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Messages - 8bit

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31
General Discussion / Re: BitShares Status Update
« on: January 07, 2014, 08:52:16 am »
What's the best ETA for Bitshares? I heard bytemaster say he's going to go in a cave for two weeks, but the change from POW to POS would mean a complete rework of the system. AngelShares gives them some money to get more coders, but all those people will need to be trained or caught up. I'm figuring we might be looking at around 6 months to a BitShares release. Especially since the security people still have to comb through everything. Does anyone have better estimates?

Bump.  Same, Estimated ETA would be great.

I concur. What is the approximate release date, tentatively?

I will have a working command line alpha wallet + blockchain algorithm this month.  I just checked in code that generates bids and short positions as well as transfers and builds a block chain.   I have to implement the bid/ask matching engine which I will have roughed in this week.   Now that I am focused entirely on this I hope to make rapid progress and will report in to this thread every day with my progress.

I'm asking mainly for two reasons:

1,  Gives me time to buy more PTS and plan ahead
2,  Setup more hardware for mining BTS.

Even if you said 6 month or 1 year then its something for me to work towards?

Ta
BTS won't be mined, just so you are aware. It's just AGS and PTS now.

How will this work, exactly? How it the security of the blockchain maintained, who processes transactions, and how is the economy inflated?

32
I'm not sure if I understand what's being discussed. Did I miss something from bytemaster? Does he want to create a PTS2.0 or something?

33
General Discussion / Re: The Hive
« on: December 15, 2013, 10:20:11 am »
http://piratebrowser.com

Interesting development

PirateBrowser is cool, but it's a bandaid, unfortunately. All it does is allow people in countries where the TPB IP has been blocked to access TPB by routing through the Tor network. If blocking TPB became popular, it would lose its effectiveness as there would be very few suitable exit nodes.

34
General Discussion / The Hive
« on: December 13, 2013, 05:00:46 am »
I find the concept behind datacoin to be really interesting, but I feel it has a bit of a problem. A blockchain is a very clunky way to store rich, human consumable data. Even storing a short book is a daunting task for something like datacoin, storing a whole album, film, or video game is ridiculous. Everyone who uses datacoin would have to download every film, game, etc... that anyone wants to share! What if we leveraged the power of an existing decentralized technology to do the heavy lifting for us?

BitTorrent is a much better protocol for distributing data than a cryptocoin. Instead of using a monolithic blockchain that everyone needs to have a copy of, only the people interested in a file need to worry about it. Unfortunately, BitTorrent has a bit of a problem. Though the underlying technology is decentralized, it has been impossible to completely decentralize data transaction in BitTorrent.

There has certainly been progress, don't get me wrong. In the old days, centralized websites had to host .torrent files- files that would link to a tracker (a centralized server), which would connect new members of the swarm to other members. Today, recent breakthroughs in distributed hash tables have lead to a less centralized way of doing things. Rather than using a centralized tracker users obtain magnet links which are like IDs for torrents. Each member of the BitTorrent network holds a hash table containing the IPs of a small number of nodes on the network. The user with the magnet link sends a request through the network by sending it to one of the IPs listed in her hash table. That node does the same thing, and so on, until a node which is a member of the correct swarm is discovered. This cuts the tracker out of the equation, but there is still a need for a centralized database of magnet link listings. This is why sites like The Pirate Bay still exist. The Pirate Bay is not a tracker anymore, but it's still needed to find the actual magnet links. Still, this is a huge improvement. Now TPB no longer needs to manage the individual users in a swarm, now its only purpose is serving up static information. This means that other users can make backups of TPB, and use those backups to find magnet links. The more people with up to date backups, the less centralized TPB's listings are. And if everyone has an up to date copy of the TPB database...

That's where the blockchain comes in. I think the blockchain may be the final puzzle piece in distributed and decentralized file transfer. The blockchain is, effectively, a database that everyone has, and where new information propagate through the network very quickly. A blockchain is limited in that old data is read only, but that will be fine for our purposes, as most of our blockchain data will be static and/or simple. My idea is that the blockchain would list, not just transactions broadcast to the network, but also magnet links and metadata about the magnet links. (title, description, tags, etc...) A user who wants to download a torrent would search his blockchain for the magnet link, broadcast the link to the BitTorrent node network, locate the torrent's swarm, join the swarm, and download/share the file from/with the swarm.

Like any chain, when blocks are mined a certain number of coins are released to the miner. Much like with datacoins, these coins can be spent to include new data in the blockchain. As the amount of information contained in the magnet link itself is very small, the cost to list a new link should also be very small. To illustrate how small magnet links are and how cheap storing them in a blockchain would be, consider this: If we decided to store all of the data on the pirate bay on the datacoin chain it would cost less than 10000 datacoins, including metadata but not comments. With around 1,700,000 torrents, that's around 0.006 datacoins per torrent.

In order to incentivize seeding, The Hive client sets a default badwidth cost, some arbitrary value, say, 0.0001 hivecoin/kb. A random Hive node is chosen to act as an escrow agent, which receives a large chunk of the payment all at once (Say, 10MB worth) along with the transaction fee, and a small escrow fee. The leacher starts compiling a table that details all of the data he's received. At certain arbitrary intervals, say, once every ten minutes, the table is sent to the escrow detailing all of the data transactions. The escrow releases funds accordingly. If the escrow never receives the table, or if there is extra left over at the end then the escrow keeps the extra.

As the blockchain is aware of all messages to the escrow, there is no risk of the escrow running off with the coin. The blockchain simply moves around the escrow funds on its own. Pending escrow funds wouldn't even show up in an escrow's wallet until some arbitrary and long period of time has passed during which the blockchain has not received contact from the leacher. The escrow service could even be used to reward network nodes, something that bitcoin doesn't manage to do.

In summary, this is an idea for an altchain which completely decentralizes file sharing by creating a listing of torrent magnet links within the blockchain. This replaces the need for centralized listings like The Pirate Bay. The Hive also incentivises seeding which keeps swarms healthy, and incentivises running a chain node which keeps the network healthy.

Possible modifications:

  • Would it be possible for users to issue corrections to inaccurately titled or tagged listings by adding new data to the next block being mined which lists a set of changes and points to the block containing the incorrect listing? Could this be used to rate and comment on torrents? Could this be used to put an updated number of seeders/leachers for every listing in the newest block of the blockchain?

Possible alternatives:

  • As mentioned, datacoin attempts to do a similar thing, but in a more generalized sense. The Hive could effectively lie within the datacoin blockchain, however, the issue with that is that then every user has to put up with every item added to the blockchain. So if someone buys space for a film, everyone has to host that film forever. The Datacoin developers seem to want to go in this direction, encouraging users to set up wallets dedicated to particular large data files and ask for donations in order to get them added to the blockchain. My idea would only allow for torrent magnet links and metadata, so the blockchain would stay slim, and large files could get listed for very cheap. Datacoin does hold the advantage that it immortalizes data, whereas torrents can die if all of the seeders disappear.
  • Freenet attempts to do a similar thing, but it is on the other extreme from datacoin. Rather than storing all of the information locally on the blockchain, all of the information is distributed throughout the entire network. This offers an advantage in that no blockchain ever needs to be downloaded, however, it also carries the disadvantage that it is very slow because information can be located anywhere on the network. Compare to a blockchain where no Internet access is required to retrieve the file, and to torrents where users interested in the same files are organized into decentralized swarms.

Potential issues:

  • If seeding is not incentivized then the blockchain would be technically superfluous. This isn't really an issue, but it's something to think about, as other types of distributed databases might be better suited for this project. That said, datacoin is already very technically similar to what I'm describing, so development may be more rapid as an altchain than as a different type of database.
  • The blockchain would store not just magnet links and metadata, but also a ledger of all Hive transactions. If we used a different type of distributed database which did not track a currency of any sort, then the database size would be much, much smaller. In fact, the actual magnet links would take up a minority of space compared to the transaction ledger. We're talking MB vs. GB, a difference that is several orders of magnitude large. One solution to this is the creation of a litewallet which only holds the magnet links and recent transactions. This type of wallet would only be a few MBs large, but it wouldn't be able to act as a node. Multibit takes this strategy.
  • The blockchain does not allow for older data to be overwritten. Like I've said earlier, this isn't too much of an issue as magnet links are static data, but it would be nice for tags, descriptions, etc... Also, it would be nice to be able to remove some older magnet links which don't have swarms any more. There are ways around this, but they involve bloating the blockchain even more. Rather than overwriting data, you must include both the new data and every old version of the data in the blockchain.

I'm mostly looking for feedback, here. How hard would it be to include the possible modifications I listed? How hard would the base implementation be? Are there any caveats (technical or economic) that I'm missing? Etc...

35
General Discussion / Re: BitShare investing/trading
« on: December 12, 2013, 07:06:45 am »
I find the benefits of holding BitUSD or any other BitAsset over simply holding onto BitShares rather confusing.

By this I mean; if I assume the value of BitShares will appreciate over time against fiat: would it be better to buy long on a particular BitAsset, or simply hold onto the BitShares.

I understand the benefits of buying BitAssets in order to speculate.

For this aspect of Bitshares, the advantage of holding a Bitasset instead of Bitshares is that whenever you buy long on a Bitasset, someone else has to short the same Bitasset. They give up their dividends on the collateral they used on the Bitasset, and the people who bought long get to collect those extra dividends.

As for how to get the maximum value from Bitshares in the first few months, my best advice is to pay attention to the final plans for Bitshares. Bytemaster has suggested several plans for Bitshares, from a six month waiting period for mining rewards to mature, to proof of stake instead of proof of work mining. Not all of these plans will actually be implemented, but you should keep an eye on them. Then, when Bitshares are about to be released, you should look at what's actually going to be used, and make your own market predictions from there.

... and we will probably release an iteration or two of "testshares" so you can experiment with it before you begin playing for "keeps".

How do you plan to prevent testshares from competing with bitshares?

36
General Discussion / Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« on: December 09, 2013, 10:48:21 pm »
So how long (approximately) before the launch of bitshares will the protoshares block that bitshares is forked from be mined?

37
I might dive into this after my finals are over. We'll see.

If it isn't already completed by then, of course.

38
BitShares PTS / Re: NEW ProtoShares Logo
« on: December 04, 2013, 03:56:44 am »
I went ahead and flattened the 3D logo completely, and added a bunch of color swaps. I like the blue for protoshares, but it might make sense to have bitshares be in another color?:


39
Keyhotee / Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« on: December 01, 2013, 02:24:43 am »
Ohhh god..  Come on dude, you know what I'm about to say:  Let me rephrase..

Tor is an open source company and servers are in different locations (proxies) meaning its NOT IN YOUR control.  Data is stored on them proxies (logs).  Meaning accessible with allot of push if needed.  Which is what I meant above.  Its still central because YOU do not have control!!!

Keyhotee is ON YOUR PC encrypted on a blockchain.  No one can access it but you.  Proxy somewhere vs your control?  Emmmm  which will I pick?

That is not what 'centralized' means, and Tor is not centralized. Tor is a network of over four thousand decentralized nodes operated by different people all over the world. The idea behind Tor is that logs won't matter because Tor pushes connections through multiple relays. An exit node will be able to tell what the last relay was in a connection, but can not trace the connection back further than that. In order to reveal someone's identity, you would have to compromise every node between the individual and the exit node. To my knowledge, Tor itself has never actually been compromised in practice. Techniques used to take identify Tor users (javascript attacks and personally identifiable information) are not specific to Tor, have nothing to do with Tor itself, and are just as applicable to something like Keyhotee.

Quote
There is no need to install 4 different apps to make your semi freedom function (Tor, Freenet, I2P, Bit wallet).

These are all applications which do (roughly) the same thing. I'm worried Keyhotee is this: http://xkcd.com/927/

40
Keyhotee / Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« on: November 30, 2013, 06:43:51 pm »
Torrents are great, but they didn't catch on because they're good at legal sharing. (though they are) They caught on because they're good at illegal sharing.

However, we already have systems in place for this... GPG encrypted messages and networks like Tor, Freenet, I2P, etc... And at this point, Tor is getting pretty good at what it does. It's reasonably fast, and very easy to use.

Tor can't stop the government watching how much money you spend?  Or Tor isn't going to stop any official taking your financial assets?

No, but bitcoin + mixers can...

Quote
Like I said, torrents is just ONE example and its just scratching the surface.  Tor, Freenet, I2P is the same as any other central server based services.  You really think Tor is going to deny the government access to its logs if needed?  There is NO VPN anonymous service that will truly stop high-end governments from gaining access to your day to day internet activities.

Remember, Keyhotee is on a blockchain.

Tor, Freenet, and I2P are not centralized. Tor is a decentralized network of proxies, Freenet is a decentralized hosting network, and I2P is a protocol for secure friend to friend communications.

41
Keyhotee / Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« on: November 30, 2013, 01:14:11 pm »
Torrents are great, but they didn't catch on because they're good at legal sharing. (though they are) They caught on because they're good at illegal sharing.

However, we already have systems in place for this... GPG encrypted messages and networks like Tor, Freenet, I2P, etc... And at this point, Tor is getting pretty good at what it does. It's reasonably fast, and very easy to use.

42
Keyhotee / Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« on: November 30, 2013, 11:35:51 am »
That's all well and good, but the average person just doesn't give a shit about security. How many people use Facebook? How many people use Google instead of StartPage? StartPage offers almost the EXACT experience, and is actually discrete, however, the vast majority of people choose Google instead.

43
Keyhotee / What's the point of keyhotee?
« on: November 30, 2013, 01:17:25 am »
I already have a bitcoin wallet, and an email client, and and instant messenger, etc... and I can already access these all through one application: my web browser. I understand why decentralization is awesome, but it's really a moot point if no one is using it. So from the perspective of the end user- perhaps the average person who doesn't necessarily have a lot of computer knowhow and isn't necessarily interested in the philosophy of decentralization, what will Keyhotee offer?

Also, I feel like, for Keyhotee to catch on, regardless of how nice it is, it's going to have to get into the browser (maybe not initially, but it has to happen eventually), and it needs to launch with a less silly-sounding name. Are there any plans for web, and is keyhotee a code name or the final name?

EDIT: No disrespect intended. I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around this.

44
BitShares PTS / Re: Dying out
« on: November 28, 2013, 07:56:07 am »
IMO PTS is a VERY high risk investment even comparing to other altcoins, because a much higher percentage of PTS value is based on future promises.

But they are really good promises.
Why? There is a baseline already as just another alt-coin: it can't fall further than that, can it?

Protoshare is heavily inflated because of the promises associated with it. That's why its market cap got so high in such a short amount of time. If those promises fall through, then PTS' floor will fall to that of any other altcoin that isn't heavily watched.

By investing in PTS you're betting that Invictus will launch their products, and that their products will work and become successful.

Invictus says it is better to have a competitor. Investing pts is investing this idea, not the company.

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/dacs-that-spawn-dacs/

Sure, if there were actually any non-Invictus DACs forked from PTS. But there aren't, at least not yet.

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BitShares PTS / Re: Dying out
« on: November 28, 2013, 05:56:26 am »
IMO PTS is a VERY high risk investment even comparing to other altcoins, because a much higher percentage of PTS value is based on future promises.

But they are really good promises.
Why? There is a baseline already as just another alt-coin: it can't fall further than that, can it?

Protoshare is heavily inflated because of the promises associated with it. That's why its market cap got so high in such a short amount of time. If those promises fall through, then PTS' floor will fall to that of any other altcoin that isn't heavily watched.

By investing in PTS you're betting that Invictus will launch their products, and that their products will work and become successful.

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