Firstly, all the clients are being released, unsigned, on a non-ssl server. A recipe for many people to lose their coins.
Secondly, the 2 hour notice hard-fork. Apart from that equating to a breach of contract, and essentially a dictatorial decision, it is ethically unsound since the initial miners all heavily benefit from this.
The market value has spiked because of this decision, and is classic pump and dump behavior. I lost out heavily because I purchased huge amounts of mining servers for this next month, based on a calculated risk/reward decision, and this change puts me in the red for good.
I can't believe people still fall for this stuff. It's like this entire ecosystem is about who can invent the next convincing scam. It's unfortunate because there are many good ideas here, but this is clearly not the team to execute.
Nothing is going to happen next, this is worse than the Novacoin premine, since here it can't be fixed as easily.
The decision made to intervene with the difficulty is a glimpse at how Invictus will treat problems in the future, with blatant force. The idea that you can manipulate a market(mining markets included) is philosophically opposed to everything bitcoin is about.
It was a huge mistake, and now this coin is tainted and cursed imho. What should have happened is simple. Let it run it's course, and if everything was mined in 2 weeks well there's nothing you can do about it. Either deal with it, or start over.
If anything, you should have retroactively adjusted the block size mining rewards according to a new preset difficulty scale, and so essentially all balances and txn amounts would have been cut by a consistent %. So those who mined 10k protoshares for example would have been left with 2k (as an example). Yes people who had already bought some would have been screwed with less than they bargained, but it is at the very least morally equivalent to what you did to the rest of us.
Perhaps this is still a viable option, of course those who benefited from this blatant manipulation will all of a sudden wake up and realize manipulating the protocol like this is bad - merely showing their hypocrisy, since everyone who already mined a bunch loved this decision. Limit market supply -> price goes up.
All the excuses I'm hearing remind me of that guy who owes me money and keeps telling me about how he had to pay for his car to be fixed, and then he lost his phone, and then his cat got sick...IT'S IRRELEVANT OF THE PRINCIPLE!
Man, sorry that this had to happen to you wrt to the hardware that's not recoverable cost (if you weren't that distraught, I would suggest using that hardware to mine BitShares).
Could things have been done better? Yes. That doesn't imply any malice in my opinion and no 'principles' were violated. Sometimes you gotta do things to survive. Hopefully the whole team can learn a lot from this and the next releases will be smoother.
Also, everything is open source, you're welcome to create your own version if you think people would follow that better.
Fair enough, but remember this also multiplies the expectations from BitShares. Not that it's a bad thing, just saying!Man, sorry that this had to happen to you wrt to the hardware that's not recoverable cost (if you weren't that distraught, I would suggest using that hardware to mine BitShares).
Could things have been done better? Yes. That doesn't imply any malice in my opinion and no 'principles' were violated. Sometimes you gotta do things to survive. Hopefully the whole team can learn a lot from this and the next releases will be smoother.
Also, everything is open source, you're welcome to create your own version if you think people would follow that better.
Hey, Invictus is in a great position! Our mining pool is securing us about 3% of all ProtoShares which will be about 30,000 PTS. Keyhotee IDs are generating revenue. Those 30,000 PTS will be going up in value as the ideas and community grow and ultimately will put us in a very good position. That hardware will still be productive and profitable and of course will be used to mine DomainShares and BitShares when they launch.
Without ProtoShares this forum and community would be much smaller, but now EVERYONE has financial incentive to make BitShares a reality in the market place. We have decentralized our business in the market and *THAT* was our goal. Invictus is turning itself into a DAC via ProtoShares. And this is the secret that few understand :)
Man, sorry that this had to happen to you wrt to the hardware that's not recoverable cost (if you weren't that distraught, I would suggest using that hardware to mine BitShares).
Could things have been done better? Yes. That doesn't imply any malice in my opinion and no 'principles' were violated. Sometimes you gotta do things to survive. Hopefully the whole team can learn a lot from this and the next releases will be smoother.
Also, everything is open source, you're welcome to create your own version if you think people would follow that better.
Hey, Invictus is in a great position! Our mining pool is securing us about 3% of all ProtoShares which will be about 30,000 PTS. Keyhotee IDs are generating revenue. Those 30,000 PTS will be going up in value as the ideas and community grow and ultimately will put us in a very good position. That hardware will still be productive and profitable and of course will be used to mine DomainShares and BitShares when they launch.
Without ProtoShares this forum and community would be much smaller, but now EVERYONE has financial incentive to make BitShares a reality in the market place. We have decentralized our business in the market and *THAT* was our goal. Invictus is turning itself into a DAC via ProtoShares. And this is the secret that few understand :)
Man, sorry that this had to happen to you wrt to the hardware that's not recoverable cost (if you weren't that distraught, I would suggest using that hardware to mine BitShares).
Could things have been done better? Yes. That doesn't imply any malice in my opinion and no 'principles' were violated. Sometimes you gotta do things to survive. Hopefully the whole team can learn a lot from this and the next releases will be smoother.
Also, everything is open source, you're welcome to create your own version if you think people would follow that better.
Hey, Invictus is in a great position! Our mining pool is securing us about 3% of all ProtoShares which will be about 30,000 PTS. Keyhotee IDs are generating revenue. Those 30,000 PTS will be going up in value as the ideas and community grow and ultimately will put us in a very good position. That hardware will still be productive and profitable and of course will be used to mine DomainShares and BitShares when they launch.
Without ProtoShares this forum and community would be much smaller, but now EVERYONE has financial incentive to make BitShares a reality in the market place. We have decentralized our business in the market and *THAT* was our goal. Invictus is turning itself into a DAC via ProtoShares. And this is the secret that few understand :)
I figured that Protoshares were a stock in Invictus and that it is a DAC. Will we get dividends if we hold onto the Protoshares?
3) The fork came just in time to save the investment of ALL holders, not just early miners. Later guys are actually lucky to be getting anything
4) just like any race if you get there first, you get first place you cant come in @ the back and expect us to celebrate you.
3) The fork came just in time to save the investment of ALL holders, not just early miners. Later guys are actually lucky to be getting anything
4) just like any race if you get there first, you get first place you cant come in @ the back and expect us to celebrate you.
Do you hear yourself talking? "Later" ?? "the back" ???
This thing went from being a viable idea to a cesspool run by cloud miners and botnets in 2 weeks flat. It wasn't months or years like previous crypto currencies. It was 2 WEEKS! It has to be a world record.
This is purely led by greed. Big cloud mining farms drain the pond and suck up all the money. Everyone else gets nothing. In the end you'll have 10 guys sitting on 2,000,000 PTS each and the rest of the people will have 2 or 3. Most people will move on and look for the next new CPU mining opportunity and this project will fade away just like FTC or TRC or CNC. So, enjoy your 2,000,000 shares of nothing. Hopefully you'll dump early and make some money.
it doesn't matter who mines them it matters who holds them while they appreciate. Most of the major miners out there must turn around and sell their PTS to cover their expense
it doesn't matter who mines them it matters who holds them while they appreciate. Most of the major miners out there must turn around and sell their PTS to cover their expense
That's where you're wrong. It DOES matter who mines them. Because if you get 10,000 small guys mining a bit and making some coin they'll stick around and support your project. If you get 10 guys sucking up all the resources with vast cloud mining pools you'll have nobody to support you. As soon as the financial opportunity dries up those 10 guys will dump their PTS and move on. You'll end up being the leader of a broken down crypto experiment that nobody cares about any more. If you don't get the wide base of supporters in the beginning your project is doomed. I hope you figure out some way to make it work. Maybe on the next DAC you should focus all your efforts on trying to make it accessible to the millions of CPU miners at home who don't want to compete with botnets.
it doesn't matter who mines them it matters who holds them while they appreciate. Most of the major miners out there must turn around and sell their PTS to cover their expense
That's where you're wrong. It DOES matter who mines them. Because if you get 10,000 small guys mining a bit and making some coin they'll stick around and support your project. If you get 10 guys sucking up all the resources with vast cloud mining pools you'll have nobody to support you. As soon as the financial opportunity dries up those 10 guys will dump their PTS and move on. You'll end up being the leader of a broken down crypto experiment that nobody cares about any more.
If you don't get the wide base of supporters in the beginning your project is doomed. I hope you figure out some way to make it work. Maybe on the next DAC you should focus all your efforts on trying to make it accessible to the millions of CPU miners at home who don't want to compete with botnets. Figure out a way to block cloud miners and botnets and you'll become the king of cryptos.
it doesn't matter who mines them it matters who holds them while they appreciate. Most of the major miners out there must turn around and sell their PTS to cover their expense
That's where you're wrong. It DOES matter who mines them. Because if you get 10,000 small guys mining a bit and making some coin they'll stick around and support your project. If you get 10 guys sucking up all the resources with vast cloud mining pools you'll have nobody to support you. As soon as the financial opportunity dries up those 10 guys will dump their PTS and move on. You'll end up being the leader of a broken down crypto experiment that nobody cares about any more.
If you don't get the wide base of supporters in the beginning your project is doomed. I hope you figure out some way to make it work. Maybe on the next DAC you should focus all your efforts on trying to make it accessible to the millions of CPU miners at home who don't want to compete with botnets. Figure out a way to block cloud miners and botnets and you'll become the king of cryptos.
what do you think dumping means?
it means selling to other people: the new supporters
it doesn't matter who mines them it matters who holds them while they appreciate. Most of the major miners out there must turn around and sell their PTS to cover their expense
That's where you're wrong. It DOES matter who mines them. Because if you get 10,000 small guys mining a bit and making some coin they'll stick around and support your project. If you get 10 guys sucking up all the resources with vast cloud mining pools you'll have nobody to support you. As soon as the financial opportunity dries up those 10 guys will dump their PTS and move on. You'll end up being the leader of a broken down crypto experiment that nobody cares about any more.
If you don't get the wide base of supporters in the beginning your project is doomed. I hope you figure out some way to make it work. Maybe on the next DAC you should focus all your efforts on trying to make it accessible to the millions of CPU miners at home who don't want to compete with botnets. Figure out a way to block cloud miners and botnets and you'll become the king of cryptos.
what do you think dumping means?
it means selling to other people: the new supporters
Two profound observations:
1. We would love to please everybody.
2. You can't please everybody.
Everybody has a different definition of "fair", usually meaning "what works best for them."
The momentum algorithm was the result of a lot of R&D and bounties to come up with a "more fair" solution and to achieve the goal of maximum decentralization. Our Prime Directive. Maximum decentralization inherently means "benefit the little guys".
We will continue to search for better ways to achieve this goal and sponsor bounties to stimulate community research toward that end.
But this is an arms race. People with great resources will always find a way to out-compete those who don't. Every move we make will have counter moves. We will then make counter-counter moves.Because Distributed Autonomous Corporations are not incorruptible if they are not distributed and autonomous.
Centralization is the enemy of everything we stand for.
And fighting it is more important to us than personal wealth.
it doesn't matter who mines them it matters who holds them while they appreciate. Most of the major miners out there must turn around and sell their PTS to cover their expense
That's where you're wrong. It DOES matter who mines them. Because if you get 10,000 small guys mining a bit and making some coin they'll stick around and support your project. If you get 10 guys sucking up all the resources with vast cloud mining pools you'll have nobody to support you. As soon as the financial opportunity dries up those 10 guys will dump their PTS and move on. You'll end up being the leader of a broken down crypto experiment that nobody cares about any more.
If you don't get the wide base of supporters in the beginning your project is doomed. I hope you figure out some way to make it work. Maybe on the next DAC you should focus all your efforts on trying to make it accessible to the millions of CPU miners at home who don't want to compete with botnets. Figure out a way to block cloud miners and botnets and you'll become the king of cryptos.
+1it doesn't matter who mines them it matters who holds them while they appreciate. Most of the major miners out there must turn around and sell their PTS to cover their expense
That's where you're wrong. It DOES matter who mines them. Because if you get 10,000 small guys mining a bit and making some coin they'll stick around and support your project. If you get 10 guys sucking up all the resources with vast cloud mining pools you'll have nobody to support you. As soon as the financial opportunity dries up those 10 guys will dump their PTS and move on. You'll end up being the leader of a broken down crypto experiment that nobody cares about any more.
If you don't get the wide base of supporters in the beginning your project is doomed. I hope you figure out some way to make it work. Maybe on the next DAC you should focus all your efforts on trying to make it accessible to the millions of CPU miners at home who don't want to compete with botnets. Figure out a way to block cloud miners and botnets and you'll become the king of cryptos.
Amen. ;)
it doesn't matter who mines them it matters who holds them while they appreciate. Most of the major miners out there must turn around and sell their PTS to cover their expense
That's where you're wrong. It DOES matter who mines them. Because if you get 10,000 small guys mining a bit and making some coin they'll stick around and support your project. If you get 10 guys sucking up all the resources with vast cloud mining pools you'll have nobody to support you. As soon as the financial opportunity dries up those 10 guys will dump their PTS and move on. You'll end up being the leader of a broken down crypto experiment that nobody cares about any more.
If you don't get the wide base of supporters in the beginning your project is doomed. I hope you figure out some way to make it work. Maybe on the next DAC you should focus all your efforts on trying to make it accessible to the millions of CPU miners at home who don't want to compete with botnets. Figure out a way to block cloud miners and botnets and you'll become the king of cryptos.
what do you think dumping means?
it means selling to other people: the new supporters
Two profound observations:
1. We would love to please everybody.
2. You can't please everybody.
Everybody has a different definition of "fair", usually meaning "what works best for them."
The momentum algorithm was the result of a lot of R&D and bounties to come up with a "more fair" solution and to achieve the goal of maximum decentralization. Our Prime Directive. Maximum decentralization inherently means "benefit the little guys".
We will continue to search for better ways to achieve this goal and sponsor bounties to stimulate community research toward that end.
But this is an arms race. People with great resources will always find a way to out-compete those who don't. Every move we make will have counter moves. We will then make counter-counter moves.Because Distributed Autonomous Corporations are not incorruptible if they are not distributed and autonomous.
Centralization is the enemy of everything we stand for.
And fighting it is more important to us than personal wealth.
+1
I hear you guys with 3000+ vps accounts were pulling in 250pts/hour. Let me tell you what happened here. Greed overcame logic and you lost out on your gamble. Everyone knows that alt coins, even bit coins are not a sure thing. Good luck recovering you losses. I'm sure glad I didn't have coinlust at the time and did something stupid like I did a few months ago.. :o
Live and learn...
I hear you guys with 3000+ vps accounts were pulling in 250pts/hour. Let me tell you what happened here. Greed overcame logic and you lost out on your gamble. Everyone knows that alt coins, even bit coins are not a sure thing. Good luck recovering you losses. I'm sure glad I didn't have coinlust at the time and did something stupid like I did a few months ago.. :o
Live and learn...
A centralized or even pseudo-centralized currency is something we want to avoid.+1it doesn't matter who mines them it matters who holds them while they appreciate. Most of the major miners out there must turn around and sell their PTS to cover their expense
That's where you're wrong. It DOES matter who mines them. Because if you get 10,000 small guys mining a bit and making some coin they'll stick around and support your project. If you get 10 guys sucking up all the resources with vast cloud mining pools you'll have nobody to support you. As soon as the financial opportunity dries up those 10 guys will dump their PTS and move on. You'll end up being the leader of a broken down crypto experiment that nobody cares about any more.
If you don't get the wide base of supporters in the beginning your project is doomed. I hope you figure out some way to make it work. Maybe on the next DAC you should focus all your efforts on trying to make it accessible to the millions of CPU miners at home who don't want to compete with botnets. Figure out a way to block cloud miners and botnets and you'll become the king of cryptos.
Amen. ;)
Protoshare will becomes a pseudo-centralize currency!
A centralized or even pseudo-centralized currency is something we want to avoid.+1it doesn't matter who mines them it matters who holds them while they appreciate. Most of the major miners out there must turn around and sell their PTS to cover their expense
That's where you're wrong. It DOES matter who mines them. Because if you get 10,000 small guys mining a bit and making some coin they'll stick around and support your project. If you get 10 guys sucking up all the resources with vast cloud mining pools you'll have nobody to support you. As soon as the financial opportunity dries up those 10 guys will dump their PTS and move on. You'll end up being the leader of a broken down crypto experiment that nobody cares about any more.
If you don't get the wide base of supporters in the beginning your project is doomed. I hope you figure out some way to make it work. Maybe on the next DAC you should focus all your efforts on trying to make it accessible to the millions of CPU miners at home who don't want to compete with botnets. Figure out a way to block cloud miners and botnets and you'll become the king of cryptos.
Amen. ;)
Protoshare will becomes a pseudo-centralize currency!
In a number of current articles at LetsTalkBitcoin.com we have documented our definition of what constitutes a true Distributed Autonomous Corporation (DAC). You can find them on the links tab at Invictus-Innovations.com
Invictus Innovations, INC is a flesh and blood company subject to all of the risks and regulations of the jurisdictions in which we operate. We are highly distributed by design, but we are not autonomous and do not have DAC-like immunity to coercion from the Powers That Be. We remain Invictus Innovations, INC. ProtoShares might in some ways be viewed metaphorically as Invictus, DAC.
+++++++++++++++++++1111111!1it doesn't matter who mines them it matters who holds them while they appreciate. Most of the major miners out there must turn around and sell their PTS to cover their expense
That's where you're wrong. It DOES matter who mines them. Because if you get 10,000 small guys mining a bit and making some coin they'll stick around and support your project. If you get 10 guys sucking up all the resources with vast cloud mining pools you'll have nobody to support you. As soon as the financial opportunity dries up those 10 guys will dump their PTS and move on. You'll end up being the leader of a broken down crypto experiment that nobody cares about any more.
If you don't get the wide base of supporters in the beginning your project is doomed. I hope you figure out some way to make it work. Maybe on the next DAC you should focus all your efforts on trying to make it accessible to the millions of CPU miners at home who don't want to compete with botnets. Figure out a way to block cloud miners and botnets and you'll become the king of cryptos.
what do you think dumping means?
it means selling to other people: the new supporters
Two profound observations:
1. We would love to please everybody.
2. You can't please everybody.
Everybody has a different definition of "fair", usually meaning "what works best for them."
The momentum algorithm was the result of a lot of R&D and bounties to come up with a "more fair" solution and to achieve the goal of maximum decentralization. Our Prime Directive. Maximum decentralization inherently means "benefit the little guys".
We will continue to search for better ways to achieve this goal and sponsor bounties to stimulate community research toward that end.
But this is an arms race. People with great resources will always find a way to out-compete those who don't. Every move we make will have counter moves. We will then make counter-counter moves.Because Distributed Autonomous Corporations are not incorruptible if they are not distributed and autonomous.
Centralization is the enemy of everything we stand for.
And fighting it is more important to us than personal wealth.