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I sent the MOONFUND I purchased with bitcoin from the newly-generated wallet to my main BitShares address. No problem with that, right?
The price of BTS moved within that time period faster than our API call to our price feed. Metaexchange is showing the correct amount. The correct amount should be displayed within a few minutes on Moonstone.io. Both are just estimates as the final amount is calculated once the first Bitcoin confirmation happens after 10-15 minutes.If you want to see your final balance faster, and if you already have a TITAN ID with the current wallet, you can use Metaexchange. After 10-15 minutes you'll get your MOONFUND tokens.Please let us know whether there are any other issues you encounter!
You will receive approximately0.00 Moonstone Tokens per Bitcoin
I want to donate from the moonstone.io but it tell me I will get 50200 moonfund for one bitcoin.But If I buy from metaxchange, the moonfund price is 0.00001704, that is about 58000 moonfund per bitcoin.Some body can tell me why? I dare not donate for now.
Quote from: bitsapphire on April 09, 2015, 09:21:22 pmQuote from: Bitcoinfan on April 09, 2015, 05:14:30 pmWhat happens when you reach your goal? Will you still refund the donations made after $150k with 15% yield? What if you had 500k dumped on your site. Is there anything preventing you from meeting the target of 15% yield for 500K in donations? If we get 500k dumped then that will be the least of our worries . We would be able to integrate Bitcoin much faster, create a decentralized bridging service, and decentralize the server setup into an oracle setup. Not to mention that we could start with the modularization of the system for future plugins too. If anything like that happens we'll figure out an even better way to compensate everybody!Assuming though we simply pass the 130k goal, based on our calculation and the current BTS exchange rate up to 300k USD worth of MOONFUNDS should be no problem with 5 delegates.Does that address your concerns?Yeah thats great. Btw what's your story? How did you find out about bitshares? And why bitshares? Any other projects you guys worked on before you came here?
Quote from: Bitcoinfan on April 09, 2015, 05:14:30 pmWhat happens when you reach your goal? Will you still refund the donations made after $150k with 15% yield? What if you had 500k dumped on your site. Is there anything preventing you from meeting the target of 15% yield for 500K in donations? If we get 500k dumped then that will be the least of our worries . We would be able to integrate Bitcoin much faster, create a decentralized bridging service, and decentralize the server setup into an oracle setup. Not to mention that we could start with the modularization of the system for future plugins too. If anything like that happens we'll figure out an even better way to compensate everybody!Assuming though we simply pass the 130k goal, based on our calculation and the current BTS exchange rate up to 300k USD worth of MOONFUNDS should be no problem with 5 delegates.Does that address your concerns?
What happens when you reach your goal? Will you still refund the donations made after $150k with 15% yield? What if you had 500k dumped on your site. Is there anything preventing you from meeting the target of 15% yield for 500K in donations?
Congrats on selling BTS down to its lowest price ever to fund moonstone.Its going to be so great when moonstone gives us a 20% rise when it comes out, after driving the price down 50% for the funding. Yep, so awesome.
"Moonstone is a crypto wallet that allows transfers and trades among BitShares, BitAssets, User-Issued Assets (UIA), and other tokens."This description is very difficult for non-BitShares people who might find this page. How about,"Moonstone is a free crypto wallet that allows transfers and trades among Bitcoin, BitAssets (like bitUSD and bitGOLD), User-Issued Assets (UIA), and other tokens."
Quote from: bitsapphire on April 09, 2015, 01:15:08 pmQuote from: CLains on April 09, 2015, 01:11:25 pmCan you spell out more clearly why moontokens are valuable?Each MOONFUND token will be bought back from the market with BTS in the future via delegate pay. For every donation you will receive 15% more MOONFUND tokens than you would BTS on a current exchange. This means that as long as the Moonstone wallet becomes sufficiently popular over the next 5-30 months you can make a return on your donation.I'm concerned about the numbers. Let's say you put a 30 month cutoff on the delegate pay. This means each 100% delegate can only generate 3,905,560 BTS during this 30 month period. You already have 1,350,349 MOONFUND liability with only 5% funded. If we assume the price of BTS remains the same over the next 30 days, then raising $130,000 requires generating a total of (1.15 * 130,000 / 0.005399) = 27,690,313 MOONFUND tokens (assuming the crowdfunding is successful). In order to generate enough BTS to buyback the MOONFUND at a 1-to-1 rate, you would need 27,690,313/3,905,560 = 7.09 100% paid delegates (so round that up to 8 delegates). The problem will be even worse if the price of BTS continues to drop over the next 30 days.The problem is you are offering 15% return on BTS. If BTS price is expected to shoot up in the next year or so like we all expect it will, you will be overpaying a lot! It was a much more realistic deal when the return was on the dollar amount donated.Edit: I don't think you should change the deal now that the fundraiser has started. But you should just be clear about exactly how many delegates you plan to include in the opt-out selection for the Moonstone wallet and what your maximum cut off time is before you take the delegates down (or at least stop using their pay to buy back MOONFUND tokens). That way people can properly assess the risk of not getting paid back (or what percentage they will be paid back).Furthermore, you should not do a continuous buyback since you cannot know if you will be able to fulfill the entire buyback at a 1-to-1 rate prior to the cut off time. In this case, the people who are fastest to sell their MOONFUND tokens will profit at the expense of the slower movers. To be fair, you should instead regularly distribute dividends to MOONFUND holders.
Quote from: CLains on April 09, 2015, 01:11:25 pmCan you spell out more clearly why moontokens are valuable?Each MOONFUND token will be bought back from the market with BTS in the future via delegate pay. For every donation you will receive 15% more MOONFUND tokens than you would BTS on a current exchange. This means that as long as the Moonstone wallet becomes sufficiently popular over the next 5-30 months you can make a return on your donation.
Can you spell out more clearly why moontokens are valuable?
Quote from: nomoreheroes7 on April 09, 2015, 05:23:11 pmWhat if we want to do multiple donations? Would you just send some more BTC at a later time to the same BTC address you generated when you first created the wallet?Is there any way to check and see whether our donation was received and our wallet credited?That flow should work - metaexchange deposit addresses are reusable and the moonstone team is using our API to generate the addresses on their fundraiser page. bitsapphire should be able to confirm
What if we want to do multiple donations? Would you just send some more BTC at a later time to the same BTC address you generated when you first created the wallet?Is there any way to check and see whether our donation was received and our wallet credited?
Quote from: liondani on April 09, 2015, 10:38:36 pmThats why future fund-raisers should get advises from the community before they start... just my 2 MOONSTONES Nehh... why bother? "We will receive the delegates pay and buy back the IOU" was as detail explanation as we got from bitsapphire....and this was enough for at least 2 months of min 2-3 daily posts that applauded them and virtually promised that the project will bring the price of BTS to the... moon (appropriately). Why break the good mojo with some details and logic? nehh.[edit]PSAnd yes this was my only question (alongside with several critiques) when the funding with delegates/buying back the IOU was initially announced... And I have not seen yet any model that makes this working smoothly (it is a rare case but I am not in owe with arhag's proposals neither)
Thats why future fund-raisers should get advises from the community before they start... just my 2 MOONSTONES
Another thing I would suggest is to reduce the MOONFUND to BTS donated rate as the fundraiser progresses. Right now it is 1.15 MOONFUND for every BTS donated. Perhaps when the fundraiser is 50% funded the rate could be dropped to 1.10 MOONFUND per BTS donated and then after 80% funding could be further dropped to 1.05 MOONFUND per BTS donated.This serves two roles. First, it reduces the liabilities for the buyback meaning that satisfying all promises becomes possible in a shorter amount of time (meaning earlier cut off deadline). Second, it encourages people to donate early when there is greater risk since there is less information regarding the probability of the fundraiser reaching its goal (and if the fundraiser doesn't reach its goal and become MIT licensed, the community is slightly less likely to promote the Moonstone client, which means it is slightly less likely that the 5 delegates will get elected in the first place).
In my calculation, 5 delegates for 42 months. Baaed on current BTS price.But here's variables. Bts price can go up during the fundraising, and some people will sell moonfund at discounted price.
Quote from: bitsapphire on April 09, 2015, 01:15:08 pmQuote from: CLains on April 09, 2015, 01:11:25 pmCan you spell out more clearly why moontokens are valuable?Each MOONFUND token will be bought back from the market with BTS in the future via delegate pay. For every donation you will receive 15% more MOONFUND tokens than you would BTS on a current exchange. This means that as long as the Moonstone wallet becomes sufficiently popular over the next 5-30 months you can make a return on your donation.I'm concerned about the numbers. Let's say you put a 30 month cutoff on the delegate pay. This means each 100% delegate can only generate 3,905,560 BTS during this 30 month period. You already have 1,350,349 MOONFUND liability with only 5% funded. If we assume the price of BTS remains the same over the next 30 days, then raising $130,000 requires generating a total of (1.15 * 130,000 / 0.005399) = 27,690,313 MOONFUND tokens (assuming the crowdfunding is successful). In order to generate enough BTS to buyback the MOONFUND at a 1-to-1 rate, you would need 27,690,313/3,905,560 = 7.09 100% paid delegates (so round that up to 8 delegates). The problem will be even worse if the price of BTS continues to drop over the next 30 days.The problem is you are offering 15% return on BTS. If BTS price is expected to shoot up in the next year or so like we all expect it will, you will be overpaying a lot! It was a much more realistic deal when the return was on the dollar amount donated.
Quote from: .yoshi on April 09, 2015, 06:11:08 pmI generated/downloaded the wallet.json file and donated. Where can I see my MOONFUND balance?To clarify: I tried importing the JSON file into my BitShares wallet and the application warned me that importing the moonstone .json wallet would overwrite my current wallet so I did not proceed. Any tips?Go your account, keys tab, and choose second tab where bitcoin wallet files can be imported. Choose .json format and import your Moonstone wallet.
I generated/downloaded the wallet.json file and donated. Where can I see my MOONFUND balance?To clarify: I tried importing the JSON file into my BitShares wallet and the application warned me that importing the moonstone .json wallet would overwrite my current wallet so I did not proceed. Any tips?
this summer
Quote from: lil_jay890 on April 09, 2015, 03:41:18 pmOk maybe you can dumb this down for me. Say I have $100 to invest. I think bts is going to be 100-500% higher within the next 6 months. Shouldn't I just invest in bts since that return will be much higher than the 15% moonstone is offering?If you think BTS is going to be worth 100-500% in a few months, then you would want to accumulate as much MOONFUND as possible (not investment advice, just saying). You can get 15% more BTS in the long run with your 100 USD by buying MOONFUND than by putting your money directly into BTS.Concretely, if you want to spend 100 USD today on BTS you can get 18,000 BTS,If you donate to Moonstone you can get 20,700 BTS in the long run.I would really like to know whether that was simple enough. We'd like to include a simple explanation for our newsletter today. Please let us know what you think!
Ok maybe you can dumb this down for me. Say I have $100 to invest. I think bts is going to be 100-500% higher within the next 6 months. Shouldn't I just invest in bts since that return will be much higher than the 15% moonstone is offering?
Quote from: davidpbrown on April 09, 2015, 02:29:05 pm...I notice though that the total $ on https://moonstone.io/ hasn't updated."The total number and percentage bar are updated on a 15-30 minute basis as we count only verified bitcoin transactions and cloudflare takes about 15 minutes to update on all continents. This is normal and expected." from second post in this thread.
...I notice though that the total $ on https://moonstone.io/ hasn't updated.
"Upon donation you will receive 1.15 Bitsapphire UIAs, meaning, for every dollar you put in an additional 15% will get back to you in the form of a buyback over the next 5-30 months."Can you clarify when exactly we get back our "donation"? In 5,6,7... our 30 months? Suppose the BTS market cap increase the next months and the $130000 will be collected from your 5 elected delegates in 9 months from now... does it mean it mean you release the fund then our gradually every day for example? (something like vested funds)
Quote from: tonyk2 on April 09, 2015, 02:46:44 pm1. Are the prices on metaexchange.info and moonstone.io different by design?2. If this funding goes real well - Are you gonna end it at ~130K USD or you gonna let it run for the while 30 days, collecting say 200K USD?metaexchange.info is just the current exchange pricing determined by the market (not moonstone.io). It should be traded theoretically at a 15% discount to what BTS are worth now, anything off of that is an arbitrage opportunity. Right now 1 BTC = 44k BTS, and 1 BTC=51k MOONFUND, so it looks about right.
1. Are the prices on metaexchange.info and moonstone.io different by design?2. If this funding goes real well - Are you gonna end it at ~130K USD or you gonna let it run for the while 30 days, collecting say 200K USD?
Quote from: maqifrnswa on April 09, 2015, 02:55:32 pmmetaexchange.info is just the current exchange pricing determined by the market (not moonstone.io).That's incorrect - bitsapphire is running a metaexchange node to support this fundraiser in partnership with us - the prices on metaexchange are the live fundraiser prices with no markup
metaexchange.info is just the current exchange pricing determined by the market (not moonstone.io).
Quote from: tonyk2 on April 09, 2015, 02:46:44 pm1. Are the prices on metaexchange.info and moonstone.io different by design?2. If this funding goes real well - Are you gonna end it at ~130K USD or you gonna let it run for the while 30 days, collecting say 200K USD?metaexchange.info is just the current exchange pricing determined by the market (not moonstone.io). It should be traded theoretically at a 15% discount to what BTS are worth now, anything off of that is an arbitrage opportunity. Right now 1 BTC = 44k BTS, and 1 BTC=51k MOONFUND, so it looks about right.EDIT: Also, MOONFUND exchanges shouldn't count to the crowdfunding campaign, since it is done outside of crowdfunding.(MOONFUND is the right UIA, correct?)
Quote from: maqifrnswa on April 09, 2015, 02:55:32 pm(MOONSTONE is the right UIA, correct?)nop .. AFAIK its MOONFUND
(MOONSTONE is the right UIA, correct?)
Quote from: bitsapphire on April 09, 2015, 02:16:13 pmThe tokens are send to your newly generated wallet directly.I wonder most people will already have a BitShares wallet and might then prefer to use that with https://metaexchange.info/markets/MOONFUND/BTC That just worked well for me and MOONFUND received but I notice though that the total $ on https://moonstone.io/ hasn't updated.
The tokens are send to your newly generated wallet directly.
Any issues donating directly from Coinbase to my assigned BTC address?
why not support bitusd
I'm kind of confused as to the whole "buyback" model that's going on. Is it basically BitSapphire delegates that will need to get hired by the blockchain in order to pay back moonstone donations? What if BitSapphire can't get enough delegates elected? What are the reasonable odds of losing money in the whole deal as opposed to receiving a 15% ROI? Is there a risk of losing all investment if things don't work out as planned?Basically, how much riskier is it to buy and hold moonstone IOUs as opposed to just hodling BTS?