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Messages - Come-from-Beyond

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16
General Discussion / Re: Potentially weak spots
« on: March 01, 2015, 08:30:13 am »
Quote
NXT forgers get delegated power expired eventually
I didn't understand this one.

In Nxt there is a way to "delegate" forging/mining power. But max period is limited to 3 weeks.

17
General Discussion / Re: Potentially weak spots
« on: March 01, 2015, 12:00:31 am »
1. The end goal is security. Fairness or representation in my opinion are not of value here. Everyone can participate which is fair enough. In the end, voting participation will depend on how easy it is to vote (client and voting / delegate infrastructure will have to get more user friendly) and on how much stake one has.

Ok, let's put this on hold. When I have time I'll show how this could be used for an attack.


2. Maybe I understand what you mean... Would you agree that in the same sense Bitcoin miners and NXT forgers also have that control over the blockchain (=communication channel)?

No. Because more miners can join Bitcoin and NXT forgers get delegated power expired eventually.


3. User arhag made a great post on that https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6638.0
You could challenge him in the above thread.
BM also made a post about such attacks http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/08/Nothing-at-Stake-Nothing-to-Fear/

Will do.

18
General Discussion / Re: Potentially weak spots
« on: February 28, 2015, 11:07:39 pm »
I'm curious as to what is coming to your mind when you say "separation of powers". What would you say that would be in your mind?

2 chains running in parallel where delegates of chain A include transactions that are unpleasant for delegates of chain B and vice versa.

19
General Discussion / Re: Potentially weak spots
« on: February 28, 2015, 11:05:35 pm »
I'd like to see 1. and 2. elaborated. The third is a weakness that's somewhat inherent in the system.

Look at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940298.msg10388364#msg10388364 for #1.
#2 is based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability. This concept is quite sophisticated, but common sense says the same - if delegates censor communications then they can remove what they don't like.

20
General Discussion / Re: Potentially weak spots
« on: February 28, 2015, 10:52:24 pm »
1. What is your design goal here? Make it more "democratic" (defined as what?)?
2. What do you mean here by "communication" and by "mean(s) of communication"?
3. What would be a situation that would lead to multiple chains/branches? Signing on more than one chain is a no1 reason for a delegate to be voted out. There is a great incentive for any delegate to always sign on the chain where most delegates sign blocks.
For this: "Voted-out delegates may generate a fake blockchain to trick newly connected nodes" -> What would be required to do this successfully?
I never could find quality info on what  Economic Clustering is. Could you explain what its purpose is and what the means to reach this purpose are?

1. More democratic means that a delegate represents as many shareholders as possible (at least 51% would be great). More info is here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940298.msg10388364#msg10388364 - I didn't continue the discussion on BTT because it wasn't the topic of that thread.
2. Mean if communication is the blockchain as a channel for data sharing.
3. Fake blockchain is a blockchain where voted-out delegates excluded transactions that pushed them out of top 101. Online nodes will reject such the blockchain but catching up ones may jump on it eventually. Temporary network fragmentation may lead to inability to bound at least 51 delegates to the same branch. Also, it's possible to cause the fragmentation by controlling 33 delegates and having fast connections to honest delegates. Economic Clustering is explained here - https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/economic-clustering/.

21
General Discussion / Potentially weak spots
« on: February 28, 2015, 10:03:40 pm »
There was my thread about hypothetical attacks on BitShares somewhere. Those attacks were technical ones, targeting implementation of BitShares. In this thread I'd like to list potentially weak spots in BitShares concept. I don't provide very detailed descriptions, it all was already discussed on BitcoinTalk. If short description is not enough - ask me and I'll explain the details.

The goal of this thread is to write down the info somewhere, to get peer review, to be pointed where I'm wrong and maybe to help to improve BitShares.

1. Delegate election is not very "democratic". The top delegate - market.cn.group101 - got only 16.71% according to https://bitsharesblocks.com/delegates. The issue can be completely or partially solved with another voting approach.
2. Delegates control the only mean of communication available to bots and smart contracts. The same problem as in a state that controls all mass media arises. Humans can use other means of communication (e.g. this forum) but DACs don't have this option. The issue can be solved by introducing something leading to "separation of powers".
3. Delegates validate blocks one by one. Several branches of the blockchain may exist and compete against each other. Voted-out delegates may generate a fake blockchain to trick newly connected nodes. Something similar to Economic Clustering (Nxt) could solve this issue completely. Validation of every block by 51 delegates may solve the issue of competing branches.

These are 3 main points. There are some more but I need more time to analyze them and make sure that BitShares indeed work as I understand it.

22
General Discussion / Re: Can't get BitShares DAC whitepaper
« on: February 26, 2015, 02:14:20 pm »
Does this page help?

http://pts.cubeconnex.com/wiki/index.php?title=BitShares_X_:_Decentralized_Bank_and_Exchange

Not much, it's too small to find out if I could use BitShares' solution or it's better to create my own one.

23
General Discussion / Re: Can't get BitShares DAC whitepaper
« on: February 26, 2015, 11:05:13 am »
sry dont get you! You mean bitshares toolkit, right ?
If so yes - https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares

I thought DACs are impossible without Smart Contracts. Do BitShares have Smart Contracts already?

24
General Discussion / Re: Can't get BitShares DAC whitepaper
« on: February 26, 2015, 09:00:17 am »
As you are going through the codes, could you help to document it? It would benefit the community.

Is the code for DAC written already?

25
General Discussion / Re: Can't get BitShares DAC whitepaper
« on: February 25, 2015, 09:39:24 pm »
Dan did a really good interview on bitshares.tv about DAC's..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abA4TuPHmNg

Thank you. Unfortunatelly, I learned English from programming languages documentation. I don't comprehend spoken English in 99% cases. :)

26
General Discussion / Re: Can't get BitShares DAC whitepaper
« on: February 25, 2015, 12:31:48 pm »
So there is no a publicly available whitepaper yet? Ok, I'll wait.

27
General Discussion / Can't get BitShares DAC whitepaper
« on: February 24, 2015, 10:01:39 pm »
I tried to open the link to BitShares DAC whitepaper (from http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Main_Page) but even after logging into my Google account I wasn't able to get the access...

28
DAC PLAY / Re: Decentralized Poker Research
« on: February 20, 2015, 08:40:30 pm »
This has been a dream of mine since last year :)

Dice poker is already possible on any platform that supports smart contracts.

Card poker is possible for more than 2 players if it's OK to reveal picked cards without revealing who exactly picked them. Smart contracts is the must.

So, your dream is almost here...

29
General Discussion / Re: An attack on DevShares
« on: February 11, 2015, 01:02:31 pm »
Assuming sybil attack is possible, is an eclipse attack feasible?

Yes. Most of "DDoS service" packets include "100% efficiency or money back" condition. So seed nodes won't help much.

30
General Discussion / Re: An attack on DevShares
« on: February 11, 2015, 12:07:09 pm »
@paging BM. 

What are the features they are developing?  DPOS? inbuilt wallet exchange? bitassets?  Why not collaborate with BitShares and not re-invent the wheel?

All the features can't be fit into a single system. At one point the devs will become the bottleneck.

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