0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
There is no 10% penalty for expired shorts since last hard fork on tuesday AFAIK
Quote from: Troglodactyl on May 03, 2015, 02:36:43 pmYes. I don't have a problem with it for margin calls, but enabling it for expirations is pretty bad. Why should it even happen for margin calls? The whole point of putting down a certain amount of collateral is to keep you covered up to a certain market price. Once that point is reach you just unwind. The participant has already lost pretty bad at that point so I can't see any trading strategy that depends on that setup.
Yes. I don't have a problem with it for margin calls, but enabling it for expirations is pretty bad.
10% above buyback rule is arbitrary and distorts the market, good thing it was identified for the next BTA iteration
"If you want to make money off of insider trading, then do something useful like the Moonstone guys instead of crying about your gambling losses."- bitWarren Buffett.
Moonstone team is bulding the BitShares equivalent of Ethereum's Mist
Quote from: graffenwalder on April 29, 2015, 10:39:40 amReality check answer: I think you're being overly protective of BTS. And it comes across as though everybody who has doubts/critique about BTS is attacked. This is not only you, it's the culture of this forum. It has been this way since the beginning, far before there was even a mention of a merger.This is a helpful reality check for me. Thank you.
Reality check answer: I think you're being overly protective of BTS. And it comes across as though everybody who has doubts/critique about BTS is attacked. This is not only you, it's the culture of this forum. It has been this way since the beginning, far before there was even a mention of a merger.
Why isn't it possible to back a bitAsset like bitGold with bitUSD?
Quote from: bitmarley on April 28, 2015, 09:07:31 pmAnother reason is that normally in finance someone who wants to go short GOLD means they want to profit when GOLD falls versus the USD. But in BitShares shorting the bitGOLD(i.e. GOLD/BTS) and does not give the same kind of exposure. It would be good if there was a way to establish an asset whose "Last Price" was a formula instead of a direct price feed. For example: bitGOLDUSD = GOLD/USD. This is the asset that the wider market really wants. At the moment shorting bitAssets means you increase your long exposure to BTS. So if the market trend for BTS is down nobody wants to short. Soon you will be able to have BitGOLD backed by BitUSD.
Another reason is that normally in finance someone who wants to go short GOLD means they want to profit when GOLD falls versus the USD. But in BitShares shorting the bitGOLD(i.e. GOLD/BTS) and does not give the same kind of exposure. It would be good if there was a way to establish an asset whose "Last Price" was a formula instead of a direct price feed. For example: bitGOLDUSD = GOLD/USD. This is the asset that the wider market really wants. At the moment shorting bitAssets means you increase your long exposure to BTS. So if the market trend for BTS is down nobody wants to short.
Quote from: mf-tzo on April 29, 2015, 07:38:40 pmQuote from: bytemaster on April 28, 2015, 09:18:57 pmQuote from: bitmarley on April 28, 2015, 09:07:31 pmAnother reason is that normally in finance someone who wants to go short GOLD means they want to profit when GOLD falls versus the USD. But in BitShares shorting the bitGOLD(i.e. GOLD/BTS) and does not give the same kind of exposure. It would be good if there was a way to establish an asset whose "Last Price" was a formula instead of a direct price feed. For example: bitGOLDUSD = GOLD/USD. This is the asset that the wider market really wants. At the moment shorting bitAssets means you increase your long exposure to BTS. So if the market trend for BTS is down nobody wants to short. Soon you will be able to have BitGOLD backed by BitUSD.I hope that you don't imply that one could create bitGold by shorting BitUSD but rather trade BitGold vs.BitUSD right?Means trade bitUSD to bitGold. BTS is the collateral for the whole system, you cannot create assets without it.
Quote from: bytemaster on April 28, 2015, 09:18:57 pmQuote from: bitmarley on April 28, 2015, 09:07:31 pmAnother reason is that normally in finance someone who wants to go short GOLD means they want to profit when GOLD falls versus the USD. But in BitShares shorting the bitGOLD(i.e. GOLD/BTS) and does not give the same kind of exposure. It would be good if there was a way to establish an asset whose "Last Price" was a formula instead of a direct price feed. For example: bitGOLDUSD = GOLD/USD. This is the asset that the wider market really wants. At the moment shorting bitAssets means you increase your long exposure to BTS. So if the market trend for BTS is down nobody wants to short. Soon you will be able to have BitGOLD backed by BitUSD.I hope that you don't imply that one could create bitGold by shorting BitUSD but rather trade BitGold vs.BitUSD right?
Afaik he is talking about shorting GOLD with USD as collateral ..Is this bad for you?
I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too
Thats what happened in BTS. People who have never been on margin before shorted bitUSD because they were bulish on BTS. But instead BTS went down a lot, and they lost a huge amount of BTS. So they think "this is bullshit", and they get mad, and they sell all their remaining BTS.
Quote from: yellowecho on April 29, 2015, 03:49:55 pmI shorted bitUSD ~20 days ago and now I'm losing my ass. That's probably why no one is shorting.. hell, I might as well just double down my shorts now and give all my BTS away for free at this point.Ditto... I'm screwed
I shorted bitUSD ~20 days ago and now I'm losing my ass. That's probably why no one is shorting.. hell, I might as well just double down my shorts now and give all my BTS away for free at this point.
basically the yield today comes from the interest that has to be payed by SHORTs
Since this thread was wondering about bitUSD shorts and morphed into a *I wish I knew* thread.. Guess it's a great place for me to pose the question:What exactly does that Yield figure mean? Does this mean if I amholding bitUSD in my account right now I am getting a 5.82% annual interestrate on it? Or is that a 30 day?
Can anyone explain to me how the Yield comes about.. because look further downthe list at these assets that are making a Yield at a market cap as little at$7.. Heck TRY is running on empty from what I can tell.. yet a huge Yield?
BitUSD seems to be doing AMAZING... why? How?
I have been asked in recent days a few times about where that number comes from to which I only can say 'from bitsharesblocks' Really like to offer a smarter answer in the future.. so I defer to all of you on this topic.[/size]
Quote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 10:03:23 amQuote from: fuzzy on April 29, 2015, 09:54:51 amQuote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 09:44:02 amQuote from: xeroc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ on April 29, 2015, 06:49:52 amQuote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 12:56:01 am I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because... the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too In the meantime I will stick with things I know best coding some python and doing support for free I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... So here is the perfect place to give an example of what you SHOULD say here Tony (if you want people to respect and listen to you). "I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... "could be: "I wish I could get someone to understand that people like me who are shorting bitAssets into existence are also getting put in a place that puts too much risk to incentivize my doing so..."You see how this takes Xeroc out of it and focuses on the issue? Xeroc is yet another person who busts his butt (and doesn't need to). I get it fuzz...no Gut at Englesias, no place at Bitch-shares... I will try working on it for your satisfaction! I promise... I understand it will never be gut enough for your and or beyond (pun punt and whatever surely intended) but hey...someday your son might have to learn another language and I do hope he sees the same hostility!Cheers!It has nothing to do with language. You intentionally inserted Xeroc in there as though he was somehow part of the problem. I don't know if I have the patience to try to explain it any further because for some reason you are giving me hostility over "hostility" that I do not think I have shown you.
Quote from: fuzzy on April 29, 2015, 09:54:51 amQuote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 09:44:02 amQuote from: xeroc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ on April 29, 2015, 06:49:52 amQuote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 12:56:01 am I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because... the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too In the meantime I will stick with things I know best coding some python and doing support for free I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... So here is the perfect place to give an example of what you SHOULD say here Tony (if you want people to respect and listen to you). "I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... "could be: "I wish I could get someone to understand that people like me who are shorting bitAssets into existence are also getting put in a place that puts too much risk to incentivize my doing so..."You see how this takes Xeroc out of it and focuses on the issue? Xeroc is yet another person who busts his butt (and doesn't need to). I get it fuzz...no Gut at Englesias, no place at Bitch-shares... I will try working on it for your satisfaction! I promise... I understand it will never be gut enough for your and or beyond (pun punt and whatever surely intended) but hey...someday your son might have to learn another language and I do hope he sees the same hostility!Cheers!
Quote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 09:44:02 amQuote from: xeroc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ on April 29, 2015, 06:49:52 amQuote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 12:56:01 am I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because... the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too In the meantime I will stick with things I know best coding some python and doing support for free I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... So here is the perfect place to give an example of what you SHOULD say here Tony (if you want people to respect and listen to you). "I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... "could be: "I wish I could get someone to understand that people like me who are shorting bitAssets into existence are also getting put in a place that puts too much risk to incentivize my doing so..."You see how this takes Xeroc out of it and focuses on the issue? Xeroc is yet another person who busts his butt (and doesn't need to).
Quote from: xeroc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ on April 29, 2015, 06:49:52 amQuote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 12:56:01 am I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because... the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too In the meantime I will stick with things I know best coding some python and doing support for free I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money...
Quote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 12:56:01 am I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because... the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too In the meantime I will stick with things I know best coding some python and doing support for free
I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because... the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...
hehe I thought I was a coder too...back in 1986 and again in 2007...Proof to the contrary is available upon request! And I spell humor.... humour which is another good explanation, isn't it
Quote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 10:03:23 amQuote from: fuzzy on April 29, 2015, 09:54:51 amQuote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 09:44:02 amQuote from: xeroc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ on April 29, 2015, 06:49:52 amQuote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 12:56:01 am I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because... the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too In the meantime I will stick with things I know best coding some python and doing support for free I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... So here is the perfect place to give an example of what you SHOULD say here Tony (if you want people to respect and listen to you). "I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... "could be: "I wish I could get someone to understand that people like me who are shorting bitAssets into existence are also getting put in a place that puts too much risk to incentivize my doing so..."oYou see how this takes Xeroc out of it and focuses on the issue? Xeroc is yet another person who busts his butt (and doesn't need to). I get it fuzz...no Gut at Englesias, no place at Bitch-shares... I will try working on it for your satisfaction! I promise... I understand it will never be gut enough for your and or beyond (pun punt and whatever surely intended) but hey...someday your son might have to learn another language and I do hope he sees the same hostility!Cheers!It has nothing to do with language. You intentionally inserted Xeroc in there as though he was somehow part of the problem. I don't know if I have the patience to try to explain it any further because for some reason you are giving me hostility over "hostility" that I do not think I have shown you. Can anyone here be a reality check for me and/or Tony? Am I seeming hostile? Oh...and P.S. Tony, don't bring my son into anything you say please. He is off limits in any discussion unless we are talking about cute babies. But since you mentioned it, I have asked my wife to teach him of his culture and sincerely hope he learns the language from her because I am ashamed that in America we have largely been raised to really know only one language. I have taught myself a little french along the way but it is a sore excuse compared to your command of the English language.
Quote from: fuzzy on April 29, 2015, 09:54:51 amQuote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 09:44:02 amQuote from: xeroc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ on April 29, 2015, 06:49:52 amQuote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 12:56:01 am I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because... the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too In the meantime I will stick with things I know best coding some python and doing support for free I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... So here is the perfect place to give an example of what you SHOULD say here Tony (if you want people to respect and listen to you). "I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... "could be: "I wish I could get someone to understand that people like me who are shorting bitAssets into existence are also getting put in a place that puts too much risk to incentivize my doing so..."oYou see how this takes Xeroc out of it and focuses on the issue? Xeroc is yet another person who busts his butt (and doesn't need to). I get it fuzz...no Gut at Englesias, no place at Bitch-shares... I will try working on it for your satisfaction! I promise... I understand it will never be gut enough for your and or beyond (pun punt and whatever surely intended) but hey...someday your son might have to learn another language and I do hope he sees the same hostility!Cheers!
Quote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 09:44:02 amQuote from: xeroc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ on April 29, 2015, 06:49:52 amQuote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 12:56:01 am I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because... the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too In the meantime I will stick with things I know best coding some python and doing support for free I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... So here is the perfect place to give an example of what you SHOULD say here Tony (if you want people to respect and listen to you). "I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... "could be: "I wish I could get someone to understand that people like me who are shorting bitAssets into existence are also getting put in a place that puts too much risk to incentivize my doing so..."oYou see how this takes Xeroc out of it and focuses on the issue? Xeroc is yet another person who busts his butt (and doesn't need to).
Quote from: tonyk2 on April 29, 2015, 09:44:02 amI wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... I thought you were a coder? That would at least go some way to explaining your incredibly dry sense of humour!
I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money...
Quote from: skyscraperfarms on April 28, 2015, 11:22:47 pmBecause the market rules suck for shorts. I lost near 25% of my BTS because of it.Unless you lost specifically because of the bug, I dont think you lost due to the market rules.The reason people lost BTS is because:* Short bitUSD means being MARGIN LONG BTS.* If you are MARGIN LONG anything, and that thing just goes down and down and down, you lose a huge chunk of it eventually when you get margin called. Depending on your leverage, and how much it goes down, and the margin call, its quite possible to lose absolutely everything.Many people here just do not have experience with margin. If you just buy and hold something (like buy and hold BTS), it is okay to just never sell and hold no matter how much it goes down.But if you are on margin you CANNOT do that. You must have a stop loss and sell to cut your losses at soem point, or you will get margin called any lose it all.Thats what happened in BTS. People who have never been on margin before shorted bitUSD because they were bulish on BTS. But instead BTS went down a lot, and they lost a huge amount of BTS. So they think "this is bullshit", and they get mad, and they sell all their remaining BTS.The problem is that shorting bitUSD was something that was really for professional traders to do, not for average BTS holders. And yet a bunch of us normal BTS holders shorted bitUSD and got burned by margin. (I didnt. I got burned by margin in other things years back and will never use it again, so I have never shorted bitUSD). Anyways, I think that there are a lot of people out there who lost because of their margin position going against them, and are now blaming BTS. Its not BTS' fault that thats how margin works. If you bet on margin on are wrong, you have to lose your BTS, because your BTS is going to the people who own bitUSD, because that bitUSD is worth more BTS now. Thats how it works.
Because the market rules suck for shorts. I lost near 25% of my BTS because of it.
Quote from: mf-tzo on April 28, 2015, 08:00:04 pmI am curious as to why nobody is shorting bitusd etc at these price and with all the discussions about bitassets 1,2,3 I am afraid I may have misunderstood something...So please if I am missing something here please someone let me know before I lose all my BTS from shorting...Is it:People don't short because they believe BTS will further fall? orPeople don't short because once bitasset 3 and bond market gets implemented everyone who shorts bitusd v1 will lose all his BTS?ThanksBecause the market rules suck for shorts. I lost near 25% of my BTS because of it.
I am curious as to why nobody is shorting bitusd etc at these price and with all the discussions about bitassets 1,2,3 I am afraid I may have misunderstood something...So please if I am missing something here please someone let me know before I lose all my BTS from shorting...Is it:People don't short because they believe BTS will further fall? orPeople don't short because once bitasset 3 and bond market gets implemented everyone who shorts bitusd v1 will lose all his BTS?Thanks
Quote from: bytemaster on April 28, 2015, 09:18:57 pmSoon you will be able to have BitGOLD backed by BitUSD.there's a nugget of gold hidden in this thread!
Soon you will be able to have BitGOLD backed by BitUSD.