BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: alt on March 18, 2015, 12:16:12 am

Title: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: alt on March 18, 2015, 12:16:12 am
now, almost all BTS trades at BTC38
and BTC38 have do nothing to prove their balance is true.
so this is a very big bug!
exchange can control the price very easy, I will not surprise even BTS down to zero.

so please make BTS to more exchange especially out of China , and push exchange to prove they are trusted.
this is a very emergency  task!
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: bluebit on March 18, 2015, 12:19:32 am
I already sold all my BTS, doesn't look good.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: Ander on March 18, 2015, 12:20:33 am
Well, every one of us could remove 100% of our BTS from all the exchanges, and see what happens.   (And it could greatly increase voting as well and make the network more secure).

I agree that some proof that exchanges are not running on a fractional reserve would be very good.  The weirdness and quantity of dumping on bter right before they went down was pretty suspicious, and I was extremely worried when they came back up but didnt allow withdrawals. 


Almost all my BTS is now off of exchanges, only small trading positions left.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: clayop on March 18, 2015, 12:22:58 am
Totally agreed. Why don't we trade on BTS:BitUSD / BTS:BitCNY markets?
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: alt on March 18, 2015, 12:47:19 am
Totally agreed. Why don't we trade on BTS:BitUSD / BTS:BitCNY markets?
it's the best market, but it's not enough, there is not enough volume for BITUSD and BITCNY.
we still need fiat gateway for iou USD,CNY....
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: cube on March 18, 2015, 01:14:21 am
Well, every one of us could remove 100% of our BTS from all the exchanges, and see what happens.   (And it could greatly increase voting as well and make the network more secure).
..

Almost all my BTS is now off of exchanges, only small trading positions left.

I second that.  The Bter hack is a reminder to us that we should not take chances. Your money is safer in your own wallet.

now, almost all BTS trades at BTC38
..
so please make BTS to more exchange especially out of China , and push exchange to prove they are trusted.
this is a very emergency  task!

We do need to spread the trades to other exchanges. Poloniex seems good and reliable.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: arhag on March 18, 2015, 02:09:55 am
and BTC38 have do nothing to prove their balance is true.
so this is a very big bug!
exchange can control the price very easy, I will not surprise even BTS down to zero.

You know which exchange we actually can trust to be honest? The BitShares decentralized exchange.  :)

It may be too soon, but my hope is that we can have the vast majority of BTS trading volume happen on the BitShares DEX in the near future. We likely need secure lightweight/web wallets with exchange support before that can happen though. We also need a multisig protected BTC gateway UIA. @dannotestein, what will it take to get TRADE.BTC protected by multisig (on both BTC reserve side and TRADE.BTC UIA side) in a easy-to-deploy solution that can be utilized by some subset of the delegates? I think the money-making part should be left to the bridge service and that the gateway should be more of a public good for the BTS community (it should still be profitable to operate though) which means making this easy-to-deploy software solution open source and allowing a subset of the delegates operate it with low profit margins.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: carpet ride on March 18, 2015, 02:21:17 am
We should have BitUSD and bitCNY volume registering under BitShares on CMC as well as under the BitAssets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: alt on March 18, 2015, 02:33:33 am
I have ask BTC38 to prove their balance,
and most of China user have withdraw their BTS from btc38
but they still ignore, and  don't have any response.

http://weibo.com/1570505863/C8WLhBcUY?type=repost#_rnd1426645854885

I am thinking, if exchange sell fake BTS, the price is control, should we suspend feed price?  what should we do?
we need make ready early.
@bytemaster
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: Riverhead on March 18, 2015, 02:49:35 am
and BTC38 have do nothing to prove their balance is true.
so this is a very big bug!
exchange can control the price very easy, I will not surprise even BTS down to zero.

You know which exchange we actually can trust to be honest? The BitShares decentralized exchange.  :)

It may be too soon, but my hope is that we can have the vast majority of BTS trading volume happen on the BitShares DEX in the near future. We likely need secure lightweight/web wallets with exchange support before that can happen though. We also need a multisig protected BTC gateway UIA. @dannotestein, what will it take to get TRADE.BTC protected by multisig (on both BTC reserve side and TRADE.BTC UIA side) in a easy-to-deploy solution that can be utilized by some subset of the delegates? I think the money-making part should be left to the bridge service and that the gateway should be more of a public good for the BTS community (it should still be profitable to operate though) which means making this easy-to-deploy software solution open source and allowing a subset of the delegates operate it with low profit margins.

Agree 100%

There is also Metaexchange.info. As volume ramps up so will their depth.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: arhag on March 18, 2015, 02:57:08 am
There is also Metaexchange.info. As volume ramps up so will their depth.

It's great but it's not really an exchange, it's a bridge. Basically you can only place market orders. You can't place orders at particular prices into the order book.

Also, I think the market makers should all be competing with their bots on a neutral platform (the DEX). The bridge would still want to keep some floating funds to instantaneously find the best liquidity path from the source asset to the target asset (that is the convenient service the bridge provides to users IMO), but I think the serious market makers should be decoupled from any bridge and operating for profit by themselves on the neutral DEX. And traders wouldn't be using a bridge, they would place their own orders directly on the exchange.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: Riverhead on March 18, 2015, 03:08:36 am
There is also Metaexchange.info. As volume ramps up so will their depth.

It's great but it's not really an exchange, it's a bridge. Basically you can only place market orders. You can't place orders at particular prices into the order book.

Correct. I was thinking more in terms of an off ramp from the DEX to BTC vs using BTC38.

I've started to increase my funds on my internal MM bots.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on March 18, 2015, 03:17:42 am
There is also Metaexchange.info. As volume ramps up so will their depth.

It's great but it's not really an exchange, it's a bridge. Basically you can only place market orders. You can't place orders at particular prices into the order book.

Also, I think the market makers should all be competing with their bots on a neutral platform (the DEX). The bridge would still want to keep some floating funds to instantaneously find the best liquidity path from the source asset to the target asset (that is the convenient service the bridge provides to users IMO), but I think the serious market makers should be decoupled from any bridge and operating for profit by themselves on the neutral DEX. And traders wouldn't be using a bridge, they would place their own orders directly on the exchange.

 +5%

I would love to see this.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: cube on March 18, 2015, 03:23:12 am
I have ask BTC38 to prove their balance,
and most of China user have withdraw their BTS from btc38
but they still ignore, and  don't have any response.

http://weibo.com/1570505863/C8WLhBcUY?type=repost#_rnd1426645854885

I am thinking, if exchange sell fake BTS, the price is control, should we suspend feed price?  what should we do?
we need make ready early.
@bytemaster

From BTC38's Weibo, it seems a lot of users are questioning the validity of the exchange's cold storage balance.  Are you implying that they are faking their BTS BUY-SELL transactions?  They do not have the volume as what they pretend to be?
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: alt on March 18, 2015, 03:28:20 am
it's not about fake volume, maybe some cheat, like sell fake BTS at higher price, control the price down and down
then buy back at low price.
because they don't give any prove about the balance, so they can make BTS price to zero.

I have ask BTC38 to prove their balance,
and most of China user have withdraw their BTS from btc38
but they still ignore, and  don't have any response.

http://weibo.com/1570505863/C8WLhBcUY?type=repost#_rnd1426645854885

I am thinking, if exchange sell fake BTS, the price is control, should we suspend feed price?  what should we do?
we need make ready early.
@bytemaster

From BTC38's Weibo, it seems a lot of users are questioning the validity of the exchange's cold storage balance.  Are you implying that they are faking their BTS BUY-SELL transactions?  They do not have the volume as what they pretend to be?
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: btswildpig on March 18, 2015, 03:34:04 am
Alt is saying they're selling BTS-IOUs that can be increased more than the BTS they actually have .

Just pop in and translate this for alt .
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: Ander on March 18, 2015, 03:44:27 am
I withdrew the daily max just now from btc38 and will withdraw the rest of mine tomorrow.

They claim to have 258 million bts total among all users.


If any exchange actulaly is faking reserves and is selling extra BTS, then if all the users withdraw it is like issuing them a margin call on a short position, it forces them to buy shares to cover withdrawals, and drives up the price.

Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: Ander on March 18, 2015, 03:49:48 am
How can one see how many BTS are in an account on the blockchain?  I thought we couldnt do this because of titan.  How do we verify that btc38 has the claimed 258M bts?
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: btswildpig on March 18, 2015, 03:51:18 am
How can one see how many BTS are in an account on the blockchain?  I thought we couldnt do this because of titan.  How do we verify that btc38 has the claimed 258M bts?

If they're willing to vote once , then the vote record with large amount will be seen .
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: alt on March 18, 2015, 03:51:38 am
max? how many BTS have you withdraw?
there is never limit before as I know
 
I withdrew the daily max just now from btc38 and will withdraw the rest of mine tomorrow.

They claim to have 258 million bts total among all users.


If any exchange actulaly is faking reserves and is selling extra BTS, then if all the users withdraw it is like issuing them a margin call on a short position, it forces them to buy shares to cover withdrawals, and drives up the price.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: Ander on March 18, 2015, 03:51:53 am
I wonder what would happen if everyone buys and withdraws from btc38.  If they are running a fractional reserve at all, we could short squeeze them really hard.   That woulds be very interesting.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: Ander on March 18, 2015, 03:52:26 am
max? how many BTS have you withdraw?
there is never limit before as I know
 

I withdrew 300k and now it says I have hit daily max.  I only have ~30k left on there.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: sudo on March 18, 2015, 03:53:05 am
I withdrew the daily max just now from btc38 and will withdraw the rest of mine tomorrow.

They claim to have 258 million bts total among all users.


If any exchange actulaly is faking reserves and is selling extra BTS, then if all the users withdraw it is like issuing them a margin call on a short position, it forces them to buy shares to cover withdrawals, and drives up the price.

contact with the customer  to fuck the shit limit.
leave bts on btc38 is dangerous
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: sudo on March 18, 2015, 03:54:26 am
How can one see how many BTS are in an account on the blockchain?  I thought we couldnt do this because of titan.  How do we verify that btc38 has the claimed 258M bts?

If they're willing to vote once , then the vote record with large amount will be seen .

yes  vote  record
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: Ander on March 18, 2015, 03:55:07 am
Its possible that the limit is there because my account is new?  I only registered it this week so that I could move btc there from bter and buy BTS, back when bter wasnt allowing withdrawals. 

I took it out tonight and it let me take most of it, but not all.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: Ander on March 18, 2015, 03:56:57 am
yes  vote  record

Since its their cold storage that they say has 258M shares, it might be hard/risky for them to vote?  They would have to expose it.
We need to make sure their cold storage bts doesnt get hacked, that would be a nightmare.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: arhag on March 18, 2015, 03:57:51 am
They claim to have 258 million bts total among all users.

Wow! That's over 10% of the supply. Is that typical? I wonder what percentage of BTC are on exchanges.

Imagine, that is 10% of BTS that could have been voting if it was trading on the DEX (and voting with collateral and market order BTS was supported).

If people are going to use BTS on outside exchanges it would at the very least be nice if it was BitBTS (a BitAsset that has 100% collateral requirements, no margin calls, and a fixed price of 1 BitBTS/BTS). BitBTS would allow people to self-short in order to split BTS into its voting rights (BTS held in collateral in the BitBTS short positions) and its value (BitBTS which can be used to claim the same quantity of real BTS in less than 30 days).


How can one see how many BTS are in an account on the blockchain?  I thought we couldnt do this because of titan.  How do we verify that btc38 has the claimed 258M bts?

If they're willing to vote once , then the vote record with large amount will be seen .

I'm sure a blockchain analysis could give us a pretty good estimate even without votes if we see which balances our deposit go to and withdrawals come from.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: alt on March 18, 2015, 04:38:01 am
I have confirmed, the limit is to everyone.
Its possible that the limit is there because my account is new?  I only registered it this week so that I could move btc there from bter and buy BTS, back when bter wasnt allowing withdrawals. 

I took it out tonight and it let me take most of it, but not all.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: sudo on March 18, 2015, 05:02:48 am
Its possible that the limit is there because my account is new?  I only registered it this week so that I could move btc there from bter and buy BTS, back when bter wasnt allowing withdrawals. 

I took it out tonight and it let me take most of it, but not all.

contact  & withdrawal   gogogo!!



customer say
时代客服小叮当:您好,这种限制只是防止黑客与盗窃者,只需要通过核对是本人在操作的,我们会可以为用户增加到用户资金的全部,而且这种限制并不是限制一个币种的提现,而是用户帐户的总资产。

Era tinker bell service: hello, this limitation is to prevent hackers and by the thief, need only through the check is in operation, we will all may increase for the user to the user, and the limit is not the limiting a withdrawal of currency, but the total assets of user accounts.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: cube on March 18, 2015, 05:04:56 am
They claim to have 258 million bts total among all users.

Wow! That's over 10% of the supply. Is that typical? I wonder what percentage of BTC are on exchanges.

Imagine, that is 10% of BTS that could have been voting if it was trading on the DEX (and voting with collateral and market order BTS was supported).

...

10% of the entire voting power.  Wow.. that is a lot!  How can we convince the public and bitcoiners in particular that bts delegate voting is fair and secured?
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: cube on March 18, 2015, 05:06:37 am
I wonder what would happen if everyone buys and withdraws from btc38.  If they are running a fractional reserve at all, we could short squeeze them really hard.   That woulds be very interesting.

Yes, that would be a good test.  Let's withdraw and keeps our bts safe in wallet.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: sudo on March 18, 2015, 05:16:25 am
BTS存量证明
    1、btc38创建新的bts账号,现在GUI默认创建的是public account 公开账户
    2、把冷存的bts都转移过去
    3、热钱包也可以创建新的public account
    4、任何用户可以随时查到余额,用blockchain_get_account_public_balance
    5、如果懒得新建Public账户,那给客户提现,你们冷钱包转账出去的时候随手把余额转到冷钱包的主账户地址也行。区块链上可以查到这2亿多的bts流动


BTS stock certificate
1, btc38 to create a new account, BTS now GUI is created by default public account open account
2, all the BTS cold storage transfer in the past
3, hot purse can also create new public account
4, any user can check the balance at any time, use blockchain_get_account_public_balance
5, if too lazy to new Public account, the withdrawal to customers, you cold wallet transfer out conveniently transfer balance to cold wallet primary account address. Can find that more than 200 million blocks, chain of BTS flow
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: luckybit on March 18, 2015, 07:23:10 am
now, almost all BTS trades at BTC38
and BTC38 have do nothing to prove their balance is true.
so this is a very big bug!
exchange can control the price very easy, I will not surprise even BTS down to zero.

so please make BTS to more exchange especially out of China , and push exchange to prove they are trusted.
this is a very emergency  task!

I guess I should prepare for another 20% price drop. BTS to $15 million marketcap or even $10 million if some bs happens with the exchange.

Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: Gentso1 on March 18, 2015, 12:39:25 pm
Its possible that the limit is there because my account is new?  I only registered it this week so that I could move btc there from bter and buy BTS, back when bter wasnt allowing withdrawals. 

I took it out tonight and it let me take most of it, but not all.

contact  & withdrawal   gogogo!!





customer say
时代客服小叮当:您好,这种限制只是防止黑客与盗窃者,只需要通过核对是本人在操作的,我们会可以为用户增加到用户资金的全部,而且这种限制并不是限制一个币种的提现,而是用户帐户的总资产。

Era tinker bell service: hello, this limitation is to prevent hackers and by the thief, need only through the check is in operation, we will all may increase for the user to the user, and the limit is not the limiting a withdrawal of currency, but the total assets of user accounts.

I have withdrawn much larger amounts, just contact them and ask for a limit raise.
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: svk on March 18, 2015, 12:48:53 pm
What's the actual cause of this concern from the Chinese side? Do you suspect BTC38 does this with all their coins or is it specific to BTS? If so, why?? And is there any kind of proof involved here?
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on March 18, 2015, 12:58:48 pm
What's the actual cause of this concern from the Chinese side? Do you suspect BTC38 does this with all their coins or is it specific to BTS? If so, why?? And is there any kind of proof involved here?

Same questions here. Did something happen recently to cause people to suspect this? Or has this been a potential problem all along and people are just now realizing it?
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: alt on March 18, 2015, 01:38:05 pm
I'm not saying anything for sure.
But let us discuss some technical measures in case unreal price happen in the centralized exchange that lead to a malfunction price feed

what will we do, if BTC38 sell fake BTS, and control the price?
should we pause feed price?
@Bytemaster
Title: Re: exchange is a big bomb!
Post by: liondani on March 18, 2015, 01:55:18 pm
I don't want to say more at this time.
but I really need all delegate be ready to face this situation!
what will we do, if BTC38 sell fake BTS, and control the price?
should we pause feed price?
@Bytemaster
It would be smarter to pm the devs before doing this...  Just my 2 bts

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