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Messages - changematey

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31
General Discussion / Re: Initial price for a XTS
« on: July 13, 2014, 03:12:01 pm »
I am a bit confused. How is even XTS being traded on btc38 or bter? I don't think we have a mechanism in place to transfer stakes to exchanges yet, right?
they are from the pts balances people had on the exchanges during snapshot

bter and btc38 gave the shares to the pts holders that they deserve

not like greedy cryptsy

so the shares are basicly IOU's until btsx launches
well that is a pretty risky move, leaving balances on exchanges.
I guess that is one of the reasons there is no price parity between btc38 and bter. One is running away with the price while other is stable.
Though the thing which is confusing me most is how the buyers are going to transfer their stakes?

32
General Discussion / Re: Initial price for a XTS
« on: July 13, 2014, 02:49:49 pm »
I am a bit confused. How is even XTS being traded on btc38 or bter? I don't think we have a mechanism in place to transfer stakes to exchanges yet, right?

33
General Discussion / Re: List of BitAssets to pre-register
« on: July 08, 2014, 05:58:42 am »
Isn't it very easy to fake market depth?

How? If you put in "fake" bids/asks they can still get matched, and if you cancel them then the "fake" market depth is no longer there and trading stops

If you are talking about a small or new asset, what is to stop me from creating it then populating the exchange with orders that I both buy and sell with various idents?   Those trades would really happen, and my only cost would be the tx fees.  At the point the market bootstraps, I win! my asset is trading at the expense of others.  If I fail what did it cost me besides the tx fees?

How is this at the expense of others? Also you need depth, not volume, so you could only bootstrap an asset if you had enough total % of stake.
In a very basic penny trade operation, what really happens is a group of people hold maximum of the security. So they can create a market depth and trade within themselves raising the price at the expense of others.

Example assume security currently at 0.001 BTS. A total of 6 people hold majority of the security - x,y,z,a,b,c with say 100 bts between them.
So what they do is - x sells to y sells to z sells to a sells to b sells to c sells to x..... with each increasing tick of 0.0001 bts. Same bts can be circulated and reused to do another buy operation.

Now for a causal observer it is increasing prices = profit so many people will start to jump in. So while the cost will not "only" be the fees but once it is picked up by market, I can slowly unload my shares and run away.

34
General Discussion / Re: XT GUI - v0.0.2 - OS X and Windows
« on: June 21, 2014, 06:00:51 pm »
Someone pls send me funds - XTS7U782HozQeZYjH9LfjNjG6TJUegM8S5KcVwg9d4Yoqx3tSugXj 
Btw there is a typo on the registration page it should be "coming soon" rather than "comming".

35
General Discussion / Ethereum's DAPs
« on: June 18, 2014, 09:57:06 am »
I was just poring through their BTT thread when I hit the last page. They are going full steam with their DAPs and even have picked up some of the projects from "In crypto we trust" hackathon.  Comparatively, we have a handful of them from 3I  :( a playlist of their DAPs:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJqWcTqh_zKET0XRWZsj68CcURHIsAxwE

They are even doing a messaging service which looks similar to Keyhotee.

36
General Discussion / Re: Delegates, start your engines!
« on: June 10, 2014, 01:56:15 pm »
I am just wondering why not have a dedicated chatroom for this. That way people can help out each other if there are repeated errors and faster resolution can happen. Not everyone need to be logged on all the time - BM/toast can keep working on their fixes and release them in the chatroom when they are ready.

37
General Discussion / Re: Delegates, start your engines!
« on: June 09, 2014, 03:30:45 pm »
Well looks like none of my private WIF keys are working. The public key list:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4913.msg64544#msg64544

I guess missed the bus for this initial test.

Try this now.
Tried but no go. For some of the delegates now I keep getting:
Code: [Select]
10
false: Error parsing WIF private key
    {}
    th_a  wallet.cpp:843 import_wif_private_key

    {"account_name":""}
    th_a  wallet.cpp:845 import_wif_private_key

    {}
    th_a  common_api_client.cpp:212 wallet_import_private_key

    {"command":"wallet_import_private_key"}
    th_a  cli.cpp:576 execute_command
whereas others seem to be giving the same old "registered" address error.

38
General Discussion / Re: Delegates, start your engines!
« on: June 09, 2014, 12:43:48 pm »
Well looks like none of my private WIF keys are working. The public key list:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4913.msg64544#msg64544

I guess missed the bus for this initial test.

39
General Discussion / Re: Initial delegates, let's get ready!
« on: June 08, 2014, 11:30:44 am »
I am not really a technically inclined guy so have followed the instructions here:
https://github.com/nmushegian/bitshares_toolkit/blob/master/BUILD_UBUNTU.md

when I do cmake, it just tells me parameters. After which when I run make:
Quote
ubuntu@:~/bitshares_toolkit$ make
make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.

cmake . | note the dot
make
Thanks :)

Location: Sydney, Australia
Amazon EC2

changematey1: XTS5o34s2DQsWc42GHUW9baTkSj7kB6Ma6QrbD9GtMPNvhBuddPDE
changematey2: XTS7gfVaWV5v1A7Nzh5fCfjLRWRvjGX4w5tqM5pcxSnbvvaARM4wT
changematey3: XTS8QS83EwD9N9LVDQycNLc9d9e8GkkY7Cy8LtsDVDF9meskrwL2m
changematey4: XTS8YUSi45yoRoRL6UQEqyhE4GoNxW2kKLdzxWnDPs9MhSkT5yTgU
changematey5: XTS7L3qc1JHx4gX7EmPK1AKJXtnEJfbry2saHQJjfFZd76RH5pTpY

40
General Discussion / Re: Initial delegates, let's get ready!
« on: June 08, 2014, 10:40:06 am »
I am not really a technically inclined guy so have followed the instructions here:
https://github.com/nmushegian/bitshares_toolkit/blob/master/BUILD_UBUNTU.md

when I do cmake, it just tells me parameters. After which when I run make:
Quote
ubuntu@:~/bitshares_toolkit$ make
make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.

41
General Discussion / Re: BitShares X Status Update
« on: April 27, 2014, 07:53:35 pm »
I don't understand why can't the people proclaiming to be long term holders get through their thick heads. No one, not even the "short term speculators", benefits from a sub-par product. If it is crap, the PTS held wont be even worth $4 or the BTS wont crawl even $1 mark. So the short or long term, both want the same thing - a working product.

Anyone in the IT side of things will tell you -- most code doesn't work perfectly on the first go. So all this nonsense about perfect code should stop. Just get us a working product, test it, improve and iterate it. If things were so perfect, bitcoins wouldn't require so many iterations.

42
General Discussion / Re: BitShares X Status Update
« on: April 20, 2014, 10:51:23 am »
3i suck!

As much as I want to agree with  you but I really can't. It's true that bts has been delayed over and over which is the source of your 3i disappointment. But let me tell you this , a wise investor has enormous amount of patience and will make his/her at exactly the way he  or she wants to move. Now instead of grudging on 3i, invest on other crypto. Balance your portfolio . Indeed it is the best ever remedy to wait and see situation. wanna tip? take a look at pawncoin. They wlll be releasing their own exchange and witness the skyrocket phenomenon that is happening now.

pawncoin is not a very good investment. slow block time, mining, and no community does not translate to a good investment. diversification is not the best investment strategy. the best investment strategy is knowing what you are investing in. if you are not comfortable waiting for the development of this platform you clearly do not understand what you are investing in. take the time to understand the situation better. take the time to understand the concepts that bitshares brings to the table and you might find that your concerns are not fully warranted.

If you are referring to my comments above, I would clearly stay with bitshare as I believe in its principles. But time is more important than anything else. I was soothing the pain of somebody's agony of waiting . Let someone earn a quick buck or two so that the anguish lessens. Eventhough what you have said about pawncoin is true , look at their project timeline. It is almost in sync. That is why short term investors are having hands on this opportunity. But when the smoke is clear as to say, people might dump it . At least they have earned from their investment in such small period of time.
Thats the issue isnt? If anyone raises a concern about the tardiness of 3I for them its all about the money. It certainly can't be about people's expectation, can it?

Given the onslaught of coins we had, the reason I chose PTS was because I really liked the idea. Make no mistake most start-up funding (which was PTS' purpose, wasn't it?)  happens because people like the idea. Now liking an idea and believing in it are two separate things. Belief comes later when the person asking for funding can actually prove himself. 
- So I was eagerly waiting for Keyhotee release in Dec. I could judge their work and then chose to believe in them -- it dint happen.
- I reset my expectations to BTS-X in March, dint happen.

I was ready to reset it to May-Jun too but then I hear - we don't know when will we be ready..and thats certainly not the kind of belief I am looking at.

43
General Discussion / Re: BitShares X Status Update
« on: April 20, 2014, 10:33:37 am »

I have been lurking through the forums; this statement just made me register on the forum. If I am reading it correctly, your solution to incorrect estimates (not only BTSX but keyhotee too) is not to provide an estimate any more. So basically, what you are saying is "we will never try to make a correct estimate, so yeah lets leave it?" I am just dumbfounded by this way of thinking. :-X


While I also appreciate the amount of work BM has put in compiling the list. The question really is - why weren't they tried before the snapshot or March dates? Is it going to be I3's policy to make a commitment, generate an interest from the public and then say this doesn't work so trust us for some more time? I guess you might think there is a whole new value proposition here so, I3 can get away with its tardiness.

I also work in the IT industry. Whenever I am asked for an estimate, my efforts are always padded with 30% of rework, rethink and general avoidance of being rushed. So if I need 10, I say 13.
In worst case, if I do cross 13 and there is 14/15th day, I am answerable to my end users. I certainly don't take a stance saying "well, as my estimates have proven wrong, so no estimate from here on."

That said, I understand there must be a lot of stress on BM. So if you can't give a day-wise estimate, how about a week/month estimate. Say we are looking at end of June or Q2 end or Q3 , that allays some nerves and certainly better than "we don't know when we will be ready (will it ever be?)"
3i suck!
No they don't suck. They are just tardy, thats all.
Until they release a working product - for which they have failed twice - keyhotee and now this, there is no way to judge their work.

44
General Discussion / Chit funds DAC
« on: April 19, 2014, 04:38:17 pm »
Given the structure of the Insurance DAC which relies more the conventional fraternity structure than the current structure, I think a chit fund DAC also makes a case in BTS ecosystem.

So whats a chit fund? Its a type of fraternity based financial scheme practised in India.
(lifted straight from WIKI with some modification)

The basic necessity of conducting a 'Chitty' is a group of people called subscribers. These subscribers commit to a put in a fixed sum of money in a chitti (pot) for a specific period of time. This period of time, normally equal to the number of subscribers. The reason is each month one subscriber gets to place his needs before the quorum and take the pot money for his work -- emergency, business, anything.

The foreman—the person conducting the chitty—brings these people together and conducts the chitty. The foreman is also responsible for collecting the money from subscribers, presiding over the auctions, and keeping subscriber records. He is compensated by a fixed amount (generally 5% of gross chitty amount) monthly for his efforts. Other than that, the foreman has no specific privileges, he is just a chitty subscriber.

So a simple formula depicts the pattern of the chitty:

Monthly Premium × Duration in Months = Gross Amount
where,
monthly premium is decided before opening the citty
Duration of month = number of suscribers
Gross amount describes the size of chitty for an individual/sum insured

Ex. A monthly commitment of 200 from a group of 50 people, and runs for 50 months.
So monthly pot size is 200*50 = 10000 which is also the maximum sum assured.

On an announced date every subscriber comes together for the auction/lot and bid for the monthly take for their needs. In case there are more than 2 subscribers asking for the money, an auction is held. This is a reverse auction wherein each subscriber must lower the amount he is willing to take. So basically it goes like 10,000 >> 9000>> 8000 so and so forth, until a subscriber is willing to go no further.

In case auction discount, that is the difference between the gross sum and auction amount, is equally distributed among subscribers or is deducted from their monthly premium. For example if the auction is settled on a sum of 9000, then the auction discount of 1000 is divided by 50 (the total number of subscribers) and every one gets a discount of 20. The same practice is repeated every month and every subscriber gets a chance of receiving some money.


This is basically a form of microfinance and has helped people with getting seed money for their business. And a profitable one for the companies running the chit. The caveat here is, it has also proven to be unreliable and there have been scams perpetrated by the companies running these chits.

45
General Discussion / Re: BitShares X Status Update
« on: April 19, 2014, 03:53:09 pm »

That's why we stopped giving estimates.  We don't know what we don't know. When our conventional mining solution for PTS pointed out that mining was centralizing and unprofitable, a new invention was necessary.  Our supporters have watched (and helped) us make that invention in real time - with access to every chin-scratching twist and turn of our thinking.  Is that not being treated like adults?

Here's the list of R&D progress we've made pursuing that invention, as summarized by bytemaster a week or so ago.  None of it could be anticipated until we did the work, thought the thoughts, listened to input from this forum, scratched our chins and engineered the required breakthroughs:

Quote
Yes, I released a white paper on DPOS last week and have implemented a large part of it and will be testing it in the days ahead.   Resolving the security model in a way that one can thoroughly understand and prove is secure was a major challenge.  You can follow discussions on this forum where about a half dozen variations / iterations where vetted and found wanting...  Let me list the evolution:

1) Mining with Momentum... tossed due to centralization and non profitability
2) Transactions as Proof of Stake white paper (Nov 28th, 2013) adjusted mining difficulty by stake.  Suffered from weakness on deciding who should produce the next block.
3) Ripple Consensus + TaPOS was the concept in January at the Miami event through Feb, but after attempted implementation we realized it had several deal breakers:
      a) the unique node list was an invite-only group and a point of trust
      b) the UNL was not compensated in any way
      c) the bandwidth requirements / scalability were an issue
4) Fall back on a simple mining + TaPOS and various variations on equations for option 2.  All of these variations suffered from many potential attacks and would require many confirmations.  It became too complex to analyze.  (Feb through March)
5) Single trustee which could be fired... the process was too manual but otherwise sound.
6) Delegated POS this solution has been reviewed, found to be decentralized, fast, and secure without ambiguity.  We have finally resolved the issue.

In that time we also identified problems and found solutions to several market manipulation attacks.  These need to be implemented, but then we should be good to go.

As you can see R&D is not predictable when you are at the bleeding edge of innovation and solving problems as they are discovered. 

We are now much, much stronger than we were then and the total industry value proposition is bigger than ever.

I have been lurking through the forums; this statement just made me register on the forum. If I am reading it correctly, your solution to incorrect estimates (not only BTSX but keyhotee too) is not to provide an estimate any more. So basically, what you are saying is "we will never try to make a correct estimate, so yeah lets leave it?" I am just dumbfounded by this way of thinking. :-X


While I also appreciate the amount of work BM has put in compiling the list. The question really is - why weren't they tried before the snapshot or March dates? Is it going to be I3's policy to make a commitment, generate an interest from the public and then say this doesn't work so trust us for some more time? I guess you might think there is a whole new value proposition here so, I3 can get away with its tardiness.

I also work in the IT industry. Whenever I am asked for an estimate, my efforts are always padded with 30% of rework, rethink and general avoidance of being rushed. So if I need 10, I say 13.
In worst case, if I do cross 13 and there is 14/15th day, I am answerable to my end users. I certainly don't take a stance saying "well, as my estimates have proven wrong, so no estimate from here on."

That said, I understand there must be a lot of stress on BM. So if you can't give a day-wise estimate, how about a week/month estimate. Say we are looking at end of June or Q2 end or Q3 , that allays some nerves and certainly better than "we don't know when we will be ready (will it ever be?)"

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