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Messages - hughmanwho

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46
General Discussion / Re: How is BitUSD going to work?
« on: August 25, 2014, 08:51:34 pm »
So here's the idea, similar to how BitUSD works, why not create another asset that constantly increases in value relative to itself.

Let's call it BitDouble.  For example, marketpeg it so that today it's value is 1 BTSX which is , then have the market agree that every year it's value goes up by 100%.  So next year, it's worth 2 BTSX, following year it's worth 4 BTSX, 8 BTSX, 16 BTSX, etc.

At any point in time, anyone can buy into BitDouble and be guaranteed to double their money one year from now.

Or for that matter.. BitTriple or BitQuadraple would be pretty awesome investments.

If market pegging to USD works.. I don't see any reason this one wouldn't, right?  Same idea, have the market arbitrarily decide on a floating value at a certain point in time.

Just discovered how to make sure everyone in the world gets rich!

47
General Discussion / Re: How is BitUSD going to work?
« on: August 24, 2014, 03:06:06 am »
Quote from: merockstar on August 24, 2014, 02:35:15 am
The person shorting bitUSD into the system creates it when they short, but that person doesn't get the bitUSD, the system matches it up with somebody else who wants to buy it, and the person shorting gets the btsx from selling it (which they can use to later buy bitUSD for less btsx to cover their short, and get their collateral back).

That makes a little bit more sense.  Well, I guess we'll see what happens.

48
General Discussion / Re: How is BitUSD going to work?
« on: August 23, 2014, 10:38:45 pm »
Quote from: TheOnion on August 23, 2014, 10:31:20 pm
Quote from: hughmanwho on August 23, 2014, 10:29:39 pm
Quote from: toast on August 23, 2014, 10:26:55 pm
You can't short BTSX to buy BitUSD, only the other way around. Buyers of BitUSD are only people that think it will work and would prefer exposure to BitUSD over exposure to BTSX, whether it is because they are short BTSX (but not actually shorting on collateral since you can't do that) or because they want stability.

So maybe I'm misunderstanding, how do you get BitUSD in the first place.. you have to purchase it using BTSX or short BitUSD in terms of BTSX, right?

You just buy the for whatever - USD, BTC or at the BTSX exchange for BTSX.(they start at that exchange initially if that is the question)

Wait.. I thought the whole way that BitUSD is introduced into the system is by shorting BTSX for USD?

Back to the original reason I posted this, how does the initial distribution of BitUSD work?

49
General Discussion / Re: How is BitUSD going to work?
« on: August 23, 2014, 10:29:39 pm »
Quote from: toast on August 23, 2014, 10:26:55 pm
You can't short BTSX to buy BitUSD, only the other way around. Buyers of BitUSD are only people that think it will work and would prefer exposure to BitUSD over exposure to BTSX, whether it is because they are short BTSX (but not actually shorting on collateral since you can't do that) or because they want stability.

So maybe I'm misunderstanding, how do you get BitUSD in the first place.. you have to purchase it using BTSX or short BitUSD in terms of BTSX, right?

50
General Discussion / Re: How is BitUSD going to work?
« on: August 23, 2014, 10:24:14 pm »
Quote from: toast on August 23, 2014, 09:30:29 pm
Quote from: hughmanwho on August 23, 2014, 09:03:23 pm
As a prediction market.. maybe it's worth something if enough people all decide to agree it's worth 1 USD.. I'm skeptical though.

That's the point though. The only people who matter for deciding its price are the shorts who are already in the system, wants BTSX to go up, and agree with each to value it at 1 USD. Everyone else is just along for the ride.

Well... it you are shorting BTSX to buy BitUSD.. then you would only do that if you believe that BTSX will go down relative to USD...  which I didn't even think of before but that might cause a volume problem.  Because if you don't believe in BTSX.. you aren't going to buy BTSX in the first place, meaning you won't then proceed to buy BitUSD.

51
General Discussion / Re: How is BitUSD going to work?
« on: August 23, 2014, 09:03:23 pm »
Quote from: TheOnion on August 23, 2014, 08:19:06 pm
Hi hughmanwho

You of all people should know what are the risk when a central entity is holding the money, right?

Do not worry too much - this is just a theory. You do not have to 'believe' in it. After all people still refuse to believe in certain theories and instead believe that god created man out of mud.


BTW, there are better solutions before defaulting to 'trusting somebody with the money'. Just so you know.

I do realize that.  I don't see a way around that though, short of the government deciding to create their own competing crypto and any bank branch can take fiat and redeem it for crypto and vice versa.  Of course there is still an issue of whether that can be done trustlessly.. I guess not.

Like I said, we'll see if it works.. I hope it does, I just don't see it happening though.

In my robbery of fiat example, are you suggesting that everyone could be convinced that even though this asset is no longer backed by USD, everyone would just agree to pretend it is anyway?  I see that as the same thing.

Quote from: toast on August 23, 2014, 08:44:23 pm
@hughmanwho I don't see how you say a cryptocurrency can have value in and of itself but then also say that it can't be used as backing collateral for a prediction market because it is like making value out of nothing

It's different, BTC, Nxt, BTS to some extend, are currencies themselves.  Let me put it this way, theoretically BitUSD will have some value if enough people decide to pay the same amount for it as they will for USD.. odds are that most people won't be willing to do that.  Afterall, you can't buy anything with BitUSD, you can with USD.  Therefore USD clearly has more value for years to come.  As a prediction market.. maybe it's worth something if enough people all decide to agree it's worth 1 USD.. I'm skeptical though.

And just to be clear, to some extent, I'm playing devil's advocate here.  Once the current bubble pops, I may buy some BTS myself, but in my mind, clearly there are issues with BitUSD.

52
General Discussion / Re: How is BitUSD going to work?
« on: August 23, 2014, 08:02:22 pm »
Quote from: Riverhead on August 22, 2014, 06:00:35 pm
Let's take Google. The share price of Google is supposed to be their book value plus some fudging for revenue, growth potential, etc. It's why share-price/book is a key stat that tries to guess how much intangible value pushing the price above or below book is correct.

Yes but owning a piece of Google stock means that you have voting rights in the company, it means that if Google were to ever be sold(not going to happen any time soon..), you'd earn a percentage of the sale.  You actually own a piece of google.  Otherwise, the stock would be valueless.

The way I, and I think most rationale investors will see BitUSD is like this, a few companies are planning on issuing NxtUSD assets on the Nxt AE any day now.  They will hold on to USD to back every asset.  This means 1 NxtUSD = $1 because at any time you can give back the NxtUSD and they'll give you USD in the process.  Now imagine that they got robbed or someone emptied the bank account and ran away.  Now the USD backing NxtUSD is missing.. surely you can't still say that NxtUSD is worth $1 is you can't redeem it for a dollar, right?  This is exactly what BitUSD is going to be, except you're starting off with a pre-robbed bank.

You guys are using fancy words and trying to justify it but what it really all comes down is that you are trying to convince people that nothing has value.  This isn't like a crypto that is a currency in and of itself and USD isn't great but at least there is a limited supply.

I do like that the currency is created via shorting but still the way I see it going is this: I just don't see it having $1 in value as no one will be willing to pay more than $1 for it, and those who short it will be doing it because they believe it'll go up to one dollar and are in it for the money.. so maybe it'll have a value of $0.95.. and stay around that value.. until people realize the value is actually $0.95.. so people will only be willing to short if it goes down to $0.90...  same thing and it goes down to $0.85..  then people realize it doesn't work and it collapses.

There is something to the idea, and though I am very skeptical, I hope it works.  All I'm saying is.. be very cautious when it comes to these 'market-pegged' assets, you short too much and you could lose a lot of money in the process.

53
General Discussion / Re: BitShares blockchain explorer?
« on: August 23, 2014, 12:24:35 am »
I want lists of account balances.

54
General Discussion / BitShares blockchain explorer?
« on: August 22, 2014, 11:55:40 pm »
Where can I find a blockchain explorer that contains a list of all accounts and balances?

Doesn't seem to be available..?

55
General Discussion / Re: How is BitUSD going to work?
« on: August 22, 2014, 05:26:19 pm »
Quote from: xeroc on August 22, 2014, 08:44:06 am
no backing .. just pegging .. you can also called it a consensus that a bitUSD is worth a USD ..

basically the engine (market) honor those that trade towards the consensus .. thats it .. feedback loop keeps the bitUSD where it belongs .. to 1USD ... or close to (that's the experiment)

It's worth experimenting I guess.. I sort of see it similar to the USD going off the gold standard but still claiming it is..  I definitely feel like it's valuable will never be worth 1 USD, because clearly USD is worth more..

idk, I'm not going to touch it for a year or so.. if it stabilizes,

56
General Discussion / Re: How is BitUSD going to work?
« on: August 22, 2014, 07:38:19 am »
I've seen this one: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Market_Peg

I did like BTS's idea for shorting assets though: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=bitshares_-_market_pegging

The basic idea though is that we are just creating an asset out of thin air though and whether it's shorting or buying or selling or whatever.. we're just saying, why don't we all agree that's equal to a dollar?  But it's not actually backed by any dollars..

57
General Discussion / How is BitUSD going to work?
« on: August 22, 2014, 07:11:14 am »
So.. I'm very skeptical about BitUSD, BitGLD, etc.

How is the initial distribution of BitUSD going to occur?  Also, is there a fixed supply?  If so then is supply and demand forced to match price?

Too much demand and price goes higher than USD/BTS price, and people start dumping?

58
General Discussion / Re: The rise in price?
« on: August 22, 2014, 01:00:23 am »
Nxt has had this for months.. don't understand why it's anything special.. start an asset and try to get people to agree it's worth $1 each..  ShortNxt basically does exactly this.

Yesterday I was thinking looks like a bubble about to form and bought.. today, I say sell. It's a bubble.

 I think it's the rumor about Ethereum and when people realize that Ethernet isn't interested in a partnership and that one way partnerships don't work.. they'll dump.

59
General Discussion / Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« on: August 19, 2014, 04:53:40 pm »
Quote from: bytemaster on August 19, 2014, 03:31:41 pm
Quote from: hughmanwho on August 19, 2014, 03:07:31 pm
So I talked to Ethereum.. they basically told me that they are not interested in a partnership..  and that they felt that this announcement of a partnership was shady.

Need proof?  Comes from Ethereum core coder:
http://insightsintoamodernworld.blogspot.de/2014/08/ethereum-collaborations.html

Who announced a formal partnership?   All that this thread was discussing is the potential for a partnership and ways to collaborate (hence the "?" in the title).  Looks like our community is very open minded and looking for the best technology. V. is also very open minded.

The only thing shady is the hostility of those against even the idea of collaboration.

Shady was not my word.. it came from someone on Ethereum Team.. maybe referencing it appearing like BitShares was discussing a deal that was made.. even though none was.

But if you now know there is going to be no deal.. keeping it as the intro of this thread.. seems a little shady. lol

60
General Discussion / Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« on: August 19, 2014, 03:07:31 pm »
So I talked to Ethereum.. they basically told me that they are not interested in a partnership..  and that they felt that this announcement of a partnership was shady.

Need proof?  Comes from Ethereum core coder:
http://insightsintoamodernworld.blogspot.de/2014/08/ethereum-collaborations.html

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