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Quote from: fuzzy on November 03, 2014, 02:15:10 amQuote from: amencon on November 03, 2014, 12:55:57 am I understand why BM might feel like he needs to focus his energies, but I see no reason why our community must do the same. I personally plan to continue to support (whether financially or other) multiple future tech initiatives. Exactly how I feel.We are going to have a bigger bitshares ecosystem. I am all the more excited and see a bright future for the bitshares world.
Quote from: amencon on November 03, 2014, 12:55:57 am I understand why BM might feel like he needs to focus his energies, but I see no reason why our community must do the same. I personally plan to continue to support (whether financially or other) multiple future tech initiatives. Exactly how I feel.
I understand why BM might feel like he needs to focus his energies, but I see no reason why our community must do the same. I personally plan to continue to support (whether financially or other) multiple future tech initiatives.
Quote from: amencon on November 02, 2014, 12:41:03 amI support this initiative. The worst that happens is that this spinoff of DNS DAC is out-competed by BTS. If some innovation is created with this new DNS DAC and BTS copies it, then all the better. I'd imagine many people will be invested in both anyway.Put me on whatever list or mailings you plan if this does move forward.Thanks.As I see it, the value proposition can go MUCH farther. Imagine, for instance, that a talented group of developers decide to fork DNS to make a new chain with different innovations (or to make it more friendly to a certain jurisdiction). Those Devs essentially snapshot current ownership in the forked chain with a large %, can give themselves a small stake or allot a small % for a crowd sale to gain funding to test their metal against other chains' devs. Those who are successful have NOW MADE A NAME for themselves to the degree where if BTS doesn't pick them up, another SuperDAC will. If not, the task of simply building on the DNS fork (or even PTS, VOTE...etc for that matter) will likely have made them capable of building their own SuperDAC to rival others. Think bigger guys and girls! This is a potential Multi-Trillion Dollar Industry! Imagine being sharedropped on 10 different DNS forks, holding them all for 10 years and 2-3 of them ending up reaching valuations of 1+ Billion Dollars, just to be bought out by a SuperDAC (or maybe even more than 1). Then you have made off QUITE nicely. If this game is played right and developers know that supporting the community with significant sharedrops is a viable means by which they can earn attention and work to attain legitimacy in the industry...we have essentially made a very positive feedback loop that also protects us with the power of a diversified marketplace while protecting from corruption and also potentially making original holders very wealthy.... People see this as bad but I think that is just fear and impatience talking. I see this as potentially one of the best things I could ever imagine. Sure, it MIGHT take a very small portion of the BTS valuation (initially) but it will spread the word that the bitshares ecosystem is evolving and not just settling into one static, microsoft-like existence. Think of it as cheap advertising...When this market can support literally hundreds of forked chains with their own special attributes (like altcoins have), we will know we have made it to where we all want this to go...the moon. Let's consider these forks as Wormholes that force us to ask "which moon? There are sooooo many!"
I support this initiative. The worst that happens is that this spinoff of DNS DAC is out-competed by BTS. If some innovation is created with this new DNS DAC and BTS copies it, then all the better. I'd imagine many people will be invested in both anyway.Put me on whatever list or mailings you plan if this does move forward.Thanks.
Do we focus on BTS or NOT? Common guys !!!Let's contribute all on bitshares, because if we divide to a couple of projects I am afraid we will get the biggest joke in crypto-world after the "merge"!
Its a free country, if they want to make one they can. Good luck The thread is quite interesting - you can easily pick out who have invested more in BTS or DNS. Except a handful few, most of the posts can be simplified to personal greediness (including the OP).
Quote from: fuzzy on November 02, 2014, 05:15:15 amQuote from: amencon on November 02, 2014, 12:41:03 amI support this initiative. The worst that happens is that this spinoff of DNS DAC is out-competed by BTS. If some innovation is created with this new DNS DAC and BTS copies it, then all the better. I'd imagine many people will be invested in both anyway.Put me on whatever list or mailings you plan if this does move forward.Thanks.As I see it, the value proposition can go MUCH farther. Imagine, for instance, that a talented group of developers decide to fork DNS to make a new chain with different innovations (or to make it more friendly to a certain jurisdiction). Those Devs essentially snapshot current ownership in the forked chain with a large %, can give themselves a small stake or allot a small % for a crowd sale to gain funding to test their metal against other chains' devs. Those who are successful have NOW MADE A NAME for themselves to the degree where if BTS doesn't pick them up, another SuperDAC will. If not, the task of simply building on the DNS fork (or even PTS, VOTE...etc for that matter) will likely have made them capable of building their own SuperDAC to rival others. Think bigger guys and girls! This is a potential Multi-Trillion Dollar Industry! Imagine being sharedropped on 10 different DNS forks, holding them all for 10 years and 2-3 of them ending up reaching valuations of 1+ Billion Dollars, just to be bought out by a SuperDAC (or maybe even more than 1). Then you have made off QUITE nicely. If this game is played right and developers know that supporting the community with significant sharedrops is a viable means by which they can earn attention and work to attain legitimacy in the industry...we have essentially made a very positive feedback loop that also protects us with the power of a diversified marketplace while protecting from corruption and also potentially making original holders very wealthy.... People see this as bad but I think that is just fear and impatience talking. I see this as potentially one of the best things I could ever imagine. Sure, it MIGHT take a very small portion of the BTS valuation (initially) but it will spread the word that the bitshares ecosystem is evolving and not just settling into one static, microsoft-like existence. Think of it as cheap advertising...When this market can support literally hundreds of forked chains with their own special attributes (like altcoins have), we will know we have made it to where we all want this to go...the moon. Let's consider these forks as Wormholes that force us to ask "which moon? There are sooooo many!"I like that. The bigger the bitshare ecosystem, the more people will notice us.
If one really takes the time to grok the OP, and understand it's intent, then all subsequent post would look very different.It's the English to English translation which concerns me more than anything.Let's examine this proposal on it's merits, not on all subsequent assumptions being made. In general I find this community to be a very enlightened bunch, but there are some rather alarmist sentiments (assumptions) being expressed here in this thread.If there are issues which need to be addressed, let's do that. Not let the whole thread become a wash of rumor and conjecture.I'm bits, and at the moment I'm here to help articulate team bitcoinerS position on the matter. I'm personally dedicated to BTS, and focused on grassroots marketing for BTS, but here I will be able to act in a support capacity for team bitcoinerS and attempt to clear up any misunderstandings.If the proposal 'as it actually exists' is not desirable, or impossible to articulate, then so be it, it will be modified or laid to rest.I will now attempt to address your concerns one by one, and then let's see where we are at.Thanks for your calm consideration. More to follow.
Quote from: CoinHoarder on November 01, 2014, 05:43:41 pm1. If the DNS DAC is withdrawing from the merger, they should not be share dropped in the BTS merger.2. Stop changing things on a whim.3. This is another thing I HATE about the merger.. it is an incredibly bad practice to release a cryptocurrency, snapshot it, then move to a new chain and deem the old tokens as being extinct. There are many dynamics of why this is bad and I don't care to spend hours explaining it as I feel like it should be common sense.4. As mentioned previously, there is nothing stopping other DACs from implementing your features. This is another reason for the merger. Other DACs were going to copy BTSX's bitasset feature, there is nothing stopping BTS from doing the same.5. I thought Toast was doing the DNS DAC, what is Bitcoiners/Toast's relation to the project? This just adds another layer of confusion..6. Bitshares is starting to look more like a circus than a company. I am not here for entertainment. I am not surprised people are selling BTSX, I am very close to doing so myself. Please don't push me over that line that I am hovering around.1. There is no withdrawl. This is proposal for an independent, allied DAC.2. ...3. It's messy, there's no question, you're right. What's the best solution? I'm confident there are elegant solutions and we will find them, that's what we do.4. It's a multi-directional street. We are talking about separate but friendly development teams advancing along mutually beneficial lines and each strengthening the other's hand.5. I don't wish to speak for Toast, but my understanding is that he will continue working on those features within BTS. The idea is to have Toast on the BTS team and bitcoinerS keeping a separate but allied DNS DAC alive along mutually beneficial lines of development.6. This proposal in no way threatens the BTS merger, or the amazing potential of BTS development. I understand your frustrations, but characterizing this community as a circus will not help the situation.
1. If the DNS DAC is withdrawing from the merger, they should not be share dropped in the BTS merger.2. Stop changing things on a whim.3. This is another thing I HATE about the merger.. it is an incredibly bad practice to release a cryptocurrency, snapshot it, then move to a new chain and deem the old tokens as being extinct. There are many dynamics of why this is bad and I don't care to spend hours explaining it as I feel like it should be common sense.4. As mentioned previously, there is nothing stopping other DACs from implementing your features. This is another reason for the merger. Other DACs were going to copy BTSX's bitasset feature, there is nothing stopping BTS from doing the same.5. I thought Toast was doing the DNS DAC, what is Bitcoiners/Toast's relation to the project? This just adds another layer of confusion..6. Bitshares is starting to look more like a circus than a company. I am not here for entertainment. I am not surprised people are selling BTSX, I am very close to doing so myself. Please don't push me over that line that I am hovering around.
Quote from: Rune on November 01, 2014, 06:01:02 pmThis is not the official DNS team at all! this is completely unrelated to the bitshares team! If people are getting nervous from this thread having been posted, it should be deleted. Chinese people might understand only parts of it and think that DNS is getting restarted and the plans have changed again。This might be a third party DAC, but they are proposing using the current DNS as proto shares.So this will have implications for DNS and BTSX. So effectively it's no different from DNS restarting.
This is not the official DNS team at all! this is completely unrelated to the bitshares team! If people are getting nervous from this thread having been posted, it should be deleted. Chinese people might understand only parts of it and think that DNS is getting restarted and the plans have changed again。
Quote from: bitcoinerS on November 01, 2014, 04:27:04 pmWe foresee BitShares DNS DAC accepting some BitAssets from the main BitShares DAC, such as BitUSD as payment for offered services, adding liquidity to the main BitShares DAC.This is apparently not possible, and was one of the biggest reasons for the merger.Quote from: Graffenwalder on November 01, 2014, 05:06:21 pm this is getting silly now. I prefer the word ridiculous, but 1. If the DNS DAC is withdrawing from the merger, they should not be share dropped in the BTS merger.2. Stop changing things on a whim.3. This is another thing I HATE about the merger.. it is an incredibly bad practice to release a cryptocurrency, snapshot it, then move to a new chain and deem the old tokens as being extinct. There are many dynamics of why this is bad and I don't care to spend hours explaining it as I feel like it should be common sense.4. As mentioned previously, there is nothing stopping other DACs from implementing your features. This is another reason for the merger. Other DACs were going to copy BTSX's bitasset feature, there is nothing stopping BTS from doing the same.5. I thought Toast was doing the DNS DAC, what is Bitcoiners/Toast's relation to the project? This just adds another layer of confusion..6. Bitshares is starting to look more like a circus than a company. I am not here for entertainment. I am not surprised people are selling BTSX, I am very close to doing so myself. Please don't push me over that line that I am hovering around.
We foresee BitShares DNS DAC accepting some BitAssets from the main BitShares DAC, such as BitUSD as payment for offered services, adding liquidity to the main BitShares DAC.
this is getting silly now.
Well the idea has merits, but it may not be the right time to do it. Call it KeyID or call it DNS as a third party DAC but please don't associated with the original Bitshares DNS. Right now Is is already confusing as is it and will hurt your DAC and it will hurt Bitshare too. Actually third parties DAC forked from Bithsare toolkit is what we want because this was the original vision of I3, so KeyID and PTS DPOS are welcomed, but probably this is the worst moment because it will only add more to the panic and confusion. Please keep working on this and when the time comes we all be all ready to welcome you KeyID. So keep on doing the good job bitcoinerS, you got toast support this is great.
Big time, energy, resource suck if you ask me. Have fun. Hope you don't hurt too many people in the process...but I suspect you will anyway.
Quote from: Graffenwalder on November 01, 2014, 04:50:48 pmReally? This is just what we need right now. DNS getting a pump, and BTSX losing some more value.I still support the Bitshares community, but Al these sudden announcements/proposals could be interpreted as some cheeky money scams.Buy up DNS at all time low, then announce/propose to continue.Yeah its almost as if new proposals are made deliberately to spread confusion.
Really? This is just what we need right now. DNS getting a pump, and BTSX losing some more value.I still support the Bitshares community, but Al these sudden announcements/proposals could be interpreted as some cheeky money scams.Buy up DNS at all time low, then announce/propose to continue.
We recognize that our community has been through quite a whirlwind as of late, and we are mindful of not causing additional concerns. To that end we will make every effort to present a clear picture of what we hope to achieve and why.
:s I don't understand. DNS holders have just been airdropped BTS to include them and some of the 3i team spent their own funds compensating DNS holders who got a raw deal. Now you're going back on it? So DNS will have its own competing shares and delegates? Will you snapshot BTS? Have an IPO? This is insane. The market is in turmoil and people just keep changing things.
So who is it exactly who is now 100% focused on BTS? Sorry but I don't know who you are bitcoinerS.
0It's a relief to see you will use bitassets from BTS at least. I don't know how that will work, won't holders of DNS want you to use their own in house bitassets to increase DNS value
I follow everything that is said on this forum and I still have no idea what is going on. What does "a different regulation and oversight profile" mean?
This is what happens when there are no contracts, developers just do whatever they want and don't finish things.If DNS can just splinter off, what's stopping VOTE doing the same thing? I thought these were things BM had agreed with you.
Hmmm....so will this in effect be competing with the SuperDAC's implementation of DNS? Sounds confusing to me...
BitShares DNS DAC will aim to reach a complementary development path with BitShares, each working on features beneficial to the other, but focusing on different applications and user groups within this large field.
I support this if it can be executed smoothly.What do you want to do with dev fund? Are there any other developers working with you?
this summer
Good luck guys So PTS & AGS are kind of carrying on separately, DNS is carrying on separately. Vote was never really started... 30 day rewind anyone? Edit: I really like one simple focused BitShares, but yeah big month
Quote from: Empirical1.1 on November 01, 2014, 05:04:10 pm Good luck guys So PTS & AGS are kind of carrying on separately, DNS is carrying on separately. Vote was never really started... 30 day rewind anyone? this is getting silly now.
Good luck guys So PTS & AGS are kind of carrying on separately, DNS is carrying on separately. Vote was never really started... 30 day rewind anyone?
Quote from: Rune on November 01, 2014, 04:29:36 pmThe harsh reality is, if you're open source (which is a requirement to most), then BTS shareholders will vote to copy every single feature you implement that works at creating value for your DAC in some way.People always say this, but I suspect it's far less true than you'd expect. The reality is that people get emotionally attached to their pet ideas and this makes them very resistant to copying effective approaches from different communities. Take Nxt's stance on bitAssets, which can mostly be summarized by "scam ponzi scam the Larimers hate babies!" Nxt's entrenched ideas about how crypto should work kept them from recognizing the power of the bitAsset, so they're missing their chance to implement something similar.Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2
The harsh reality is, if you're open source (which is a requirement to most), then BTS shareholders will vote to copy every single feature you implement that works at creating value for your DAC in some way.