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Quote from: Amazon on May 07, 2014, 01:08:54 amSunny King agreed to talk? I think it never happened before.It's was once over IRC:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=313108.0PS: Sunny King nice guy
Sunny King agreed to talk? I think it never happened before.
Quote from: delulo on May 08, 2014, 06:04:50 pmQuote from: liondani on May 07, 2014, 10:53:54 pmQuote from: charleshoskinson on May 07, 2014, 05:35:32 pmI've always believed Bitshares has great potential, which is why I was one of the founders of Invictus, my name is on the original whitepaper and I helped Invictus receive its first round of VC investment from Bitfund.pe. I also believe that like Bitcoin, Bitshares is an economic experiment that requires a great deal of market testing prior to making claims about what is possible, which was why I recruited Dr. Charles Evans who originally came from the Bitcoin Education Project (another venture I started with Drs. Brian Goss and Nikos Bentinitis) and Emanuele Costa- an Italian quant from England.I am impressed. Many others I supposed too. Give us please your ETH tipping address .... hm, sorry, your BTC/PTS tipping address so we have all the oportunity to donate a couple of frappuccinos...Posts like this just help to act out aggression and are hate driven. Fuz' last post expressed his own opinion and gave the reasons for why he feels so. It also explicitly stated what is fact and what is supposition. Can we not all agree on some basic discussion culture without personal offence?Delulo, you are an invaluable member of this community man. Now when are you going to be hosting a chat with Stallman?
Quote from: liondani on May 07, 2014, 10:53:54 pmQuote from: charleshoskinson on May 07, 2014, 05:35:32 pmI've always believed Bitshares has great potential, which is why I was one of the founders of Invictus, my name is on the original whitepaper and I helped Invictus receive its first round of VC investment from Bitfund.pe. I also believe that like Bitcoin, Bitshares is an economic experiment that requires a great deal of market testing prior to making claims about what is possible, which was why I recruited Dr. Charles Evans who originally came from the Bitcoin Education Project (another venture I started with Drs. Brian Goss and Nikos Bentinitis) and Emanuele Costa- an Italian quant from England.I am impressed. Many others I supposed too. Give us please your ETH tipping address .... hm, sorry, your BTC/PTS tipping address so we have all the oportunity to donate a couple of frappuccinos...Posts like this just help to act out aggression and are hate driven. Fuz' last post expressed his own opinion and gave the reasons for why he feels so. It also explicitly stated what is fact and what is supposition. Can we not all agree on some basic discussion culture without personal offence?
Quote from: charleshoskinson on May 07, 2014, 05:35:32 pmI've always believed Bitshares has great potential, which is why I was one of the founders of Invictus, my name is on the original whitepaper and I helped Invictus receive its first round of VC investment from Bitfund.pe. I also believe that like Bitcoin, Bitshares is an economic experiment that requires a great deal of market testing prior to making claims about what is possible, which was why I recruited Dr. Charles Evans who originally came from the Bitcoin Education Project (another venture I started with Drs. Brian Goss and Nikos Bentinitis) and Emanuele Costa- an Italian quant from England.I am impressed. Many others I supposed too. Give us please your ETH tipping address .... hm, sorry, your BTC/PTS tipping address so we have all the oportunity to donate a couple of frappuccinos...
I've always believed Bitshares has great potential, which is why I was one of the founders of Invictus, my name is on the original whitepaper and I helped Invictus receive its first round of VC investment from Bitfund.pe. I also believe that like Bitcoin, Bitshares is an economic experiment that requires a great deal of market testing prior to making claims about what is possible, which was why I recruited Dr. Charles Evans who originally came from the Bitcoin Education Project (another venture I started with Drs. Brian Goss and Nikos Bentinitis) and Emanuele Costa- an Italian quant from England.
Quote from: delulo on May 08, 2014, 06:04:50 pmQuote from: liondani on May 07, 2014, 10:53:54 pmQuote from: charleshoskinson on May 07, 2014, 05:35:32 pmI've always believed Bitshares has great potential, which is why I was one of the founders of Invictus, my name is on the original whitepaper and I helped Invictus receive its first round of VC investment from Bitfund.pe. I also believe that like Bitcoin, Bitshares is an economic experiment that requires a great deal of market testing prior to making claims about what is possible, which was why I recruited Dr. Charles Evans who originally came from the Bitcoin Education Project (another venture I started with Drs. Brian Goss and Nikos Bentinitis) and Emanuele Costa- an Italian quant from England.I am impressed. Many others I supposed too. Give us please your ETH tipping address .... hm, sorry, your BTC/PTS tipping address so we have all the oportunity to donate a couple of frappuccinos...Posts like this just help to act out aggression and are hate driven. Fuz' last post expressed his own opinion and gave the reasons for why he feels so. It also explicitly stated what is fact and what is supposition. Can we not all agree on some basic discussion culture without personal offence?My apologizes. I am not proud for my last posts either. But it is not hate driven, really! I don't even know him personnaly... Just was uppset at that time with what i had read...I say official sorry to Charles and will delete the last posts.
Is there a place where we can see exactly where your funding is coming from? Is there transparency to a degree that anyone can audit your funding at present? These are very solid questions that everyone should be asking before considering investing.
Quotebe friendly and peaceful fuz! *skepticism should be directed towards systems / incentive structures and not against people. I appreciate charles' presence here on the forum. Both communities win and can colaborate! Both sides loose in a war (always!), friendly collaboration makes everyone gain. Also being friendly on a personal/individual level is the only possible basis to criticize the other one's systems in a rational and constructive way. I don't see any contradiction with my critique of ethereum and a welcoming attitude towards its creators.I appreciate that perspective and also share it.Quote Specialized ASICs and big money will not be required for him to have access...it is my sincere hope he can appreciate this ease of access!Fuz you have been spreading this FUD for weeks throughout many channels. We do not endorse ASICs and have gone on record many times specifically stating that our goal is to have an ASIC immune CPU friendly algorithm. It is even listed as a research problem for the CCRG agenda. It is a lie. Please stop saying it. As for funding, we have received no outside investment. 100 percent of Ethereum's operations have thus far been covered by people within the project including myself. We have no relationship with Goldman Sachs or any bank nor will receive an investment from them. I campaigned in 2008 for Ron Paul in Colorado, Iowa and New Hampshire against the corruption of banks and find your recent comments enormously offensive to both my history in this space and to the people working on the Ethereum project.
be friendly and peaceful fuz! *skepticism should be directed towards systems / incentive structures and not against people. I appreciate charles' presence here on the forum. Both communities win and can colaborate! Both sides loose in a war (always!), friendly collaboration makes everyone gain. Also being friendly on a personal/individual level is the only possible basis to criticize the other one's systems in a rational and constructive way. I don't see any contradiction with my critique of ethereum and a welcoming attitude towards its creators.
Specialized ASICs and big money will not be required for him to have access...it is my sincere hope he can appreciate this ease of access!
I am impressed. Many others I supposed too. Give us please your ETH tipping address .... hm, sorry, your BTC/PTS tipping address so we have all the oportunity to donate a couple of frappuccinos...
It was Dan Larimer who then recorded a hidden cam video of Vitalik answering a loaded question.
I'm inclined to agree in principle. It does seems strange to witness a lot of Ethereum hostility when OT actually presents a much greater existential threat to BitShares X. Ethereum is a fairly foundational technology that will be interoperable with everything from Ripple to Bitshares. Also it is the only platform being developed that can currently enable general purpose autonomous agents living on blockchain. It seems such things would be useful for funds like AGS and management of distributive orgs.
Could you provide specific examples?
n that respect I do not appreciate your statement above.
Critique is the best thing that can happen to you if you don't take it personally AND if the critic does not apply arguments that are influenced by personal/subjective issues one has with the object of the critique. The thing is such a bad discussion culture reinforces itself.
implying Invictus would not handle donations in a responsible manner.
But I would like to see this being avoided. It lacks the necessary respect. It just increases suspicion and the assumption in some that the critic (in that case charles) is not benevolent towards the bitshares project.
This community also thought of a crypto technology magazine. Why not join these efforts and send a signal of friendly collaboration. It would work under the circumstances I tried to characterize above.
Overall I think that like in any field a few approaches will survive. Specialization will happen and every approach will have it's application which it is suited best for. There is no real competition, especially if we finally part form the currency analogy.
It seems Bitshares is currently most handicapped by poor execution and a lack of development methodology like SCRUM. There also still doesn't seem to be significant cryptographic talent on the team after all these months to review the code that will eventually be trusted with millions in wealth. We recruited Drs. Koblitz and Merkle amongst others to assist us on the Ethereum side and I'd highly encourage the Bitshares team to consider someone like Peter Todd at the very least to sculpt their efforts.
You've raised millions from the community and in my humble opinion it's worth it to stakeholders of Bitshares X to have greater certainty.
The really important concept is making sure everything is open sourced, subject to community review and packaged in a way that is easy to understand to onboard new minds quickly. This is the reason why we are building the cryptocurrency research group, starting a new peer reviewed journal and investing heavily into onboarding academia.
@Hoskinson: I'll admit to having my own fair share of fear, uncertainty and doubts about Ethereum, but that was mostly caused by things you've said or written yourself, not by what I've heard others say/write. What would you suggest to be a good place or way to publicly address these misunderstandings or differences in point of view? Preferably one where people like myself who are unable to attend conferences can still participate if only by providing questions and listening.There was some discussion on the mumble-server to try and organize a regular public discussion round about topics like PoW vs PoS between some of the more knowledgeable people on the subject with opposing opinions. I believe Dan Larimer proposed a similar idea himself and the discussion with Sunny King seems to be one of the first results of that. Would it be possible then to organize a similar public mumble-session like discussion with someone from the Ethereum team? Might be a good chance to address at least some of the FUD you've been referring to or at the very least clear up some misunderstandings.
but that was mostly caused by things you've said or written yourself,
What would you suggest to be a good place or way to publicly address these misunderstandings or differences in point of view?
Would it be possible then to organize a similar public mumble-session like discussion with someone from the Ethereum team? Might be a good chance to address at least some of the FUD you've been referring to or at the very least clear up some misunderstandings.
Charles, 1>Sounds good. I look forward to the another panel discussion with you three plus David Johnston. 2> Anthony and Vitalik have been being my close friends before the Ethereum project, they will be well taken care of during their staying in China. I look forward to seeing five friends from Ethereum team tomorrow. I have arranged my other Chinese friends who are planning on the trips around China with Vitalik. No Worries.
There's no question you Ethereum folks are getting all dressed up. I sure hope there's somewhere to go...something behind it all. I think it's possible for a company/project to succeed in this space with a lot less than what you're putting into it. But good luck and I'm rooting for you.
Bo, we should do another panel like the one in Miami at some point in the future. Also thanks for agreeing to show Vitalik around China. Try to keep him out of trouble.
Good response, thanks. Comments: I think making asic-proof mining is a dead end, people don't realize ethereum team think its not so this causes FUD about ethereum preferring centralization which is clearly nonsense.On the flip side I think it causes FUD when you say "Bitshares is an economic experiment" when you are referring to Bitshares X. That's our fault for renaming the concepts but Me and .p2p are both basically clones of existing dacsIt's my understanding what sergio lerner will review toolkit code (found 5 out of the 10 top bitcoin security vulnerabilities)
I think making asic-proof mining is a dead end
I've always believed Bitshares has great potential, which is why I was one of the founders of Invictus, my name is on the original whitepaper and I helped Invictus receive its first round of VC investment from Bitfund.pe. I also believe that like Bitcoin, Bitshares is an economic experiment that requires a great deal of market testing prior to making claims about what is possible, which was why I recruited Dr. Charles Evans who originally came from the Bitcoin Education Project (another venture I started with Drs. Brian Goss and Nikos Bentinitis) and Emanuele Costa- an Italian quant from England.It seems Bitshares is currently most handicapped by poor execution and a lack of development methodology like SCRUM. There also still doesn't seem to be significant cryptographic talent on the team after all these months to review the code that will eventually be trusted with millions in wealth. We recruited Drs. Koblitz and Merkle amongst others to assist us on the Ethereum side and I'd highly encourage the Bitshares team to consider someone like Peter Todd at the very least to sculpt their efforts.
Charles has a terrific command of the space. If he were to throw support behind BitShares, things would move very fast after product launch.
I love to see that happen !!!Wow! Sunny K, Daniel L and Charles H.
Quote from: fuznuts on May 07, 2014, 06:30:23 amQuote from: charleshoskinson on May 07, 2014, 04:56:20 amI remember that mic quite well. It's probably still in the Floyd ranch in the basement next to that ridiculous tri - monitor thunderbolt setup. Another fun fact is that I recorded all of the udemy bitcoin lectures on the mic.Did you guys ever upgrade the bridge?The timing of this good jesture is not lost on skeptical fuznuts...fuznuts wishes so that the world did not require such skepticism...be friendly and peaceful fuz! *skepticism should be directed towards systems / incentive structures and not against people. I appreciate charles' presence here on the forum. Both communities win and can colaborate! Both sides loose in a war (always!), friendly collaboration makes everyone gain. Also being friendly on a personal/individual level is the only possible basis to criticize the other one's systems in a rational and constructive way. I don't see any contradiction with my critique of ethereum and a welcoming attitude towards its creators.
Quote from: charleshoskinson on May 07, 2014, 04:56:20 amI remember that mic quite well. It's probably still in the Floyd ranch in the basement next to that ridiculous tri - monitor thunderbolt setup. Another fun fact is that I recorded all of the udemy bitcoin lectures on the mic.Did you guys ever upgrade the bridge?The timing of this good jesture is not lost on skeptical fuznuts...fuznuts wishes so that the world did not require such skepticism...
I remember that mic quite well. It's probably still in the Floyd ranch in the basement next to that ridiculous tri - monitor thunderbolt setup. Another fun fact is that I recorded all of the udemy bitcoin lectures on the mic.Did you guys ever upgrade the bridge?
OMG, a true-blue BM fanboy
Quote from: smiley35 on May 06, 2014, 10:43:32 pmHaven't made it yet, can't make it this time. Damn. I'll catch the podcast though. All the sessions are being recorded right?Yes they are. This particular one will have Legend as the Voice of Sunny King though.Quote from: toast on May 06, 2014, 10:48:04 pmA+ good shit! Make Dan get a microphone!Lol...just goes to show you where his priorities are for spending AGS funds are
Haven't made it yet, can't make it this time. Damn. I'll catch the podcast though. All the sessions are being recorded right?
A+ good shit! Make Dan get a microphone!
Two giants take the stage together. Great event. I'm thrilled that you're collaborating even in some small way. For an encore, how about bringing in the ghost of BCNext?