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Quote from: islandking on November 11, 2014, 05:31:53 pmQuote from: bitcoinnoisseur on November 11, 2014, 05:28:24 pmQuote from: aloha on November 11, 2014, 05:07:49 pmQuoteQUESTION: If PTS price plummeted as for all intents and purposes it is useless right now, why hasn't the BTSX price plummeted equally? If there was a merger then wouldn't both be useless and worthless now and only BTS(when it's released, based on your holdings of both PTS and BTSX, be useful and valuable?There was no merger but share drop by BTSX. PTS has plummeted as Invictus has withdrawn support and BTSX did not as Invictus will continue to develop it and support it under new name BitShares.Could you elaborate on this no merger but sharedrop with some simple details as I keep reading different things. Will there be BTS and BTSX? When BTS is released will then BTSX be far less valuable? What is the reason to hold BTSX now or in the future if it does exist along with BTS? WHen will BTS be released? etc.BTSX will become BTS so if you have 100 BTSX right now you will have 100 BTS. Nothing changes except for the name. They are just changing the name from BTSX to BTS. Hope that clears it up for you It does. TY very much
Quote from: bitcoinnoisseur on November 11, 2014, 05:28:24 pmQuote from: aloha on November 11, 2014, 05:07:49 pmQuoteQUESTION: If PTS price plummeted as for all intents and purposes it is useless right now, why hasn't the BTSX price plummeted equally? If there was a merger then wouldn't both be useless and worthless now and only BTS(when it's released, based on your holdings of both PTS and BTSX, be useful and valuable?There was no merger but share drop by BTSX. PTS has plummeted as Invictus has withdrawn support and BTSX did not as Invictus will continue to develop it and support it under new name BitShares.Could you elaborate on this no merger but sharedrop with some simple details as I keep reading different things. Will there be BTS and BTSX? When BTS is released will then BTSX be far less valuable? What is the reason to hold BTSX now or in the future if it does exist along with BTS? WHen will BTS be released? etc.BTSX will become BTS so if you have 100 BTSX right now you will have 100 BTS. Nothing changes except for the name. They are just changing the name from BTSX to BTS. Hope that clears it up for you
Quote from: aloha on November 11, 2014, 05:07:49 pmQuoteQUESTION: If PTS price plummeted as for all intents and purposes it is useless right now, why hasn't the BTSX price plummeted equally? If there was a merger then wouldn't both be useless and worthless now and only BTS(when it's released, based on your holdings of both PTS and BTSX, be useful and valuable?There was no merger but share drop by BTSX. PTS has plummeted as Invictus has withdrawn support and BTSX did not as Invictus will continue to develop it and support it under new name BitShares.Could you elaborate on this no merger but sharedrop with some simple details as I keep reading different things. Will there be BTS and BTSX? When BTS is released will then BTSX be far less valuable? What is the reason to hold BTSX now or in the future if it does exist along with BTS? WHen will BTS be released? etc.
QuoteQUESTION: If PTS price plummeted as for all intents and purposes it is useless right now, why hasn't the BTSX price plummeted equally? If there was a merger then wouldn't both be useless and worthless now and only BTS(when it's released, based on your holdings of both PTS and BTSX, be useful and valuable?There was no merger but share drop by BTSX. PTS has plummeted as Invictus has withdrawn support and BTSX did not as Invictus will continue to develop it and support it under new name BitShares.
QUESTION: If PTS price plummeted as for all intents and purposes it is useless right now, why hasn't the BTSX price plummeted equally? If there was a merger then wouldn't both be useless and worthless now and only BTS(when it's released, based on your holdings of both PTS and BTSX, be useful and valuable?
Quote from: cryptocc on November 11, 2014, 09:37:03 amQuote from: bitcoinnoisseur on November 09, 2014, 04:59:13 pmI know there was a snapshot on 11/5. I know that there will only be BTS. However when I was reading I didn't come across anything warning me that PTS price would plummet fore good and that I should sell them all either before the snapshot and buy BTSX or right after the snapshot. All I read was that I would receive BTS for the PTS in my wallet. Incorrectly and naively I assumed that PTS just wouldn't be traded anymore as it wouldn't exist. I have lost thousands by holding my PTS. Why would anyone hold them and why would anyone buy them after the snapshot? I have to say that this whole thing has become a clusterfuck. Names and shares constantly changing, DAC's existing but being abandoned and becoming worthless, airdrops, conversions and rate changes, wallet files needing to be imported or not imported to get shares etc. I have NO idea what the hell this is all about anymore nor what even the name of this thing is I'm invested in as it constantly changes. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can someone explain to me in somewhat simple terms exactly what is going on. Thank you.From an outsiders point of view, it is confusing. I run a crypto group with around 3600+ people, and I can assure you that most don't understand this, at all, so they are very wary of it. They ask me to explain it, but frankly I don't want to risk giving them some bad advice, so I tell them to just go here and figure it out for themselves. It might be simple for some traders, but compared to just buying Bitcoin, it isn't.I don't own any, and I am not even sure which one I should be buying or dropping as I have not been paying enough attention. It just appears too much like a game of Three-Card Monte. That said, I think the tech and ideas are fascinating. However, I am more concerned about the marketing and investors getting burned for not understanding it well enough. That is why I don't recommend it much, yet.Why would anyone invest/trade on something he doesn't take time to understand... if you just randomly chose things to throw money at just based on the market cap, you shouldn't be very surprised to have surprises.I agree it's really time consuming to follow what's happening here, but it's not even officially released. The merger was a correction on the direction to take, and it was based on an excellent analysis of what would happen in the future if it didn't happen. People that didn't agree with this analysis sold, hence the recent big drop in price. Now the developers and marketers can focus on a very clear product, that will be pushed in the next weeks/months. Some people (i.e. alphaBar) spread some confusion and make the message very unclear, that's sad, but it should be over soon when the leading team pushes the new unified product.
Quote from: bitcoinnoisseur on November 09, 2014, 04:59:13 pmI know there was a snapshot on 11/5. I know that there will only be BTS. However when I was reading I didn't come across anything warning me that PTS price would plummet fore good and that I should sell them all either before the snapshot and buy BTSX or right after the snapshot. All I read was that I would receive BTS for the PTS in my wallet. Incorrectly and naively I assumed that PTS just wouldn't be traded anymore as it wouldn't exist. I have lost thousands by holding my PTS. Why would anyone hold them and why would anyone buy them after the snapshot? I have to say that this whole thing has become a clusterfuck. Names and shares constantly changing, DAC's existing but being abandoned and becoming worthless, airdrops, conversions and rate changes, wallet files needing to be imported or not imported to get shares etc. I have NO idea what the hell this is all about anymore nor what even the name of this thing is I'm invested in as it constantly changes. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can someone explain to me in somewhat simple terms exactly what is going on. Thank you.From an outsiders point of view, it is confusing. I run a crypto group with around 3600+ people, and I can assure you that most don't understand this, at all, so they are very wary of it. They ask me to explain it, but frankly I don't want to risk giving them some bad advice, so I tell them to just go here and figure it out for themselves. It might be simple for some traders, but compared to just buying Bitcoin, it isn't.I don't own any, and I am not even sure which one I should be buying or dropping as I have not been paying enough attention. It just appears too much like a game of Three-Card Monte. That said, I think the tech and ideas are fascinating. However, I am more concerned about the marketing and investors getting burned for not understanding it well enough. That is why I don't recommend it much, yet.
I know there was a snapshot on 11/5. I know that there will only be BTS. However when I was reading I didn't come across anything warning me that PTS price would plummet fore good and that I should sell them all either before the snapshot and buy BTSX or right after the snapshot. All I read was that I would receive BTS for the PTS in my wallet. Incorrectly and naively I assumed that PTS just wouldn't be traded anymore as it wouldn't exist. I have lost thousands by holding my PTS. Why would anyone hold them and why would anyone buy them after the snapshot? I have to say that this whole thing has become a clusterfuck. Names and shares constantly changing, DAC's existing but being abandoned and becoming worthless, airdrops, conversions and rate changes, wallet files needing to be imported or not imported to get shares etc. I have NO idea what the hell this is all about anymore nor what even the name of this thing is I'm invested in as it constantly changes. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can someone explain to me in somewhat simple terms exactly what is going on. Thank you.
It would help having a simple reference table for the DACs, listing key data about what snapshots have occurred; when; and how those honored the social contract relative to PTS/AGS/BTSX/BTS. There are already too many threads of complexity in BitShares let alone other flavours of crypto-assets, to expect most investors to watch all the detail. Just knowing which are considered within core dev team remit and which are seen as third party would be useful.Perhaps such detail could be put into the wallet GUI? So that holders of BTS can see what is pending and what stage that is at. Anything to make the positives more visible will help.
Quote from: fuzzy on November 09, 2014, 07:47:25 pmQuote from: davidpbrown on November 09, 2014, 07:23:47 pmIt would help having a simple reference table for the DACs, listing key data about what snapshots have occurred; when; and how those honored the social contract relative to PTS/AGS/BTSX/BTS. There are already too many threads of complexity in BitShares let alone other flavours of crypto-assets, to expect most investors to watch all the detail. Just knowing which are considered within core dev team remit and which are seen as third party would be useful.Perhaps such detail could be put into the wallet GUI? So that holders of BTS can see what is pending and what stage that is at. Anything to make the positives more visible will help. Great idea. I'm for anything that makes it easier for newbies to the ecosystem and everyone else should be too imho.While we are at it, can we also add Encyclopædia Britannica to the GUI, please. Very useful for newbies and everybody else imho.
Quote from: davidpbrown on November 09, 2014, 07:23:47 pmIt would help having a simple reference table for the DACs, listing key data about what snapshots have occurred; when; and how those honored the social contract relative to PTS/AGS/BTSX/BTS. There are already too many threads of complexity in BitShares let alone other flavours of crypto-assets, to expect most investors to watch all the detail. Just knowing which are considered within core dev team remit and which are seen as third party would be useful.Perhaps such detail could be put into the wallet GUI? So that holders of BTS can see what is pending and what stage that is at. Anything to make the positives more visible will help. Great idea. I'm for anything that makes it easier for newbies to the ecosystem and everyone else should be too imho.
While we are at it, can we also add Encyclopædia Britannica to the GUI, please. Very useful for newbies and everybody else imho.
Quote from: fuzzy on November 09, 2014, 07:09:44 pmQuote from: Ander on November 09, 2014, 06:31:25 pmIts more like: Some people ABSOLUTELY INSISTED on keeping PTS alive (AlphaBar, etc). So it stayed alive.And so they will have to speculate with their time and effort in hopes of keeping it alive without any future sharedrops from I3. What is the problem with this?I dont have a problem with it. Its just that people somehow manage to be confused about every possible thing about the merger, and I wish they would just figure their shit out and realize they should be buying more Bitshares.
Quote from: Ander on November 09, 2014, 06:31:25 pmIts more like: Some people ABSOLUTELY INSISTED on keeping PTS alive (AlphaBar, etc). So it stayed alive.And so they will have to speculate with their time and effort in hopes of keeping it alive without any future sharedrops from I3. What is the problem with this?
Its more like: Some people ABSOLUTELY INSISTED on keeping PTS alive (AlphaBar, etc). So it stayed alive.
the core change is in fact simpleI3 will not honor in the future PTS or AGS and "mergered" their promises in the new BTS SuperDACso AGS and PTS are worthless if you expect more DACs from I3BUTso social consensus for using the bitshares-toolkit is still in place so as a holder of AGS or PTS you can expect a minimum allocation of each 10% if the developers want the blessing and support from our community. So in fact this "speculation" will give PTS worth.Hope now is everything clear!
Quote from: sumantso on November 09, 2014, 05:45:55 pmYour logic doesn't make sense. You thought it wouldn't have any value after the snapshot so you held in your wallet and forgot about it. So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.This was not like a snapshot for a new DAC where people were getting in and out of PTS because they knew price would spike before the snapshot and drop after it. This was a snapshot where all shares(PTS, AGS, BTSX, DNS etc.) would be combined into BTS. So how or why would any logic dictate that after this snapshot that any or all of them would still exist and be traded? They should all be worthless as they don't exist anymore. Only BTS does. BTW a gain I missed is exactly equal to a loss. Its called a lost opportunity and that opportunity was lost because only the few people truly in the know, knew exactly what was happening. I most certainly would have dumped every PTS and BTSX I had if i had even an inkling of a clue that I was supposed to. I sure as hell bet you did.
Your logic doesn't make sense. You thought it wouldn't have any value after the snapshot so you held in your wallet and forgot about it. So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.
The confusion is that we were told that PTS was being mergred into BTS which implies it won't exist anymore. Then some people got upset about this so we were told it is really a "sharedrop" to PTS rather than a "merge".
I. "DNS snapshot was on 5th november, i missed to transfer my keys to the dns-wallet, so for dns my PTS keys are now useless? and i lost my share for the dns->"new bitshares" conversion now?No, you didn't lose anything. Importing your PTS keys will give you "new bitshares" that you are eligible for via DNS.II. "Is there already a "Vote" wallet and was the snapshot already?There will be no separate Vote DAC/wallet. The features planned for Vote will be included in BTS eventually.III. "How can i see all private keys which exits in the wallet.dat, because i'm missing one btc-donation for AngelShares, which i can't verify in the blockexplorer"listaddressgroupings command in your PTS/BTC wallet console.IV. "is there an overview of what exactly is going on in the bitshare ecosphere..?"The Halloween letter people referred to here many times.
this summer
They should all be worthless as they don't exist anymore.
I most certainly would have dumped every PTS and BTSX I had if i had even an inkling of a clue that I was supposed to. I sure as hell bet you did.
Quote from: aloha on November 09, 2014, 05:29:41 pmI hope this link will help with some of your questions.https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844.0 October Newsletter - Halloween EditionI already read that and not only is the whole shares allocation confusing, it doesn't answer my main questions. Why does PTS even still exist? Why would anyone still hold them? Why would anyone still buy them? Every single person that didn't know or understand they were supposed to drop them like hot potatoes lost massive amounts of money by holding them in their wallet like they thought they were supposed to do. How does anything Bitshares related(PTS, AGS, BTSX, Music, DNS etc) still even exist and be tradeable? If a snapshot was taken and everything converted to BTS then all those shouldn't exist anymore and be worthless.
I hope this link will help with some of your questions.https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844.0 October Newsletter - Halloween Edition
So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.
How does anything Bitshares related(PTS, AGS, BTSX, Music, DNS etc) still even exist and be tradeable? If a snapshot was taken and everything converted to BTS then all those shouldn't exist anymore and be worthless.
I have lost thousands by holding my PTS.
Why would anyone hold them and why would anyone buy them after the snapshot?
I have to say that this whole thing has become a clusterfuck.