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Quote from: Markus on February 12, 2014, 12:45:53 amSo, now the cost of BTSX is 2$ a share at most (AGS funding via BTC).Toast has pledged to prop it up to at least 5$. (I would probably do the same)That's a 150 % gain in 4 weeks with the only risk being bytemaster & Co. doing the runner with 3 million $ worth in Angel funding Has everybody run out of BTC or why are Angelshares so cheap at the moment?you mean cheap compared to their future value or cheap compared to what they were 2 weeks ago?
So, now the cost of BTSX is 2$ a share at most (AGS funding via BTC).Toast has pledged to prop it up to at least 5$. (I would probably do the same)That's a 150 % gain in 4 weeks with the only risk being bytemaster & Co. doing the runner with 3 million $ worth in Angel funding Has everybody run out of BTC or why are Angelshares so cheap at the moment?
Quote from: bytemaster on February 12, 2014, 08:45:03 amQuoteHappily coding away on unforeseen problems that come with the concept of a distributed exchange.As I don't have time to follow everything every where, I would love to know what problems they have encountered.how much time it will take to make a snapshot on Feb 28th? 30 minutes?and as i know the snapshot will be done on 00:00 Feb 28th,right? but which time zone?
QuoteHappily coding away on unforeseen problems that come with the concept of a distributed exchange.As I don't have time to follow everything every where, I would love to know what problems they have encountered.
Happily coding away on unforeseen problems that come with the concept of a distributed exchange.
Which is nice of course for the fools that burned their money away
That's a 150 % gain in 4 weeks with the only risk being bytemaster & Co. doing the runner with 3 million $ worth in Angel funding
Quote from: Markus on February 12, 2014, 12:45:53 amToast has pledged to prop it up to at least 5$. (I would probably do the same)"Pledge" to "prop" only makes sense with enough BTS, and I'm making no claims about BTS holdings
Toast has pledged to prop it up to at least 5$. (I would probably do the same)
Is anyone considering the risk that this release is a test and might be reset any time?What are your thoughts on the probability of that happening?
Quote from: Mrrr on February 11, 2014, 03:45:56 pmmy 5%:I just received a newsletter from Ethereum that didn't contain the news that was promised. IPO still postponed until further notice.Counterparty is doing a great job at its Alpha release. Happily coding away on unforeseen problems that come with the concept of a distributed exchange. I'm quite sure the III team is watching and learning. XCP meanwhile is selling at 5x the IPO price. Which is nice of course for the fools that burned their money away, but also tells us the community is still very much anticipating DEX' advent. While Counterparty is the first functional DEX its very far from a finished product.IDK where MSC and NXT are at at the moment but I think that should III manage to release a coherent, functional and user friendly DEX within the next 2-3 months or so you need not worry on the ROI of your Angelshares. Funding crypto IPO's is a very high risk business, and the market tends to reward bravery rather generously (NXT, MSC, XCP all made a minimum 500% ROI directly after the IPO).Considering that all DEX related cryptos went through the Mt. Gox crash without a glimpse I don't really see where this could go wrong other than Bytemaster ODing on Twinkies and Mountain Dew.IMO, PTS/AGS has provided us with some price discovery for bitshares or at least a better idea of where it will begin trading. The offerings you mention didn't really have any. MSC and XCP are trading well below where it opened. People were buying XCP for .01 on the first day and now you can pay around .005. Same with MSC and the price is still falling.
my 5%:I just received a newsletter from Ethereum that didn't contain the news that was promised. IPO still postponed until further notice.Counterparty is doing a great job at its Alpha release. Happily coding away on unforeseen problems that come with the concept of a distributed exchange. I'm quite sure the III team is watching and learning. XCP meanwhile is selling at 5x the IPO price. Which is nice of course for the fools that burned their money away, but also tells us the community is still very much anticipating DEX' advent. While Counterparty is the first functional DEX its very far from a finished product.IDK where MSC and NXT are at at the moment but I think that should III manage to release a coherent, functional and user friendly DEX within the next 2-3 months or so you need not worry on the ROI of your Angelshares. Funding crypto IPO's is a very high risk business, and the market tends to reward bravery rather generously (NXT, MSC, XCP all made a minimum 500% ROI directly after the IPO).Considering that all DEX related cryptos went through the Mt. Gox crash without a glimpse I don't really see where this could go wrong other than Bytemaster ODing on Twinkies and Mountain Dew.
$5-10 first few days, no investor will sell at negative ROI
Quote from: jae208 on January 25, 2014, 06:43:28 pmWhat do you think the price of a single Bitshare will be once it is launched?How did you reach this conclusion?After 4 pages this thread has received exactly two answers to the initial question.Come on guys, its only a couple of weeks til the launch of Bitshare XT. Let's start a proper prediction (market):johncitizen: 15 $Giga: 200 $and now me: 5 $
What do you think the price of a single Bitshare will be once it is launched?How did you reach this conclusion?
Quote from: JakeThePanda on February 03, 2014, 07:21:56 pmQuote from: Giga on February 03, 2014, 06:35:02 pmMy hope and expectation is for each Bitshare to be worth about $200 on launchYou're going to be disappointed. Let's think about this. If they will be worth that much, than the price of PTS would be through the roof right now. Look at where PTS is trading. It will be worth less.Sometimes weird stuff happens.For example yesterday you could burn 1 BTC to have 1 000 XCP. Today trades happen at 100 XCP @ 1BTC, just because the burn period is over.I also think that 200$ is too optimistic, but I don't think that PTS price is a good indicator. Who knows what might happen once people realize that Bitshares supply is fixed.
Quote from: Giga on February 03, 2014, 06:35:02 pmMy hope and expectation is for each Bitshare to be worth about $200 on launchYou're going to be disappointed. Let's think about this. If they will be worth that much, than the price of PTS would be through the roof right now. Look at where PTS is trading. It will be worth less.
My hope and expectation is for each Bitshare to be worth about $200 on launch
Quote from: JakeThePanda on February 03, 2014, 07:21:56 pmQuote from: Giga on February 03, 2014, 06:35:02 pmMy hope and expectation is for each Bitshare to be worth about $200 on launchYou're going to be disappointed. Let's think about this. If they will be worth that much, than the price of PTS would be through the roof right now. Look at where PTS is trading. It will be worth less.Pts is severely undervalued atm, it will gain its real value once people witness III projects blossoming. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Having looked at the topics... Regarding questions like "is Jesus the Son of God?" (if that is a question that is derived from the topic "Jesus is the Son of God"): The truth you will find there will be 1000 perspectives always depending on your assumptions and the perspective from which you ask this question. The stated goal here should be exchanging perspectives / understanding each other and not finding the truth because the question as such is as such that there can not be an answer to it. Also questions often imply a lot of assumptions already... Those questions have been debated in scientific and in non scientific arenas and probably millions of pages worth reading have been written about it. So I would see such a project not as a means to finally come to a conclusion but it can serve to organize debates better (and show who has which financial ties etc. in order to put things in perspective) and make them more accessibly. If applied right there might be a scientific use. Something like: Summarizing papers I have written that answer a question and then put a link on the respective canonizer sub-page referring to this link.
Requiring people to use their real world identities also might have disadvantages and limitations
I like your project!
Quote from: delulo on February 01, 2014, 12:37:39 pmThe camps seem like a realistic approach to me that reflects the ambiguity of reality perception but labeling it as a sure way to finally find "the truth" doesn't reflect this realismNo! I continuously point out that Canonizer.com has nothing to do with "the truth". You quote that as if I said or "labeled" it as "the truth"?Canonizer.com is only building and measuring for consensus, and for what people currently think they want, concisely, quantitatively, and in real time - nothing more.
The camps seem like a realistic approach to me that reflects the ambiguity of reality perception but labeling it as a sure way to finally find "the truth" doesn't reflect this realism
The goal of Canonizer.com isn't to get to any "Truth".
Haven't digged much into it... But what makes canonizer different from wikipedia?
I hear and understand all the pros for removing uncertainty.But don't forget that you'll have troubles motivating people to get involved in a test that doesn't count. I'd have troubles getting motivated to be involved, and there is no way it would be anywhere close to the real thing test.Another problem is, if one person makes the decision to start all over, you'll surely make some people mad, and lose their trust, and possibly their participation.If you used a canonization survey process to find out, concisely and quantitatively, what everyone thinks, and let everyone provide input if they wanted, all crowd sourcing informing an expert decision of whether you should restart, or not, you could not only find out concisely and quantitatively, just how many people you'll piss off, and why, but you'll significantly reduce the number of people that would be pissed off, because everyone would better know, sooner, why a particular decision was being made.Heck, it may take more than one restart to get things right. And if the entire crowd agrees that a 3rd restart was better for everyone, making such a decision would be all the more easy.
So why say that "maybe we will make a new snapshot" at all? You might as well commit to that snapshot and re-launch the chain with the same allocation if anything breaks
Quote from: CLains on January 30, 2014, 10:49:45 am2. It will be more important that the product publicized to the public is working properly and is secure. A public scandal will be the worst possible outcome.yes, this !According to dan's last update he should have consensus mechanism done by the end of this week which means it's *possible* we'll have an MVP with time to try to break it before feb ~20 but the thought of the masses buying in only to find shit doesn't work as advertised is a bad thought and makes me nervous
2. It will be more important that the product publicized to the public is working properly and is secure. A public scandal will be the worst possible outcome.
We made it pretty public in Miami... Dan even interrupted happy hour to announce it.
Good work Brent.Allsop! I agree with you that Invictus needs to get the word out lest they be accused of secrecy like NXT was. The NXT cloning that is currently going on is clearly in the spirit of spite against the percieved secrecy of the initial funding.To avoid this Invictus needs to inform everyone about the time and date of the snapshot, as it may be the official one for Bitshares X.At least 10 days in advance there should be:News articles at coindesk and related cryptocurrency news outlets.Huge threads at Bitcointalk.org, NXT forums, and other major forums....As Brent points out, this need not be a propaganda campaign. We just need to inform people that this is the first Test Chain, and that it may be the official Chain, and that help is appreciated, and that this is how you get involved, etc.Arguments against Brent and myself:1. It won't be the last Bitshares chain, as Invictus will keep releasing new chains and keep rewarding PTS/AGS holders with a stake. People don't miss out on a "final" everything.2. It will be more important that the product publicized to the public is working properly and is secure. A public scandal will be the worst possible outcome....
[…] Not only are there drastically fewer Bitshares, […]
Exactly... we will not start our major marketing push until we have it battle hardened.
Ethereum is an interesting academic exercise and a great way for people to explore the DAC space, but anything worthwhile that can be made into a "true" DAC will be cloned, made more profitable and scalable, and made to honor PTS =D
But yes BTS blows all altcoins out of the water, the only advantage BTC has is confidence in the code. I think we shouldn't be in a rush to market until the code is battle-hardened a bit
Quote from: Brent.Allsop on January 29, 2014, 01:21:04 pmCan any expert out there make any justified argument that says Bitshares will not surpass Lite coin, Bitcoin, and every other coin out there, in a big way? Is there any other investment out there that is better than, or even close to Bitshares? Isn't Etherium about to start something similar? How does it compare? Others?Brent AllsopEthereum is an interesting academic exercise and a great way for people to explore the DAC space, but anything worthwhile that can be made into a "true" DAC will be cloned, made more profitable and scalable, and made to honor PTS =DBut yes BTS blows all altcoins out of the water, the only advantage BTC has is confidence in the code. I think we shouldn't be in a rush to market until the code is battle-hardened a bit
Can any expert out there make any justified argument that says Bitshares will not surpass Lite coin, Bitcoin, and every other coin out there, in a big way? Is there any other investment out there that is better than, or even close to Bitshares? Isn't Etherium about to start something similar? How does it compare? Others?Brent Allsop
Quote from: Markus on January 29, 2014, 04:09:22 amQuote from: Brent.Allsop on January 28, 2014, 02:31:14 pm*[…] Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?Ask that guy who donates 10 BTC nearly every day How do you know this? Is this information visible someplace publicly?I'd like to put a lot more into Bitshares, but not sure the best way to do it.
Quote from: Brent.Allsop on January 28, 2014, 02:31:14 pm*[…] Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?Ask that guy who donates 10 BTC nearly every day
*[…] Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?
When Invictus deliver, even owning a handful of bitshares will prove rewarding. There is much to accomplish but I believe in Invictus. Using the PTS and AGS price, I estimate they are currently around 15 USD. In my opinion they are severely undervalued.On launch I will not be surprised by $100+ USD.
Folks,I still have a few questions about this valuation information:* When will Bitshares start trading, and could this be delayed?
* Will protoshares cease to exist at that time, having been converted to Bitshares?
* As far as people that really understand this stuff, what is your target position for how much you be your target holdings?. For example when the funding round closes, what percentage of your capital will be Bitcoin vs protoshares vs angel shares? Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?
* Will the security of Bitshares be equal to the Mining of Bitcoin?
* Once the financing round closes in a few months, would, or could there ever be any more Bitshares put into the economy?
* Still struggling to understand who is paying this Bitshare interest. What controls how much this will be? Will it be the amount if interest and activity in futures contracts?
Folks,I still have a few questions about this valuation information:* When will Bitshares start trading, and could this be delayed?* Will protoshares cease to exist at that time, having been converted to Bitshares?* As far as people that really understand this stuff, what is your target position for how much you be your target holdings?. For example when the funding round closes, what percentage of your capital will be Bitcoin vs protoshares vs angel shares? Is anyone going mostly all in with angel shares?* Will the security of Bitshares be equal to the Mining of Bitcoin?* Once the financing round closes in a few months, would, or could there ever be any more Bitshares put into the economy?* Still struggling to understand who is paying this Bitshare interest. What controls how much this will be? Will it be the amount if interest and activity in futures contracts?Thanks!Brent Allsop
Quote from: Graffenwalder on January 27, 2014, 05:39:09 pmQuote from: jae208 on January 27, 2014, 01:05:01 pmWhat about the exchange rate of BTS to BTC? Does anybody want to speculate on what that may be?Please correct if wrong.Before the AGS funding round PTS was traded at 0.03 BTC, then every PTS would be awarded with 1 BTS. And there would be 20 million. You mean 4 million BTS
Quote from: jae208 on January 27, 2014, 01:05:01 pmWhat about the exchange rate of BTS to BTC? Does anybody want to speculate on what that may be?Please correct if wrong.Before the AGS funding round PTS was traded at 0.03 BTC, then every PTS would be awarded with 1 BTS. And there would be 20 million.
What about the exchange rate of BTS to BTC? Does anybody want to speculate on what that may be?
Quote from: jae208 on January 27, 2014, 01:05:01 pmWhat about the exchange rate of BTS to BTC? Does anybody want to speculate on what that may be?Please correct if wrong.Before the AGS funding round PTS was traded at 0.03 BTC, then every PTS would be awarded with 1 BTS. And there would be 20 million. The average daily BTC donation, prices AGS under 0.01BTC. So not taking in to account that BTS is more scarce, and assuming BTS release would take 200 days (unlikely) This would be a factor 3 ROI. This is a very low estimation, but I don't like to be over optimistic with investments. Also BTS should be considered the first dividend payout. There will be multiple BTS chains and DAC's which should pay at least 10% to the AGS holders.
Quote from: trader on January 25, 2014, 11:09:14 pmThe argument that is always made is against merchants accepting Bitcoin for payment is its volatility.What no one is talking about yet is that Bitshares solves this problem - merchants can simply accept BitUSD as payment (and receive a great 5% interest on all their sales deposits).Perhaps you just need one big merchant to do this, and who knows what could happen to the price...I agree. I feel that to be able to use BitCurrencies for everyday payment is the key. But it depends on legality and that will be o big problem.
The argument that is always made is against merchants accepting Bitcoin for payment is its volatility.What no one is talking about yet is that Bitshares solves this problem - merchants can simply accept BitUSD as payment (and receive a great 5% interest on all their sales deposits).Perhaps you just need one big merchant to do this, and who knows what could happen to the price...
Idk, if BitShare is actually Bitshares AGS and Protshares merged (4M in total thus) I would say it would be worth what that bitshare respesent.I readed before they wanted to implent bGold, where one bGold would be worth 1 oZ of gold if it would follow the market price.Therefore its hard to say, but I think I will supprass litecoin because of divident system and there will be only 4M in existance instead of 25M (if correct, again).