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Still waiting FreeTradeQuote from: AdamBLevine on January 07, 2014, 05:01:58 pm If the only price is a project you believe in, are you willing to put all your how about just 75% MMC into development bounties paid to other developers in exchange for a guarantee you'll be able to guide the coin as you see fit? Somehow I think the speculative upside has your attention too.It would be great if you addressed the parts that actually matter instead of just responding to semantics. Quote from: AdamBLevine on January 07, 2014, 01:39:34 pm Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin. What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms. What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year? and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings? He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin. That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control. To be clear, you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?
If the only price is a project you believe in, are you willing to put all your how about just 75% MMC into development bounties paid to other developers in exchange for a guarantee you'll be able to guide the coin as you see fit? Somehow I think the speculative upside has your attention too.It would be great if you addressed the parts that actually matter instead of just responding to semantics. Quote from: AdamBLevine on January 07, 2014, 01:39:34 pm Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin. What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms. What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year? and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings? He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin. That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control. To be clear, you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?
Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin. What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms. What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year? and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings? He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin. That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control. To be clear, you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?
Quote from: bytemaster on January 07, 2014, 05:46:51 pmI for one am shocked and saddened that FreeTrade has abandoned an opportunity to support PTS as a paid position or even take a paid hour of his time to build a new release after others provided the patches. He left us holding the bag and searching for new developers to support PTS. Our agreement was that I would help you launch ProtoShares and see it through for a month and that you would pay a bounty. I thought we both fulfilled our end of the agreement. I can understand you might be disappointed you didn't secure my services after that, but I made you aware from the outset that I am very single minded and handle one project at a time, and that I would likely want to return to MemoryCoin.Regarding the patches - they seem to mostly be code that it is MemoryCoin and that I've pointed you towards, and I've offered and undertaken builds for you. I don't think it is fair for you to talk of abandonment or 'left us holding the bag'.
I for one am shocked and saddened that FreeTrade has abandoned an opportunity to support PTS as a paid position or even take a paid hour of his time to build a new release after others provided the patches. He left us holding the bag and searching for new developers to support PTS.
When I'm removed as CEO, as will happen sooner or later, I'll have to decide carefully whether its worth my while volunteering efforts in an emeritus role. It'll depend on the new CEO and team and whether they're leading in the right direction. That's the price - a project that I believe in.
I didn't 'crash' MemoryCoin 1. Don't believe everything you read on a forum. The shareholders of MemoryCoin 1 sacked me and the coin withered because it didn't have a dev. I explained the situation to the Bter exchange and recommended they suspend trading for a short time while the news was absorbed. They didn't want to continue with a coin with no dev support and halted trading altogether.Some coins have a model where a benevolent dev works for free indefinitely on a coin. I don't think that's a sustainable model capable of major growth, and it's not the model here - if that's what you want, there are plenty of coins like that. The MemoryCoin model is development and promotion are paid for through slightly higher inflation, and the shareholders get to vote on who gets paid.
Quote from: AdamBLevine on January 07, 2014, 01:39:34 pmBottom line is you have LOTS of MMC, and it should be enough that you should *WANT* to develop this coin you've now initiated twice. This should be true even if you get voted out of the position to have 1% of the total money supply emptied in your pocket every block because you have taken so much pay in advance for work you have not done.Given this conversation so far I don't expect a real answer but maybe you'll surprise me - Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin. What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms. What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year? and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings? He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin. That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control. To be clear, you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?Adam, you are so right about so many things, and I hope more and more people will start to understand what FreeTrade is really doing here.Why don't you run for CEO? You would get my votes and many more for sure. We already have a good new CMO on the way (I hope) so a decent guy in the CEO seat as well would be a big improvement.
Bottom line is you have LOTS of MMC, and it should be enough that you should *WANT* to develop this coin you've now initiated twice. This should be true even if you get voted out of the position to have 1% of the total money supply emptied in your pocket every block because you have taken so much pay in advance for work you have not done.Given this conversation so far I don't expect a real answer but maybe you'll surprise me - Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin. What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms. What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year? and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings? He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin. That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control. To be clear, you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?
Quote from: AdamBLevine on January 07, 2014, 04:55:07 amYou're totally right - How many MMC were assigned to addresses you directly or indirectly control, in the genesis block? I believe you are the only one who can answer this and it seems like a vitally important transparency issue given this directly impacts voting and you've already shown that you've got no problem voting with a block of 40k because heck, didn't think it would be a conflict of interest to vote for yourself when you gave yourself coins for free!That's been pointed out to above, acknowledged as a mistake and corrected. Its disappointing that you just repeat it without acknowledging the steps taken to correct it. As for specific balances, I'm not getting into that, because it would never end, and I'm entitled to the same privacy as any other shareholders. I suggest you track down satoshi and ask him the same question.Quote from: FreeTrade on January 07, 2014, 04:34:23 amSo there is no amount of money that would keep you developing a day longer than you feel obligated to by the stream of freshly issued MMC flowing into your account (1% of the money supply) if you disagree with something the person who replaces you does.I'd expect to disagree with lots of things, but overall direction is the important thing.Quote from: FreeTrade on January 07, 2014, 04:34:23 amThat's a pretty sweet deal, you work on it until someone kicks you out of the job then walk away with the sucker who replaced you doing all the work and you just disappear into the sunset with all the MMC you could grab from the premine and salary firehose. Will he be a sucker? I thought you said he would be heavily over-compensated. Make up your mind. I hope that everyone who gets involved with the coin does well out of it as we achieve the aims set forth in the manifesto.
You're totally right - How many MMC were assigned to addresses you directly or indirectly control, in the genesis block? I believe you are the only one who can answer this and it seems like a vitally important transparency issue given this directly impacts voting and you've already shown that you've got no problem voting with a block of 40k because heck, didn't think it would be a conflict of interest to vote for yourself when you gave yourself coins for free!
So there is no amount of money that would keep you developing a day longer than you feel obligated to by the stream of freshly issued MMC flowing into your account (1% of the money supply) if you disagree with something the person who replaces you does.
That's a pretty sweet deal, you work on it until someone kicks you out of the job then walk away with the sucker who replaced you doing all the work and you just disappear into the sunset with all the MMC you could grab from the premine and salary firehose.
Will let you know my address and post a candidacy thread, telling the world who I am and why I'm good for the job, once I have it.Thank you
Quote from: itsik78 on January 07, 2014, 08:05:51 amI see that the CMO has been fired and I see this as a great step as he really didn't do anything other than a 30 links HTML site (and got paid around 5000 MMCs for that which is quite enough for 30 minutes work).Any good candidates out there or should I offer myself for the job (with the 5 man team idea)?I plan on marketing the coin in forums, offering it to exchanges and maintaining a new site, in case the old one is removed.Most importantly, I plan to use most of the salary money for bounties for (reputable) bloggers and tech sites to write about the coin.What I do not plan is sitting on the golden egg of this salary and doing the minimal work required for my own profit.Please let me know within the hour before I offer myself.Thank youCandidates are listed here - http://memorycoin.org/candidates/As you see, we haven't had a lot of competition for CMO - I think it's because we're more of a technical community at the moment. I'm certainly happy to list your candidacy, although I'm a little worried you might just be trying to prove your point that it is possible to get elected with big promises and fail to deliver with no sanction other than the sack. I think the community would want to see results pretty quickly to trust you, and it would be helpful if you had any kind of track record to point to.With regard to the previous CMO destroying his website out of spite - I doubt that would happen . . it's an asset for him and previous C*O's have an interest to see the coin succeed, not fail.
I see that the CMO has been fired and I see this as a great step as he really didn't do anything other than a 30 links HTML site (and got paid around 5000 MMCs for that which is quite enough for 30 minutes work).Any good candidates out there or should I offer myself for the job (with the 5 man team idea)?I plan on marketing the coin in forums, offering it to exchanges and maintaining a new site, in case the old one is removed.Most importantly, I plan to use most of the salary money for bounties for (reputable) bloggers and tech sites to write about the coin.What I do not plan is sitting on the golden egg of this salary and doing the minimal work required for my own profit.Please let me know within the hour before I offer myself.Thank you
That is interfering if I ever heard of such a thing. How long did you wait from being ousted to contacting Bter? Did you offer to work on contract on an as needed basis? I don't know these things as I was not apart of memorycoin 1. With out these answers, it seems like you couldn't have her so you made sure no one could.
I didn't 'crash' MemoryCoin 1
I explained the situation to the Bter exchange and recommended they suspend trading for a short time while the news was absorbed. They didn't want to continue with a coin with no dev support and halted trading altogether.
Again, don't believe everything you read in an internet forum. Sure I have coins from MC1 and the ProtoShares distribution, but it's not hundreds of thousands of coins - suggest you check your sources before repeating them.
You gave yourself hundreds of thousands of coins and you can't be bothered to develop without a constant stream of pay?
Given that you created Memorycoin from a modified version of Protoshares, something you were paid by an outside company to create - exactly how much time did it take you to adapt protoshares to Memorycoin 2? Lets assume a month of nothing but working on that conversion full time. How much is your time worth that your pre-mine is not enough to buy even six months of support from you, especially since any successes you have result in that exponential multiplier?I'm sure you've done the math, what is the dollar based salary for a year of support from you to maintain this thing you've now created twice. You don't work for free, so tell us what the price is.
Quote from: FreeTrade on January 07, 2014, 02:23:18 amSome coins have a model where a benevolent dev works for free indefinitely on a coin. I don't think that's a sustainable model capable of major growth, and it's not the model here - if that's what you want, there are plenty of coins like that. The MemoryCoin model is development and promotion are paid for through slightly higher inflation, and the shareholders get to vote on who gets paid.You gave yourself hundreds of thousands of coins and you can't be bothered to develop without a constant stream of pay?Given that you created Memorycoin from a modified version of Protoshares, something you were paid by an outside company to create - exactly how much time did it take you to adapt protoshares to Memorycoin 2? Lets assume a month of nothing but working on that conversion full time. How much is your time worth that your pre-mine is not enough to buy even six months of support from you, especially since any successes you have result in that exponential multiplier?I'm sure you've done the math, what is the dollar based salary for a year of support from you to maintain this thing you've now created twice. You don't work for free, so tell us what the price is.
Some coins have a model where a benevolent dev works for free indefinitely on a coin. I don't think that's a sustainable model capable of major growth, and it's not the model here - if that's what you want, there are plenty of coins like that. The MemoryCoin model is development and promotion are paid for through slightly higher inflation, and the shareholders get to vote on who gets paid.
Quote from: seraphim on January 07, 2014, 01:58:35 amQuote from: phrozenspite on January 07, 2014, 01:55:12 amQuote from: seraphim on January 07, 2014, 01:40:54 amWhile I can't say anything about the amount of coins FreeTrade is holding, and what he is planning to do with them, I still disagree that the payout for the officers is too high. It is just a question what is being done for the money.The high reward is thought as an incentive for people to get involved. While it could be enough (just for example) for a professional ad agency to apply as CMO this unfortunately didn't happen yet. But that's neither the fault of FreeTrade nor the other officers. Compared to other alt coins, MMC already got a lot of infrastructure built around for the short time of its existence. Could be more with better candidates, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the grants.I believe that FreeTrade thought there'd be a lot more competition for the offices. Seems like the reward is not high enough for professionals to get involved. Reducing the grants to 1/10th wouldn't make that situation better...It would be hard for any of them to get voted in when FreeTrade appears to have 40k coins worth of votes from the MMC foundation addresses participating in the vote.Of course I assume that he uses his coins to vote for the best candidate available.Assuming that address is controlled by him, he just helped to spoil the CMO for now.according to mmcvotes i see that he voted from his personal address. I'm just not sure why if he is in control of them that he's using the foundation's coins to vote since it mentions on the foundation's site "To avoid a conflict of interest, MCF does not provide grants or payments to its administrator.". Isn't it a pretty big conflict of interest that he's using one of them to vote for himself?
Quote from: phrozenspite on January 07, 2014, 01:55:12 amQuote from: seraphim on January 07, 2014, 01:40:54 amWhile I can't say anything about the amount of coins FreeTrade is holding, and what he is planning to do with them, I still disagree that the payout for the officers is too high. It is just a question what is being done for the money.The high reward is thought as an incentive for people to get involved. While it could be enough (just for example) for a professional ad agency to apply as CMO this unfortunately didn't happen yet. But that's neither the fault of FreeTrade nor the other officers. Compared to other alt coins, MMC already got a lot of infrastructure built around for the short time of its existence. Could be more with better candidates, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the grants.I believe that FreeTrade thought there'd be a lot more competition for the offices. Seems like the reward is not high enough for professionals to get involved. Reducing the grants to 1/10th wouldn't make that situation better...It would be hard for any of them to get voted in when FreeTrade appears to have 40k coins worth of votes from the MMC foundation addresses participating in the vote.Of course I assume that he uses his coins to vote for the best candidate available.Assuming that address is controlled by him, he just helped to spoil the CMO for now.
Quote from: seraphim on January 07, 2014, 01:40:54 amWhile I can't say anything about the amount of coins FreeTrade is holding, and what he is planning to do with them, I still disagree that the payout for the officers is too high. It is just a question what is being done for the money.The high reward is thought as an incentive for people to get involved. While it could be enough (just for example) for a professional ad agency to apply as CMO this unfortunately didn't happen yet. But that's neither the fault of FreeTrade nor the other officers. Compared to other alt coins, MMC already got a lot of infrastructure built around for the short time of its existence. Could be more with better candidates, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the grants.I believe that FreeTrade thought there'd be a lot more competition for the offices. Seems like the reward is not high enough for professionals to get involved. Reducing the grants to 1/10th wouldn't make that situation better...It would be hard for any of them to get voted in when FreeTrade appears to have 40k coins worth of votes from the MMC foundation addresses participating in the vote.
While I can't say anything about the amount of coins FreeTrade is holding, and what he is planning to do with them, I still disagree that the payout for the officers is too high. It is just a question what is being done for the money.The high reward is thought as an incentive for people to get involved. While it could be enough (just for example) for a professional ad agency to apply as CMO this unfortunately didn't happen yet. But that's neither the fault of FreeTrade nor the other officers. Compared to other alt coins, MMC already got a lot of infrastructure built around for the short time of its existence. Could be more with better candidates, but we wouldn't be where we are now without the grants.I believe that FreeTrade thought there'd be a lot more competition for the offices. Seems like the reward is not high enough for professionals to get involved. Reducing the grants to 1/10th wouldn't make that situation better...
Quote from: phrozenspite on January 06, 2014, 08:04:41 pmQuote from: donschoe on January 06, 2014, 07:51:32 pmQuote from: itsik78 on January 06, 2014, 06:15:00 pmAccording to this page: http://memorycoin.org/foundation/M9rJudKWdiE4dQd2K6DD9bLtkviKwnhNZG is "Clearing" andMHodpHe3qVMzGKtgcrjwRQdvUTEyaXfHPE is "Main".These 2 total 250k MMCsIf these don't belong to a person, why the hell are these 2 voting for candidates? Good point. Who owns that addresses?well whatever the case, they're amounting to about 45k in votesand according to the siteMCF is funded through the MemoryCoin grant award system. Its funds are currently administered by the coin’s founder and chief developer, FreeTrade. To avoid a conflict of interest, MCF does not provide grants or payments to its administrator.So perhaps FreeTrade could answer that for usOk, so since there's no "Official" explanation here, I will allow myself to write my speculation:These wallets, from MMC1, were community wallets to be used for bounties and development.Since, as Freetrade threatened numerous times in the MMC1 thread linked to by Newmine: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=267522.msg3143884#msg3143884 (for the lazy ones, I'll sum it up: It's something like "If someone takes control of the 'grant' I will dim this coin as a failure and will burn it alive"), something didn't work for his liking, he killed the old coin and created a new one where every "old" coin is equal to a "new" coin.BUT THAT'S NOT ALL! Since we had a grant which is now useless, who would better take hold of these coins if not the great Freetrade.So now the situation is that Mr. Freetrade has something between 300,000 - 400,000 coins (and probably more, depending on the amount of Protoshares he has + the amount he got from holding 2 positions for almost a month in MMC2), where 250k of them should have been part of a bounty wallet and definitely not owned by him.That's my assumption.This coin is a money generator for Mr. Freetrade and (a far smaller one, but still huge) the other officers.Can't wait for it to be traded on Cryptsy, where I will sell my 7600 coins for ~7.6 Bitcoins and move on.Good luck to you all.
Quote from: donschoe on January 06, 2014, 07:51:32 pmQuote from: itsik78 on January 06, 2014, 06:15:00 pmAccording to this page: http://memorycoin.org/foundation/M9rJudKWdiE4dQd2K6DD9bLtkviKwnhNZG is "Clearing" andMHodpHe3qVMzGKtgcrjwRQdvUTEyaXfHPE is "Main".These 2 total 250k MMCsIf these don't belong to a person, why the hell are these 2 voting for candidates? Good point. Who owns that addresses?well whatever the case, they're amounting to about 45k in votesand according to the siteMCF is funded through the MemoryCoin grant award system. Its funds are currently administered by the coin’s founder and chief developer, FreeTrade. To avoid a conflict of interest, MCF does not provide grants or payments to its administrator.So perhaps FreeTrade could answer that for us
Quote from: itsik78 on January 06, 2014, 06:15:00 pmAccording to this page: http://memorycoin.org/foundation/M9rJudKWdiE4dQd2K6DD9bLtkviKwnhNZG is "Clearing" andMHodpHe3qVMzGKtgcrjwRQdvUTEyaXfHPE is "Main".These 2 total 250k MMCsIf these don't belong to a person, why the hell are these 2 voting for candidates? Good point. Who owns that addresses?
According to this page: http://memorycoin.org/foundation/M9rJudKWdiE4dQd2K6DD9bLtkviKwnhNZG is "Clearing" andMHodpHe3qVMzGKtgcrjwRQdvUTEyaXfHPE is "Main".These 2 total 250k MMCsIf these don't belong to a person, why the hell are these 2 voting for candidates?
If anything kills MMC it'll be the way MMC is set up.
Quote from: seraphim on January 06, 2014, 05:47:56 pm I just wanted to point out that a lot of people seem to not care about what's getting done, while they complain that the cXo get too many coins.You think too naive It's not about that cXo's deserve the salary they get or the justice. If that was the case, there are unspendable addresses to vote. it's about beeing greedy and thinking in short-term. compromising these positions will break mmc sadly. And I don't really understand why actually mmc holders want to kill mmc in the first place?
I just wanted to point out that a lot of people seem to not care about what's getting done, while they complain that the cXo get too many coins.
The problem is that people in cXo positions have a no-lose situation. Maybe the social contract for Memorycoin should be you use 80% as your operating budget and 20% as your take-home pay, but right now anyone who has achieved that role does so with the support of a few large voters, and even at the just-launched-no-uses price it has now are taking home 100k per year, which just like bitcoin will multiply up if they are successful. But given that they are already recieving 100k per year at current prices, why not collect the 100k then do the minimal amount of work to keep the role (look busy), and by the time somebody figures out you're spending all your time doing something else who cares? Free money for just enough work to keep up appearances.If you want people to look at the situation and say "Yeah, that seems to make sense" you should cut all the numbers by 90% and make the position one only people who are really motivated and believe in the coin to take the job. If they are successful and the price targets of .01btc are hit, that's more than 200 Bitcoins per year. If Memorycoin can reach .1 that's 2000BTC per year.I dislike this current model for the same reason I hated JR Willets putting like 40% of the funding (and getting 40% of the tokens) from the Mastercoin fundraiser. Since at the time he was going to be paid from those raised funds, it meant he was basically being the biggest stakeholder by taking money out of one of his pockets and putting it into another. In order for people to work, they need to have skin in the game and that means a downside comes paired with the upside instead of only upside as I see in this circumstance.Best of luck
The shortly-compromised CNO is one of the examples of hard-working officers, and definitely not the one who should have been or should be kicked first.
Give newmine all the votes he wants until he becomes CEO, CTO, CNO...etcPeople trust a guy that has not contributed anything to memorycoin and think he's going to give everyone a equal share of coins.Go on elect him for all positions then come back when he disappears with a 100,000$ worth of Coins and wine like little bitches.Personally if he's elected these positions dumping all of coins and moving on. Price right now is extremely high compared to what it will be when newmine takes over.Seeing MMC 3.0 over the horizon....
>>sudo deluser Newmine MMC.....-----------For Immediate Release---------------MaxPWR requests that MemoryCoin Officers drop the banhammer on User Newmine and his supporters.Each Officer shall immediately develop a list of all known accounts and supporters of User Newmine. Officer accounts shall not trade with any associated addresses of User Newmine. Officers accounts shall not trade with supporters of User Newmine until votes are removed for any associated addresses of User Newmine.If elected CEO, MaxPWR shall use any accumulated funds to place a bounty for such blacklist services:MVTEceoug2AiLLsoV1Ej5VxqfmZ6bvwDH5In addition, donations for such efforts are being accepted at Max's Evil Lab:MVTEchaRu6ReuT2a9ANFWbgWyjtw3pJ8SThttp://pwrcoin.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html
because banning and blacklisting people for participating is less damaging than redistributing coins? nice try
supporting Newmine for a fair Memorycoinhttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389386.0