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yeah...counterparty is really awesome...slower than bitcoin...whenever I tried it I got asleep in front of my monitor..lol
Yup indeed his philosophy is very different... "What we need is an alternative, something cheap, plentiful and fast. Turns out there are quite a few options out there that meet this need, but my favorite by far is Dogecoin.""LTBCOIN is not moving to Doge... yet... But as I've always said, LTB is focused on solutions in the new digital economy more than being a ra-ra we're all going to be rich about Bitcoin. If there is an obviously better solution to accomplish a given task, we'll use it."Adam B. Levine
Quote from: xeroc on September 29, 2014, 07:20:30 pmQuote from: MeTHoDx on September 29, 2014, 06:48:20 pmWhy did AdamBLevine leave the community?He left for Dogeparty http://www.dogeparty.io/#dp-team.. not kiddingMuch stupid. Very wow.
Quote from: MeTHoDx on September 29, 2014, 06:48:20 pmWhy did AdamBLevine leave the community?He left for Dogeparty http://www.dogeparty.io/#dp-team.. not kidding
Why did AdamBLevine leave the community?
I agree with the post from the blog that being humble and making not too bold claims comes across as more trustworthy!In your analysis the following didn't make sense to me: Quoteand in order to pay them back the shorts have to sell their collateralThe collateral (BTSX) is held by the system in order to be able to guarantee the long position that it can be paid out any time. Not selling of BTSX is necessary. No?
and in order to pay them back the shorts have to sell their collateral
Increased exposure relative to WHAT? Owning BitUSD you have less exposure, Shorting BitUSD you have more exposure than just holding BTSX. It is really a very simple trading of risks/rewards between consenting parties.
Quote from: bytemaster on August 21, 2014, 05:26:34 pmIf there is not enough liquidity it is also possible for the network to "print" BTSX necessary to make great deals relative to a trusted feed. IE: if BitUSD bids are over 10% above the feed, print BTSX to short BitUSD and if it is under the feed by 10%, cover the short. Simply knowing there is unlimited sell pressure at 10%+ and a large cover at -10% could also enhance the system. The benefit of this "system trading" is that the profits from shorting high and covering low go to the shareholders. let's do it!
If there is not enough liquidity it is also possible for the network to "print" BTSX necessary to make great deals relative to a trusted feed. IE: if BitUSD bids are over 10% above the feed, print BTSX to short BitUSD and if it is under the feed by 10%, cover the short. Simply knowing there is unlimited sell pressure at 10%+ and a large cover at -10% could also enhance the system. The benefit of this "system trading" is that the profits from shorting high and covering low go to the shareholders.
Quote from: AdamBLevine on August 21, 2014, 02:52:24 pmTotally agree he should be engaged with and educated, but I think your final comment might be more indicative of trouble than the good you seem to be implying from it. Preston works professionally in the non-crypto comparable industry to what Bitshares X hopes to accomplish (derivatives). Because of that, he has context with which to look at Bitshares X and say "Oh, it's the same from conventional tools in this way and different in these ways and this is what that means" which I'm willing to bet most of the "bloggers" do not. When you speak to these "bloggers" how many of them actually understand how Bitassets work, or even think they do vs. how many are just trusting that Dan knows what he's talking about and think it sounds really neat.Do you understand how Bitassets work well enough to respond to this article?I agree with your point and think its a valid one. With that said, I've responded to each of the items from the article and believe the author is jumps to many conclusions out of ignorance of how the system functions leading to mostly unsubstantiated conclusions. For instance, in most of his 'analogous' examples he treats trades as if they're traditional derivative contracts rather than being balance sheet neutral. He's correct about increased exposure of the underlying (BTSX) but the exact same risks exist in real world markets so it's a moot point.. not to mention that he lacks adequate knowledge as to what extent the system is capable of covering in such extreme events. If increased exposure to BTSX equity is his only real criticism (which seems to be the case) then I'm confident BTSX will do quite well moving forward.
Totally agree he should be engaged with and educated, but I think your final comment might be more indicative of trouble than the good you seem to be implying from it. Preston works professionally in the non-crypto comparable industry to what Bitshares X hopes to accomplish (derivatives). Because of that, he has context with which to look at Bitshares X and say "Oh, it's the same from conventional tools in this way and different in these ways and this is what that means" which I'm willing to bet most of the "bloggers" do not. When you speak to these "bloggers" how many of them actually understand how Bitassets work, or even think they do vs. how many are just trusting that Dan knows what he's talking about and think it sounds really neat.Do you understand how Bitassets work well enough to respond to this article?
Quote from: MktDirector on August 20, 2014, 03:20:21 pmWhat's interesting is this guy doesn't allow comments on his blog post. Guess he doesn't want to enter the arena of ideas and have his challenged. But he does have a place to email him directly. I suggest we win him over, or attempt to rather than fight him. His opinion is based on a lot of ignorance about BitShares, but it's good practice for all of us to win over our worst critics, or attempt to, even if we dont. What's amazing to me is that with as many people as we meet and talk to at all the events we attend, rarely do we find anyone who has more than one or two objections...so bloggers like this are certainly in the minority..... BTotally agree he should be engaged with and educated, but I think your final comment might be more indicative of trouble than the good you seem to be implying from it. Preston works professionally in the non-crypto comparable industry to what Bitshares X hopes to accomplish (derivatives). Because of that, he has context with which to look at Bitshares X and say "Oh, it's the same from conventional tools in this way and different in these ways and this is what that means" which I'm willing to bet most of the "bloggers" do not. When you speak to these "bloggers" how many of them actually understand how Bitassets work, or even think they do vs. how many are just trusting that Dan knows what he's talking about and think it sounds really neat.Do you understand how Bitassets work well enough to respond to this article?
What's interesting is this guy doesn't allow comments on his blog post. Guess he doesn't want to enter the arena of ideas and have his challenged. But he does have a place to email him directly. I suggest we win him over, or attempt to rather than fight him. His opinion is based on a lot of ignorance about BitShares, but it's good practice for all of us to win over our worst critics, or attempt to, even if we dont. What's amazing to me is that with as many people as we meet and talk to at all the events we attend, rarely do we find anyone who has more than one or two objections...so bloggers like this are certainly in the minority..... B
Quote from: tonyk on August 19, 2014, 10:15:49 pmQuote from: 38PTSWarrior on August 19, 2014, 09:33:44 pmPreston Byrne is on the Let's talk bitcoin show today: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholder The only element of surprise here, for me at least, is that Preston Byrne is actual person and not pseudonym of AdamBL's.
Quote from: 38PTSWarrior on August 19, 2014, 09:33:44 pmPreston Byrne is on the Let's talk bitcoin show today: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholder The only element of surprise here, for me at least, is that Preston Byrne is actual person and not pseudonym of AdamBL's.
Preston Byrne is on the Let's talk bitcoin show today: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-137-eye-of-the-beholder
From the article I learned that he knows the 2 sides of the balance sheet.The reason why each item goes on this particular side, is a concept above his pay grade...
By way of explanation, this article was posted by a founder of Eris Industries:http://www.linkedin.com/company/eris-industries?trk=ppro_cprof"Eris Industries designs and builds distributed autonomous organisations (DAOs) and smart contract solutions for corporate and institutional applications using advanced technology to reduce client costs with a specialization in the finance, insurance, and construction sectors.""Eris Industries was founded by Casey Kuhlman, Dennis McKinnon and Preston Byrne after its founders designed, built, and deployed the world's first useable DAO platform."This platform reportedly runs on .... Ethereum:http://www.coinfeed.net/news/lifestyle/bitcoin-millionaire-announces-the-winner-of-his-100k-bounty.html
Can someone on your team who isn't you take the time to respond to the article explaining why he's wrong? I'm sure my understanding as well as his would benefit from a meaningful and point by point response to this article.
I’m an associate lawyer with Norton Rose Fulbright’s London office, a fellow of the Adam Smith Institute, and a co-founder of Project Ðouglas and Eris Industries.My primary practice (securitisation) consists mainly of advising on a range of asset-backed transactions including CMBS, RMBS, covered bonds, esoteric ABS such as utilities and transport, and credit support/risk transfer arrangements including single-tranche and portfolio guarantees. The securitisation team regularly acts for a broad cross-section of public and private sector industry participants, including issuers, trustees, borrowers, guarantors and investors.As to cryptocurrency and decentralised computing (crypto), I’m currently focusing on industrial uses for blockchains – particularly commercial applications for smart contracts/DAOs. I consult regularly with established industrial enterprises, developers and entrepreneurs in the space, both within my practice and independently. If you’re in the field and have a business or legal query, please feel free to get in touch – my contact details are at the bottom of this page. I’d be happy to hear from you.Uniquely among global law firms, Norton Rose Fulbright has an active international crypto practice, and the firm represents a range of clients in the space. We regularly advise on domestic or cross-border business issues encountered in the industry, whether in relation to (i) tax, (ii) insolvency, (iii) corporate formation and governance, (iv) intellectual property, (v) crowdfunding, payment services or other financial regulation, (vi) KYC and AML, (vii) litigation, (viii) structuring and securities, or (ix) venture capital financing from the firm’s network of offices in over 50 cities worldwide.As to the ASI, my current interests include housing reform and alternative finance – including, naturally, cryptocurrency, on which I regularly blog, give talks or provide press comment.All views expressed on this website are solely my own. They do not represent the views of Norton Rose Fulbright or the Adam Smith Institute.
My primary practice (securitisation) consists mainly of advising on a range of asset-backed transactions including CMBS, RMBS, covered bonds, esoteric ABS such as utilities and transport, and credit support/risk transfer arrangements including single-tranche and portfolio guarantees. The securitisation team regularly acts for a broad cross-section of public and private sector industry participants, including issuers, trustees, borrowers, guarantors and investors.
The farm I am betting is the farm I could buy if I sold out today
Quote from: tonyk on August 19, 2014, 07:29:07 pmQuote from: AdamBLevine on August 19, 2014, 07:15:12 pm I'm pretty sure he thinks he understands it. Did you not get that impression?Operative word 'thinks'(as in believes), which apparently gives him the right to put his inner anger in semi-decent piece of writing.And No, I do not find any value in reputing every word somebody decides to put out there, especially if the main focus of the author is to show us how great he is in proving his own statements.Do you understand Bitassets?
Quote from: AdamBLevine on August 19, 2014, 07:15:12 pm I'm pretty sure he thinks he understands it. Did you not get that impression?Operative word 'thinks'(as in believes), which apparently gives him the right to put his inner anger in semi-decent piece of writing.And No, I do not find any value in reputing every word somebody decides to put out there, especially if the main focus of the author is to show us how great he is in proving his own statements.
I'm pretty sure he thinks he understands it. Did you not get that impression?
I am as tech-not-savi as you are. Sorry, not meant as an insult, if you have hi esteem in your abilities in that field.
@AdamBL - I am ready to take you bet on which of the 2 will work - bitUSD or LTBcoin.
Quote from: bytemaster on August 19, 2014, 07:52:15 pmHowever, I am betting the farm that it will work Speaking of betting:@BM, Stan needs to post a picture of the farm otherwise I just take your bet against all the bitUSD I currently own! @AdamBL - I am ready to take you bet on which of the 2 will work - bitUSD or LTBcoin.
However, I am betting the farm that it will work
Quote from: tonyk on August 19, 2014, 07:41:43 pmQuote from: AdamBLevine on August 19, 2014, 07:37:39 pmQuote from: tonyk on August 19, 2014, 07:29:07 pmQuote from: AdamBLevine on August 19, 2014, 07:15:12 pm I'm pretty sure he thinks he understands it. Did you not get that impression?Operative word 'thinks'(as in believes), which apparently gives him the right to put his inner anger in semi-decent piece of writing.And No, I do not find any value in reputing every word somebody decides to put out there, especially if the main focus of the author is to show us how great he is in proving his own statements.Do you understand Bitassets?Mainly. I am as tech-not-savi as you are. Sorry, not meant as an insult, if you have hi esteem in your abilities in that field.Yeah see this is the issue, I don't understand why it will work I understand why it is supposed to work (grossly simplified: because people won't bet against reality since they can't control which way everybody else bets so unless the majority of the market colludes against itself the bitasset should track the real asset) but I don't see why this would work. My interest in Protoshares was that it gave me something else, the what-was-the-something-else never really mattered.
Quote from: AdamBLevine on August 19, 2014, 07:37:39 pmQuote from: tonyk on August 19, 2014, 07:29:07 pmQuote from: AdamBLevine on August 19, 2014, 07:15:12 pm I'm pretty sure he thinks he understands it. Did you not get that impression?Operative word 'thinks'(as in believes), which apparently gives him the right to put his inner anger in semi-decent piece of writing.And No, I do not find any value in reputing every word somebody decides to put out there, especially if the main focus of the author is to show us how great he is in proving his own statements.Do you understand Bitassets?Mainly. I am as tech-not-savi as you are. Sorry, not meant as an insult, if you have hi esteem in your abilities in that field.
I do not think anybody has ever said IT WOULD work. The best I have ever heard this SHOULD work because...
Quote from: bytemaster on August 19, 2014, 07:24:49 pmQuotecontinue to think your major innovative contribution is Protoshares which was the first token that gave people another token. I don't know whether I should be offended by that or not Given TITAN + DPOS + RoboHash + BitAssets... Apparently Adam thinks PTS is more innovative than TITAN or DPOS
Quotecontinue to think your major innovative contribution is Protoshares which was the first token that gave people another token. I don't know whether I should be offended by that or not Given TITAN + DPOS + RoboHash + BitAssets...
continue to think your major innovative contribution is Protoshares which was the first token that gave people another token.
Quote from: AdamBLevine on August 19, 2014, 07:15:12 pmQuote from: tonyk on August 19, 2014, 07:12:27 pmQuote from: AdamBLevine on August 19, 2014, 07:08:06 pmRead this thread (including that article) from the perspective of someone new to Bitshares and you'll see a community that spends way more time making fun of or insulting the author but either doesn't know or can't make a single refutation of... anything... except by bytemaster saying that he makes different assumptions. His concerns may very well be uninformed, but if that's the case it seems all the more urgent to explain why he is wrong both for his knowledge and the betterment of the communities understanding of the highly complicated mechanisms at work behind market created bitassets. Some humility and due-dilligence might also be in order given the tech he's questioning and you're defending are still totally unproven to work even as we assume they will.Do you find it a good practice to first write an article and then ask for input on things you do not understand?Given he extensively cited Bytemaster, linked to the bitshares whitepaper and seemed to have a better understanding of Bitassets than about 99% of people I know in Bitcoin, I'm pretty sure he thinks he understands it. Did you not get that impression?Some of his quotes were not cited and are wrong (or out of context). It is true that education needs to be improved.
Quote from: tonyk on August 19, 2014, 07:12:27 pmQuote from: AdamBLevine on August 19, 2014, 07:08:06 pmRead this thread (including that article) from the perspective of someone new to Bitshares and you'll see a community that spends way more time making fun of or insulting the author but either doesn't know or can't make a single refutation of... anything... except by bytemaster saying that he makes different assumptions. His concerns may very well be uninformed, but if that's the case it seems all the more urgent to explain why he is wrong both for his knowledge and the betterment of the communities understanding of the highly complicated mechanisms at work behind market created bitassets. Some humility and due-dilligence might also be in order given the tech he's questioning and you're defending are still totally unproven to work even as we assume they will.Do you find it a good practice to first write an article and then ask for input on things you do not understand?Given he extensively cited Bytemaster, linked to the bitshares whitepaper and seemed to have a better understanding of Bitassets than about 99% of people I know in Bitcoin, I'm pretty sure he thinks he understands it. Did you not get that impression?
Quote from: AdamBLevine on August 19, 2014, 07:08:06 pmRead this thread (including that article) from the perspective of someone new to Bitshares and you'll see a community that spends way more time making fun of or insulting the author but either doesn't know or can't make a single refutation of... anything... except by bytemaster saying that he makes different assumptions. His concerns may very well be uninformed, but if that's the case it seems all the more urgent to explain why he is wrong both for his knowledge and the betterment of the communities understanding of the highly complicated mechanisms at work behind market created bitassets. Some humility and due-dilligence might also be in order given the tech he's questioning and you're defending are still totally unproven to work even as we assume they will.Do you find it a good practice to first write an article and then ask for input on things you do not understand?
Read this thread (including that article) from the perspective of someone new to Bitshares and you'll see a community that spends way more time making fun of or insulting the author but either doesn't know or can't make a single refutation of... anything... except by bytemaster saying that he makes different assumptions. His concerns may very well be uninformed, but if that's the case it seems all the more urgent to explain why he is wrong both for his knowledge and the betterment of the communities understanding of the highly complicated mechanisms at work behind market created bitassets. Some humility and due-dilligence might also be in order given the tech he's questioning and you're defending are still totally unproven to work even as we assume they will.
The blog post was not very informed of course. But I think it is provoked by too steep claims (With an effective yield on BitUSD of 20% per year you must compare it against other USD investments, such as lending it to the bank at 3% per year). People find things suspicious that are too good to be true. And that is a healthy reaction in almost all cases. We can learn something from it too.
ttp://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/17/dont-walk-away-run/Perhaps some food for thought. I'll leave it up to you guys to read and begin the conversation though---school time for me
it has become imperative that we create bitMarmot as soon as possible, and peg it to the actual real world value of a live marmot.
It will be easier to just peg the author to bitMoron... At least we know that this peg will hold
Quote from: merockstar on August 19, 2014, 06:42:17 amit has become imperative that we create bitMarmot as soon as possible, and peg it to the actual real world value of a live marmot.It will be easier to just peg the author to bitMoron... At least we know that this peg will hold
I thought the article was quite entertaining... it has been a while since I read such a scathing review that said more about the author than about BTS. It was like someone trying to argue that Bitcoin is "impossible" simply because there is nothing behind it. To understand BitShares and BitAssets all you need to know are some very fundamental facts:
I do not know why but this reminds me of TV segment on my local TV, about a café accepting bitcoins.I will never forget one of the viewer's texts, expressing his/her opinion:"Bitcoin is great, but what if it gets hacked? You then have nothing, because there is nothing behind it"
I thought the article was quite entertaining... it has been a while since I read such a scathing review that said more about the author than about BTS. It was like someone trying to argue that Bitcoin is "impossible" simply because there is nothing behind it. To understand BitShares and BitAssets all you need to know are some very fundamental facts:1) A digital asset has a non-0 value. (Proven by 300+ alts with non-0 values)2) A collateralized loan is a safe loan if the collateral is relatively liquid and stable3) Prediction Markets Work.Someone attempting to argue against those facts has a very large uphill battle to fight. The straw man arguments and inaccuracies reveal that he doesn't have enough information to make a rational evaluation of the system and thus even if there were something wrong you cannot trust him to know what it was.
The more people who read the article, the more will join here because they would not want to hang out with the writer. Colors, pictures, writing style, as bad as the structure, red links.. It's an angry mans article.