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But there is no reason that PTS should fall except if BTS fall because it is the only way to buy into other I3 DACs if AGS are not tradable...
Quote from: sumantso on January 27, 2014, 09:18:18 pmQuote from: delulo on January 27, 2014, 09:12:06 pmWould it make sense for I3 to merge AGS and PTS after donation period is over? As I said in the other thread, in future, I3 MAY list the AGS in cryptostocks or something similar and make them tradeable; awarding shares to the accounts in that 'exchange'.Delulo - I know you are not too in favour of AGS due to they being unsellable. But look at it this way - do you believe the PTS shares in the future DACs will make it so expensive that you are willing to write off the extra BTSX earned now through AGS? Remember, in future, the DACs will allot upto 80% through other means, so its not as if PTS is the only way to gain them. In fact, it may even turn out that PTS price goes down while BTSX price goes up after BTSX release.The point is that there is no easy answer - its all wildly speculative. Hence, IMO its best to spread out among both.True. Its definitely a balance! And above I actually put forward arguments pro AGS...But there is no reason that PTS should fall except if BTS fall because it is the only way to buy into other I3 DACs if AGS are not tradable...
Quote from: delulo on January 27, 2014, 09:12:06 pmWould it make sense for I3 to merge AGS and PTS after donation period is over? As I said in the other thread, in future, I3 MAY list the AGS in cryptostocks or something similar and make them tradeable; awarding shares to the accounts in that 'exchange'.Delulo - I know you are not too in favour of AGS due to they being unsellable. But look at it this way - do you believe the PTS shares in the future DACs will make it so expensive that you are willing to write off the extra BTSX earned now through AGS? Remember, in future, the DACs will allot upto 80% through other means, so its not as if PTS is the only way to gain them. In fact, it may even turn out that PTS price goes down while BTSX price goes up after BTSX release.The point is that there is no easy answer - its all wildly speculative. Hence, IMO its best to spread out among both.
Would it make sense for I3 to merge AGS and PTS after donation period is over?
Quote from: weiry on January 27, 2014, 09:01:27 pmQuote from: delulo on January 27, 2014, 08:40:46 pmQuote... and tbh I secretly think people in the future (not invictus) would honor PTS but not AGS. Why?Well...People will be able to buy PTS later. Whereas AGS to my understanding can only be acquired during the AGS funding period. Furthermore the AGS funding is controlled by III.If I were developing a DAC I could acquire PTS and only honor PTS in the launch of my DAC, viewing AGS as dilution of my new DAC holdings.Is this actually the case? I don't know. I would imagine that having both AGS & PTS holders would strengthen my DAC's ecosystem by increasing the number of shareholders. Simultaneously I imagine that most AGS holders also hold PTS, so perhaps my equity in the DAC would be diluted without really increasing the number of people who have a stake in the DAC.I agree with your last paragraph. But if you develope a DAC in 1 year PTS will be quite expensive and you can only get a fraction of all PTS for a reasonable price. That would not be very effective to increase your profits. Would be more effective to reserve 1% of all tokens of your DAC for yourself... and give the rest to PTS/AGS holders. If you leave out AGS you risk dispute. Would it make sense for I3 to merge AGS and PTS after donation period is over?
Quote from: delulo on January 27, 2014, 08:40:46 pmQuote... and tbh I secretly think people in the future (not invictus) would honor PTS but not AGS. Why?Well...People will be able to buy PTS later. Whereas AGS to my understanding can only be acquired during the AGS funding period. Furthermore the AGS funding is controlled by III.If I were developing a DAC I could acquire PTS and only honor PTS in the launch of my DAC, viewing AGS as dilution of my new DAC holdings.Is this actually the case? I don't know. I would imagine that having both AGS & PTS holders would strengthen my DAC's ecosystem by increasing the number of shareholders. Simultaneously I imagine that most AGS holders also hold PTS, so perhaps my equity in the DAC would be diluted without really increasing the number of people who have a stake in the DAC.
Quote... and tbh I secretly think people in the future (not invictus) would honor PTS but not AGS. Why?
... and tbh I secretly think people in the future (not invictus) would honor PTS but not AGS.
That aside, I am still unsure whether I should donate BTC or buy more PTS. What do you guys think, is there a ratio of PTS/AGS that you strive for, or do you essentially prefer one over the other?
Also, are AGS useable after the introduction of BTS, in the same way I would still be able to use my ProtoShares or are they 'gone' after this process and merely represent the amount of individual donations for BTS?
Quote from: yellowecho on January 24, 2014, 08:23:40 pmQuote from: sumantso on January 24, 2014, 05:31:53 pmWhats the 5:1?Bitshares to ProtosharesHow?2 million BTSX will be distributed among 1.2-1.3m PTS; making almost 1.3 BTSX/PTS.2 million BTSX will be distributed among 0.6-2m AGS; making anything between 3-1 BTSX/AGS.Personally I am optimistic we will get at least 2+ BTSX/AGS. If not, I will round up the fellow AGS donors, grab some pitchforks and gasoline, and head over to Bytemaster's castle.
Quote from: sumantso on January 24, 2014, 05:31:53 pmWhats the 5:1?Bitshares to Protoshares
Whats the 5:1?
Quote from: yellowecho on January 25, 2014, 05:10:24 pmQuote from: sumantso on January 25, 2014, 04:04:41 pmAs a PTS holder I am seriously peeved at the raw deal I3 gave us.Can you explain? I thought PTS was more valuable now because rather than receiving 10% of the DAC the PTS shares now receive 50%.. is that inaccurate?AGS kind of ended up pegging PTS value. People are now selling PTS for AGS.
Quote from: sumantso on January 25, 2014, 04:04:41 pmAs a PTS holder I am seriously peeved at the raw deal I3 gave us.Can you explain? I thought PTS was more valuable now because rather than receiving 10% of the DAC the PTS shares now receive 50%.. is that inaccurate?
As a PTS holder I am seriously peeved at the raw deal I3 gave us.
But at the current rate most PTS will be frozen in the AGS account in a couple of months.. meaning the opportunity to to bid using PTS will be far greater in the future. So the value of PTS will increase while the price may decrease...Am I wrong on this?
Do you mean 1:1 with respect to your profits from AGS vs. PTS?
Quote from: JakeThePanda on January 23, 2014, 09:20:48 pmQuote from: delulo on January 23, 2014, 07:40:26 pmAgree with regard to invictus and bytemaster! Good distribution is key to success in DACs and this is only possible if the team focuses on the long term and not the quick bug which in the end is way more profitable anyway (exponential growth...). Edit: And with respect to AGS/PTS value something has to be considered that has not been mentioned yet that much. With PTS you are holding a tradable asset that can rise in value in itself which is not the case for AGS. Maybe (what do you think?) bitshares has more potential to grow in price compared to PTS but by buying AGS one is giving up an asset with value in itself. With PTS you have both Bitshares and PTS. With AGS you only have Bitshares after the release... The only way people can get in with future invictus DACS is by PTS which will make it rise lots.... What do you think?I guess you can synthetically make your own AGS, if you had extra money you can temporarily part with. If you get X more AGS per PTS donated, just buy extra PTS to make up for the difference. As soon as Bitshares X is launched, sell the extra PTS you purchased. Now you have the same amount of Bitshares and you still maintain your liquid asset. The cost will be the potential loss on the extra purchased shares. It's also possible it could work out in your favor. A successful launch of Bitshares will probably cause a significant rise in the price of PTS. Is there something I'm missing here?That would just work under the assumption that pts and Bitshares will DEFENITELY rise and that Bitshares will defenitely work. Under this assumption you can spend all your money on PTS/AGS and win. The question is is whether the added 1.5 times bitshares you get are worth giving up PTS...
Quote from: delulo on January 23, 2014, 07:40:26 pmAgree with regard to invictus and bytemaster! Good distribution is key to success in DACs and this is only possible if the team focuses on the long term and not the quick bug which in the end is way more profitable anyway (exponential growth...). Edit: And with respect to AGS/PTS value something has to be considered that has not been mentioned yet that much. With PTS you are holding a tradable asset that can rise in value in itself which is not the case for AGS. Maybe (what do you think?) bitshares has more potential to grow in price compared to PTS but by buying AGS one is giving up an asset with value in itself. With PTS you have both Bitshares and PTS. With AGS you only have Bitshares after the release... The only way people can get in with future invictus DACS is by PTS which will make it rise lots.... What do you think?I guess you can synthetically make your own AGS, if you had extra money you can temporarily part with. If you get X more AGS per PTS donated, just buy extra PTS to make up for the difference. As soon as Bitshares X is launched, sell the extra PTS you purchased. Now you have the same amount of Bitshares and you still maintain your liquid asset. The cost will be the potential loss on the extra purchased shares. It's also possible it could work out in your favor. A successful launch of Bitshares will probably cause a significant rise in the price of PTS. Is there something I'm missing here?
Agree with regard to invictus and bytemaster! Good distribution is key to success in DACs and this is only possible if the team focuses on the long term and not the quick bug which in the end is way more profitable anyway (exponential growth...). Edit: And with respect to AGS/PTS value something has to be considered that has not been mentioned yet that much. With PTS you are holding a tradable asset that can rise in value in itself which is not the case for AGS. Maybe (what do you think?) bitshares has more potential to grow in price compared to PTS but by buying AGS one is giving up an asset with value in itself. With PTS you have both Bitshares and PTS. With AGS you only have Bitshares after the release... The only way people can get in with future invictus DACS is by PTS which will make it rise lots.... What do you think?
Quote from: delulo on January 23, 2014, 09:13:17 pmQuote from: sumantso on January 23, 2014, 08:38:07 pmQuote from: delulo on January 23, 2014, 07:40:26 pmAgree with regard to invictus and bytemaster! Good distribution is key to success in DACs and this is only possible if the team focuses on the long term and not the quick bug which in the end is way more profitable anyway (exponential growth...). Edit: And with respect to AGS/PTS value something has to be considered that has not been mentioned yet that much. With PTS you are holding a tradable asset that can rise in value in itself which is not the case for AGS. Maybe (what do you think?) bitshares has more potential to grow in price compared to PTS but by buying AGS one is giving up an asset with value in itself. With PTS you have both Bitshares and PTS. With AGS you only have Bitshares after the release... The only way people can get in with future invictus DACS is by PTS which will make it rise lots.... What do you think?You will get a portion in all future I3 or I3 supported DACs through AGS. As far as I3 is concerned, AGS and PTS are on the same footing....you are not contradicting what I said aboveI read closely and yes, you are right.So it all boils down to how big BitsharesX is going to become. If you believe that its gonna be huge it makes sense to maximize the earned amount. I am some 2:1 in PTS/AGS and will probably end up as 1:1.
Quote from: sumantso on January 23, 2014, 08:38:07 pmQuote from: delulo on January 23, 2014, 07:40:26 pmAgree with regard to invictus and bytemaster! Good distribution is key to success in DACs and this is only possible if the team focuses on the long term and not the quick bug which in the end is way more profitable anyway (exponential growth...). Edit: And with respect to AGS/PTS value something has to be considered that has not been mentioned yet that much. With PTS you are holding a tradable asset that can rise in value in itself which is not the case for AGS. Maybe (what do you think?) bitshares has more potential to grow in price compared to PTS but by buying AGS one is giving up an asset with value in itself. With PTS you have both Bitshares and PTS. With AGS you only have Bitshares after the release... The only way people can get in with future invictus DACS is by PTS which will make it rise lots.... What do you think?You will get a portion in all future I3 or I3 supported DACs through AGS. As far as I3 is concerned, AGS and PTS are on the same footing....you are not contradicting what I said above
Quote from: delulo on January 23, 2014, 07:40:26 pmAgree with regard to invictus and bytemaster! Good distribution is key to success in DACs and this is only possible if the team focuses on the long term and not the quick bug which in the end is way more profitable anyway (exponential growth...). Edit: And with respect to AGS/PTS value something has to be considered that has not been mentioned yet that much. With PTS you are holding a tradable asset that can rise in value in itself which is not the case for AGS. Maybe (what do you think?) bitshares has more potential to grow in price compared to PTS but by buying AGS one is giving up an asset with value in itself. With PTS you have both Bitshares and PTS. With AGS you only have Bitshares after the release... The only way people can get in with future invictus DACS is by PTS which will make it rise lots.... What do you think?You will get a portion in all future I3 or I3 supported DACs through AGS. As far as I3 is concerned, AGS and PTS are on the same footing.
Here is how you prove we have excellent team... we have raised more money from crowd funding than all of our competition combined
Will AGS eventually be traded on one of the exchanges?
我相信参与ags的没有傻子,出现这个结果一定是有原因的。有没有这个可能呢?有人想借助ags捐赠数据打压pts价格,趁机低价吸货。如果真是这样,我的策略是握紧手中的pts,直接拿手上的btc投ags。等pts相对btc价格上来后,再拿pts投。没有btc的同志们就惨了大家都是这样想的,我觉得现在是投btc.pts 都吃亏,因为btc 是硬货币,pts 一直在跌,bts可能跳票,ags 又不能交易,风险真的很大,持pts 稳妥。
Quote from: delulo on January 19, 2014, 01:18:44 pmThanks! Did you mean that Quoteis a much more profitable way into BitsharesX. However, for future DAC with respect to future non invictus DACS ? And why?I meant I3 DACs or I3 affiliated (who use I3 copyrighted code). But as I said in the next post if you see the number of DACs gained per unit BTC, AGS still remains more profitable.Non I3 DACs apparently should honour only PTS, but I see no compelling argument for them to do so.
Thanks! Did you mean that Quoteis a much more profitable way into BitsharesX. However, for future DAC with respect to future non invictus DACS ? And why?
is a much more profitable way into BitsharesX. However, for future DAC
where is the place where you can see how many ags you get for 1pts/btc again? And right now how many
Quote from: sumantso on January 19, 2014, 11:37:36 amBoth AGS and PTS will give you BitsharesX (at 50/50) and all future I3 or I3 copyrighted DACs (at least 10/10). Bytemaster has said the next DACs after BitsharesX may also award 50/50.If BitsharesX is released within May, 1 AGS will give you more BitsharesX than 1 PTS. Its likely it will be released much earlier, in which case AGS is a much more profitable way into BitsharesX. However, for future DACs, PTS is likely to be more profitable. Then, theres also the fact that PTS is liquid.Bytemaster thinks that some alpha version will be available in early February. Once that happens, I guess the AGS donations will shoot up (it has been dropping over the past few days).why should PTS be more profitable for future dacs? PTS will shoot up equally in feb then though where is the place where you can see how many ags you get for 1pts/btc again? And right now how many
Both AGS and PTS will give you BitsharesX (at 50/50) and all future I3 or I3 copyrighted DACs (at least 10/10). Bytemaster has said the next DACs after BitsharesX may also award 50/50.If BitsharesX is released within May, 1 AGS will give you more BitsharesX than 1 PTS. Its likely it will be released much earlier, in which case AGS is a much more profitable way into BitsharesX. However, for future DACs, PTS is likely to be more profitable. Then, theres also the fact that PTS is liquid.Bytemaster thinks that some alpha version will be available in early February. Once that happens, I guess the AGS donations will shoot up (it has been dropping over the past few days).