BitShares Forum
Other => Graveyard => BitShares PTS => Topic started by: bytemaster on November 22, 2013, 04:47:22 pm
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My sources report that a GPU miner has been found in the wild and will soon make an appearance in a new pool. I thought I would start a thread to discuss the implications. According to my sources a mid-range GPU is able to crank out about 500 HPM which is in line with high end CPUs.
I find this result very encouraging because the midrange GPU is only 3 to 4x faster than the mid range CPU and about on par with the high-end CPU mining we have seen.
A new pool will be forming that will compete with y pool which will be good for the community. Now that you all know it is possible I suggest that someone move quickly to compete before this GPU miner takes over like y pool.
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A 5870 runs at 420 cpm so a 7950 should run at around 700-800 cpm i guess, which turns a 4 gpu 7950 rig into a 2800-3200 cpm beast beating every "high end" cpu out there easily.
You need 9 32 core c3 amazon instances to get that number, running at roughly 4.5$ per hour, a quad 7950 rig draws around 1.2 KW -> even in sucky Germany lousy 30 Cent per hour. Around the world even below 10.
Come again why this is good? This makes PTS more profitable than LTC and you don't want big farms to switch...this might push out cpus pretty quickly, making it a bit more specialised.
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A 5870 runs at 420 cpm so a 7950 should run at around 700-800 cpm i guess, which turns a 4 gpu 7950 rig into a 2800-3200 cpm beast beating every "high end" cpu out there easily.
You need 9 32 core c3 amazon instances to get that number, running at roughly 4.5$ per hour, a quad 7950 rig draws around 1.2 KW -> even in sucky Germany lousy 30 Cent per hour. Around the world even below 10.
Come again why this is good? This makes PTS more profitable than LTC and you don't want big farms to switch...
Actually, if the big LTC farms were to switch then we would pull in a large number of LTC users who would learn about us. Despite having that much hash power, they would still end up with less than 25% of the money supply because most of it was already mined by CPUs. It would end the profiting of botnets and over all be better.
The key thing is that GPU is not centralizing as everyone has a GPU and just like some people have CPUs that can only do 50 HPM while others have CPUs that can do 500 HPM, you will still see the same division once GPU mining is the norm.
The point is that early adopters have had a chance to CPU mine and should consider buying rather than mining if they really want to see a return on their investment. We had to switch from a plan that called for mining to one where we bought it off of the market simply because even with 100 computers the amount that we could mine would be insignificant compared to selling the computers and buying the coin.
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there will still be a new gap with gpu.
I use nvidia for gaming, and they're garbage for mining, afaik.
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Let's see where this goes, i fear that it will turn to "just another gpu coin" cpu coins are in fact kinda special...
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If there is a gpu miner, PTS will be mined super fast way before the 2 years are reached and there's only 2 million PTS.
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Difficulty is still increasing and rewards falling. The next million will take a lot longer to mine.
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Difficulty is still increasing and rewards falling. The next million will take a lot longer to mine.
True but diff time has ben undercut by factor 4 so far so we are done in roughly 6-8 month if this continues ^^
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Difficulty is still increasing and rewards falling. The next million will take a lot longer to mine.
True but diff time has ben undercut by factor 4 so far so we are done in roughly 6-8 month if this continues ^^
So? That should be positive. It is just like Monopoly, the game. When all resources are taken out there will be higher bids on the resources. It is only positive, imo.
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Difficulty is still increasing and rewards falling. The next million will take a lot longer to mine.
True but diff time has ben undercut by factor 4 so far so we are done in roughly 6-8 month if this continues ^^
So? That should be positive. It is just like Monopoly, the game. When all resources are taken out there will be higher bids on the resources. It is only positive, imo.
But once a coin is all mined out, the only incentive to mine is for the transaction fees, which won't provide anywhere near as much income for miners as blocks do
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Difficulty is still increasing and rewards falling. The next million will take a lot longer to mine.
True but diff time has ben undercut by factor 4 so far so we are done in roughly 6-8 month if this continues ^^
So? That should be positive. It is just like Monopoly, the game. When all resources are taken out there will be higher bids on the resources. It is only positive, imo.
But once a coin is all mined out, the only incentive to mine is for the transaction fees, which won't provide anywhere near as much income for miners as blocks do
Then we would need to create a DAC for keeping transactions up. Simple as that.
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Does this mean someone won the $5000 prize for proving you wrong?
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Does this mean someone won the $5000 prize for proving you wrong?
It is already paid http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=22.0
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Tell your sources to open source the gpu miner for the good of all of us currently mining. Thanks.
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Tell your sources to open source the gpu miner for the good of all of us currently mining. Thanks.
I just shutdown my CPU mining operation. Will wait for the GPU miner if there is really one.
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Aw. Now I wish I had some GPU boxes.
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Aw. Now I wish I had some GPU boxes.
And I wish I had a GPU miner 8)
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My sources report that a GPU miner has been found in the wild and will soon make an appearance in a new pool. I thought I would start a thread to discuss the implications. According to my sources a mid-range GPU is able to crank out about 500 HPM which is in line with high end CPUs.
I find this result very encouraging because the midrange GPU is only 3 to 4x faster than the mid range CPU and about on par with the high-end CPU mining we have seen.
A new pool will be forming that will compete with y pool which will be good for the community. Now that you all know it is possible I suggest that someone move quickly to compete before this GPU miner takes over like y pool.
Bottlenecks if I try to CPU and GPU mine at the same time?
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My sources report that a GPU miner has been found in the wild and will soon make an appearance in a new pool. I thought I would start a thread to discuss the implications. According to my sources a mid-range GPU is able to crank out about 500 HPM which is in line with high end CPUs.
I find this result very encouraging because the midrange GPU is only 3 to 4x faster than the mid range CPU and about on par with the high-end CPU mining we have seen.
A new pool will be forming that will compete with y pool which will be good for the community. Now that you all know it is possible I suggest that someone move quickly to compete before this GPU miner takes over like y pool.
Bottlenecks if I try to CPU and GPU mine at the same time?
I don't know. I do not know the individual who has this algorithm or whether they intend to open source it.
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Maybe the wanna milk the cow before they release it. I would've done that lol.
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But that person should need a powerfull GPU mining rig..., but doing that will increase the difficulty like crazy..
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One rig is insignificant. Thousands would make a small impact.
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So no one has any idea who made it or if it's actually there/where it is?
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know if it was based on gigawatts' hack bytemaster?
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One rig is insignificant. Thousands would make a small impact. ??????????
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i raise you a farm, 700 x 7950
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One rig is insignificant. Thousands would make a small impact. ??????????
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i raise you a farm, 700 x 7950
Exactly, and there are many farms out there of this size, just look at some of the top users on LTC pools.
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One rig is insignificant. Thousands would make a small impact. ??????????
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i raise you a farm, 700 x 7950
Exactly, and there are many farms out there of this size, just look at some of the top users on LTC pools.
I mean, he will have to release a pool before all of those farms come in to play. If he only has one farm with 1000 nodes, I know of larger farms of CPU nodes.
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At the rate I'm going with CPU mining and the difficulty increases, I won't make 10PTS before the Founders ID deadline. Hope to get on this GPU mining as soon as it becomes available so I can get one of these IDs, and hopefully make more to fund my LTC investment.
I regret not looking into PTS at the beginning of the month, thought it was just another alt currency...
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One rig is insignificant. Thousands would make a small impact. ??????????
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i raise you a farm, 700 x 7950
Exactly, and there are many farms out there of this size, just look at some of the top users on LTC pools.
I mean, he will have to release a pool before all of those farms come in to play. If he only has one farm with 1000 nodes, I know of larger farms of CPU nodes.
We are talking GPU farms here. Which as you stated can achieve x4-x5 the hash rate of CPUs. What happened to Protoshares being CPU only? Isnt that one of the main marketable terms you are throwing around?
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Decentralization was the goal.... GPU resistance was what we were attempting. The value does not come from being a CPU coin it comes from the social contract to honor ProtoShares in the genesis block of future DACs.
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Decentralization... not everyone can have a GPU farm.. but everyone at least have a cpu.
Some people have 10000+ CPU and they are FREE (botnet), but if you have GPU farm, you pay money for it. And there NO GPU farms with 10000+ cards. GPU mining is more decentralized and fair.
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Decentralization... not everyone can have a GPU farm.. but everyone at least have a cpu.
Some people have 10000+ CPU and they are FREE (botnet), but if you have GPU farm, you pay money for it. And there NO GPU farms with 10000+ cards. GPU mining is more decentralized and fair.
There are still many botnets that mine bitcoin through GPU mining? Look it up... They are hard to stop
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Who was the first, he and the King!
http://do not purchase from satoshibox.com/529083184c347b7b360041a8
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Decentralization... not everyone can have a GPU farm.. but everyone at least have a cpu.
Some people have 10000+ CPU and they are FREE (botnet), but if you have GPU farm, you pay money for it. And there NO GPU farms with 10000+ cards. GPU mining is more decentralized and fair.
There are still many botnets that mine bitcoin through GPU mining? Look it up... They are hard to stop
Yea, but there is no serious botnets (large power), that mining scrypt. GPU botnet is much much harder to receive than CPU.
P.S. GPU mining is the best choice for coin.
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Who was the first, he and the King!
http://do not purchase from satoshibox.com/529083184c347b7b360041a8
SCAM!!!!
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Who was the first, he and the King!
http://do not purchase from satoshibox.com/529083184c347b7b360041a8
SCAM!!!!
>:(
Please, fill a report on the Scam Accusations board:
http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=23
Use this format to report:
http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=660.0
Thank you and sorry for your loss if you have been scammed
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Do Not Purchase Anything From do not purchase from satoshibox !
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Hi, I think the Invictus Team is the most aware :P
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So how about some actually useful information regrading the GPU miner then?
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So how about some actually useful information regrading the GPU miner then?
I don't have any information other than the algorithm I would implement given the time:
Generate 512 MB of birthdays (512 Hashes) in parallel
Use the GPU to sort them
Use the GPU to find collisions
Someone who wants an open source GPU miner could easily pay to have one developed for them and it would cost about $10,000 or perhaps less. Considering what people are paying Amazon for cloud computing, it only makes sense that someone would develop this.
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So how about some actually useful information regrading the GPU miner then?
This ^
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So how about some actually useful information regrading the GPU miner then?
I don't have any information other than the algorithm I would implement given the time:
Generate 512 MB of birthdays (512 Hashes) in parallel
Use the GPU to sort them
Use the GPU to find collisions
Someone who wants an open source GPU miner could easily pay to have one developed for them and it would cost about $10,000 or perhaps less. Considering what people are paying Amazon for cloud computing, it only makes sense that someone would develop this.
I have implemented a GPU miner, and this algo (with bitonic parallel sorting which is considered best for the task) yields just 160hpm on 7870 at best. There are better ways, currently I can squeeze >500hpm out of the card at stock clocks.
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So how about some actually useful information regrading the GPU miner then?
I don't have any information other than the algorithm I would implement given the time:
Generate 512 MB of birthdays (512 Hashes) in parallel
Use the GPU to sort them
Use the GPU to find collisions
Someone who wants an open source GPU miner could easily pay to have one developed for them and it would cost about $10,000 or perhaps less. Considering what people are paying Amazon for cloud computing, it only makes sense that someone would develop this.
I have implemented a GPU miner, and this algo (with bitonic parallel sorting which is considered best for the task) yields just 160hpm on 7870 at best. There are better ways, currently I can squeeze >500hpm out of the card at stock clocks.
Thank you for sharing. So with an optimized algorithm you can get about a 3x gain from the GPU vs a CPU as many CPUs are getting 160 HPM. Will you share your algorithm?
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So how about some actually useful information regrading the GPU miner then?
I don't have any information other than the algorithm I would implement given the time:
Generate 512 MB of birthdays (512 Hashes) in parallel
Use the GPU to sort them
Use the GPU to find collisions
Someone who wants an open source GPU miner could easily pay to have one developed for them and it would cost about $10,000 or perhaps less. Considering what people are paying Amazon for cloud computing, it only makes sense that someone would develop this.
I have implemented a GPU miner, and this algo (with bitonic parallel sorting which is considered best for the task) yields just 160hpm on 7870 at best. There are better ways, currently I can squeeze >500hpm out of the card at stock clocks.
Thank you for sharing. So with an optimized algorithm you can get about a 3x gain from the GPU vs a CPU as many CPUs are getting 160 HPM. Will you share your algorithm?
Just a hashtable, fast and dirty in a sense that it may skip valid collisions.
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So how about some actually useful information regrading the GPU miner then?
I don't have any information other than the algorithm I would implement given the time:
Generate 512 MB of birthdays (512 Hashes) in parallel
Use the GPU to sort them
Use the GPU to find collisions
Someone who wants an open source GPU miner could easily pay to have one developed for them and it would cost about $10,000 or perhaps less. Considering what people are paying Amazon for cloud computing, it only makes sense that someone would develop this.
I have implemented a GPU miner, and this algo (with bitonic parallel sorting which is considered best for the task) yields just 160hpm on 7870 at best. There are better ways, currently I can squeeze >500hpm out of the card at stock clocks.
Thank you for sharing. So with an optimized algorithm you can get about a 3x gain from the GPU vs a CPU as many CPUs are getting 160 HPM. Will you share your algorithm?
Just a hashtable, fast and dirty in a sense that it may skip valid collisions.
So if you accept losses due to race conditions then you gain on average. Sounds like how I optimized my CPU miner.
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So how about some actually useful information regrading the GPU miner then?
I don't have any information other than the algorithm I would implement given the time:
Generate 512 MB of birthdays (512 Hashes) in parallel
Use the GPU to sort them
Use the GPU to find collisions
Someone who wants an open source GPU miner could easily pay to have one developed for them and it would cost about $10,000 or perhaps less. Considering what people are paying Amazon for cloud computing, it only makes sense that someone would develop this.
I have implemented a GPU miner, and this algo (with bitonic parallel sorting which is considered best for the task) yields just 160hpm on 7870 at best. There are better ways, currently I can squeeze >500hpm out of the card at stock clocks.
Thank you for sharing. So with an optimized algorithm you can get about a 3x gain from the GPU vs a CPU as many CPUs are getting 160 HPM. Will you share your algorithm?
Just a hashtable, fast and dirty in a sense that it may skip valid collisions.
So if you accept losses due to race conditions then you gain on average. Sounds like how I optimized my CPU miner.
Curiously, the more you are willing to lose, the more you gain. HPM was increasing as I went from full sort to cuckoo hashtable to plain synchronized hashtable to unsynchronised one. And then the same with worsening the hash function and reducing the table size.
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By the way, looks like there is currently no bounty for GPU miner implementation, so anyone interested in bargaining for it please PM. Just keep in mind it is not a turnkey thing, python/pyopencl and very basic network.
EDIT: sold exclusively.
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So you're miner writtein in pyopencl? Any plans to opensource it?
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Call it nitpicking, but it is written in Python using pyopencl :) My plan is to try to get some reward for the work first. Mining is apparently not an option anymore (not with my 2 noisy 7870s), so I am selling the miner. The buyer, if there will be one, can opensource it of course at his discretion.
EDIT: sold exclusively.
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Call it nitpicking, but it is written in Python using pyopencl :) My plan is to try to get some reward for the work first. Mining is apparently not an option anymore (not with my 2 noisy 7870s), so I am selling the miner. The buyer, if there will be one, can opensource it of course at his discretion.
PM me with a price.
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Python is significantly slower than C. Buyer beware. Personally i would wait for a C implementation than buy a python one.
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Python is significantly slower than C. Buyer beware. Personally i would wait for a C implementation than buy a python one.
Sorry, but so what? You do not need ultra performance to send 10-20 packets of data/sec over network :) Most pools are running python, for that matter.
Anyway, sold.
EDIT: sold exclusively.
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Python is significantly slower than C. Buyer beware. Personally i would wait for a C implementation than buy a python one.
Sorry, but so what? You do not need ultra performance to send 10-20 packets of data/sec over network :) Most pools are running python, for that matter.
Anyway, sold.
Price? )))
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Python is significantly slower than C. Buyer beware. Personally i would wait for a C implementation than buy a python one.
Sorry, but so what? You do not need ultra performance to send 10-20 packets of data/sec over network :) Most pools are running python, for that matter.
Anyway, sold.
Price? )))
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Python is significantly slower than C. Buyer beware. Personally i would wait for a C implementation than buy a python one.
Sorry, but so what? You do not need ultra performance to send 10-20 packets of data/sec over network :) Most pools are running python, for that matter.
Anyway, sold.
EDIT: sold exclusively.
Right, and i should take whatever a salesman says at face value too. There's a reason that all decent miners are written in C, and it certainly can't be hand-waved away by some silly argument about network performance.
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huh? now was any of that real? can we see some vid of it working at least?
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Python is significantly slower than C. Buyer beware. Personally i would wait for a C implementation than buy a python one.
Sorry, but so what? You do not need ultra performance to send 10-20 packets of data/sec over network :) Most pools are running python, for that matter.
Anyway, sold.
EDIT: sold exclusively.
Right, and i should take whatever a salesman says at face value too. There's a reason that all decent miners are written in C, and it certainly can't be hand-waved away by some silly argument about network performance.
Not selling anymore, but still. There are multiple reasons for that indeed, speed being not on the list. Think poclbm and how it is still alive and well.
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^^ Links clearly look valid and not scammy at all. Especially that image link. :o
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I agree that finding collisions by GPU should be simple to implement in use (maybe by some OpenCL lib), however I thought than performance boost will be larger. Still, there's few optimalization tricks that can be deployed, but need some time consuming work, and diff is rising so fast now.
PS. Sudden impact of GPU miners and farms will raise diff pretty exponential. I suggest buy some shares if that's topic isn't fake ;)
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I suck at programming math, otherwise I'd make one myself.
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Open source in one week?
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huh? now was any of that real? can we see some vid of it working at least?
Sorry, I hate it when a helicopter does not explode in a movie, and do not have a spare helicopter at hand. Now, if you find this amusing, here is how it looks like:
Sun Nov 24 22:21:29 2013 Worker 0 505.567078 hpm --> Upstream RPC result: True
Sun Nov 24 22:21:30 2013 Worker 0 505.573132 hpm --> Upstream RPC result: True
Sun Nov 24 22:21:31 2013 Worker 1 504.408057 hpm --> Upstream RPC result: True
Sun Nov 24 22:21:33 2013 Worker 1 504.419294 hpm --> Upstream RPC result: True
Sun Nov 24 22:21:34 2013 Worker 1 504.401926 hpm --> Upstream RPC result: True
Sun Nov 24 22:21:34 2013 Worker 0 505.529154 hpm --> Upstream RPC result: True
Not even a mining porn, really.
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~3x improvement in hpm...When can we have it? :)
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Is that actually HPM, as in hashes per minute, or collisions per minute (which coyote miner prints as hpm for some reason)?
Coyote: collisions per minute reported as hpm (at least on github which is 12 days old! - the binary probably multiplies this by 2 also, otherwise coyote miner would be two times slower)
Beeer and ypool: collisions per minute * 2 reported as col/m
Which one is it?
edit:
http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=965.0
Ok, so 520HPM is impossible on amazon instance. So it's actually col/m*2 for all public miners.
So unless you specifically modified a miner to report true hpm you're getting 500 col/m. Did you?
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Is that actually HPM, as in hashes per minute, or collisions per minute (which coyote miner prints as hpm for some reason)?
Coyote: collisions per minute reported as hpm (at least on github which is 12 days old! - the binary probably multiplies this by 2 also, otherwise coyote miner would be two times slower)
Beeer and ypool: collisions per minute * 2 reported as col/m
Which one is it?
edit:
http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=965.0
Ok, so 520HPM is impossible on amazon instance. So it's actually col/m*2 for all public miners.
So unless you specifically modified a miner to report true hpm you're getting 500 col/m. Did you?
It is real hpm, or cpm*2.
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That's not hpm, hpm is hashes per minute, or are you certain there's on average exactly one collision per try? I don't blame you for the stats inflation though - the pools started it.
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If there exist GPU miner. What's about to change the hashing algorithm to something else?
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That's not hpm, hpm is hashes per minute, or are you certain there's on average exactly one collision per try? I don't blame you for the stats inflation though - the pools started it.
Well, that depends on which hashes you meter. What you mean must probably be called 'works per minute', it is related to cpm linearly on average and the coefficient must be >1 (average number of collisions in a work is just a tad less than 1). So, it is a deflation instead :)
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Original client worked this way:
pblock->nNonce=pblock->nNonce+1;
testHash=pblock->CalculateBestBirthdayHash(pindexPrev, outdated);
nHashesDone++;
nHashesDone/time = original meter
So cpm is inflation, because as you said, there's less than one collision pair per work.
Not that it really matters now :)
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Is that actually HPM, as in hashes per minute, or collisions per minute (which coyote miner prints as hpm for some reason)?
Coyote: collisions per minute reported as hpm (at least on github which is 12 days old! - the binary probably multiplies this by 2 also, otherwise coyote miner would be two times slower)
Beeer and ypool: collisions per minute * 2 reported as col/m
Which one is it?
edit:
http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=965.0
Ok, so 520HPM is impossible on amazon instance. So it's actually col/m*2 for all public miners.
So unless you specifically modified a miner to report true hpm you're getting 500 col/m. Did you?
Sorry must of been a mistake, on amazon aws instance: 32 core server i was getting 500+ col/min using jhprotominer for ypool.
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Theres a guy on irc freenode #protoshares testing a gpu miner for pts mining
He says 1 GFX card with 2 gig DDR is like the largest amazon ec2 instance,two xeons
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Theres a guy on irc freenode #protoshares testing a gpu miner for pts mining
He says 1 GFX card with 2 gig DDR is like the largest amazon ec2 instance,two xeons
Using a high end video card should get some big hashrates, I wouldn't expect it to be released for free yet.
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Theres a guy on irc freenode #protoshares testing a gpu miner for pts mining
He says 1 GFX card with 2 gig DDR is like the largest amazon ec2 instance,two xeons
If that is all the faster a GPU is then I would have to say that we are VERY close to having a CPU only algorithm. What is the relative power consumption and cost of the systems?
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My 7950 at 1025/1250 ran at 515 cpm, dual gpu 510 cpm each - power draw about 200-225W per GPU, 50W for the System -> 450-500W for 1000 cpm -> around 2 cpm per W
My i5-3570k at home draws 90W under load (whole system) for 120 cpm, thats 1.33 cpm/w
e5 Xeons are better cpm/w (i think they even beat gpus) but are not realistic to compare since one e5 costs around 1000-2000€ and a 7950 200€ max.
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Theres a guy on irc freenode #protoshares testing a gpu miner for pts mining
He says 1 GFX card with 2 gig DDR is like the largest amazon ec2 instance,two xeons
If that is all the faster a GPU is then I would have to say that we are VERY close to having a CPU only algorithm. What is the relative power consumption and cost of the systems?
It's because of sha512, not birthdays.
New intel cpus are extra fast in generating sha512s due to many specialized vector instructions. 32 ht cores 2.1Ghz xeon (2x16) can generate one nonce range in 37ms, radeon 5870 in ~70ms. That's it. Additionally intel cpu can be oced even 2x.
All that birthday searching does nothing, in fact, it probably helps gpu.
Its 40nm gpu vs 22nm cpu though, a three generation gap! Maybe Rx200 Radeons are again much faster than cpu. When the two gpu version comes out I'm going to buy it and write optimized version for it out of curiosity.
Still, few have such high-end cpus.
Also, there's absolutely no resistance to fpga/asics. It can be drastically faster on such things, I mean several orders of magnitude. It's infinitely parallelizable - with 2^23 sha512 cores the collisions for one nonce range could be generated in just a few dozen cycles. Not that it's something important anyway - mining is too short lived for fpga/asics.
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My 7950 at 1025/1250 ran at 515 cpm, dual gpu 510 cpm each - power draw about 200-225W per GPU, 50W for the System -> 450-500W for 1000 cpm -> around 2 cpm per W
My i5-3570k at home draws 90W under load (whole system) for 120 cpm, thats 1.33 cpm/w
e5 Xeons are better cpm/w (i think they even beat gpus) but are not realistic to compare since one e5 costs around 1000-2000€ and a 7950 200€ max.
Your i5 is better cpm/w than a GPU which means that those who own i5's can still mine profitably and cover electric costs. Those who are investing in capital equipment just for mining care about CPM/w and CPM/capital in which case they will probably opt for the GPU approach. But for the average casual miner capital costs are '0' which means all that matters is CPM/w. I believe that an i7 is probably around 1 cpm/w.
As an individual miner, it is cheaper to mine with your CPU than your GPU if you care about return on electricity. That is a win in my book!
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My 7950 at 1025/1250 ran at 515 cpm, dual gpu 510 cpm each - power draw about 200-225W per GPU, 50W for the System -> 450-500W for 1000 cpm -> around 2 cpm per W
My i5-3570k at home draws 90W under load (whole system) for 120 cpm, thats 1.33 cpm/w
e5 Xeons are better cpm/w (i think they even beat gpus) but are not realistic to compare since one e5 costs around 1000-2000€ and a 7950 200€ max.
Your i5 is better cpm/w than a GPU which means that those who own i5's can still mine profitably and cover electric costs. Those who are investing in capital equipment just for mining care about CPM/w and CPM/capital in which case they will probably opt for the GPU approach. But for the average casual miner capital costs are '0' which means all that matters is CPM/w. I believe that an i7 is probably around 1 cpm/w.
As an individual miner, it is cheaper to mine with your CPU than your GPU if you care about return on electricity. That is a win in my book!
1.2 CPM per Watt is worse than 2 CPM per Watt...but yeah, close enough to make cpu mining still a viable option.
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Theres a guy on irc freenode #protoshares testing a gpu miner for pts mining
He says 1 GFX card with 2 gig DDR is like the largest amazon ec2 instance,two xeons
If that is all the faster a GPU is then I would have to say that we are VERY close to having a CPU only algorithm. What is the relative power consumption and cost of the systems?
It's because of sha512, not birthdays.
New intel cpus are extra fast in generating sha512s due to many specialized vector instructions. 32 ht cores 2.1Ghz xeon (2x16) can generate one nonce range in 37ms, radeon 5870 in ~70ms. That's it. Additionally intel cpu can be oced even 2x.
All that birthday searching does nothing, in fact, it probably helps gpu.
Its 40nm gpu vs 22nm cpu though, a three generation gap! Maybe Rx200 Radeons are again much faster than cpu. When the two gpu version comes out I'm going to buy it and write optimized version for it out of curiosity.
Still, few have such high-end cpus.
Also, there's absolutely no resistance to fpga/asics. It can be drastically faster on such things, I mean several orders of magnitude. Not that it's something important anywany - mining is too short lived.
I'd say it is not as much SIMD as it is 64-bit registers that gives x86 such an advantage in sha512. If only radeons had anything like SHLD, they would blow intel away.
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@reorder
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/intelligent-systems/intel-technology/fast-sha512-implementations-ia-processors-paper.html
8.59cycles/bytes for sha512 on large data buffer. Thanks to AVX. It's ridiculous.
Taking into account cost of capital, expected roi and other things, gpus obviously win, but that's quite another point.
(nobody sane is going to buy any hardware for mining this coin)
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meh, i only believe when i see
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For those who are interested and dont know bout it http://openwall.info/wiki/john/OpenCL-SHA-512
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@reorder
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/intelligent-systems/intel-technology/fast-sha512-implementations-ia-processors-paper.html
8.59cycles/bytes for sha512 on large data buffer. It's ridiculous.
Sure thing you can get great results with 128-bit registers and vector rotates and shifts in one cycle. But GPU has just so much more ALUs it kind of compensates. Still, registers are 32-bit and there is no SHLD/SHRD to implement 64-bit ops nicely, so they are pretty much a showstopper.
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My 7950 at 1025/1250 ran at 515 cpm, dual gpu 510 cpm each - power draw about 200-225W per GPU, 50W for the System -> 450-500W for 1000 cpm -> around 2 cpm per W
My i5-3570k at home draws 90W under load (whole system) for 120 cpm, thats 1.33 cpm/w
e5 Xeons are better cpm/w (i think they even beat gpus) but are not realistic to compare since one e5 costs around 1000-2000€ and a 7950 200€ max.
Your i5 is better cpm/w than a GPU which means that those who own i5's can still mine profitably and cover electric costs. Those who are investing in capital equipment just for mining care about CPM/w and CPM/capital in which case they will probably opt for the GPU approach. But for the average casual miner capital costs are '0' which means all that matters is CPM/w. I believe that an i7 is probably around 1 cpm/w.
As an individual miner, it is cheaper to mine with your CPU than your GPU if you care about return on electricity. That is a win in my book!
1.2 CPM per Watt is worse than 2 CPM per Watt...but yeah, close enough to make cpu mining still a viable option.
Right.. what was I thinking... ???
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Sure thing you can get great results with 128-bit registers and vector rotates and shifts in one cycle. But GPU has just so much more ALUs it kind of compensates. Still, registers are 32-bit and there is no SHLD/SHRD to implement 64-bit ops nicely, so they are pretty much a showstopper.
I would say it differently - cpu compensates (VERY well) for less parallelism with vector instructions. Do you agree?
32 bit registers don't make it automatically slower because they're 32 bit, there's just not enough free registers left for all possible waves. Do you have 100% kernel occupancy on all your kernels? I don't think so. SHLD/SHRD isn't going to change it.
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Sure thing you can get great results with 128-bit registers and vector rotates and shifts in one cycle. But GPU has just so much more ALUs it kind of compensates. Still, registers are 32-bit and there is no SHLD/SHRD to implement 64-bit ops nicely, so they are pretty much a showstopper.
I would say it differently - cpu compensates (very well) for less parallelism with vector instructions. Do you agree?
32 bit registers doesn't make it automatically slower because they're 32 bit, there's just not enough free registers left for all possible waves. Do you have 100% kernel occupancy on all your kernels? I don't think so. SHLD/SHRD isn't going to change it.
Well, it is about 99% for this kernel, and no register spilling, AMD has tons of registers, for that matter. Just take a look at what compiler generates when you shift or rotate ulong..
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My 7950 at 1025/1250 ran at 515 cpm, dual gpu 510 cpm each - power draw about 200-225W per GPU, 50W for the System -> 450-500W for 1000 cpm -> around 2 cpm per W
My i5-3570k at home draws 90W under load (whole system) for 120 cpm, thats 1.33 cpm/w
e5 Xeons are better cpm/w (i think they even beat gpus) but are not realistic to compare since one e5 costs around 1000-2000€ and a 7950 200€ max.
Your i5 is better cpm/w than a GPU which means that those who own i5's can still mine profitably and cover electric costs. Those who are investing in capital equipment just for mining care about CPM/w and CPM/capital in which case they will probably opt for the GPU approach. But for the average casual miner capital costs are '0' which means all that matters is CPM/w. I believe that an i7 is probably around 1 cpm/w.
As an individual miner, it is cheaper to mine with your CPU than your GPU if you care about return on electricity. That is a win in my book!
1.2 CPM per Watt is worse than 2 CPM per Watt...but yeah, close enough to make cpu mining still a viable option.
But you cannot economically switch your CPU back to LTC mining when you are done with PTS, so it is not just the power draw.
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But you cannot economically switch your CPU back to LTC mining when you are done with PTS, so it is not just the power draw.
True but you won't have invested into gpus in the first place and i guess your cpu is already present so - win win i guess :D
This is mostly viable for all those gpu rigs owner although ltc is more profitable than pts right now, even with the gpu miner bonus ^^
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This is mostly viable for all those gpu rigs owner although ltc is more profitable than pts right now, even with the gpu miner bonus ^^
Somehow, PTS value increase seems more sustainable than one of LTC :) And supply is running out blazingly fast, a foresighted miner cannot ignore this.
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A 5870 runs at 420 cpm so a 7950 should run at around 700-800 cpm i guess, which turns a 4 gpu 7950 rig into a 2800-3200 cpm beast beating every "high end" cpu out there easily.
You need 9 32 core c3 amazon instances to get that number, running at roughly 4.5$ per hour, a quad 7950 rig draws around 1.2 KW -> even in sucky Germany lousy 30 Cent per hour. Around the world even below 10.
Come again why this is good? This makes PTS more profitable than LTC and you don't want big farms to switch...this might push out cpus pretty quickly, making it a bit more specialised.
yes I think we should have GPU miner , because service adminer can use the company service miner PTS for free , and it is a big harm for PTS , so we should have GPU miner as noon as posibble
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OK, next week I will start some research how to include GPU libs to miner, so stay tuned. IMHO source of existing miners is pretty understandable, so we could have success, I'm optimist here :-) GPU mining in my calculations should be 4-5 times faster on CPU. Of course miner source will be fully open source.
Of course If somebody do some investigation or have sample code, please share out with your work :)
If you like my idea - please donate :)
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Python is significantly slower than C. Buyer beware. Personally i would wait for a C implementation than buy a python one.
Sorry, but so what? You do not need ultra performance to send 10-20 packets of data/sec over network :) Most pools are running python, for that matter.
Anyway, sold.
EDIT: sold exclusively.
Conveinently "sold exclusively" immediately when people started asking to buy it from you. I smell a rat.
Unless you can produce, I'm inclined to NOT believe you.
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Python is significantly slower than C. Buyer beware. Personally i would wait for a C implementation than buy a python one.
Sorry, but so what? You do not need ultra performance to send 10-20 packets of data/sec over network :) Most pools are running python, for that matter.
Anyway, sold.
EDIT: sold exclusively.
Conveinently "sold exclusively" immediately when people started asking to buy it from you. I smell a rat.
Unless you can produce, I'm inclined to NOT believe you.
And by lying to you I am trying to achieve what?
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Any update on this? Will it be released to the public?
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Any update on this? Will it be released to the public?
Right now. Sorta.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1921.0
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Any update on this? Will it be released to the public?
Right now. Sorta.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1921.0
mmc and pts use slighty different versions for their PoW so it would have to be changed further than just editing the host file.