole mass market merchant angle as a viable strategy in the near future. As a merchant, I can sign up for Bitpay and have the amount immediately converted to Fiat and dumped into my bank account. The immediate use cases I see for BitUSD is more niche:
* Eliminating dark market volatility
* High risk merchants such as the adult industry where credit card fees are ridiculous
* A way for Bitcoiners a chance to move a portion of their holdings to a savings account that pays interest (hedgewallet)
+5%
I completely agree with the niche market opportunities you have pointed out here.
Dont you think that consumers would benefit from using a more stable cryptocurrency than Bitcoin (to put it in an odd way, what do you think would gain more traction in the market for merchants and consumers, BTS or bitUSD).
For merchants the charges and spreads (not sure how their model works) when using bitPay could be avoided.
Customer education is extremely expensive. It's easy for people like us to see the benefits of BitUSD over Bitcoin for daily transactions, it's a very different story when we start venturing out of the crypto believers. The use cases I outlined above targets markets that are ready to hear our message. If we attach to something like Gocoin, mass distribution becomes a very different story. Now they have an easy on/off ramp with fiat backed by a company able to provide direct customer service when something breaks.
I would love to proven wrong on adoption.
-
Its a bit of a chicken-egg scenario.
We need merchants to accept it to make it useful.
Merchants will only start accepting when it has a critical mass.
I clearly see the benefits of bitAssets. But if I get myself some bitUSD, what am I going to do with it?
The technology needs to be paired with some kind of utility.
I don't buy into the whole mass market merchant angle as a viable strategy in the near future. As a merchant, I can sign up for Bitpay and have the amount immediately converted to Fiat and dumped into my bank account. The immediate use cases I see for BitUSD is more niche:
* Eliminating dark market volatility
* High risk merchants such as the adult industry where credit card fees are ridiculous
* A way for Bitcoiners a chance to move a portion of their holdings to a savings account that pays interest (hedgewallet)
+5%
I completely agree with the niche market opportunities you have pointed out here.
Dont you think that consumers would benefit from using a more stable cryptocurrency than Bitcoin (to put it in an odd way, what do you think would gain more traction in the market for merchants and consumers, BTS or bitUSD).
For merchants the charges and spreads (not sure how their model works) when using bitPay could be avoided.
Customer education is extremely expensive. It's easy for people like us to see the benefits of BitUSD over Bitcoin for daily transactions, it's a very different story when we start venturing out of the crypto believers. The use cases I outlined above targets markets that are ready to hear our message. If we attach to something like Gocoin, mass distribution becomes a very different story. Now they have an easy on/off ramp with fiat backed by a company able to provide direct customer service when something breaks.
I would love to proven wrong on adoption.
+5%
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One big hurdle in adoption is that BTS is 'pre-mined' and the early stakeholders control it.
BTS is distributed to those who own PTS(which was a POW coin), and those who own AGS which earned by donating PTS or BTC to I3 development team. PTS, BTC both have a cost wether you mine it yourself or purchase from a crypto exchange.
If you are right to call it premined, but at least you should know this distrustion history.
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One big hurdle in adoption is that BTS is 'pre-mined' and the early stakeholders control it.
BTS is distributed to those who own PTS(which was a POW coin), and those who own AGS which earned by donating PTS or BTC to I3 development team. PTS, BTC both have a cost wether you mine it yourself or purchase from a crypto exchange.
If you are right to call it premined, but at least you should know this distrustion history.
I3 has returned ALL the PTS to BTS donors and so our message can emphasize that if this point was brought up.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11289.0
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One big hurdle in adoption is that BTS is 'pre-mined' and the early stakeholders control it.
BTS is distributed to those who own PTS(which was a POW coin), and those who own AGS which earned by donating PTS or BTC to I3 development team. PTS, BTC both have a cost wether you mine it yourself or purchase from a crypto exchange.
If you are right to call it premined, but at least you should know this distrustion history.
I3 has returned ALL the PTS to BTS donors and so our message can emphasize that if this point was brought up.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11289.0
It's better to avoid discussing the history all together and avoid calling it a currency/coin. It's interesting and I enjoyed learning about the history, but it's easier to skip it focus on the idea Bitshares is a company, a DAC, and/or a DEC (decentralized exchange company)...and people can own a share in the company as it grows. Think Apple.. you have some core founders, developers and investors, but the great thing is that people can buy in during the early stages. Too confusing to explain the history and raises more questions than necessary.