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Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: bitcoinba on July 17, 2014, 03:48:26 pm

Title: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: bitcoinba on July 17, 2014, 03:48:26 pm

Most the info is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2aycxs/hi_this_is_ben_lawsky_at_nydfs_here_are_the/
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: luckybit on July 17, 2014, 07:05:51 pm
How will it effect a DAC?
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: bytemaster on July 17, 2014, 07:11:08 pm
It doesn't, only exchanges.
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: JakeThePanda on July 17, 2014, 07:40:01 pm
It doesn't, only exchanges.

(n) Virtual Currency Business Activity means the conduct of any one of the following types of activities
involving New York or a New York Resident:
(1) receiving Virtual Currency for transmission or transmitting the same;
(2) securing, storing, holding, or maintaining custody or control of Virtual Currency on behalf of others;
(3) buying and selling Virtual Currency as a customer business;
(4) performing retail conversion services, including the conversion or exchange of Fiat Currency or
other value into Virtual Currency, the conversion or exchange of Virtual Currency into Fiat Currency or other
value, or the conversion or exchange of one form of Virtual Currency into another form of Virtual Currency; or
(5) controlling, administering, or issuing a Virtual Currency.

But you aren't a NY resident and these are only proposed regulations at this point.  Plenty of time to release Bitshares and other DACs.
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: toast on July 17, 2014, 07:57:30 pm
^^^  we can build a "POW killswitch" in... if delegates run out of places to operate from then the network can live on, hopefully after this happens once or twice they get the message that delegates do not "control or administer" the DAC
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: biophil on July 17, 2014, 08:08:55 pm
^^^  we can build a "POW killswitch" in... if delegates run out of places to operate from then the network can live on, hopefully after this happens once or twice they get the message that delegates do not "control or administer" the DAC

For this reason, I think a good semantic line-in-the-sand would be to demand that delegates are categorically not "leaders" or "administrators" of any kind; a delegate has one function: to author blocks when it is his responsibility to do so. Absolutely nothing more.

It would be similar to demanding that AGS is "donations," rather than investment. You guys live and die by the idea that saying something loudly and often enough makes it true, regardless of evidence to the contrary. :)
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: bitbro on July 17, 2014, 08:23:06 pm
No kill switch please


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Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: CLains on July 18, 2014, 05:10:50 pm
How do delegates secure themselves against attack? With voting the idea would be that the best ones will figure something out. If people vote for the delegates who decentralize their operations, then that is how they will operate, etc. So long as people vote intelligently, many issues will be solved organically.
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: luckybit on July 18, 2014, 07:01:43 pm
How do delegates secure themselves against attack? With voting the idea would be that the best ones will figure something out. If people vote for the delegates who decentralize their operations, then that is how they will operate, etc. So long as people vote intelligently, many issues will be solved organically.

Automation and decentralization. A cooperative for example can have members all around the world yet function as a delegate. Over time the tasks of a delegate can become increasingly automated as well so that less time and effort is required.

But as of right now a delegate can also just be licensed if it came to that but I really don't like that idea because it would risk stifling innovation. I don't think someone should need a license to issue a virtual currency.
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: fuzzy on July 20, 2014, 04:14:07 am
How do delegates secure themselves against attack? With voting the idea would be that the best ones will figure something out. If people vote for the delegates who decentralize their operations, then that is how they will operate, etc. So long as people vote intelligently, many issues will be solved organically.

Automation and decentralization. A cooperative for example can have members all around the world yet function as a delegate. Over time the tasks of a delegate can become increasingly automated as well so that less time and effort is required.

But as of right now a delegate can also just be licensed if it came to that but I really don't like that idea because it
 would risk stifling innovation. I don't think someone should need a license to issue a virtual currency.

new york is one of the agenda 21 hubs...so it makes perfect sense that they would want to force these "licenses"

"Get your breathing license here! Buy two get one thinking license free!" --future dystopic crier
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: santaclause102 on July 30, 2014, 07:28:16 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0eojG4ayeU
there is a good summary at the beginning. It also say "the license applies to ... altcoin delevopers...".
Did Invictus research this?
I can not think how that should apply. Does anybody have a better insight?
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: eagleeye on September 02, 2014, 11:19:45 pm
^^^  we can build a "POW killswitch" in... if delegates run out of places to operate from then the network can live on, hopefully after this happens once or twice they get the message that delegates do not "control or administer" the DAC

What would a delegate be doing illegally in terms of being a delegate?  The rules arent there this is technology.  But where are the past precedents for when banking regulations were set up back in the 1800s?
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: xeroc on September 03, 2014, 06:21:54 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0eojG4ayeU
there is a good summary at the beginning. It also say "the license applies to ... altcoin delevopers...".
Did Invictus research this?
I can not think how that should apply. Does anybody have a better insight?
Invictus is not an altcoin developer .. they develop a toolkit .. a set of tools that CAN be used to run a cryptocurrency (but also DNS) ... DACSunlimited is running the currency and thus need some laywers for this issue ..
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: santaclause102 on September 03, 2014, 07:24:18 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0eojG4ayeU
there is a good summary at the beginning. It also say "the license applies to ... altcoin delevopers...".
Did Invictus research this?
I can not think how that should apply. Does anybody have a better insight?
Invictus is not an altcoin developer .. they develop a toolkit .. a set of tools that CAN be used to run a cryptocurrency (but also DNS) ... DACSunlimited is running the currency and thus need some laywers for this issue ..
Know the strategy. I'm not a lawyer but I would be interested in what a lawyer thinks of this reasoning.
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: xeroc on September 03, 2014, 08:53:10 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0eojG4ayeU
there is a good summary at the beginning. It also say "the license applies to ... altcoin delevopers...".
Did Invictus research this?
I can not think how that should apply. Does anybody have a better insight?
Invictus is not an altcoin developer .. they develop a toolkit .. a set of tools that CAN be used to run a cryptocurrency (but also DNS) ... DACSunlimited is running the currency and thus need some laywers for this issue ..
Know the strategy. I'm not a lawyer but I would be interested in what a lawyer thinks of this reasoning.
I am almost sure that the lawyers are the only reason for invictus to do it that way in the first place :)
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: bytemaster on September 03, 2014, 02:47:39 pm
Lawyers all say the same basic thing:  It doesn't matter what you do it matters what they accuse you of doing and they can accuse you of anything whether it has a rational basis or not. 

Bottom line everyone in this field is trying their best to stay as far away from "regulated" activity as possible.  For the moment, our risk from publishing software is relatively low compared to those who are running exchanges.   If BitLicense ever goes national then toolkit development will have to continue overseas.   

Fortunately we have a large base of developers and DAC Sun Limited is already overseas. 

I think that BTSX will be stable enough prior to heavy regulation that when it becomes regulated I can cease and desist from my direct involvement if necessary.
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: xeroc on September 03, 2014, 03:57:10 pm
Lawyers all say the same basic thing:  It doesn't matter what you do it matters what they accuse you of doing and they can accuse you of anything whether it has a rational basis or not. 

Bottom line everyone in this field is trying their best to stay as far away from "regulated" activity as possible.  For the moment, our risk from publishing software is relatively low compared to those who are running exchanges.   If BitLicense ever goes national then toolkit development will have to continue overseas.   

Fortunately we have a large base of developers and DAC Sun Limited is already overseas. 

I think that BTSX will be stable enough prior to heavy regulation that when it becomes regulated I can cease and desist from my direct involvement if necessary.
You forgot to mention the islands you are going to buy and live on :)
Title: Re: Apparently NY has released their BitLicense Regulations
Post by: santaclause102 on September 03, 2014, 10:03:21 pm
Lawyers all say the same basic thing:  It doesn't matter what you do it matters what they accuse you of doing and they can accuse you of anything whether it has a rational basis or not. 

Bottom line everyone in this field is trying their best to stay as far away from "regulated" activity as possible.  For the moment, our risk from publishing software is relatively low compared to those who are running exchanges.   If BitLicense ever goes national then toolkit development will have to continue overseas.   

Fortunately we have a large base of developers and DAC Sun Limited is already overseas. 

I think that BTSX will be stable enough prior to heavy regulation that when it becomes regulated I can cease and desist from my direct involvement if necessary.
I agree on the with more or less reason constructed, arbitrary nature of law. But this doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. One can still behave clever towards law or not. Ignoring it doesnt help anyone. But I know that you dont't do that even if you would like to :)