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Quote from: inarizushi on October 24, 2014, 04:13:16 pmBroken promises is much MUCH better than a failed product... Every broken promise had a rational justification and increased our chance of getting BTS to the top.That attitude sucks. The aims do not justify the means.If you break promises it means you can't be trusted. And trust is what cryptocurrencies are about.Btw, there is no proof that the product would have failed without breaking promises. Actually, a couple of days ago everyone was quite happy with the products.
Broken promises is much MUCH better than a failed product... Every broken promise had a rational justification and increased our chance of getting BTS to the top.
Folks, lets be honest here. Of all the people that bought DNS on an exchange, how many of you were waiting for the coinmarketcap listing so you can flip it and make a buck?To the guy who bought DNS at 400 satoshi - you panic bought on no news after seeing a massive price rise, and your fear of missing out greedily caused you to make a poor decision. Sucks for you, don't do that again. Its a lesson every investor will eventually learn, whether the easy way, or the hard way (myself included).To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting? As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas. There is no product.And Toast, I know you're pissed, but why the hell did you rush to release a product with no features? Why were you in a such a hurry to make your ideas tradable to the point where you're doing midnight emergency builds by yourself?Placing value on ideas is a risky business. You can make a lot of money, and you can also get badly burned. If you're crying, you invested money you can't afford to lose. Investor life lesson number 2.What was the estimated market cap of DNS before the crash, 4 million? For a BitShares fork with a new splash screen? Does that sound like a proper valuation for a company with a cloned tradable token and no features, run by a recent college grad with limited life experience and real world business knowledge, on a project that is devoid of critical manpower and infrastructure? If you ask me, bytemasters proposal is more than fair, to the point its sane. Ideas don't realize themselves, they requires competent handlers to execute. Disclaimer: I own a substantial amount of DNS through AGS. I also own BTSX, PTS, and eventually NOTES.
Quote from: sschechter on October 22, 2014, 07:03:35 pmFolks, lets be honest here. Of all the people that bought DNS on an exchange, how many of you were waiting for the coinmarketcap listing so you can flip it and make a buck?To the guy who bought DNS at 400 satoshi - you panic bought on no news after seeing a massive price rise, and your fear of missing out greedily caused you to make a poor decision. Sucks for you, don't do that again. Its a lesson every investor will eventually learn, whether the easy way, or the hard way (myself included).To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting? As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas. There is no product.And Toast, I know you're pissed, but why the hell did you rush to release a product with no features? Why were you in a such a hurry to make your ideas tradable to the point where you're doing midnight emergency builds by yourself?Placing value on ideas is a risky business. You can make a lot of money, and you can also get badly burned. If you're crying, you invested money you can't afford to lose. Investor life lesson number 2.What was the estimated market cap of DNS before the crash, 4 million? For a BitShares fork with a new splash screen? Does that sound like a proper valuation for a company with a cloned tradable token and no features, run by a recent college grad with limited life experience and real world business knowledge, on a project that is devoid of critical manpower and infrastructure? If you ask me, bytemasters proposal is more than fair, to the point its sane. Ideas don't realize themselves, they requires competent handlers to execute. Disclaimer: I own a substantial amount of DNS through AGS. I also own BTSX, PTS, and eventually NOTES.That's the meat of it right there. There are a couple things to keep in mind regarding all of this "merger" business. One is that it involves a certain number of "rich" or "powerful" people whose support I3 needs. All the proposals are designed to placate these people first. Small players have no power, and so have little say in the merger.Two is that buying DNS on an exchange was a pure gamble. In the interest of your long term trading success, It would have been better to get burned and learn the lesson, than to expect to be made whole when you speculate and lose. ( I lost some too :-/)Three I3 giving their 10% in DNS to the traders was a pr move to buy goodwill from the community, showcase their integrity, and their lack of inside trading. They would've had to do this, and likely will have to do more to get the fishy smell off of them. They have shaken people's confidence and the integrity of their word with this change of plans. The reality is that although this "merger" is probably an inprovement, I3 still broke promises to it's supporters, It sold a bill of goods that was not delivered.Fourth these company f*ckups highlight some of the recurring problems with I3. Broken promises is one. Remember keyhotee? Lack of communication. It can be really hard to find the relevant information/ press releases etc. Unnecessary complication. It feels sometimes like complexity is being showcased, not hidden. If DACs are going to be mainstream and loved there, people can't be privy to even a hint of confusion. There must be a zen-like ease of usage, people want cognitive ease and security above all else.The tech is great, but pure tech is not enough. Pure talent is not enough. (The same way that many great bands never get famous.) These weaknesses have to be addressed and soon. The bitshares brand needs to be so smooth and simple that it slips into people's minds with no resistance. People want a way out of the banks, but if they cannot be sold on it in 5 seconds or less, most won't.
QuoteTo the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting? As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas. There is no product.You must be referring to me so to answer your question, I wouldn't have sold a single DNS until at least we beat Namecoin no matter how long this would have taken... 1month - 1yr - 2yrs...Completely irrelevant. I base all my investments based on the speed of development and economic fundamentals. That is the reason I am not and will not sell a single BTSX before we reach the 1 billion market cap at least, no matter how long it takes...1yr - 5yrs... And if we don't reach that cap well I will probably lose my investment. That post although fully on board with DNS getting on BTS, just gave me the impression that DNS just didn't have any value anymore..
To the guy who said he wouldn't sell DNS until it was worth more than Namecoin.......how long were you planning on waiting? As of now, DNS is a rebranded BitShares fork with no other features beyond an IOU future implementation of good ideas. There is no product.
I think we have made all DNS holders whole except those who held their DNS on an exchange.
For the record, I didn't sell any of my DNS shares to other less-informed buyers. I still have every last one of them. I guess they'll be good souvenirs for the DAC Hall of Fame.
Quote from: mf-tzo on October 22, 2014, 03:03:55 pmI ended up giving my liquidity in AGS for DNS shares and ended up with a loss when the price plunged since I had to sell before it loses completely their value...Not only gave away liquidity for a year but also took a loss within a window of 20 minutes from the announcement. Unbelievable... For the record, I didn't sell any of my DNS shares to other less-informed buyers. I still have every last one of them. I guess they'll be good souvenirs for the DAC Hall of Fame.
I ended up giving my liquidity in AGS for DNS shares and ended up with a loss when the price plunged since I had to sell before it loses completely their value...Not only gave away liquidity for a year but also took a loss within a window of 20 minutes from the announcement. Unbelievable...
I ended up giving my liquidity in AGS for DNS shares and ended up with a loss when the price plunged since I had to sell before it loses completely their value...Not only gave away liquidity for a year but also took a loss within a window of 20 minutes from the announcement. Unbelievable... I hope Music doesn't do the same mistake...I had very high expectations for DNS and the 3% announcement just killed all my expectations. I had no intention to sell DNS below Namecoins Market cap..Anyway, what is done is done. There is no coming back now. If you do change the allocation again and DNS decides to compete separately all confidence in the system will be lost for ever. If you change again policy when everything has been priced in now expect people to dump all their BTSX and never come back..In the end of the day we are for the long run. The new BTS will get stronger now once we put all emotions and frustrations on the way and DNS is implemented on the new DAC.
Quote from: springlh on October 22, 2014, 02:30:52 pm ... we could gain more supporters in that DAC....I wouldn't be so sure about that .. at least if you want to use the bitUSD, the bitCNY and all those other assets then there is no reason to put money at a low liquid market in DNS if you can have an high liquid market at BTS(X)
... we could gain more supporters in that DAC....
I did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Quote from: bytemaster on October 22, 2014, 02:21:45 pmQuote from: springlh on October 22, 2014, 02:19:53 pmQuote from: toast on October 22, 2014, 01:01:09 pmI did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...Sent from my SCH-I535 using TapatalkToast, I agree, I'm also for the merger, but the current plan is just like a swallow up to me.... I'm a big fan of the whole DNS / Keyid project and have put a lot of my money to it when the market went up to 400 satoshi.... now... bm want to "merge"?? my money to his super DAC at 150 and still think this is a good idea, sorry, I don't buy it.... it's a robbery...We all get to choose how to look at things, I didn't take your DNS shares, I gifted you BTS stake. DNS folks are still free to compete. You know what, actually I think this is a good... I think a simple DNS system is even better than a "all in one" DAC.... people who need DNS / Keyid doesn't necessarily be the user of X, Music and Vote.... In fact, I think if Toast can keep on working on the DNS / Keyid project ... we could gain more supporters in that DAC....
Quote from: springlh on October 22, 2014, 02:19:53 pmQuote from: toast on October 22, 2014, 01:01:09 pmI did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...Sent from my SCH-I535 using TapatalkToast, I agree, I'm also for the merger, but the current plan is just like a swallow up to me.... I'm a big fan of the whole DNS / Keyid project and have put a lot of my money to it when the market went up to 400 satoshi.... now... bm want to "merge"?? my money to his super DAC at 150 and still think this is a good idea, sorry, I don't buy it.... it's a robbery...We all get to choose how to look at things, I didn't take your DNS shares, I gifted you BTS stake. DNS folks are still free to compete.
Quote from: toast on October 22, 2014, 01:01:09 pmI did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...Sent from my SCH-I535 using TapatalkToast, I agree, I'm also for the merger, but the current plan is just like a swallow up to me.... I'm a big fan of the whole DNS / Keyid project and have put a lot of my money to it when the market went up to 400 satoshi.... now... bm want to "merge"?? my money to his super DAC at 150 and still think this is a good idea, sorry, I don't buy it.... it's a robbery...
Quote from: springlh on October 22, 2014, 02:30:52 pmQuote from: bytemaster on October 22, 2014, 02:21:45 pmQuote from: springlh on October 22, 2014, 02:19:53 pmQuote from: toast on October 22, 2014, 01:01:09 pmI did not approve the allocation BM posted and am furious about the crash in value. I did not see this coming and had been advising everyone that it won't matter what you held.I am for the merger, but BM's execution seriously fucked people who supported me...Sent from my SCH-I535 using TapatalkToast, I agree, I'm also for the merger, but the current plan is just like a swallow up to me.... I'm a big fan of the whole DNS / Keyid project and have put a lot of my money to it when the market went up to 400 satoshi.... now... bm want to "merge"?? my money to his super DAC at 150 and still think this is a good idea, sorry, I don't buy it.... it's a robbery...We all get to choose how to look at things, I didn't take your DNS shares, I gifted you BTS stake. DNS folks are still free to compete. You know what, actually I think this is a good... I think a simple DNS system is even better than a "all in one" DAC.... people who need DNS / Keyid doesn't necessarily be the user of X, Music and Vote.... In fact, I think if Toast can keep on working on the DNS / Keyid project ... we could gain more supporters in that DAC....In fact I hope that DNS continues and offers competition. That is fine with me. BTS is just airdropping on DNS to gain support... however, I suppose DNSers could take their windfall and invest it in competition. I 100% approve of competition. But not my loyalties are not divided...
The case BM made for that is that there was only $10k in liquidity. However, what I feel was heavily factored into the market price of DNS at the time was a faith in Toast as thought leader in the space, the bitshares_toolkit as a whole, and the discussed feature set to come.
@tonyk. totally agree I am not blaming toast. Hence my suggestion to change the subject.But toast assured that the invested funds will be preserved, so I guess it is a legit question to ask for his opinion, right?But I agree the way how you do it matters Just started a new thread to discuss this on 'neutral ground':https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10317.0
Quote from: tonyk on October 22, 2014, 06:40:50 amAnd at the end of the day he is still guilty because you bought DNS?Obviously not. He's guilty because he just handed over KeyID to BitShares without even asking DNS shareholders. So every DNS investor can rightfully feel ripped off.Just like PTS and AGS shareholders aren't even being asked about this so-called "merger". It's just stuffed down their throats and nobody cares if they want it or not.
And at the end of the day he is still guilty because you bought DNS?