BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Permie on March 29, 2017, 03:42:25 pm
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(https://preview.ibb.co/f3P21F/WOW.png) (https://ibb.co/mUCBva)
WOW GREAT VOLUME. Now that I've grabbed your attention, you want to read more about BitShares
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Hello Everyone,
I've had a preliminary idea for a worker proposal but I would like some more community discussion to improve it.
I posted about it in the price discussion thread but was advised by @JonnyBitcoin to move to a separate thread to continue. @MarkoPaasila @BunkerChain Labs
In a nutshell;
(https://preview.ibb.co/na4S1F/bts_worker_proposal_list.png) (https://ibb.co/g3H3aa)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gnp8aa/worker_table.png) (https://ibb.co/eiNi8v)
However, people always run to where the largest noise is... We're not shooting fireworks off, nor is there any band playing. We have the quietest party on the block.
Could Reserve-Pool-Worker-funds be used to create orders on the DEX? To "make the market" with 0% spread so that the volume listed by third parties increases and we "make some noise". Coinmarketcap [has the option to] rank the exchanges (including the DEX) by the volume of bts traded in 24/hours.
Currently, the DEX ranks #3 by USD volume. $9,000 traded in 24hrs.
The #1 exchange is Poloniex, who trade $100k worth of bts per 24 hours.
To become #1 exchange (on a single given day) the DEX has to achieve another $90k volume of bitUSD traded vs bts.
(https://preview.ibb.co/m07XGF/DEX_competition_image.png) (https://ibb.co/iJ5KwF)
Moving up the ranks so fast would get the DEX on a few more people's radars.
It DOES NOT MATTER THAT PEOPLE KNOW IT'S FAKE.
EXPOSURE
EXPOSURE
EXPOSURE
Trading bitUSD:bts between 2 accounts both funded by the Reserve Pool.
It's possible to make about 5,000 trades in a 24/hr period. (1 trade per ~20seconds)
Each trade would cost about 0.5bts.
5,000 trades * 0.5bts fee per trade = 2,500bts in total fees (paid to the network) to fake volume for 24hours.
At a price of $0.0056USD per bts; 2.5k bts would cost $14 per 24/hrs
The Reserve Pool Bot would boost the EXPOSURE of the DEX, and it would need capital (a fund of bitUSD and a fund of bts) to use to repeatedly trade back and forth.
If the target is to gain an extra $90,000 worth of volume (to rank #1 exchange):
$90,000(volume) / 5000 (# of trades) = $18.
$18 traded back and forth 5,000 times would produce $90,000 worth of volume, which would show up on coinmarket cap. Raising BitShares awareness, and getting exposure.
$18 is the minimum capital, and it would cost a flat rate of $14 per day.
If the Reserve Pool Bot had $500 worth of capital, the daily "demonstratable volume" would be $500*5,000 trades = $2.5Million. 24/hr volume. CRAY
Could a worker proposal fulfill this need?
(https://preview.ibb.co/bxOC1F/bts_worker_proposal_list.png) (https://ibb.co/iYd1va)
Currently the lowest paid worker advertises on 8btc.com, costing 8,400bts per day.
The same payrate being directed to a "Reserve Pool Volume-Demonstrator Bot" would enable 5,000 trades per day, costing -2,500 bts per day. This leaves 5,900bts per day to accumulate in the capital fund.
If the worker proposal was accepted and properly/securely implemented:
Day 1: Bot has 5,900bts in capital (worth $33bitUSD). Bot pays $14 in fees to make the trades. The bot "fakes" $165k worth of volume on this day ($33*5,000)
Day 2: Bot has (5,900+5,900bts) worth $66bitUSD. Bot pays $14 in fees to make the trades.
The bot "fakes" $330k worth of volume on this day.
...Day 31: After 1 month the bot would have (5,900*31) 182kbts ($1000) accumulated in capital. The bot would spend 2,500bts (~$14) in fees on this day. The bot "fakes" $5,000,000 volume per day after 1 month of starting.
FIVE MILLION DOLLARS OF VOLUME PER DAY
QUESTIONS I WOULD LIKE ANSWERED:
#1 WHO COULD BE TRUSTED TO RUN THIS BOT?
#2 COULD THERE BE A TRUSTLESS SOLUTION?
#3 HOW MUCH "FAKE" VOLUME IS ENOUGH?
#4 HOW VALUABLE IS THIS KIND OF ADVERTISING EXPOSURE?
#5 COULD THERE BE A PROFITABLE METHOD THAT ACHIEVES THE SAME RESULTS?
COULD IT BE TRUSTLESS?
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how much money do you need?
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TO BE CLEAR: I CANNOT VOLUNTEER MYSELF FOR THIS WORK. JUST DISCUSSING IDEA FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO TAKE ON
how much money do you need?
An additional $150kUSD volume on the bitUSD:bts market would cost a worker:
$14 (2500bts) in fees per day,
and a cash fund of $30USD (5400bts) to make the trades.
A one-time -non-diminishing fund of $30 (5400bts),
plus a 31-day-supply of fees = $434 (77,500bts)
To fake $150k volume in 1 day = 7,900bts
To fake $4.5M volume in 1 month = 82,900bts
To fake $54M volume in 1 year = 917,000bts
+ ELECTRICITY COSTS TO HOST THE BOTS
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Cool idea bro. But, things like this should not be funded through worker.
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Faking volume is a bad idea in any case, IMO.
It's even worse when discussed in a public forum. Now even if we have that much real volume nobody's going to believe it.
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Faking volume is a bad idea in any case, IMO.
It's even worse when discussed in a public forum. Now even if we have that much real volume nobody's going to believe it.
Why does it matter if it's fake?
All trades are viewable on the blockchain so it's blatantly obvious.
We're not trying to trick anybody.
Just make BitShares shout a bit louder. People are then more likely to actually hear about BitShares, and hopefully do some research on how BitShares can enable and process such high volume.
It's like a public, on-chain "testnet"
This leads to potential-customers asking themselves questions like:
How can BitShares handle this much volume?
How much is someone paying in fees to fake this volume?
WOW IT'S A FLAT FEE TO TRADE! :O
Who is providing the money to fake this much volume?
WOW COOL WORKER PROPOSAL. GREAT IDEA.
Centralized exchanges fake volume all the time. They must have worked out that it's good for getting potential-customers in the door.
This idea would also increase the #bts collected in fees by the network.
A real and verfiable metric increase, indicating use of the network
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Faking volume is a bad idea in any case, IMO.
It's even worse when discussed in a public forum. Now even if we have that much real volume nobody's going to believe it.
It's not fake if real bids and offers are being filled.
Just like market making shows real market depth even though it is often done by the exchange itself.
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Cool idea bro. But, things like this should not be funded through worker.
Why not?
The worker already pays for advertising on 8btc.com
Faking volume is advertising. It raises awareness.
Are you worried about how the Cash Fund is handled? That the worker would steal the money or something?
I would strongly prefer a trustless solution.
Could the price-feed producers of bitUSD be responsible for a muti-sig Cash-Fund-Fake-Volume-Bot?
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It's too easy to smart people to hear about bitshares community spending money to create a false impression and decide not to enter the community. I will not vote for this worker. Anyone is free, of course, to fake volume on the exchange but the community isn't going to pay for it.
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It's too easy to smart people to hear about bitshares community spending money to create a false impression and decide not to enter the community. I will not vote for this worker. Anyone is free, of course, to fake volume on the exchange but the community isn't going to pay for it.
Real trades are not a false impression. To make this volume you have to put up real bids and asks that any market participants could take.
This is just another idea to create liquidity. Something bitshares needs.
It is essentially zero spread market making with very little depth.
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Faking volume is advertising. It raises awareness.
Yes, it is. It raises negative awareness for sure. Usually, people don't like to be "faked". Bitshares is unregulated exchange where everybody can do whatever they want, but please, do fake things on your own, fund them from your own pocket, and don't associate yourself with whole BTS community.
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It's too easy to smart people to hear about bitshares community spending money to create a false impression and decide not to enter the community. I will not vote for this worker. Anyone is free, of course, to fake volume on the exchange but the community isn't going to pay for it.
Real trades are not a false impression. To make this volume you have to put up real bids and asks that any market participants could take.
This is just another idea to create liquidity. Something bitshares needs.
It is essentially zero spread market making with very little depth.
You don't need a worker for this. I do create several $K volume on btsbots every day using my own funds, and everybody can do the same. I am not going to vote for such activity to be funded from BTS reserve, and any proxy who will approve this will lose my trust. Community may decide whatever they want though.
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THIS IS CHEATING
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This really isn't fake volume. Transactions are being done on the blockchain, fees paid. I suggest you change the tittle and reword the original post. BIiSaares' reserve pool is the one paying for the transactions. But this is NOT fake volume since fees are being paid and any other user can take the orders from your bots.
I think this is actually a nice idea but let's just allow people to use @alt 's bots, which, btw, were the best thing that ever happened to BitShares as it is the kickstarter the DEX needed. Let people use them, let volume grow for some months. As long as it keeps increasing no need to take money from the pool.
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This really isn't fake volume. Transactions are being done on the blockchain, fees paid. I suggest you change the tittle and reword the original post. BIiSaares' reserve pool is the one paying for the transactions. But this is NOT fake volume since fees are being paid and any other user can take the orders from your bots.
I think this is actually a nice idea but let's just allow people to use @alt 's bots, which, btw, were the best thing that ever happened to BitShares as it is the kickstarter the DEX needed. Let people use them, let volume grow for some months. As long as it keeps increasing no need to take money from the pool.
Perhaps an alternative then is to promote and encourage existing BitShares shareholders to utilise BTSBOTS.com to provide liquidity and make private profit from doing so.
But how can Shareholders do this?
@JonnyBitcoin has made a great start with this btsbots app demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVbUzbNkLpk
I may be mistaken, but I would hazard to guess that most current bts shareholders do not have a professional finance/trading background.
They understand cryptocurrency and can see it's potential to create the next world financial exchange, but may not necessarily understand the nitty gritty on how to actually use a financial exchange to trade, and make money.
I think lots of shareholders are kind of waiting for the serious traders to stumble across bitshares and start using it for themselves to make profit.
But without the early stage liquidity support the mainstream cryptotraders aren't interested. The DEX doesn't yet fulfill their needs. (Or does it?)
Once the crypto-traders are involved then progressively more mainstream players will have their interest piqued.
My prediction/opinion for the order in which players enter the bts market:
>>>>>>>>>>>>Current Shareholders who see the potential of bitshares to fulfill the huge niche that is a decentralized asset exchange (We are here)
>>>>>>>>>>>>Crypto-traders who get fed up of centralized crypto-exchanges
>>>>>>>>>>>>Recent mainstream finance university graduates who get rejected for an invest banking/stockbroker job. Internships are hard to come by for these students. BTS should/will advertise to this demographic once bts a little more mature. They can 'trade from home' and make more money than they could earn at the job
>>>>>>>>>>>>bitUSD accepted at Merchant stores thanks to BlockPay. Merchants offer discounts for payment in bitUSD due to the merchant's potential to profit by selling bitUSD for a slightly higher price on the DEX.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Retired or bored stockbrokers (Lots of money here I think). Ability to hold Gold, stocks and a basket of fiat to manage their pension without trusting a potential crook. If they think BitShares is the most secure then there is potential for a huge pile of money to flow into SmartCoins
>>>>>>>>>>>Ex-Stockbrokers who decide to set-up shop for themselves and use BitShares as their platform.
For the BitShares exchange to increase in value people have to be using it.They aren't, not in the kind of numbers one would hope to see. For the next level of player to enter the game, there needs to be a certain minimum level of liquidity for them to perform their market-needs satisfactorily.
Who knows what the minimum's are? But by discussing, promoting and incentivising ways to increase the liquidity of our Flagship Product: bitUSD.
How can bitUSD be used to make money?
Why should shareholders create bitUSD on the DEX?
How can they do it without risking their investment?
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Faking volume is a bad idea in any case, IMO.
It's even worse when discussed in a public forum. Now even if we have that much real volume nobody's going to believe it.
you can easily proof fake volume. this is a blockchain after all
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Faking volume is a bad idea in any case, IMO.
It's even worse when discussed in a public forum. Now even if we have that much real volume nobody's going to believe it.
you can easily proof fake volume. this is a blockchain after all
+5%
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Faking volume is a bad idea in any case, IMO.
It's even worse when discussed in a public forum. Now even if we have that much real volume nobody's going to believe it.
It's not fake if real bids and offers are being filled.
Just like market making shows real market depth even though it is often done by the exchange itself.
agree and to make it more clear..we still vote for new or old politician, despite we know they lie.
so fake or better lie advertising does sell cars,
dont call it fake, call it
making awareness of something thats little known..
same goal different name
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THIS IS CHEATING
really, cheating, cheating who?
nobody takes any money from ppl
the contrary
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THIS IS CHEATING
really, cheating, cheating who?
nobody takes any money from ppl
the contrary
All fees paid can be directed back to shareholders.
It's real volume.
'Faking" was a confusing word for me to use