how MineBitShares works? worth 7 100% delegate???

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Note: I don't know if that fud part was addressed to me, because of my comment, but I hope it wasn't.

No it was a general statement not just in relation to this project.

FUD fəd/
noun
noun: FUD; plural noun: FUDs
fear, uncertainty and doubt, usually evoked intentionally in order to put a competitor at a disadvantage.
"the FUD factor"

I think people can look at this thread and judge for themselves if we are witnessing FUDers in action.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

most of your posts read as such though.

newmine:  This is a stupid idea.  you are all fucking idiots.  The reasons are <valid point> <valid point> <stretched point> <insult>.  You are all fucking idiots for allowing this.

What I would like to see is

newmine:  This is a stupid idea.  The reasons are <valid point> <valid point>.  It seems as if what you are attempting to accomplish is <goal of bitshares>.  Wouldn't that goal be better accomplished by <proposal>  <attempt to reach consensus>

If everyone thinks I am way off here please let me know.

What you like to see is reasonable. However, most of what is stated by the proponent you refer to are not valid points, but made up ones that have no basis in the facts. The information presented is often twisted and or outright wrong and is presented as fact to come across as a 'valid point' as you put it. For anybody else who doesn't know better, they take it as such without having cross referenced the real information.

Better yet, focusing in on a particular element and then removing others to attempt to make the point. It's like showing how 'stupid' a leg is when you don't have two of them attached to a body. In this instance, nothing has been said about 'all' the benefits, but tons of focus on creating new users. Frankly I don't see that as our primary value proposition. My responses clearly show that. Yet the discourse being presented by the proponent attempt to zoom in on one element as I stated.

Similar methods are used in political campaigns as a means of destroying opponents.

Definition of troll: informal - make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.

People can read this thread and others by simply checking out all his posts to make the judgement for themselves if this is indeed an appropriate definition. They can see it all here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=5906

[Akado]

That however, shouldn't discourage discussion about trying to come up with something better and given that the budget includes 7- 8 delegates, we have lots of possibilities. Imagine having 7-8 more devs working on this full time. However we just don't have those resources and the only solution atm is MineBItShares. But we should try to come up with something better, which should be possible.

Sitting around in forums FUDing all over a project that voters have voted to see push forward is doing nothing constructive.

Come up with better ways to bring liquidity to the markets.. because when 2.0 hits.. we are REALLY going to need it.. otherwise it's going to be a turn and burn of new potential traders when they cannot get decent liquidity in our markets... so if there are solutions for how we can do something MORE to ensure that... awesome.. have that discussion. Pissing all over the solution you got in your hand that is actually working though and is in development while everyone sits around saying there must be a better way.. again.. is nothing constructive.

I have given all the numbers that support this in the other thread that anybody can use their good sense to judge for themselves with.

Our original bid is also at http://vote.bunkermining.com.

Exactly, we need to be constantly trying to develop new ways of increasing liquidity. And this is the best we have at the moment. However you can't deny those two points I mentioned. They're factual.

Note: I don't know if that fud part was addressed to me, because of my comment, but I hope it wasn't.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

That however, shouldn't discourage discussion about trying to come up with something better and given that the budget includes 7- 8 delegates, we have lots of possibilities. Imagine having 7-8 more devs working on this full time. However we just don't have those resources and the only solution atm is MineBItShares. But we should try to come up with something better, which should be possible.

At present most of the funds are in fact going to devs on this project.  How much dev time does 2 BTC a month gets you? That is about what 1 100% delegate makes now. Most crypto programmers want to be paid in BTC. Good luck finding someone who will even talk to you bout your project when thats all you got to offer. That was how I operated for the first 3 months and couldn't get anywhere with being able to get these updates done because of it.

The proposal is clear.. and the benefits are huge. I again refer to the links I provide already in this thread where we gave a complete breakdown of just how much each miner is worth and the returns on investment to have an effective mining pool for BitShares and how it provides liquidity, volume, and new users to all the bitassets markets in the NEW pool which is being DEVELOPED RIGHT NOW.

Here is the link again: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18253.0.html

Discussion follows on there as well about various aspects to further explain points that some people wanted clarification on.

8 delegates = 16 BTC a month. A portion of that is going to payouts, and portion to dev. On top of all that I am still out of my OWN POCKET for all the servers and network resources and my own time on this. (I know this disappoints the newmine fantasy world where I am getting rich on this)

All of the new delegates that just got voted in we cannot even get to the funds until we pay back the contributors who loaned the money in support of this project to create them. After that we actually just barely have enough for when the new pool is finished to pay up remaining balances due to the developers then.

I seriously appeal to everyones good sense and your ability to use good judgement for yourselves to look at the facts of the benefits this project brings, and support it accordingly with your votes.

Sitting around in forums FUDing all over a project that voters have voted to see push forward is doing nothing constructive.

Come up with better ways to bring liquidity to the markets.. because when 2.0 hits.. we are REALLY going to need it.. otherwise it's going to be a turn and burn of new potential traders when they cannot get decent liquidity in our markets... so if there are solutions for how we can do something MORE to ensure that... awesome.. have that discussion. Pissing all over the solution you got in your hand that is actually working though and is in development while everyone sits around saying there must be a better way.. again.. is nothing constructive.

I have given all the numbers that support this in the other thread that anybody can use their good sense to judge for themselves with.

Our original bid is also at http://vote.bunkermining.com.

[puppies]

mining  user of bitUSD
is they worth  7 100% delegate?

Really? A FUDer makes stuff up and you are +5ing them?

How many mining pools has he run? zero
Does he want to see bitshares succeed? no
Is what he is saying based on facts? no

He is here to destroy bitshares not build it up.

The fact that he is putting this much effort into trying to detract people from supporting it is evidence in itself of it being a threat to his desire to see bitshares go under rather than go to the moon. This project will drive liquidity into the bitassets markets that are much needed.

I have provided all the information needed for people to make informed decisions based on facts several times over. I recommend referencing the links provided again if you haven't yet.

What was not a fact?

Here is fact that everyone would agree with; you don't deserve multiple delegates while the developers only get 1 each.

I didn't start this thread by the way. Oh, and I want Bitshares to succeed. I just want Bitshares from a year ago to succeed. I hold my few shares and hope with doubts that the current incarnation will be a success. You guys continue to put major hurdles in front of you. And by "you guys" I don't mean you. You have no impact in the success of Bitshares now or ever.

that was not said with the intention of making data feel good about himself.

Seriously though.  The intentional baiting in that post tells you all you need to know about newmine and his intentions.

While sometimes I agree with him, and sometimes he has good points, those points are always negative abd he never offers a solution for going forward. He is more interested in being proven right than in being right.  In short he is a troll.

"The intentional baiting in that post tells you all you need to know about newmine and his intentions." I offered up serious propositions which everyone should examine and analyze and I get called a FUDster because of it and I am the one baiting? The only thing I said that you should have taken out of this was, is data nodes ability to draw users in worth the current $700 a week or could that money be put to better use in order to bring users in?  Nobody even responded to that saying, "hey, data node brings in X amount of new users every week, so he is worth $700 per week and worth $615 more than any of the Devs per week"

Here is a quick recap of what just went down:

DatNode: hey everyone,  I need funds to make an esoteric bicycle to bring users over to Bitshares Hill Valley.
Newmine: hey everyone,  why don't we direct funds to build a car, bus, or train get users over to Bitshares  Hill Valley
DatNode: Newmines a FUDster!
Newmine: why am I a FUDster. Your bicycle idea is flawed and not worth the cost.  Especially since most users are walking here by themselves on accident. Also, The people building the destination for your bicycle route make 1/8 what you are getting.
Puppies: Newmines a troll and never offers solutions. don't listen to him.

2 of my posts in this thread offer solutions "for going forward". If I am a troll for saying that, you're a lying pos.

The only hint of a solution I saw in your posts was give random people $50 in bitshares.  If I missed something I apologize. 

It was what I took as your deliberate baiting of data that led me to call you a troll.  That and your history of negative posts that point out all of the issues you see with what is going on, while rarely if ever offering a potential solution. 

I think you have a keen mind and your analysis is quite often illuminating.  As I stated above. 

most of your posts read as such though.

newmine:  This is a stupid idea.  you are all fucking idiots.  The reasons are <valid point> <valid point> <stretched point> <insult>.  You are all fucking idiots for allowing this.

What I would like to see is

newmine:  This is a stupid idea.  The reasons are <valid point> <valid point>.  It seems as if what you are attempting to accomplish is <goal of bitshares>.  Wouldn't that goal be better accomplished by <proposal>  <attempt to reach consensus>

If everyone thinks I am way off here please let me know.

[Akado]

Guys,  the points of my post are:

1. You are fishing for users out of a jar in a small pond.  Meaning you are recruiting users from a small subset within a smaller subset within an even smaller subset of users. This is not efficient.

2. If mining is so necessary, why is everyone so quick to bash POW as a waste of money. You are justifying mining to build the network but not secure it.

3. If you think this project justifies more delegates (he actually has 8 )than the developers get, then you guys have some problems in weighing priorities.

You're not going to catch a whale or a bunch of sardines out if a jar in a pond. Go to the ocean. Use these funds for things that have a higher probability of drawing in a Bitshares user.

Also,you should check out minebitshares. Most if the payout goes to 2or 3 large farms. Wouldn't be surprised if bunker data node owns one. It's cool that you want to subsidize large mining ops, but I simply ask you, is the few users they bring in worth $700 in BTS per week? Or is there a chance that $700 could be re aligned for something better. I bet if you randomly gave away $50 in BTS to two people a day, it would bring more users in than mining pools

To Newmines point, 4 of 5 of my ASIC's have died over the past months and I'm not buying any more. 

Yeah, I sold my ASIC's over a year and half ago. Ad-aware on one computer wanted to scrub a bunch of my mining programs and I allowed it. Mining is dying. Or at least it is fading.  The obscure crap coins will eventually dry up on exchanges, and the the other coins difficulty will continue to rise. These two things make the future usefulness of a mining pool to bring in new users worthless. You are buying stock in blockbuster 6 years ago.

How is this post fud? Imo newmines tries to prove 2 points here (correct me if I'm wrong):

1. This is a high risk - high reward operation. If it succeeds, awesome, if it doesn't, given the amount of money involved, it's a huge waste and that's something we can't or shouldn't afford to loose/risk.
2. Time vs Money. Given the amount of money involved, maybe other more profitable stuff could be done, given this will take it's time to gain traction. There could be things more worthy that could either use less money or take less time to be developed.

The problem is, none of us knows a better solution, which is safer, cheaper and takes less time, so we all get behind this project and just hope it succeeds. That's what he's trying to say. Instead of trying to come up with something better - with which this community would definitely benefit - we all just cross our fingers and wait. But I'm included in that as well, I currently don't know of any other solution so I can only support this.

That however, shouldn't discourage discussion about trying to come up with something better and given that the budget includes 7- 8 delegates, we have lots of possibilities. Imagine having 7-8 more devs working on this full time. However we just don't have those resources and the only solution atm is MineBItShares. But we should try to come up with something better, which should be possible.

[Pheonike]

mining  user of bitUSD
is they worth  7 100% delegate?

Really? A FUDer makes stuff up and you are +5ing them?

How many mining pools has he run? zero
Does he want to see bitshares succeed? no
Is what he is saying based on facts? no

He is here to destroy bitshares not build it up.

The fact that he is putting this much effort into trying to detract people from supporting it is evidence in itself of it being a threat to his desire to see bitshares go under rather than go to the moon. This project will drive liquidity into the bitassets markets that are much needed.

I have provided all the information needed for people to make informed decisions based on facts several times over. I recommend referencing the links provided again if you haven't yet.

What was not a fact?

Here is fact that everyone would agree with; you don't deserve multiple delegates while the developers only get 1 each.

I didn't start this thread by the way. Oh, and I want Bitshares to succeed. I just want Bitshares from a year ago to succeed. I hold my few shares and hope with doubts that the current incarnation will be a success. You guys continue to put major hurdles in front of you. And by "you guys" I don't mean you. You have no impact in the success of Bitshares now or ever.

that was not said with the intention of making data feel good about himself.

Seriously though.  The intentional baiting in that post tells you all you need to know about newmine and his intentions.

While sometimes I agree with him, and sometimes he has good points, those points are always negative abd he never offers a solution for going forward. He is more interested in being proven right than in being right.  In short he is a troll.

"The intentional baiting in that post tells you all you need to know about newmine and his intentions." I offered up serious propositions which everyone should examine and analyze and I get called a FUDster because of it and I am the one baiting? The only thing I said that you should have taken out of this was, is data nodes ability to draw users in worth the current $700 a week or could that money be put to better use in order to bring users in?  Nobody even responded to that saying, "hey, data node brings in X amount of new users every week, so he is worth $700 per week and worth $615 more than any of the Devs per week"

Here is a quick recap of what just went down:

DatNode: hey everyone,  I need funds to make an esoteric bicycle to bring users over to Bitshares Hill Valley.
Newmine: hey everyone,  why don't we direct funds to build a car, bus, or train get users over to Bitshares  Hill Valley
DatNode: Newmines a FUDster!
Newmine: why am I a FUDster. Your bicycle idea is flawed and not worth the cost.  Especially since most users are walking here by themselves on accident. Also, The people building the destination for your bicycle route make 1/8 what you are getting.
Puppies: Newmines a troll and never offers solutions. don't listen to him.

2 of my posts in this thread offer solutions "for going forward". If I am a troll for saying that, you're a lying pos.

Datnode: "I need a truck and some to tools build a road(liquidity) for future cars and bikes. I will sell the truck when i'm done."
newmine: "Why you want a truck when we can buy cars and bikes now"
Datnode: "You wanna buy car and bikes and no roads? That's a parking lot. "

[NewMine]

mining  user of bitUSD
is they worth  7 100% delegate?

Really? A FUDer makes stuff up and you are +5ing them?

How many mining pools has he run? zero
Does he want to see bitshares succeed? no
Is what he is saying based on facts? no

He is here to destroy bitshares not build it up.

The fact that he is putting this much effort into trying to detract people from supporting it is evidence in itself of it being a threat to his desire to see bitshares go under rather than go to the moon. This project will drive liquidity into the bitassets markets that are much needed.

I have provided all the information needed for people to make informed decisions based on facts several times over. I recommend referencing the links provided again if you haven't yet.

What was not a fact?

Here is fact that everyone would agree with; you don't deserve multiple delegates while the developers only get 1 each.

I didn't start this thread by the way. Oh, and I want Bitshares to succeed. I just want Bitshares from a year ago to succeed. I hold my few shares and hope with doubts that the current incarnation will be a success. You guys continue to put major hurdles in front of you. And by "you guys" I don't mean you. You have no impact in the success of Bitshares now or ever.

that was not said with the intention of making data feel good about himself.

Seriously though.  The intentional baiting in that post tells you all you need to know about newmine and his intentions.

While sometimes I agree with him, and sometimes he has good points, those points are always negative abd he never offers a solution for going forward. He is more interested in being proven right than in being right.  In short he is a troll.

"The intentional baiting in that post tells you all you need to know about newmine and his intentions." I offered up serious propositions which everyone should examine and analyze and I get called a FUDster because of it and I am the one baiting? The only thing I said that you should have taken out of this was, is data nodes ability to draw users in worth the current $700 a week or could that money be put to better use in order to bring users in?  Nobody even responded to that saying, "hey, data node brings in X amount of new users every week, so he is worth $700 per week and worth $615 more than any of the Devs per week"

Here is a quick recap of what just went down:

DatNode: hey everyone,  I need funds to make an esoteric bicycle to bring users over to Bitshares Hill Valley.
Newmine: hey everyone,  why don't we direct funds to build a car, bus, or train get users over to Bitshares  Hill Valley
DatNode: Newmines a FUDster!
Newmine: why am I a FUDster. Your bicycle idea is flawed and not worth the cost.  Especially since most users are walking here by themselves on accident. Also, The people building the destination for your bicycle route make 1/8 what you are getting.
Puppies: Newmines a troll and never offers solutions. don't listen to him.

2 of my posts in this thread offer solutions "for going forward". If I am a troll for saying that, you're a lying pos.

[Tuck Fheman]

In short he is a troll.

I really wish that term would die. 

I kind of see it as a cop-out last resort cluster bomb thrown out to draw the attention of like minded individuals to attack a differing opinion ... or rather to attack the person with the differing opinion because the opinion can't really be attacked because it's based on truth.

It's been used against our account many times elsewhere when we raised red flags (that were all true and proven to be true later by others) within a community.

Newmine, keep doing what you do man.

[puppies]

mining  user of bitUSD
is they worth  7 100% delegate?

Really? A FUDer makes stuff up and you are +5ing them?

How many mining pools has he run? zero
Does he want to see bitshares succeed? no
Is what he is saying based on facts? no

He is here to destroy bitshares not build it up.

The fact that he is putting this much effort into trying to detract people from supporting it is evidence in itself of it being a threat to his desire to see bitshares go under rather than go to the moon. This project will drive liquidity into the bitassets markets that are much needed.

I have provided all the information needed for people to make informed decisions based on facts several times over. I recommend referencing the links provided again if you haven't yet.

What was not a fact?

Here is fact that everyone would agree with; you don't deserve multiple delegates while the developers only get 1 each.

I didn't start this thread by the way. Oh, and I want Bitshares to succeed. I just want Bitshares from a year ago to succeed. I hold my few shares and hope with doubts that the current incarnation will be a success. You guys continue to put major hurdles in front of you. And by "you guys" I don't mean you. You have no impact in the success of Bitshares now or ever.

that was not said with the intention of making data feel good about himself.

Seriously though.  The intentional baiting in that post tells you all you need to know about newmine and his intentions.

While sometimes I agree with him, and sometimes he has good points, those points are always negative abd he never offers a solution for going forward.  He is more interested in being proven right than in being right.  In short he is a troll.

[NewMine]

mining  user of bitUSD
is they worth  7 100% delegate?

Really? A FUDer makes stuff up and you are +5ing them?

How many mining pools has he run? zero
Does he want to see bitshares succeed? no
Is what he is saying based on facts? no

He is here to destroy bitshares not build it up.

The fact that he is putting this much effort into trying to detract people from supporting it is evidence in itself of it being a threat to his desire to see bitshares go under rather than go to the moon. This project will drive liquidity into the bitassets markets that are much needed.

I have provided all the information needed for people to make informed decisions based on facts several times over. I recommend referencing the links provided again if you haven't yet.

What was not a fact?

Here is fact that everyone would agree with; you don't deserve multiple delegates while the developers only get 1 each.

I didn't start this thread by the way. Oh, and I want Bitshares to succeed. I just want Bitshares from a year ago to succeed. I hold my few shares and hope with doubts that the current incarnation will be a success. You guys continue to put major hurdles in front of you. And by "you guys" I don't mean you. You have no impact in the success of Bitshares now or ever.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

mining  user of bitUSD
is they worth  7 100% delegate?

Really? A FUDer makes stuff up and you are +5ing them?

How many mining pools has he run? zero
Does he want to see bitshares succeed? no
Is what he is saying based on facts? no

He is here to destroy bitshares not build it up.

The fact that he is putting this much effort into trying to detract people from supporting it is evidence in itself of it being a threat to his desire to see bitshares go under rather than go to the moon. This project will drive liquidity into the bitassets markets that are much needed.

I have provided all the information needed for people to make informed decisions based on facts several times over. I recommend referencing the links provided again if you haven't yet.

[sudo]

mining  user of bitUSD
is they worth  7 100% delegate?

[sudo]

Guys,  the points of my post are:

1. You are fishing for users out of a jar in a small pond.  Meaning you are recruiting users from a small subset within a smaller subset within an even smaller subset of users. This is not efficient.

2. If mining is so necessary, why is everyone so quick to bash POW as a waste of money. You are justifying mining to build the network but not secure it.

3. If you think this project justifies more delegates (he actually has 8 )than the developers get, then you guys have some problems in weighing priorities.

You're not going to catch a whale or a bunch of sardines out if a jar in a pond. Go to the ocean. Use these funds for things that have a higher probability of drawing in a Bitshares user.

Also,you should check out minebitshares. Most if the payout goes to 2or 3 large farms. Wouldn't be surprised if bunker data node owns one. It's cool that you want to subsidize large mining ops, but I simply ask you, is the few users they bring in worth $700 in BTS per week? Or is there a chance that $700 could be re aligned for something better. I bet if you randomly gave away $50 in BTS to two people a day, it would bring more users in than mining pools

To Newmines point, 4 of 5 of my ASIC's have died over the past months and I'm not buying any more. 

Yeah, I sold my ASIC's over a year and half ago. Ad-aware on one computer wanted to scrub a bunch of my mining programs and I allowed it. Mining is dying. Or at least it is fading.  The obscure crap coins will eventually dry up on exchanges, and the the other coins difficulty will continue to rise. These two things make the future usefulness of a mining pool to bring in new users worthless. You are buying stock in blockbuster 6 years ago.

 

[NewMine]

Guys,  the points of my post are:

1. You are fishing for users out of a jar in a small pond.  Meaning you are recruiting users from a small subset within a smaller subset within an even smaller subset of users. This is not efficient.

2. If mining is so necessary, why is everyone so quick to bash POW as a waste of money. You are justifying mining to build the network but not secure it.

3. If you think this project justifies more delegates (he actually has 8 )than the developers get, then you guys have some problems in weighing priorities.

You're not going to catch a whale or a bunch of sardines out if a jar in a pond. Go to the ocean. Use these funds for things that have a higher probability of drawing in a Bitshares user.

Also,you should check out minebitshares. Most if the payout goes to 2or 3 large farms. Wouldn't be surprised if bunker data node owns one. It's cool that you want to subsidize large mining ops, but I simply ask you, is the few users they bring in worth $700 in BTS per week? Or is there a chance that $700 could be re aligned for something better. I bet if you randomly gave away $50 in BTS to two people a day, it would bring more users in than mining pools

To Newmines point, 4 of 5 of my ASIC's have died over the past months and I'm not buying any more. 

Yeah, I sold my ASIC's over a year and half ago. Ad-aware on one computer wanted to scrub a bunch of my mining programs and I allowed it. Mining is dying. Or at least it is fading.  The obscure crap coins will eventually dry up on exchanges, and the the other coins difficulty will continue to rise. These two things make the future usefulness of a mining pool to bring in new users worthless. You are buying stock in blockbuster 6 years ago.