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Messages - Markus

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316
General Discussion / Re: Do BitShares need an interest rate?
« on: February 01, 2014, 11:34:53 pm »
I interpreted the +5% as allowing for some wiggle room between spot and market. If it is 0%, you should have a tighter correlation. Although lots of people are saying "oh boy, we get +5%!" I don't think they realize it is meaningless since assets will be priced taking that +5% into account, so in reality they will get some market interest rate (bit assets will be priced assuming a 5% growth). It's like buying a one year 5% coupon bond at a 4% premium, you're really getting something like 1%, even though it says +5%.

Well, I guess what I'm saying is it almost doesn't matter what % you choose, the market in the long run will correct itself (if +5% is too high, asset value decreases over time, if it is too low, asset value increases over time). The bigger the %, the less correlated to spot in the short term. The bigger the %, the more people "feel" like it is a bank.

It is a tad tricker than just a premium because there is no expiration date where it comes to 'maturity' so I think it really could be 5% gains funded from those who expect BTS to go up by more than 5% and thus short it.   The market peg might even keep it parity with USD even with 5% interest because I think the peg may be mostly independent of the 5%.    To be honest we will just have to experiment because there are too many variables for me to model in my head.

I think it would work, as long as a majority believes BTS will appreciate by at least 5% p.a. against the relevant BitAsset. This will most likely be true at the beginning, rewarding all early adopters. Once the value of BTS becomes saturated any drop in price of the BitAsset below the perceived fair value of the infinite bond (far above parity) will be taken advantage of by new longs. Because this fair price is difficult to agree on this will mean high volatility (bad tracking) and possibly drying up BitAsset supply (leading to the BitAsset price floating up and up and up - totally losing tracking).
Just my thoughts, it is very difficult to predict the behaviour of such a novel concept. Definitely too many variables.

This is very similar to the original Ponzi scheme which works fine as long as there is an influx of new capital which is used to pay the high interest promised to the early adopters. Once the supply of new capital stops the bubble pops.

The new question is, will 0% interest rate cause a drop below parity?
Yes: Zero coupon bonds trade at a discount because they earn an interest (0% p.a.) below market rate and they are not redeemable until a point in time far in the future. Because BitAssets are only redeemable after ∞ years they should even be trading at 0 value.
No: Cash does not really trade at a discount to the dollars in my savings account. There are not really any assets around you can earn interest on while holding them yourself. You always have to lend your money to somebody else. Somebody might offer a BitUSD savings account and offer interest on it. If a BitAsset trades below parity shorts would start covering because there is a short-term opportunity to make a profit. And opposed to the case with 5% interest it is now clear where the fair value is.

For now I am tending to "No" but I can't "prove" it yet.

317
DAC PLAY / Re: PokerChips: Hosting Fair RNG Sessions
« on: February 01, 2014, 05:37:50 am »
wow, love this idea so much.

But at present the US has made online poker illegal on a federal level through the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA). Will there be a problem?

No problem at all.
ROW* comprises 6 890 000 000 people and has an annual GDP of 56 445 000 000 000 USD.


* http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Rest_of_the_world

318
General Discussion / Re: Idea/Patent Markets
« on: February 01, 2014, 05:23:57 am »

319
General Discussion / Re: Do BitShares need an interest rate?
« on: February 01, 2014, 01:28:57 am »
If the interest rate goes too high then the value of BitUSD would rise... as USD holders seek to buy BitUSD for a solid return... too low and it will fall as USD holders move elsewhere.   Thus it could be said that BitUSD with an interest rate of 0 will be pegged to the value of CASH.   BitUSD with an interest rate of 5% will be pegged to the value of a 5% treasury note.

So what does this mean for a blockchain?  To maximize the value of the chain you want to maximize the number of people storing value IN the chain.  Most people don't keep CASH on hand because they can at least earn SOME interest in the bank.   

My conclusion is that 0% interest will approximate cash and if you want to hedge against inflation having a separate BitAsset pegged to the inflation rate with 0% return would solve the problem. 

If the prediction market is always working to bring the current value of BitUSD to be equal to the dollar then the only premium or discount you will see based upon whether money is flowing into or out of BitUSD / USD.

Conclusion... any interest rate placed on BitUSD and/or shorting in this system may be irrelevant and an unnecessary added complexity that merely biases the market and breaks the peg with a premium in one direction or another.   If the interest rate merely prevents shorts from entering the market until the price is 5% too high given their time horizon why implement it.

Not implementing interest at all would be simpler and if the economic consequences are the same then perhaps it would be best to forgo interest in the initial chain?

Simplicity seems to be the best option :)
 

+0%

320
General Discussion / Re: Bts vs Btc
« on: January 31, 2014, 05:28:01 am »
Does your mattress give  +5%?

Sometimes a mattress gives you +50% :)

321
General Discussion / Re: Mining for World Domination!
« on: January 30, 2014, 05:31:44 am »
Very funny :)

A bit difficult to focus on the subtitles though if your native language is German.

322
BitShares AGS / Re: Repost: Announcing AGS & BitShares Allocation
« on: January 30, 2014, 02:29:30 am »

It says: "Be vigilant! Watch for slow days and anyone can snag some great bargains."

Also people mention things like some guy is buying 10 BTC worth each day.

How do you get this kind of information?

Brent Allsop

Start here https://blockchain.info/de/address/1KVR6eyJMuXJJGNFjAGpS9F167GqzEg2d9
and click yourself through to the addresses receiving the change. You'll see that one guy has invested about 275 BTC into AGS and has at least 205 BTC left to spend.
If he keeps it up he will end up with about  +5% of all BitShares :)

323
General Discussion / Re: Estimated Price of 1 Bitshare
« on: January 30, 2014, 12:17:30 am »
[…]  Not only are there drastically fewer Bitshares, […]

If you think it is important where the decimal mark is I suggest 42coin. They are quite expensive though, one trades at 250 000 USD. :)

324
I was just wondering: How did the BitTRY do the last days? Was that good tracking the real TRY?

Would it have been tracking better with 0 % interest of BitTRY? I'm not too sure myself anymore. I think the best is really a variable interest, tracking the market interest rate for that Asset.

325
General Discussion / Re: Estimated Price of 1 Bitshare
« on: January 29, 2014, 04:09:22 am »
*[…]  Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?

Ask that guy who donates 10 BTC nearly every day  :)

326
General Discussion / Re: Do BitShares need an interest rate?
« on: January 29, 2014, 04:05:01 am »
It would be a large market, but it would also allow people to hedge against changes in the interest rate and provide the market with VERY useful information as a side effect.   This is a very valuable side market that could eventually be used for doing interest rate swaps and the like.

Yeah, and since I've been preaching that there's a correlation between interest rate and fair BitAsset price I guess cross trading might be an opportunity too.

Any plans to have this ready for the first BitShares X chain? With the new +5% campaign I assume this won't happen.

Keep up the good work Dan, you're doing a great job!

327
General Discussion / Re: Do BitShares need an interest rate?
« on: January 28, 2014, 10:07:13 pm »

4) […] The way this can be achieved is by using one BitAsset as a prediction market on what the interest rate should be on another BitAsset.   

Wouldn't the interest prediction market have to be roughly the same size (in trading volume) as the market for the underlying BitAsset itself? This would bind a lot of capital just to set the interest rate. If it wasn't large enough the BitAsset holders (longs vs. shorts) would manipulate the interest rate to their advantage.

328
General Discussion / Re: Do BitShares need an interest rate?
« on: January 28, 2014, 12:08:44 pm »
If there are no borrowing costs then you eliminate a major market incentive to cover and make shorting vs simply selling equal.   We want to bias toward sellers first before shorts.
This one seems to be the gist of the matter. Can you explain why this bias is necessary?
I was wondering if somebody could go more into detail on this one. I haven't gotten any reply yet.

329
General Discussion / Re: BitShares XX
« on: January 28, 2014, 07:50:20 am »
Floating rate is not as good for adoption. It will most likely be much less than 5%. There isn't that big of a cost to lending money in a controlled and automated environment as bitshares x. 5% interests on savings is much more competitive than traditional banking systems. I imagine that at some point a floating rate will be used, but I think that 5% is a good incentive for people to store money in the bitshares bank as opposed to traditional banks given the uncertainty of associated with this emerging industry of DACs
Won't this cause everyone to want to hold BitAssets and force the price of the assets through the roof?

That's exactly what I think. IMHO the only major flaw with BitShares X at the moment.
If you get 5% on everything it will inflate the price of most BitAssets significantly - especially those where you normally don't fetch high interest (Gold, Silver, JPY etc.)

I tried to estimate by how much in the thread I posted the link to earlier.

330
General Discussion / Re: Legality of Prediction Markets and Dacs
« on: January 28, 2014, 06:00:07 am »
I agree but thats not how the us government operates. They have shut down all prediction markets other than the Iowa Electronic Market and thats only because this market is heavily regulated and is used for academic purposes. Additionally governments can shut down bitcoin. Crypto currency adoption depends upon exchanges which are centralized establishments that must work within the confines of the law.

There are so many investments around where the cover page of the brochure boldly states "Not for dissemination in the United States of America". Some people might miss out, but I don't think it would be a problem for BitShares adoption or other DACs.

Do you care about BitCoins being illegal in Thailand?
Do you think most Thai care?
Do you think this significantly hinders BitCoin dissemination in Thailand?

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